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Irrelevant [Iron Fist]

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Episode 3
    Finn Jones is not good at martial arts.

    a.k.a. Antaeus or Nubmonger

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    also i love in ep 8
    the oblique ref to jessica jones

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  • AtomikaAtomika Torchlight Resistance HQ Propaganda DivisionRegistered User regular
    Just watched Episode 1.

    Very slow, and it seems like there was a separate person in charge of writing and directing the "Ward" character, and that person has a brain injury.

    Seriously, it's like the guy is just the pre-viz model for the actual actor they'll CGI in later with ADL. He's awful

  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    Just watched Episode 1.

    Very slow, and it seems like there was a separate person in charge of writing and directing the "Ward" character, and that person has a brain injury.

    Seriously, it's like the guy is just the pre-viz model for the actual actor they'll CGI in later with ADL. He's awful

    I'm really curious to hear your thoughts about the Ward character (and the actor's performance) after finishing the series.

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    why did people hate on this show so much?

    4 episodes in and I am having a ball.

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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Phant wrote: »
    Long story short, I don't think this show is as bad as the reviews said. It's telling a different kind of story than the other Marvel Netflix shows, but that's okay. It would be boring if they were all the same. Instead of a Mighty Whitey, this show asks the question, "what did the white man give up to become that good at asian martial arts? Turns out: pretty much everything." I cannot wait to see Luke Cage dismantle Danny in The Defenders when he catches him listening to Wu-Tang Clan. It's going to be solid gold.

    Gotta quibble a bit here, but white guys can't like the Wu-Tang Clan? I get a lot of the cultural appropriation around hiphop, but I think saying us white folks can't even like it is a bit much.
    Side note: I loved Methodman's cameo in Luke Cage.

    Not saying that at all. I'm a white guy and I like a bunch of Wu-Tang. But you can like something and not get it at a basic level. 10-year-old Danny Rand is a home-schooled child of billionares: what does this kid know of street violence, economic misfortune, or racial disparity? Nothing. He's interested in it, but he has a long way to go; Luke will play a very important role in teaching him what it means to be an ally.

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  • HenroidHenroid My keyboard is old. The desert!Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    Just watched Episode 1.

    Very slow, and it seems like there was a separate person in charge of writing and directing the "Ward" character, and that person has a brain injury.

    Seriously, it's like the guy is just the pre-viz model for the actual actor they'll CGI in later with ADL. He's awful
    The show comes around really fast in episode 2. Episode 1 can literally just be skipped as far as I'm concerned. Worst opening episode to a series ever.

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Episode 3
    Finn Jones is not good at martial arts.

    I don't really get this
    Why not? He does lots of cool shit and kicks some serious ass.

    I'm on the last episode now and have been enjoying it. It has weak points but overall strikes me as better than DD Season 2 and Luke Cage.

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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Doesn't look like anything to me Registered User regular
    Phant wrote: »
    Long story short, I don't think this show is as bad as the reviews said. It's telling a different kind of story than the other Marvel Netflix shows, but that's okay. It would be boring if they were all the same. Instead of a Mighty Whitey, this show asks the question, "what did the white man give up to become that good at asian martial arts? Turns out: pretty much everything." I cannot wait to see Luke Cage dismantle Danny in The Defenders when he catches him listening to Wu-Tang Clan. It's going to be solid gold.

    Gotta quibble a bit here, but white guys can't like the Wu-Tang Clan? I get a lot of the cultural appropriation around hiphop, but I think saying us white folks can't even like it is a bit much.
    Side note: I loved Methodman's cameo in Luke Cage.

    Not saying that at all. I'm a white guy and I like a bunch of Wu-Tang. But you can like something and not get it at a basic level. 10-year-old Danny Rand is a home-schooled child of billionares: what does this kid know of street violence, economic misfortune, or racial disparity? Nothing. He's interested in it, but he has a long way to go; Luke will play a very important role in teaching him what it means to be an ally.

    That sounds like an incredibly tedious development

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  • EvigilantEvigilant VARegistered User regular
    Just finished watching the entire series.
    What a boring and bland show. The intro title sequence is more engaging than the entirety of the season.

    I think my biggest problem with the show is there is no big payoff like DD season 1 or 2, or JJ, or Luke Cage.

    I will say that whomever wrote the arc for Madame Gao needs to be rewarded. She steals every scene she's in and I want to see more of where that goes. I feel more involved with her character arc than I did Rand's or Colleen's or the Meechums.

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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Phant wrote: »
    Long story short, I don't think this show is as bad as the reviews said. It's telling a different kind of story than the other Marvel Netflix shows, but that's okay. It would be boring if they were all the same. Instead of a Mighty Whitey, this show asks the question, "what did the white man give up to become that good at asian martial arts? Turns out: pretty much everything." I cannot wait to see Luke Cage dismantle Danny in The Defenders when he catches him listening to Wu-Tang Clan. It's going to be solid gold.

    Gotta quibble a bit here, but white guys can't like the Wu-Tang Clan? I get a lot of the cultural appropriation around hiphop, but I think saying us white folks can't even like it is a bit much.
    Side note: I loved Methodman's cameo in Luke Cage.

    Not saying that at all. I'm a white guy and I like a bunch of Wu-Tang. But you can like something and not get it at a basic level. 10-year-old Danny Rand is a home-schooled child of billionares: what does this kid know of street violence, economic misfortune, or racial disparity? Nothing. He's interested in it, but he has a long way to go; Luke will play a very important role in teaching him what it means to be an ally.

    That sounds like an incredibly tedious development

    Care to elaborate?

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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Phant wrote: »
    Long story short, I don't think this show is as bad as the reviews said. It's telling a different kind of story than the other Marvel Netflix shows, but that's okay. It would be boring if they were all the same. Instead of a Mighty Whitey, this show asks the question, "what did the white man give up to become that good at asian martial arts? Turns out: pretty much everything." I cannot wait to see Luke Cage dismantle Danny in The Defenders when he catches him listening to Wu-Tang Clan. It's going to be solid gold.

    Gotta quibble a bit here, but white guys can't like the Wu-Tang Clan? I get a lot of the cultural appropriation around hiphop, but I think saying us white folks can't even like it is a bit much.
    Side note: I loved Methodman's cameo in Luke Cage.

    Not saying that at all. I'm a white guy and I like a bunch of Wu-Tang. But you can like something and not get it at a basic level. 10-year-old Danny Rand is a home-schooled child of billionares: what does this kid know of street violence, economic misfortune, or racial disparity? Nothing. He's interested in it, but he has a long way to go; Luke will play a very important role in teaching him what it means to be an ally.

    That sounds like an incredibly tedious development

    Nah, have them bond over loving the music for different reasons with Luke going into the social ramifications of the music, and Danny just liking the music for his own reasons. Then turn it around with Danny going into the social and practical parts of Kung Fu and Luke just liking watching the movies.

    These are two people who like a lot of the same things, but for different reasons. It's not a reason for them to not be friends, it's a reason for them to sit down, talk, and share their perspectives.

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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Doesn't look like anything to me Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    Inserting "here's how to be an ally lessons" is going to be the tedious part. Especially if it is focussed around "you white personal who likes the Wu tangs...."

    Having them bond and be friends ESPECIALLY if it starts with "you know I met method man one time?" will be fun

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    @Warcry

    Warcry wrote: »
    If it had been suggested that Luke Cage be played by a white or Asian actor, there would have been rioting. Changing Danny's ethnicity is no better. Swamping television and movies with minority actors just for the sake of it accomplishes nothing. You do not bring about any from of social change by doing this. The actors gain nothing by doing this. If a production requires an Asian actor, they will write a role that requires an Asian actor.

    Because it is not the same context. Making Luke Cage a white man would erase a minority, and we don't ned to change his race since that is a defining aspect of Luke - Danny, not so much. Minorities actors getting more roles in entertainment is about equal opportunity for them to be allowed the same access to opportunities as white actors and that is progress since demographics being blocked from jobs because of their skin color is discrimination. That this occurs in 2017 is a disgrace. The actors gain plenty from doing this, it's not like white actors don't love that kind of work. Actually, no if an Asian actor is needed they don't get hired, if they get allowed to try for the part at all that isn't written as a racist stereotype. On the Marvel front the biggest opportunities for Asian leads and Asian casts were IF and Dr. Strange, and they both went to white actors. People naturally weren't ok with this. IF is no The Great Wall either, while Asian actors weren't the leads it did well in showing their perspective and they hired a Chinese director to direct it. IF gets - Scott Buck?
    The thing with having a minority or Asian Danny Rand is that the sting's of cultural appropriation which has been inherent in IF since the start as well as taking an interesting angle on the franchise we haven't had yet. Before IF the majority of the fans for the character were very small, he was very obscure and doing this with him would not have been as detrimental to gaining a wider fanbase than you think.

    Cultural appropriation is progress. If cultures didn't take from each, we'd still be a tribal society, instead of the globalist one we have now. Gunpowder is a Chinese invention. Should we stop using it because they invented it? No, because Europeans made firearms with it, and technology advanced. That is actual progress, not the illusion of it. Cultures adopting practices and technologies from one another is the lifeblood of civilization, and to say that we must all stick to our own traditions and methods only creates further division.[/quote]

    Stealing an invention isn't cultural appropriation, per se and they weren't exactly doing the exact same thing as China was doing either. This is what the term is defined as
    Cultural appropriation is the adoption or use of the elements of one culture by members of another culture.[1] Cultural appropriation may be perceived[2] as controversial or harmful, notably when the cultural property of a minority group is used by members of the dominant culture without the consent of the members of the originating culture. This is seen as misappropriation and a violation of intellectual property rights.[3][4][5][3][6][6][excessive citations] Often unavoidable when multiple cultures come together, cultural appropriation can include using other cultures' traditions, fashion, symbols, language, and cultural songs without permission.[7] According to critics of the practice, cultural (mis)appropriation differs from acculturation, assimilation, or cultural exchange in that the "appropriation" or "misappropriation" refers to the adoption of these cultural elements in a colonial manner: elements are copied from a minority culture by members of a dominant culture, and these elements are used outside of their original cultural context—sometimes even against the expressly stated wishes of representatives of the originating culture.[6][8][9][10][11][12][13]

    Often, the original meaning of these cultural elements is lost or distorted, and such displays are often viewed as disrespectful by members of the originating culture, or even as a form of desecration.[8] Cultural elements which may have deep meaning to the original culture may be reduced to "exotic" fashion by those from the dominant culture.[8][9][14] Kjerstin Johnson has written that, when this is done, the imitator, "who does not experience that oppression is able to 'play', temporarily, an 'exotic' other, without experiencing any of the daily discriminations faced by other cultures."[14]

    Conversely, cultural exchange, which some authors also choose to call "appropriation," is viewed as inevitable and contributing to diversity and free expression.[15] This view distinguishes outright theft of cultural artifacts or exotic stereotyping from more benign borrowing or appreciation. Cultural borrowing and cross-fertilization is seen by proponents as a generally positive thing, and as something which is usually done out of admiration of the cultures being imitated, with no intent to harm them.[16][17]

    There is no illusion about this debate, this is about respecting Asian peoples access to jobs, culture and life styles. In prior post I even said I was ok if they do this with a white Danny, too, but they don't do this respectfully (which I explain further down the post).

    This argument also would erase LC as being the lead in his show, too, to replace him with a white actor. It's not bad to get a show or movie from a minority's perspective. We don't have anywhere near enough, while we do have white leads everywhere.
    I'd like to know how it can be classified as progress. They aren't anything new. TV shows have been starring black men and white women for decades. The reason there hasn't been a black man in a starring role in a superhero TV show is because none of the comic studios had the kind of money to throw around that they do now, and the TV studios saw it as a massive risk, which it was. Both Luke Cage and Jessica Jones coasted in on the Marvel brand, and in the wake of Daredevil, which was extremely well-received. Had they been entirely new characters not owned by Marvel, I doubt either would have been the success they became.

    It's not new, but things aren't anywhere near on par between the races in entertainment. Yeah, black actors have gotten stronger roles but they still are fighting for better things (like being recognized as equals at the Oscars), and how badly a race is discriminated varies. Asians in particular have a much harder time in Hollywood, and it's a practice Marvel is continuing. And Marvel is one of the better studios on race. TV is also more progress in general, that's why they are able to make a show on an Asian Nikita yet they wouldn't be able to do that in film. That comic studios have money t throw around don't make this not a problem, look at the CW - not a minority lead among them. The best they got was a short animated web series. There is rumbling of a live action Black Lightning show but it shouldn't have taken this long to get a similar project going. That universe has existed for 6 years and the show hasn't materialized yet.

    While I agree the Marvel brand and Daredevil helped significantly, I don't think they owe everything to them. Those were shows that earned their credibility and audience. JJ didn't get a Peabody Award for nothing.
    Luke and Danny's relationship works because Danny is from a life of privilege, but also tragedy. His wealth is his privilege, but he earned his power. Luke came from a life of poverty and violence, and he got his powers by chance. He's never really left that life, and continues to fight for people still living it. He struggles because he is a minority, and he's judged for his past actions. Both of their ethnicities play heavily into their identities. It's about the culture that both live in, and how they deal with it. Writers write what they know. The reason you don't see shows about wealthy Asian families is because the writers have no idea how a wealthy Asian family operates. That is where culture comes in, and why ethnicity is a major part of any character. They operate mostly in those social circles. If you want to change Danny to a wealthy Asian guy, fine. But then you need to change his family into a wealthy Asian one, and that can change the plot and they way scenes play out. Tradition, respect and loyalty can be a major part of Asian culture, and you have to respect that if you want to write about an Asian man and his family. Otherwise you're misrepresenting the culture.

    Again, not seeing this as a good reason to block Danny having an Asian actor. Danny, despite being white, is heavily influenced by Asian culture - that's why he's such a divisive character. He's a surrogate for actual minorities, so why not cast one? Danny's culture is more influences by being raised in Asia/n inspired cultures, not being white.

    This is also why Marvel should have tried hiring a show runner which ticks off those boxes, they did that with JJ and LC, so why suddenly is this not a priority with IF's series? This would be the show to explore Asian culture, yet they hire a guy who coasts on Asian sounding catch phrases from pop culture than actually doing the research and Danny being white isn't a shield for him to do that.

    edit: Apparently this is an old argument with Iron Fist.

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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Doesn't look like anything to me Registered User regular
    Ep 5
    Loving Ward's slack jawed heroin face

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Again, only 4 episodes in...

    But part of what makes the incredulousness work is that it is a weird looking white hipster homeless dude who totes participated in the occupy wall street protests talking about the lessons of the buddha.

    Like, it really helps sell why nobody was taking him seriously.

    PantsB
  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    edited March 19
    The Meachums or however you spell them are great - Ward is a character that could have just been made a generic stereotype villain, but ends up (as far as I've watched) being a very nuanced person caught between multiple interests and loyalties, who acts in his own very well justified self-interest. That's the opposite of bad writing. That's good writing!

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Episode 3
    Finn Jones is not good at martial arts.

    I don't really get this
    Why not? He does lots of cool shit and kicks some serious ass.

    I'm on the last episode now and have been enjoying it. It has weak points but overall strikes me as better than DD Season 2 and Luke Cage.

    Episode 4
    It may just be because I'm a martial artist and grew up on martial arts movies, so my standards are higher. But it's very, very apparent that he is not good at martial arts.

    It's hard to put into words, but the best way I can describe it is that his movements are very stiff and wide open even though he's choreographed to only do basic, "fluid" moves. So it's like watching a beginner who can barely do the basic stuff who is trying his hardest to make it look "smooth", but is losing any semblance of fluidity or power in the process. A very rough analogy would be watching someone who has played sports throw a baseball, and then watching someone who has only done it for a few weeks. The major movements may look the same, but you can tell that there's less control and force between one and the other.

    For someone who is unfamiliar with martial arts, I would point to the distance and timing. When Jones is clearly the one in the shot, and someone takes a punch at him, he moves too far (or they give him too much margin for error) and he moves so slowly that it looks telegraphed (e.g., starting to duck his head before the punch even starts). If the intent is to show that he is better than everyone and requires only minimal movement, then he should only be ducking his head as little as possible at the very last moment. But he doesn't have the skill to pull this off (through no fault of his own). Also, any move that requires more than a modicum of physical ability obscures his face and is very clearly a stunt double (the jumping double roundhouse he does in the hallway fight, for example).

    To contrast, I don't think Jessica Henwick is actually that good at martial arts, either, but she can pull off basic stuff just fine. For example, her fight scenes and even that scene in the dojo where she's beating up on the wooden dummy are all shots where you can clearly see she is doing the work. Because the actor can credibly put force and technique behind her moves, much more so than Jones can for his. If you watch that wooden dummy scene again, all she is doing is straight punches and inside blocks ("wax on" in a hard karate style). But it looks fine because she can pull it off. Jones, I suspect, would not be able to do this kind of longer scene without it looking awkward.

    Some of this might be choreography, too. And maybe it's an unfair knock on him and it isn't noticeable to people who aren't familiar with it. The other Marvel properties don't have this problem because JJ and LC are brute strength, and Daredevil has the advantage of a more close-in, hard-hitting style that doesn't require him to look "effortless" (and a mask along with dark lighting that gives plenty of leeway for stunt doubles).

    One last example that I just thought of: Go back to the end of Episode 4 where Jones is doing slow "Tai Chi" stuff. When he pushes his arms outward from his body to his sides and fully extends, his hands are supposed to be angled at 90 degrees. This is a training exercise and an indication of skill - people who don't train to flex their hands in this way cannot hold an open-palmed strike at a 90 degree angle, especially not when their arms are fully or near-fully extended. Jones can't do this - not only does he not start off at 90 degrees, but by the time his arms are fully extended, his hands are barely angled past the horizontal plane, and his elbows are compensating by staying too far bent. Not only that, but his fingers are curled up nearly into fists, with the exception of his pointer finger, because that is easier to maintain than a full open palm (or, more common in heel strikes, keeping the lower third of each finger at 90 degrees and the rest curled up for protection).

    a.k.a. Antaeus or Nubmonger

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    from what i saw from a reliable source (ie some post i half remember) they only had 2 months or something to prepare for filming which is why he isnt bulked up and they havent really been able to do the training

    obF2Wuw.png
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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    from what i saw from a reliable source (ie some post i half remember) they only had 2 months or something to prepare for filming which is why he isnt bulked up and they havent really been able to do the training

    Finn Jones was cast in February 2016, and they started shooting in April 2016, so yeah, not a lot of time. And he said in interviews that in many cases he was learning the moves for the fight for the first time only 15 minutes before shooting.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    from what i saw from a reliable source (ie some post i half remember) they only had 2 months or something to prepare for filming which is why he isnt bulked up and they havent really been able to do the training

    Finn Jones was cast in February 2016, and they started shooting in April 2016, so yeah, not a lot of time. And he said in interviews that in many cases he was learning the moves for the fight for the first time only 15 minutes before shooting.

    1.jpg

    I'm not blaming Finn for this, but c'mon Marvel. Step your game up.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    from what i saw from a reliable source (ie some post i half remember) they only had 2 months or something to prepare for filming which is why he isnt bulked up and they havent really been able to do the training

    Finn Jones was cast in February 2016, and they started shooting in April 2016, so yeah, not a lot of time. And he said in interviews that in many cases he was learning the moves for the fight for the first time only 15 minutes before shooting.

    bam i knew my half remembered post knowledge would be 100% reliable accurate and the best always i shall never again give any indication of any uncertainty and just deliver it as pure received truth

    obF2Wuw.png
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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Doesn't look like anything to me Registered User regular
    Ep 6
    I don't give a crap about his Kung fu nonsense, I just want to see him use his torch hand to punch fools into red mist

    He's the sworn enemy of the hand, c'mon Randy Dan, cave in some chests

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  • ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    episode 11
    Colleen's escape scene reinforces my love for her and her standing as my Iron Fist Main Character

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  • PhantPhant Registered User regular
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    Inserting "here's how to be an ally lessons" is going to be the tedious part. Especially if it is focussed around "you white personal who likes the Wu tangs...."

    Having them bond and be friends ESPECIALLY if it starts with "you know I met method man one time?" will be fun

    It all sort of comes around full circle when you consider the Wu-Tang mention earlier, considering they incorporated so much of eastern martial arts terminology and symbolism into their image and lyrics, granted via cheesy kung-fu flicks, but still.

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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Doesn't look like anything to me Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    from what i saw from a reliable source (ie some post i half remember) they only had 2 months or something to prepare for filming which is why he isnt bulked up and they havent really been able to do the training

    Finn Jones was cast in February 2016, and they started shooting in April 2016, so yeah, not a lot of time. And he said in interviews that in many cases he was learning the moves for the fight for the first time only 15 minutes before shooting.

    bam i knew my half remembered post knowledge would be 100% reliable accurate and the best always i shall never again give any indication of any uncertainty and just deliver it as pure received truth

    Doubt is death

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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Doesn't look like anything to me Registered User regular
    theres a part in ep 6 where colleen breaks a dudes arm and knocks him over

    then looks at him and breaks his arm two more times with a pleased expression

    i would watch colleen wing, psychopath if netflix choose to air it

    That dude almost certainly just lost an arm

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    theres a part in ep 6 where colleen breaks a dudes arm and knocks him over

    then looks at him and breaks his arm two more times with a pleased expression

    i would watch colleen wing, psychopath if netflix choose to air it

    That dude almost certainly just lost an arm

    well you know he was dangerous but now

    hes

    armless

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    obF2Wuw.png
    ZampanovApothe0sisKashaarShadowfirespool32Gnome-InterruptusNobeardArdol
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Doesn't look like anything to me Registered User regular
    Eeeeyyyyyyy
    Eeeyyyyyyy

    Eyyy

    Tide goes in. Tide goes out.
    Es-annon NEVA 4GET
    surrealitycheck
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Kashaar wrote: »
    The Meachums or however you spell them are great - Ward is a character that could have just been made a generic stereotype villain, but ends up (as far as I've watched) being a very nuanced person caught between multiple interests and loyalties, who acts in his own very well justified self-interest. That's the opposite of bad writing. That's good writing!

    I did like how Ward's whole story arc is pretty much done by the end of the season.
    He's not tied down by his father anymore. He doesn't have to work for Rand. Once he helps clean things up for Danny, he can just leave and go live the life he wants.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    If they had just a few months to make this show then that explains quite a bit. Unfortunately, the writing and dialogue in particular is just bad. I'm guessing there was a lot more time to work on the script, so I'm less sympathetic.

    I'm four episodes in and this show is so frustratingly close to being legitimately great, because there are the seeds of a really good story here. It's unfortunate that they've dropped the ball on so many fundamental things.

    a.k.a. Antaeus or Nubmonger

    -A digital receiver in an analog world.
    Evigilant
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    If they had just a few months to make this show then that explains quite a bit. Unfortunately, the writing and dialogue in particular is just bad. I'm guessing there was a lot more time to work on the script, so I'm less sympathetic.

    I'm four episodes in and this show is so frustratingly close to being legitimately great, because there are the seeds of a really good story here. It's unfortunate that they've dropped the ball on so many fundamental things.

    They really should have canceled Iron Fist, and waited until they got a better date to make the show IF deserves before rolling it out at the last second. They needed more time to hash out how to get it to work right, and this is a show they can't fuck up on things like action sequences. Also get a higher budget, this is the one show they need to splurge on for special effects and exotic locations.

  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    Edit: Snipped as to not bog down the thread. I'm an idiot, and tired.

    SummaryJudgment on
    Terryology.
  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy Not a NASA RESIST.Registered User regular
    Summary, I don't comprehend.

    DracomicronRchanen
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    Summary, I don't comprehend.

    I had listed a valuable item in Path of Exile on auction without a buyout. Guy messages asking to buy it for 3 currency. I tell him I need to do a price check - I'm going to look at similar items with a buyout listed because I've never actually done a price check on what the item should be listed for. Those items are listed beginning at 9 currency all the way up to 25.

    Guy asks to buy it for 3.5 currency.

    SummaryJudgment on
    Terryology.
    thatassemblyguyGnome-Interruptus
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Doesn't look like anything to me Registered User regular
    This answers one question but opens others.

    Tide goes in. Tide goes out.
    Es-annon NEVA 4GET
    SummaryJudgmentRchanenDracomicronspool32
  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Summary, I don't comprehend.

    I had listed a valuable item in Path of Exile on auction without a buyout. Guy messages asking to buy it for 3 currency. I tell him I need to do a price check - I'm going to look at similar items with a buyout listed. Those items are listed beginning at 9 currency all the way up to 25.

    Guy asks to buy it for 3.5 currency.

    What does that have to do with Netflix and Iron Fist?

    shryke wrote: »
    The Democrats aren't crazy but they are still, you know, running the US and it's foreign policy. Which is in the "you don't have a global hegemony without bombing a few eggs" wheelhouse.
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Summary, I don't comprehend.

    I had listed a valuable item in Path of Exile on auction without a buyout. Guy messages asking to buy it for 3 currency. I tell him I need to do a price check - I'm going to look at similar items with a buyout listed. Those items are listed beginning at 9 currency all the way up to 25.

    Guy asks to buy it for 3.5 currency.

    What does that have to do with Netflix and Iron Fist?

    Absolutely nothing, I thought this was the chat thread.

    Carry on!

    Terryology.
    thatassemblyguy
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    If they had just a few months to make this show then that explains quite a bit. Unfortunately, the writing and dialogue in particular is just bad. I'm guessing there was a lot more time to work on the script, so I'm less sympathetic.

    I'm four episodes in and this show is so frustratingly close to being legitimately great, because there are the seeds of a really good story here. It's unfortunate that they've dropped the ball on so many fundamental things.

    They really should have canceled Iron Fist, and waited until they got a better date to make the show IF deserves before rolling it out at the last second. They needed more time to hash out how to get it to work right, and this is a show they can't fuck up on things like action sequences. Also get a higher budget, this is the one show they need to splurge on for special effects and exotic locations.

    They definitely needed the budget to actually show K'un Lun. They pretty much gave no reason to care about K'un Lun this season.
    People talk about it like it's some wonderful place and how there's beautiful scenery there but all we really know about it is that they put children through abusive training to turn them into warriors. They don't show any of the people there except for the monks. We don't know what kind of society it is. We don't even know if only warriors monks live there or if there's a civilian society. We have no idea why it's special, why it has to be protected, why the Hand wants to destroy it, or what the consequences are if it is destroyed. So why should we care that Danny left or that it gets attacked by the Hand and disappears at the end?

    EriktheVikingGamer
  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Episode 3
    Finn Jones is not good at martial arts.

    I don't really get this
    Why not? He does lots of cool shit and kicks some serious ass.

    I'm on the last episode now and have been enjoying it. It has weak points but overall strikes me as better than DD Season 2 and Luke Cage.

    Episode 4
    It may just be because I'm a martial artist and grew up on martial arts movies, so my standards are higher. But it's very, very apparent that he is not good at martial arts.

    It's hard to put into words, but the best way I can describe it is that his movements are very stiff and wide open even though he's choreographed to only do basic, "fluid" moves. So it's like watching a beginner who can barely do the basic stuff who is trying his hardest to make it look "smooth", but is losing any semblance of fluidity or power in the process. A very rough analogy would be watching someone who has played sports throw a baseball, and then watching someone who has only done it for a few weeks. The major movements may look the same, but you can tell that there's less control and force between one and the other.

    For someone who is unfamiliar with martial arts, I would point to the distance and timing. When Jones is clearly the one in the shot, and someone takes a punch at him, he moves too far (or they give him too much margin for error) and he moves so slowly that it looks telegraphed (e.g., starting to duck his head before the punch even starts). If the intent is to show that he is better than everyone and requires only minimal movement, then he should only be ducking his head as little as possible at the very last moment. But he doesn't have the skill to pull this off (through no fault of his own). Also, any move that requires more than a modicum of physical ability obscures his face and is very clearly a stunt double (the jumping double roundhouse he does in the hallway fight, for example).

    To contrast, I don't think Jessica Henwick is actually that good at martial arts, either, but she can pull off basic stuff just fine. For example, her fight scenes and even that scene in the dojo where she's beating up on the wooden dummy are all shots where you can clearly see she is doing the work. Because the actor can credibly put force and technique behind her moves, much more so than Jones can for his. If you watch that wooden dummy scene again, all she is doing is straight punches and inside blocks ("wax on" in a hard karate style). But it looks fine because she can pull it off. Jones, I suspect, would not be able to do this kind of longer scene without it looking awkward.

    Some of this might be choreography, too. And maybe it's an unfair knock on him and it isn't noticeable to people who aren't familiar with it. The other Marvel properties don't have this problem because JJ and LC are brute strength, and Daredevil has the advantage of a more close-in, hard-hitting style that doesn't require him to look "effortless" (and a mask along with dark lighting that gives plenty of leeway for stunt doubles).

    One last example that I just thought of: Go back to the end of Episode 4 where Jones is doing slow "Tai Chi" stuff. When he pushes his arms outward from his body to his sides and fully extends, his hands are supposed to be angled at 90 degrees. This is a training exercise and an indication of skill - people who don't train to flex their hands in this way cannot hold an open-palmed strike at a 90 degree angle, especially not when their arms are fully or near-fully extended. Jones can't do this - not only does he not start off at 90 degrees, but by the time his arms are fully extended, his hands are barely angled past the horizontal plane, and his elbows are compensating by staying too far bent. Not only that, but his fingers are curled up nearly into fists, with the exception of his pointer finger, because that is easier to maintain than a full open palm (or, more common in heel strikes, keeping the lower third of each finger at 90 degrees and the rest curled up for protection).

    In LC

    One of the things I liked about LC was the fighting style they use for the character. Yeah, it's brute strength. But it's trained brute strength. Efficiency of movement and emphasis on power, size, superior reach and the leverage those can give you.
    Episode 3 seems a decent enough example. The fight at the end with Stryker seems less so.

    Rchanen on
    shryke wrote: »
    The Democrats aren't crazy but they are still, you know, running the US and it's foreign policy. Which is in the "you don't have a global hegemony without bombing a few eggs" wheelhouse.
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