After looking at the staff for this show, it looks like 3 episodes had an Asian director. 0 episodes had an Asian writer. Seriously, how do you have a grand total of zero Asian people on the writing staff on a show like this?
Asian Writer doesn't equal Asian Culture. Think to your heritage. I'm Jewish, German, and Irish with Russian, Italian, and Eastern European mixed in and I don't know shit about any of those places or cultures except that which is mainstream. And when you dive into Asian Culture, European Culture, Latin American Culture, ect, you find that it differs greatly from country to country, region to region. Plus, IF hardly uses Asian Culture as much as it uses Asian Movie Culture. Colleen's Bushido is watered down, Danny's monks and Chi is generic and the Hand is ninjas in the slightest way. Which might be on purpose since the show has been under fire for Cultural Appropriation from the go so they decided not to deal with Asian Culture unless necessary, like Luke Cage did with BLM and police brutality.
It does with the right person, that's why LC worked. They got the right person who knew that perspective and had the talent to pull it off. Sure, it wasn't perfect but they did so much right. Nor should it be bad for Marvel to look around for Asian show runners, American and/or aboard for this type of property. You don't get someone who doesn't know shit about this stuff, like Scott Buck, you get someone like Cheo Hodari Coker or Melissa Rosenberg* from an Asian perspective.
The reason why we get shit like watered down Bushido, Danny's monks and generic chi is because they weren't trying hard enough to make this work. What I'm interested in why they managed to do this correctly with JJ and LC, while on IF they dropped the ball hard. Did they bother searching for talent like that? Were they all turned away because Loeb didn't want Batman Begins? What's going on here?
Considering what a third rail with racial politics IF is, this should have been a high priority for whoever they chose for a show runner.
After looking at the staff for this show, it looks like 3 episodes had an Asian director. 0 episodes had an Asian writer. Seriously, how do you have a grand total of zero Asian people on the writing staff on a show like this?
Asian Writer doesn't equal Asian Culture. Think to your heritage. I'm Jewish, German, and Irish with Russian, Italian, and Eastern European mixed in and I don't know shit about any of those places or cultures except that which is mainstream. And when you dive into Asian Culture, European Culture, Latin American Culture, ect, you find that it differs greatly from country to country, region to region. Plus, IF hardly uses Asian Culture as much as it uses Asian Movie Culture. Colleen's Bushido is watered down, Danny's monks and Chi is generic and the Hand is ninjas in the slightest way. Which might be on purpose since the show has been under fire for Cultural Appropriation from the go so they decided not to deal with Asian Culture unless necessary, like Luke Cage did with BLM and police brutality.
The annoying thing is that they actually quote Buddhist philosophy, mantra, and prayer. If they actually wanted to just do something "Asian/Tibetan/Shaolin inspired" then they might as well have made some stuff up. Make K'un Lun like the Jedis or the benders from Avatar. Have something inspired by existing cultures but avoid using real culture and philosophy.
I'm pretty sure making up generic Asianish culture for people living in modern Earth is going to be more offensive than a 3/4th arsed attempt at using Japanese and not-Tibetan culture.
People would likely call that Orientalism, which seems mostly to be the wrong term.
It is a bit galling after the bang on job they did with Luke Cage.
+1
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
A thing that is non serious for most people and really just a trope and it's fine I guess but:
how come when someone who's a cracker-jack martial artist in a show needs money, they always enter an "illegal, underground" fight? You can get fights for a couple hundred bucks in a big city without breaking the law. I mean, I guess they are in new york, but shit. Jersey's right there. Can Colleen not pass a physical? Is she on PEDs?
A few things work in this: I actually like
harold meachum
I liked the
drunken master guy. Why couldn't that guy have been iron fist? See also: The third guy he duels in the challenge. I literally sat up when that guy was introduced in the karaoke scene and thought "Someone who is actually interesting! I hope he's the main badguy!"
I like
bakuto's creepy, modern cult that shows the hand is international and modernized
After looking at the staff for this show, it looks like 3 episodes had an Asian director. 0 episodes had an Asian writer. Seriously, how do you have a grand total of zero Asian people on the writing staff on a show like this?
Asian Writer doesn't equal Asian Culture. Think to your heritage. I'm Jewish, German, and Irish with Russian, Italian, and Eastern European mixed in and I don't know shit about any of those places or cultures except that which is mainstream. And when you dive into Asian Culture, European Culture, Latin American Culture, ect, you find that it differs greatly from country to country, region to region. Plus, IF hardly uses Asian Culture as much as it uses Asian Movie Culture. Colleen's Bushido is watered down, Danny's monks and Chi is generic and the Hand is ninjas in the slightest way. Which might be on purpose since the show has been under fire for Cultural Appropriation from the go so they decided not to deal with Asian Culture unless necessary, like Luke Cage did with BLM and police brutality.
The annoying thing is that they actually quote Buddhist philosophy, mantra, and prayer. If they actually wanted to just do something "Asian/Tibetan/Shaolin inspired" then they might as well have made some stuff up. Make K'un Lun like the Jedis or the benders from Avatar. Have something inspired by existing cultures but avoid using real culture and philosophy.
I'm pretty sure making up generic Asianish culture for people living in modern Earth is going to be more offensive than a 3/4th arsed attempt at using Japanese and not-Tibetan culture.
People would likely call that Orientalism, which seems mostly to be the wrong term.
Depends how they do it*. Is Wakanda in Black Panther going to have a similar problem?
* a third option is making K'un-Lun settled by Asian immigrants centuries ago, I guess
Yeah, there is no way a Japanese speaker would say Bushido Code, just like there is no way an English speaker would say ATM machine or PIN number.
Some of these nits being picked must be dislocating shoulders from having to reach so hard.
In areas where the director/editor did really screw up, that scene where an 'unconscious' body moved its wrists together to be tied up really exemplifies things that should have been removed from the frame during shooting or editing, just like the magic backpack in the pilot.
I think there was some issues with Danny Rand's physicality in some of the fight scenes, and even more with the Kata/Tai Chi type movements. It wasn't enough to ruin the series though.
End spoilers
Cons: The Corporate stuff, just because it didn't make any fucking sense. It'd be like if you randomly included Phone a Friend as an option during a trial in DD. If you're not going to bother making it coherent, just leave it out. The fights were uneven.
Also what year is this supposed to be taking place in? Because I'm pretty sure it directly contradicts itself unnecessarily there.
Ep3 spoiler with tiny reference to a later conversation around 11 or so
Danny's grave says
199*
But he also has an I-Pod which debuted in late 2001 although it might be a 2nd generation 2002 model.
And he's been gone "about" 15 years.
I guess the 199* could maybe be a birth year. If he was born in 1991 or 92, was 10 when they crashed in 2001 or 2002 and returned in 2016 or 2017 or so. But that also means Joy not only graduated law school and passed the bar but was well established and saw her entry into a legal career at Rand as something sufficiently in the past to not be seen as recent in her discussion with her brother.
Working my way through episode 6 here and I'm impressed how much they've made me sympathize with Ward. Cause he really is kind of a dickhole but I also appreciate his frustration with dealing with Danny and all the other shit going on in his life.
PS - shout out to Claire for calling Danny a crazy person
Also, I am getting a real sense of why some of the reviewers disliked this because the show really hasn't yet done a good job of establishing an overarcing motivation for much of anything. There's not yet a real sense of what Danny wants or is after or why he came back yet.
Wait one of the biggest criticisms is he lacks a solid plan or well defined set of goals? Holy shit he really is OWS!
JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
the rands were super-rich, so I the Ipod he probably could have had early.
The fact that he couldn't even follow bakuto through some basic tai-chi-looking stuff and that he looks like a snowboarder in the summer and not a fighter and they have to cut the shit out of everything to drop him out and his stuntperson in ...those are issues.
I think there was some issues with Danny Rand's physicality in some of the fight scenes, and even more with the Kata/Tai Chi type movements. It wasn't enough to ruin the series though.
End spoilers
Cons: The Corporate stuff, just because it didn't make any fucking sense. It'd be like if you randomly included Phone a Friend as an option during a trial in DD. If you're not going to bother making it coherent, just leave it out. The fights were uneven.
Also what year is this supposed to be taking place in? Because I'm pretty sure it directly contradicts itself unnecessarily there.
Ep3 spoiler with tiny reference to a later conversation around 11 or so
Danny's grave says
199*
But he also has an I-Pod which debuted in late 2001 although it might be a 2nd generation 2002 model.
And he's been gone "about" 15 years.
I guess the 199* could maybe be a birth year. If he was born in 1991 or 92, was 10 when they crashed in 2001 or 2002 and returned in 2016 or 2017 or so. But that also means Joy not only graduated law school and passed the bar but was well established and saw her entry into a legal career at Rand as something sufficiently in the past to not be seen as recent in her discussion with her brother.
What weird I've noticed is that nowhere in the first few episodes do they talk about the Avengers, HYDRA, aliens etc. The guy is a goober who doesn't know anything recent, yet those subjects don't get a sentence of acknowledgement.
Yeah, there is no way a Japanese speaker would say Bushido Code, just like there is no way an English speaker would say ATM machine or PIN number.
Some of these nits being picked must be dislocating shoulders from having to reach so hard.
That's a really bad comparison, since "bushido" isn't an acronym, and Wing isn't a layperson who just heard about Bushido in passing.
And as we said, the problem isn't simply that these mistakes happen. The problem is that there's no indication that the creators even care.
What exactly does Iron Fist explore that other action movies haven't done a lot better? What new concepts or insights does Iron Fist introduce, other than "he can punch really hard -- but only when he concentrates"?
After looking at the staff for this show, it looks like 3 episodes had an Asian director. 0 episodes had an Asian writer. Seriously, how do you have a grand total of zero Asian people on the writing staff on a show like this?
Asian Writer doesn't equal Asian Culture. Think to your heritage. I'm Jewish, German, and Irish with Russian, Italian, and Eastern European mixed in and I don't know shit about any of those places or cultures except that which is mainstream. And when you dive into Asian Culture, European Culture, Latin American Culture, ect, you find that it differs greatly from country to country, region to region. Plus, IF hardly uses Asian Culture as much as it uses Asian Movie Culture. Colleen's Bushido is watered down, Danny's monks and Chi is generic and the Hand is ninjas in the slightest way. Which might be on purpose since the show has been under fire for Cultural Appropriation from the go so they decided not to deal with Asian Culture unless necessary, like Luke Cage did with BLM and police brutality.
It does with the right person, that's why LC worked. They got the right person who knew that perspective and had the talent to pull it off. Sure, it wasn't perfect but they did so much right. Nor should it be bad for Marvel to look around for Asian show runners, American and/or aboard for this type of property. You don't get someone who doesn't know shit about this stuff, like Scott Buck, you get someone like Cheo Hodari Coker or Melissa Rosenberg* from an Asian perspective.
The reason why we get shit like watered down Bushido, Danny's monks and generic chi is because they weren't trying hard enough to make this work. What I'm interested in why they managed to do this correctly with JJ and LC, while on IF they dropped the ball hard. Did they bother searching for talent like that? Were they all turned away because Loeb didn't want Batman Begins? What's going on here?
Considering what a third rail with racial politics IF is, this should have been a high priority for whoever they chose for a show runner.
* huh, she's another alumni from Dexter
You might just want to get a Asian Historical Consultant instead of a writer who might know some odd fact because of his race.
+2
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
Yeah, there is no way a Japanese speaker would say Bushido Code, just like there is no way an English speaker would say ATM machine or PIN number.
Some of these nits being picked must be dislocating shoulders from having to reach so hard.
That's a really bad comparison, since "bushido" isn't an acronym, and Wing isn't a layperson who just heard about Bushido in passing.
And as we said, the problem isn't simply that these mistakes happen. The problem is that there's no indication that the creators even care.
What exactly does Iron Fist explore that other action movies haven't done a lot better? What new concepts or insights does Iron Fist introduce, other than "he can punch really hard -- but only when he concentrates"?
well, a japanese speaker would literally be saying "bushidodo" to make the same mistake, which is the japanese word for "fluffy extinct bird"
(Yeah, I do puns. bad puns. They only kind of puns)
After looking at the staff for this show, it looks like 3 episodes had an Asian director. 0 episodes had an Asian writer. Seriously, how do you have a grand total of zero Asian people on the writing staff on a show like this?
Asian Writer doesn't equal Asian Culture. Think to your heritage. I'm Jewish, German, and Irish with Russian, Italian, and Eastern European mixed in and I don't know shit about any of those places or cultures except that which is mainstream. And when you dive into Asian Culture, European Culture, Latin American Culture, ect, you find that it differs greatly from country to country, region to region. Plus, IF hardly uses Asian Culture as much as it uses Asian Movie Culture. Colleen's Bushido is watered down, Danny's monks and Chi is generic and the Hand is ninjas in the slightest way. Which might be on purpose since the show has been under fire for Cultural Appropriation from the go so they decided not to deal with Asian Culture unless necessary, like Luke Cage did with BLM and police brutality.
It does with the right person, that's why LC worked. They got the right person who knew that perspective and had the talent to pull it off. Sure, it wasn't perfect but they did so much right. Nor should it be bad for Marvel to look around for Asian show runners, American and/or aboard for this type of property. You don't get someone who doesn't know shit about this stuff, like Scott Buck, you get someone like Cheo Hodari Coker or Melissa Rosenberg* from an Asian perspective.
The reason why we get shit like watered down Bushido, Danny's monks and generic chi is because they weren't trying hard enough to make this work. What I'm interested in why they managed to do this correctly with JJ and LC, while on IF they dropped the ball hard. Did they bother searching for talent like that? Were they all turned away because Loeb didn't want Batman Begins? What's going on here?
Considering what a third rail with racial politics IF is, this should have been a high priority for whoever they chose for a show runner.
* huh, she's another alumni from Dexter
You might just want to get a Asian Historical Consultant instead of a writer who might know some odd fact because of his race.
That, too. But I don't think that'd be enough to overcome the fact the show runner is Scott Buck. From what I've read he doesn't really give those subjects deep thought, y'know?
After looking at the staff for this show, it looks like 3 episodes had an Asian director. 0 episodes had an Asian writer. Seriously, how do you have a grand total of zero Asian people on the writing staff on a show like this?
Asian Writer doesn't equal Asian Culture. Think to your heritage. I'm Jewish, German, and Irish with Russian, Italian, and Eastern European mixed in and I don't know shit about any of those places or cultures except that which is mainstream. And when you dive into Asian Culture, European Culture, Latin American Culture, ect, you find that it differs greatly from country to country, region to region. Plus, IF hardly uses Asian Culture as much as it uses Asian Movie Culture. Colleen's Bushido is watered down, Danny's monks and Chi is generic and the Hand is ninjas in the slightest way. Which might be on purpose since the show has been under fire for Cultural Appropriation from the go so they decided not to deal with Asian Culture unless necessary, like Luke Cage did with BLM and police brutality.
The annoying thing is that they actually quote Buddhist philosophy, mantra, and prayer. If they actually wanted to just do something "Asian/Tibetan/Shaolin inspired" then they might as well have made some stuff up. Make K'un Lun like the Jedis or the benders from Avatar. Have something inspired by existing cultures but avoid using real culture and philosophy.
I'm pretty sure making up generic Asianish culture for people living in modern Earth is going to be more offensive than a 3/4th arsed attempt at using Japanese and not-Tibetan culture.
People would likely call that Orientalism, which seems mostly to be the wrong term.
It's kind of what they did for Dr. Strange. Other than some mentions of chakras and qi, I'm pretty sure they never mentioned any real Buddhist/Hindu/Taoist philosophy/myths.
+2
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Someone said it earlier and I had the exact same thought while watching as well - they should have made Danny more like Aang or imbued him with more aspects of the "Happy Warrior" archetype. Instead we got a completely boring, schizophrenic, and unsympathetic character with no motivation whatsoever. He even says as much multiple times during the season. Other characters literally call him out on it and he has no coherent response even by the end of the show. WTF.
And don't get me started on the "painful flashbacks". It's like watching someone who thinks "serious acting" always looks like you are supposed to be taking a really difficult shit. Oh no, you're thinking about a painful memory - time to make your sphincter-flexing face!
Someone said it earlier and I had the exact same thought while watching as well - they should have made Danny more like Aang or imbued him with more aspects of the "Happy Warrior" archetype. Instead we got a completely boring, schizophrenic, and unsympathetic character with no motivation whatsoever. He even says as much multiple times during the season. Other characters literally call him out on it and he has no coherent response even by the end of the show. WTF.
And don't get me started on the "painful flashbacks". It's like watching someone who thinks "serious acting" always looks like you are supposed to be taking a really difficult shit. Oh no, you're thinking about a painful memory - time to make your sphincter-flexing face!
He'll likely get a soft reboot/more focused in Defenders. What they use there they can springboard onto S2, if IF gets renewed. Which I want, but it's vital they get the proper production time, larger budget and a new, competent show runner.
I don't think Iron Fist will ever be good with that actor. It's atrocious casting.
I don't know, there are parts where I can see some good acting there. I'm willing to give Finn a chance with Defenders in a production that's less chaotic. He's not exactly being given the best material to work with here, and while he's not as talented as say, Jessica Henwick, solid material should fill in the holes in his acting. Or he'll sink like a stone, then they should recast him asap.
On the Kung Fu side of Marvel, guns are for people who don't know how to fight properly. I believe there's actually a line in one of the episodes expressing exactly that sentiment.
If we're striving for realism, the idea of someone who can hear their surroundings well enough to backflip through them is probably off the table, too.
But they still had guns in Daredevil. They found creative ways for Daredevil to disarm people and made the fights interesting. They should have done that in Iron Fist.
I really hope the poor way they handled guns in Iron Fist doesn't carry over to Defenders. Because with both Daredevil and Luke Cage, they should have bad guys with guns. It would be embarrassing if Iron Fist can't deal with guns.
Not sure if I should spoiler this but to be on the safe side...
Towards the end, Iron Fist discovers his chi can in fact make him bullet proof but only with the one hand. Not only that, but he finds out he can use it to heal, to the degree that he can heal others. IIRC Daredevil could do something similar to a lesser degree for himself only. Add to that, old footage described as for Chinese propaganda, inadvertently shows a previous super warrior monk of Kun Lun - only that bad ass has TWO glowing "iron" hands. Around the same time he supposedly learns how to recharge his chi better. To me, all of this implies that while Danny Rand may be a bad ass, he is literally naively operating along thinking he is fully bad ass, when he is really only using like 15-20% of the full potential of the whole "I got dragon sized chi super powers" thing and by the end of the season, he still isn't as rocking out as hard as a previous Ironfist from Kun Lun, he might only be up to 40-50% of what a fully fledged Ironfist nutbar can get up to.
I very much get the impression that Danny is purposely shown this season as in many ways not living up to his full potential - in body, mind, and soul. Still a lot of room their for growth in his character and abilities to deal with all kinds of threats, including firearms.
apparently a major problem with iron fist was getting the story locked in
jeph loeb said no to a bunch of earlier versions (specifically, he didnt want to do a batman begins type story), and that is why it ended up being a 2 month jump from casting to shooting
And yet that's exactly what we got. And he should have said no to Buck on pure principal based on Dexter, what was he thinking?
The easiest way to make Danny Rand unique as a character would be by focusing on his experiences in K'un Lun. Which is exactly what we didn't see.
The fact that Danny abandons the city has no weight because we never see much of the people he's abandoning.
I was trying to imagine Lewis Tan in the lead role, but I haven't seen enough of him to know if he could pull off the "all American boy next door." But then I realized that someone who disappeared from from the planet when he was 10 and spent the past 15 years in a mystical city wouldn't act like an "all American boy next door" anymore.
+6
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
apparently a major problem with iron fist was getting the story locked in
jeph loeb said no to a bunch of earlier versions (specifically, he didnt want to do a batman begins type story), and that is why it ended up being a 2 month jump from casting to shooting
And yet that's exactly what we got. And he should have said no to Buck on pure principal based on Dexter, what was he thinking?
The easiest way to make Danny Rand unique as a character would be by focusing on his experiences in K'un Lun. Which is exactly what we didn't see.
The fact that Danny abandons the city has no weight because we never see much of the people he's abandoning.
I was trying to imagine Lewis Tan in the lead role, but I haven't seen enough of him to know if he could pull off the "all American boy next door." But then I realized that someone who disappeared from from the planet when he was 10 and spent the past 15 years in a mystical city wouldn't act like an "all American boy next door" anymore.
This. My criticisms of this show are more fundamental than an attempt to argue that "this is racist appropriation and they should've fixed it so I'm going to bitch about everything else to prove how shitty this show is until I get what I want".
We have no basis with which to understand the Danny Rand character at all. It doesn't matter what race he is in this story because he's an empty vessel with no motivation or context of his own. He is shown as a fish out of water, except he behaves in such a way as to indicate that he has no understanding of American customs at all, except that he clearly does because he left when he was 10, not when he was 5, and he has a million super-specific memories of his childhood that are supposed to help prove his identity. So he just comes across as an obnoxious douche.
We have no idea how he was trained beyond getting beaten by sticks and being randomly admonished with cliche Oriental wisdomisms. We have no idea how he grew up beyond "funny" stories of how he was a wascally wabbit in K'un L'un (which, to me, indicates that he didn't lose much of his American identity?). We have no context with which to place his erratic behavior - breaking into buildings, ignoring armed guards, demanding that people accept him for who he says he is without any proof whatsoever, etc.
And then when we are asked to sympathize with him, we have no idea what his motivation actually is. He just does shit. Because he wants to? Except when he doesn't? Whatever. Like nearly every single other character in the show, he does shit to move the story along, rather than as an active force driving it forward. It's jarringly bad storytelling and points to fundamental issues with the script.
Gao even said in the first season of DD that she didn't care about the heroin when her plant was destroyed. That implies there's some other reason for selling the drugs.
That's right. So 3 seasons of a plot we know is a diversion. I wish they'd reveal something already, it's making the Hand tedious.
What are you talking about, they did reveal something, a whole lot of somethings.
Season 1 Daredevil didn't make it clear Madam Gao was The Hand, now we know she is, and not only that Nobu is not the only immortal, not by a long shot. So, in season 1 of Daredevil, Madam Gao was full on playing Kingpin because he definitely treated her as being separate from Nobu. Turns out, they were just factions of the same organization. Hell, chances are pretty good at this point that any of the leadership and their best ninjas/assassins/fighters are all fucking immortal. So we have some idea that there is at least 3 distinct factions to The Hand. Sprinkle on to that, that Madam Gao's and Bakuto's seemed to reveal that the pool of potential recruits is not just those of asian descent, but drawn from world wide - good luck trying to identify The Hand by ethnicity. Seems like the potential is there that the The Hand have a faction in just about every region, so Nobu (now Elektra?) and Madam Gao's factions were just making moves on Bakuto's territory this whole time during the events of Daredevil's seasons, essentially Japan and Chinese The Hand made a deal with Kingpin (and poisoned that deal from the outset) and moved on Bakuto's assets because they wanted powerful artifacts related to immortality and super soldiers so they could control even more from the shadows. We've also seen how they do their 'community outreach' to recruit young, probably how Nobu had a kid that Elektra offs working for him, just some cult indoctrinated kid from his region. Their hard on for Kun Lun is just another iron in the fire for them in their pursuit to rule from the shadows, another potential source of super soldier nonsense. They are kinda no different than Hydra in that respect, wonder if they worship some nasty entity from another dimension too...
MCU is just rife with secret organizations each trying to develop an ultimate soldier, eh?
apparently a major problem with iron fist was getting the story locked in
jeph loeb said no to a bunch of earlier versions (specifically, he didnt want to do a batman begins type story), and that is why it ended up being a 2 month jump from casting to shooting
And yet that's exactly what we got. And he should have said no to Buck on pure principal based on Dexter, what was he thinking?
The easiest way to make Danny Rand unique as a character would be by focusing on his experiences in K'un Lun. Which is exactly what we didn't see.
The fact that Danny abandons the city has no weight because we never see much of the people he's abandoning.
I was trying to imagine Lewis Tan in the lead role, but I haven't seen enough of him to know if he could pull off the "all American boy next door." But then I realized that someone who disappeared from from the planet when he was 10 and spent the past 15 years in a mystical city wouldn't act like an "all American boy next door" anymore.
This. My criticisms of this show are more fundamental than an attempt to argue that "this is racist appropriation and they should've fixed it so I'm going to bitch about everything else to prove how shitty this show is until I get what I want".
We have no basis with which to understand the Danny Rand character at all. It doesn't matter what race he is in this story because he's an empty vessel with no motivation or context of his own. He is shown as a fish out of water, except he behaves in such a way as to indicate that he has no understanding of American customs at all, except that he clearly does because he left when he was 10, not when he was 5, and he has a million super-specific memories of his childhood that are supposed to help prove his identity. So he just comes across as an obnoxious douche.
We have no idea how he was trained beyond getting beaten by sticks and being randomly admonished with cliche Oriental wisdomisms. We have no idea how he grew up beyond "funny" stories of how he was a wascally wabbit in K'un L'un (which, to me, indicates that he didn't lose much of his American identity?). We have no context with which to place his erratic behavior - breaking into buildings, ignoring armed guards, demanding that people accept him for who he says he is without any proof whatsoever, etc.
And then when we are asked to sympathize with him, we have no idea what his motivation actually is. He just does shit. Because he wants to? Except when he doesn't? Whatever. Like nearly every single other character in the show, he does shit to move the story along, rather than as an active force driving it forward. It's jarringly bad storytelling and points to fundamental issues with the script.
You know a Netflix show that the writers should have watched before making this?
Gao even said in the first season of DD that she didn't care about the heroin when her plant was destroyed. That implies there's some other reason for selling the drugs.
That's right. So 3 seasons of a plot we know is a diversion. I wish they'd reveal something already, it's making the Hand tedious.
What are you talking about, they did reveal something, a whole lot of somethings.
Season 1 Daredevil didn't make it clear Madam Gao was The Hand, now we know she is, and not only that Nobu is not the only immortal, not by a long shot. So, in season 1 of Daredevil, Madam Gao was full on playing Kingpin because he definitely treated her as being separate from Nobu. Turns out, they were just factions of the same organization. Hell, chances are pretty good at this point that any of the leadership and their best ninjas/assassins/fighters are all fucking immortal. So we have some idea that there is at least 3 distinct factions to The Hand. Sprinkle on to that, that Madam Gao's and Bakuto's seemed to reveal that the pool of potential recruits is not just those of asian descent, but drawn from world wide - good luck trying to identify The Hand by ethnicity. Seems like the potential is there that the The Hand have a faction in just about every region, so Nobu (now Elektra?) and Madam Gao's factions were just making moves on Bakuto's territory this whole time during the events of Daredevil's seasons, essentially Japan and Chinese The Hand made a deal with Kingpin (and poisoned that deal from the outset) and moved on Bakuto's assets because they wanted powerful artifacts related to immortality and super soldiers so they could control even more from the shadows. We've also seen how they do their 'community outreach' to recruit young, probably how Nobu had a kid that Elektra offs working for him, just some cult indoctrinated kid from his region. Their hard on for Kun Lun is just another iron in the fire for them in their pursuit to rule from the shadows, another potential source of super soldier nonsense. They are kinda no different than Hydra in that respect, wonder if they worship some nasty entity from another dimension too...
MCU is just rife with secret organizations each trying to develop an ultimate soldier, eh?
Except Madame Gao
didn't just move to New York. She was already using Rand to sell drugs 15 years ago. She's pretty much been running Rand through Harold for all that time. In fact, that kind of contradicts her plot in DD season 1. Why did she need Kingpin or the Russians to distribute her heroin if she was already using Rand to do it worldwide?
Gao even said in the first season of DD that she didn't care about the heroin when her plant was destroyed. That implies there's some other reason for selling the drugs.
That's right. So 3 seasons of a plot we know is a diversion. I wish they'd reveal something already, it's making the Hand tedious.
What are you talking about, they did reveal something, a whole lot of somethings.
Season 1 Daredevil didn't make it clear Madam Gao was The Hand, now we know she is, and not only that Nobu is not the only immortal, not by a long shot. So, in season 1 of Daredevil, Madam Gao was full on playing Kingpin because he definitely treated her as being separate from Nobu. Turns out, they were just factions of the same organization. Hell, chances are pretty good at this point that any of the leadership and their best ninjas/assassins/fighters are all fucking immortal. So we have some idea that there is at least 3 distinct factions to The Hand. Sprinkle on to that, that Madam Gao's and Bakuto's seemed to reveal that the pool of potential recruits is not just those of asian descent, but drawn from world wide - good luck trying to identify The Hand by ethnicity. Seems like the potential is there that the The Hand have a faction in just about every region, so Nobu (now Elektra?) and Madam Gao's factions were just making moves on Bakuto's territory this whole time during the events of Daredevil's seasons, essentially Japan and Chinese The Hand made a deal with Kingpin (and poisoned that deal from the outset) and moved on Bakuto's assets because they wanted powerful artifacts related to immortality and super soldiers so they could control even more from the shadows. We've also seen how they do their 'community outreach' to recruit young, probably how Nobu had a kid that Elektra offs working for him, just some cult indoctrinated kid from his region. Their hard on for Kun Lun is just another iron in the fire for them in their pursuit to rule from the shadows, another potential source of super soldier nonsense. They are kinda no different than Hydra in that respect, wonder if they worship some nasty entity from another dimension too...
MCU is just rife with secret organizations each trying to develop an ultimate soldier, eh?
Except Madame Gao
didn't just move to New York. She was already using Rand to sell drugs 15 years ago. She's pretty much been running Rand through Harold for all that time. In fact, that kind of contradicts her plot in DD season 1. Why did she need Kingpin or the Russians to distribute her heroin if she was already using Rand to do it worldwide?
The evidence continues to mount that Scott Buck didn't watch DD S1 or 2.
Got through the entirety of the season. My thoughts, broken up so it's not obnoxiously long.
I didn't mind Finn Jones as Danny, he played the innocent warrior monk just well enough for me to be entertained by it. But yeah... he seriously needed more time to learn to fight. When you have shows like DD where you have one giant 4 minute long hallway fight with no real cuts in the action, the fights in this show about Kung Fu masters were atrocious. It's not bad for a syndicated show, but DD set the bar SO high that it was going to disappoint no matter what. It's just a shame that the fight scenes disappointed so much... Into The Badlands had better kung fu than this show.
Seriously, the reason why this show feels so different is that the other shows have a specific theme and genre they were paying homage to. DD was hardcore crime drama, JJ was psychological thriller, LC was blacksploitation. Iron Fist SHOULD have been part Hong Kong action and part Wuxia action, and in the end it wasn't either of those. Even the tournament was lame half the time, and most of the time Jones was fighting, they made the lighting suck so you couldn't tell how bad it looked.
But the biggest crime of this show was that as an origin story for Iron Fist, it utterly FAILED. Jones is wandering around going 'I'm Iron Fist, I'm Iron Fist, I'm Iron Fist', but he's Danny Rand for 90% of it, and only a handful of people know what the hell he's doing. They have him leave K'un-Lun early so he's not learned all his powers, he can apparently only put his chi in one hand, and the big awesome time he finally uses it effectively at the end is spoiled in the TRAILER. None of this gets solved, and apparently it won't for a while since K'un-Lun has vanished, probably along with the dragon egg. Also, no costume... are we really gonna have just ONE of the Defenders in a costume, while everyone else just wears their clubbing outfits?
Like many who watched this, I thought both Ward and Gao stole the show whenever they were doing something. Both of them had great story arcs, which I believe were better than Danny Rand's. Harold was alright, but we already had a corrupt corporate CEO with a short fuse, and Harold just felt like a Kingpin Lite because of it. Colleen performed better action than Jones, and Claire is really starting to become the glue that keeps these shows together.
I hate there were just two fighting styles really shown off. Drunken Master, and it at least looked like Davos was using Southern Praying Mantis. No, I don't care that this is set in New York... you managed to throw a tournament into this show, you could've thrown more fighting styles in. This show should've been basically any Bruce Lee movie ever made redone for the Marvel universe... there are literally formulas for making these kinds of shows, and they still couldn't work it out.
It was a fun show, still found it more entertaining than half the shows on Netflix, and 90% of shows on syndicated TV. But this was a rushed show, and it's glaringly obvious. It can't make up its mind if it wants to be a set up for Defenders, or an actual origin story for Iron Fist the vigilante, because it doesn't do either one terribly well. Other than coming to terms with his grief and clearing house in his company, Danny Rand did very little to help New York. The heroin trade was disrupted, but Gao's still around and probably still has the formula. And Danny NEEDS a costume, and it's silly that wasn't taken care of at all. He's a billionaire that was on the cover of People Magazine, for Christ's sake. A hoodie doesn't cut it!
+1
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Anyone remember the white kid from Forbidden Kingdom, the Jackie Chan + Jet Li movie? Apparently he had never done martial arts prior to that role. But he actually looked pretty good! And he was a good actor! To be fair, Finn Jones was given a shit hand. But he didn't exactly raise the level of the work.
Anyone remember the white kid from Forbidden Kingdom, the Jackie Chan + Jet Li movie? Apparently he had never done martial arts prior to that role. But he actually looked pretty good! And he was a good actor! To be fair, Finn Jones was given a shit hand. But he didn't exactly raise the level of the work.
There was only so much he could do, and the stunt choreographers were meant to be A+ and couldn't work with it, either. I think that main guy did the choreography for Marco Polo. They would have been better off with actual martial artists like Lewis Tan or Jessica Henwick as the lead, and putting IF in a costume, but they were fucked with the production schedule.
Gao even said in the first season of DD that she didn't care about the heroin when her plant was destroyed. That implies there's some other reason for selling the drugs.
That's right. So 3 seasons of a plot we know is a diversion. I wish they'd reveal something already, it's making the Hand tedious.
What are you talking about, they did reveal something, a whole lot of somethings.
Season 1 Daredevil didn't make it clear Madam Gao was The Hand, now we know she is, and not only that Nobu is not the only immortal, not by a long shot. So, in season 1 of Daredevil, Madam Gao was full on playing Kingpin because he definitely treated her as being separate from Nobu. Turns out, they were just factions of the same organization. Hell, chances are pretty good at this point that any of the leadership and their best ninjas/assassins/fighters are all fucking immortal. So we have some idea that there is at least 3 distinct factions to The Hand. Sprinkle on to that, that Madam Gao's and Bakuto's seemed to reveal that the pool of potential recruits is not just those of asian descent, but drawn from world wide - good luck trying to identify The Hand by ethnicity. Seems like the potential is there that the The Hand have a faction in just about every region, so Nobu (now Elektra?) and Madam Gao's factions were just making moves on Bakuto's territory this whole time during the events of Daredevil's seasons, essentially Japan and Chinese The Hand made a deal with Kingpin (and poisoned that deal from the outset) and moved on Bakuto's assets because they wanted powerful artifacts related to immortality and super soldiers so they could control even more from the shadows. We've also seen how they do their 'community outreach' to recruit young, probably how Nobu had a kid that Elektra offs working for him, just some cult indoctrinated kid from his region. Their hard on for Kun Lun is just another iron in the fire for them in their pursuit to rule from the shadows, another potential source of super soldier nonsense. They are kinda no different than Hydra in that respect, wonder if they worship some nasty entity from another dimension too...
MCU is just rife with secret organizations each trying to develop an ultimate soldier, eh?
That is a whole lot of what the Hand is, not motive. Why do they sell heroin? Why are we still watching them sell heroin when they told us from the start they don't give a shit about heroin?
I would bet money that their goal is to destroy K'un Lun and the other capitals of Heaven because whatever immortal bullshit they pulled damned their souls.
Or some other mystical mumbo jumbo, whatever, but they obviously have some ethos, some guiding need, that we haven't seen. All we've learned for certain over 3 seasons of shows is that it's not heroin. The details about how the Hand operates, their corporate structure, doesn't move the needle at all.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Anyone remember the white kid from Forbidden Kingdom, the Jackie Chan + Jet Li movie? Apparently he had never done martial arts prior to that role. But he actually looked pretty good! And he was a good actor! To be fair, Finn Jones was given a shit hand. But he didn't exactly raise the level of the work.
There was only so much he could do, and the stunt choreographers were meant to be A+ and couldn't work with it, either. I think that main guy did the choreography for Marco Polo. They would have been better off with actual martial artists like Lewis Tan or Jessica Henwick as the lead, and putting IF in a costume, but they were fucked with the production schedule.
Finn Jones was hired because he was "the best person for the job".
Let's think about that for a second. I'm not even talking about race right now. Does anyone here credibly think that they could not have found a great actor who also knew martial arts or could feasibly pull off the martial arts moves to help move the production along?
Why would you handicap yourself in such a way? It should have been part of the casting process, period. Someone should have been in that room during the audition, asking the actor to quickly learn choreography and see how he could do it. If they didn't, then that is a massive failure of production and casting, and speaks to basic competence. If they did and Jones still managed to pass muster, then they had the wrong people in the room. And if somehow the fight choreographers had the courage to point this out to the show runners, then they obviously didn't listen.
If you have 2 months to hire someone and begin production immediately, why would you not find someone whom you know can actually do the work? Learning a sequence of physical motions in a very short period of time is a skill. Everyone from dancers to martial artists knows how to do this, even for movements with which they are unfamiliar, because they do it every day. I am a mediocre martial artist at best, and you can put me in a room and I can learn an entire 2-minute form in under an hour. This isn't me bragging. This is me saying that it is a skill that I, a mediocre practitioner, have developed over time. And finding someone with that bare minimum of skill would save the production team countless time and energy that could have been dedicated elsewhere (like actually choreographing and shooting good fights).
Anyone remember the white kid from Forbidden Kingdom, the Jackie Chan + Jet Li movie? Apparently he had never done martial arts prior to that role. But he actually looked pretty good! And he was a good actor! To be fair, Finn Jones was given a shit hand. But he didn't exactly raise the level of the work.
There was only so much he could do, and the stunt choreographers were meant to be A+ and couldn't work with it, either. I think that main guy did the choreography for Marco Polo. They would have been better off with actual martial artists like Lewis Tan or Jessica Henwick as the lead, and putting IF in a costume, but they were fucked with the production schedule.
If anyone can teach an actor to perform basic martial arts in a short period of time, it's Jackie Chan and Jet Li.
+5
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
Oh yeah while I remember it
Episode 13
Watch me, a fucking Immortal Living Weapon, who has trained for 15 years under the most arduous circumstances and engaged in constant fighting, including multiple duels-to-the-death, RUN UP TO A MOTHERFUCKER AND KICK HIM AND KNOCK HIM DOWN. AND THEN RUN AWAY LIKE A LITTLE BITCH.
I was half-paying attention at that point because I knew how it was going to end, but I had to rewind and watch it again just to make sure I saw it correctly.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
That scene and then the thing where he can barely beat up one guy in a trailer and then the other guy in the hospital records room.
Great way to establish characterization in fight scenes, guys!
There are not enough L's and O's in the world.
Yeah, at this point I feel like I've said my piece, so I'll probably refrain from posting for a page or two. =P
Inquisitor77 on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Watch me, a fucking Immortal Living Weapon, who has trained for 15 years under the most arduous circumstances and engaged in fighting, RUN UP TO A MOTHERFUCKER AND KICK HIM AND KNOCK HIM DOWN. AND THEN RUN AWAY LIKE A LITTLE BITCH.
I was half-paying attention at that point because I knew how it was going to end, but I had to rewind and watch it again just to make sure I saw it correctly.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
That scene and then the thing where he can barely beat up one guy in a trailer and then the other guy in the hospital records room.
Great way to establish characterization in fight scenes, guys!
There are not enough L's and O's in the world.
Yeah, at this point I feel like I've said my piece, so I'll probably refrain from posting for a page or two. =P
I mean, establishing consistency of power is very important. And this show didn't do that by any stretch.
It was a fun show, still found it more entertaining than half the shows on Netflix, and 90% of shows on syndicated TV. But this was a rushed show, and it's glaringly obvious. It can't make up its mind if it wants to be a set up for Defenders, or an actual origin story for Iron Fist the vigilante, because it doesn't do either one terribly well. Other than coming to terms with his grief and clearing house in his company, Danny Rand did very little to help New York. The heroin trade was disrupted, but Gao's still around and probably still has the formula. And Danny NEEDS a costume, and it's silly that wasn't taken care of at all. He's a billionaire that was on the cover of People Magazine, for Christ's sake. A hoodie doesn't cut it!
I don' think Danny did any real damage
against the Hand. What did he do? He destroyed one drug lab in New York with the help of the Hatchet Men. He destroyed one drug lab in China. He captured Madame Gao, who was then captured by Bakuto. He helped Harold and Joy cut off the Hand's access to Rand's resources. He defeated Bakuto.
OK, so what's to stop the Hand from coming back the day after Danny leaves to put the screws to the Meachums again? Bakuto's death didn't matter since he wasn't a top leader and they can just bring him back. All the Hand's lower level followers are still around. Those assassins in the tournament are still around. Bakuto's teenagers with attitude have probably just been moved to another compound. There's absolutely no safeguard preventing the Hand from doing to Ward and Joy what they did to Harold. And we already know that Gao is free by the end so they're right back to where they started.
Posts
It does with the right person, that's why LC worked. They got the right person who knew that perspective and had the talent to pull it off. Sure, it wasn't perfect but they did so much right. Nor should it be bad for Marvel to look around for Asian show runners, American and/or aboard for this type of property. You don't get someone who doesn't know shit about this stuff, like Scott Buck, you get someone like Cheo Hodari Coker or Melissa Rosenberg* from an Asian perspective.
The reason why we get shit like watered down Bushido, Danny's monks and generic chi is because they weren't trying hard enough to make this work. What I'm interested in why they managed to do this correctly with JJ and LC, while on IF they dropped the ball hard. Did they bother searching for talent like that? Were they all turned away because Loeb didn't want Batman Begins? What's going on here?
Considering what a third rail with racial politics IF is, this should have been a high priority for whoever they chose for a show runner.
* huh, she's another alumni from Dexter
I'm pretty sure making up generic Asianish culture for people living in modern Earth is going to be more offensive than a 3/4th arsed attempt at using Japanese and not-Tibetan culture.
People would likely call that Orientalism, which seems mostly to be the wrong term.
A few things work in this: I actually like
I liked the
I like
I host a podcast about movies.
Depends how they do it*. Is Wakanda in Black Panther going to have a similar problem?
* a third option is making K'un-Lun settled by Asian immigrants centuries ago, I guess
Some of these nits being picked must be dislocating shoulders from having to reach so hard.
In areas where the director/editor did really screw up, that scene where an 'unconscious' body moved its wrists together to be tied up really exemplifies things that should have been removed from the frame during shooting or editing, just like the magic backpack in the pilot.
MWO: Adamski
Gonna have to wait until I'm not jailed anymore, doge.
End spoilers
Cons: The Corporate stuff, just because it didn't make any fucking sense. It'd be like if you randomly included Phone a Friend as an option during a trial in DD. If you're not going to bother making it coherent, just leave it out. The fights were uneven.
Also what year is this supposed to be taking place in? Because I'm pretty sure it directly contradicts itself unnecessarily there.
Ep3 spoiler with tiny reference to a later conversation around 11 or so
199*
But he also has an I-Pod which debuted in late 2001 although it might be a 2nd generation 2002 model.
And he's been gone "about" 15 years.
I guess the 199* could maybe be a birth year. If he was born in 1991 or 92, was 10 when they crashed in 2001 or 2002 and returned in 2016 or 2017 or so. But that also means Joy not only graduated law school and passed the bar but was well established and saw her entry into a legal career at Rand as something sufficiently in the past to not be seen as recent in her discussion with her brother.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
The fact that he couldn't even follow bakuto through some basic tai-chi-looking stuff and that he looks like a snowboarder in the summer and not a fighter and they have to cut the shit out of everything to drop him out and his stuntperson in ...those are issues.
I host a podcast about movies.
What weird I've noticed is that nowhere in the first few episodes do they talk about the Avengers, HYDRA, aliens etc. The guy is a goober who doesn't know anything recent, yet those subjects don't get a sentence of acknowledgement.
is both poorly done and just an awful take on the character.
That's a really bad comparison, since "bushido" isn't an acronym, and Wing isn't a layperson who just heard about Bushido in passing.
And as we said, the problem isn't simply that these mistakes happen. The problem is that there's no indication that the creators even care.
What exactly does Iron Fist explore that other action movies haven't done a lot better? What new concepts or insights does Iron Fist introduce, other than "he can punch really hard -- but only when he concentrates"?
You might just want to get a Asian Historical Consultant instead of a writer who might know some odd fact because of his race.
well, a japanese speaker would literally be saying "bushidodo" to make the same mistake, which is the japanese word for "fluffy extinct bird"
(Yeah, I do puns. bad puns. They only kind of puns)
I host a podcast about movies.
That, too. But I don't think that'd be enough to overcome the fact the show runner is Scott Buck. From what I've read he doesn't really give those subjects deep thought, y'know?
It's kind of what they did for Dr. Strange. Other than some mentions of chakras and qi, I'm pretty sure they never mentioned any real Buddhist/Hindu/Taoist philosophy/myths.
And don't get me started on the "painful flashbacks". It's like watching someone who thinks "serious acting" always looks like you are supposed to be taking a really difficult shit. Oh no, you're thinking about a painful memory - time to make your sphincter-flexing face!
He'll likely get a soft reboot/more focused in Defenders. What they use there they can springboard onto S2, if IF gets renewed. Which I want, but it's vital they get the proper production time, larger budget and a new, competent show runner.
I don't know, there are parts where I can see some good acting there. I'm willing to give Finn a chance with Defenders in a production that's less chaotic. He's not exactly being given the best material to work with here, and while he's not as talented as say, Jessica Henwick, solid material should fill in the holes in his acting. Or he'll sink like a stone, then they should recast him asap.
Not sure if I should spoiler this but to be on the safe side...
The easiest way to make Danny Rand unique as a character would be by focusing on his experiences in K'un Lun. Which is exactly what we didn't see.
The fact that Danny abandons the city has no weight because we never see much of the people he's abandoning.
I was trying to imagine Lewis Tan in the lead role, but I haven't seen enough of him to know if he could pull off the "all American boy next door." But then I realized that someone who disappeared from from the planet when he was 10 and spent the past 15 years in a mystical city wouldn't act like an "all American boy next door" anymore.
This. My criticisms of this show are more fundamental than an attempt to argue that "this is racist appropriation and they should've fixed it so I'm going to bitch about everything else to prove how shitty this show is until I get what I want".
We have no basis with which to understand the Danny Rand character at all. It doesn't matter what race he is in this story because he's an empty vessel with no motivation or context of his own. He is shown as a fish out of water, except he behaves in such a way as to indicate that he has no understanding of American customs at all, except that he clearly does because he left when he was 10, not when he was 5, and he has a million super-specific memories of his childhood that are supposed to help prove his identity. So he just comes across as an obnoxious douche.
We have no idea how he was trained beyond getting beaten by sticks and being randomly admonished with cliche Oriental wisdomisms. We have no idea how he grew up beyond "funny" stories of how he was a wascally wabbit in K'un L'un (which, to me, indicates that he didn't lose much of his American identity?). We have no context with which to place his erratic behavior - breaking into buildings, ignoring armed guards, demanding that people accept him for who he says he is without any proof whatsoever, etc.
And then when we are asked to sympathize with him, we have no idea what his motivation actually is. He just does shit. Because he wants to? Except when he doesn't? Whatever. Like nearly every single other character in the show, he does shit to move the story along, rather than as an active force driving it forward. It's jarringly bad storytelling and points to fundamental issues with the script.
What are you talking about, they did reveal something, a whole lot of somethings.
MCU is just rife with secret organizations each trying to develop an ultimate soldier, eh?
And this Friday, we get the Power Rangers reboot:
It just makes Marvel's casting seem even more backwards by comparison.
You know a Netflix show that the writers should have watched before making this?
Except Madame Gao
Seriously, the reason why this show feels so different is that the other shows have a specific theme and genre they were paying homage to. DD was hardcore crime drama, JJ was psychological thriller, LC was blacksploitation. Iron Fist SHOULD have been part Hong Kong action and part Wuxia action, and in the end it wasn't either of those. Even the tournament was lame half the time, and most of the time Jones was fighting, they made the lighting suck so you couldn't tell how bad it looked.
Like many who watched this, I thought both Ward and Gao stole the show whenever they were doing something. Both of them had great story arcs, which I believe were better than Danny Rand's. Harold was alright, but we already had a corrupt corporate CEO with a short fuse, and Harold just felt like a Kingpin Lite because of it. Colleen performed better action than Jones, and Claire is really starting to become the glue that keeps these shows together.
It was a fun show, still found it more entertaining than half the shows on Netflix, and 90% of shows on syndicated TV. But this was a rushed show, and it's glaringly obvious. It can't make up its mind if it wants to be a set up for Defenders, or an actual origin story for Iron Fist the vigilante, because it doesn't do either one terribly well. Other than coming to terms with his grief and clearing house in his company, Danny Rand did very little to help New York. The heroin trade was disrupted, but Gao's still around and probably still has the formula. And Danny NEEDS a costume, and it's silly that wasn't taken care of at all. He's a billionaire that was on the cover of People Magazine, for Christ's sake. A hoodie doesn't cut it!
There was only so much he could do, and the stunt choreographers were meant to be A+ and couldn't work with it, either. I think that main guy did the choreography for Marco Polo. They would have been better off with actual martial artists like Lewis Tan or Jessica Henwick as the lead, and putting IF in a costume, but they were fucked with the production schedule.
That is a whole lot of what the Hand is, not motive. Why do they sell heroin? Why are we still watching them sell heroin when they told us from the start they don't give a shit about heroin?
Finn Jones was hired because he was "the best person for the job".
Let's think about that for a second. I'm not even talking about race right now. Does anyone here credibly think that they could not have found a great actor who also knew martial arts or could feasibly pull off the martial arts moves to help move the production along?
Why would you handicap yourself in such a way? It should have been part of the casting process, period. Someone should have been in that room during the audition, asking the actor to quickly learn choreography and see how he could do it. If they didn't, then that is a massive failure of production and casting, and speaks to basic competence. If they did and Jones still managed to pass muster, then they had the wrong people in the room. And if somehow the fight choreographers had the courage to point this out to the show runners, then they obviously didn't listen.
If you have 2 months to hire someone and begin production immediately, why would you not find someone whom you know can actually do the work? Learning a sequence of physical motions in a very short period of time is a skill. Everyone from dancers to martial artists knows how to do this, even for movements with which they are unfamiliar, because they do it every day. I am a mediocre martial artist at best, and you can put me in a room and I can learn an entire 2-minute form in under an hour. This isn't me bragging. This is me saying that it is a skill that I, a mediocre practitioner, have developed over time. And finding someone with that bare minimum of skill would save the production team countless time and energy that could have been dedicated elsewhere (like actually choreographing and shooting good fights).
If anyone can teach an actor to perform basic martial arts in a short period of time, it's Jackie Chan and Jet Li.
Episode 13
I was half-paying attention at that point because I knew how it was going to end, but I had to rewind and watch it again just to make sure I saw it correctly.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
That scene and then the thing where he can barely beat up one guy in a trailer and then the other guy in the hospital records room.
Great way to establish characterization in fight scenes, guys!
There are not enough L's and O's in the world.
Yeah, at this point I feel like I've said my piece, so I'll probably refrain from posting for a page or two. =P
I don' think Danny did any real damage
OK, so what's to stop the Hand from coming back the day after Danny leaves to put the screws to the Meachums again? Bakuto's death didn't matter since he wasn't a top leader and they can just bring him back. All the Hand's lower level followers are still around. Those assassins in the tournament are still around. Bakuto's teenagers with attitude have probably just been moved to another compound. There's absolutely no safeguard preventing the Hand from doing to Ward and Joy what they did to Harold. And we already know that Gao is free by the end so they're right back to where they started.