I'm partial to the white and gold one myself, but it really only works in the comics. It would be patently ridiculous in live action.
Something like his tracksuit from the Immortal run could work, though.
That would definitely work if, in the Defenders, Danny finds out how Murdock got his start as a crime fighter and goes "fine I'll just do that I guess."
Iron Fist needs to have a "compression/athletic" style shirt with a V cut, billowy pants (nothing crazy but obviously loose for freedom of movement) the same shoes Colleen gave him at the beginning, and then a dark yellow-ish "mask" with flowing ties off the back.
Shirt is dark green with a cool "pattern or texture" pants black or darker green, yellow sash and yellow mask.
Done.
Dont have to go with the huge collar or crazy deep "V" cut on the shirt, just something that looks like its built for movement and quickness. Where as Daredevil's suit is built for brawling and being all up in the shit.
+1
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Anyone who thinks that the show sucks because it actively avoided "the PC police" has put more thought into the show than the people in charge of actually making it. That's the real problem.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
It could have gone with Asian Danny and fixed a lot of it's problems, but for those who aren't up to date with the comics, Marvel comics tried to do some progressive stuff and allowed feminist and SJW writers do some comics and it backfired so badly that Marvel had to shut down many of the comics and scale back the political messages in their main comics.
Okay, but
None of what you just said actually happened.
The most "SJW" comics in Marvel are consistently the highest selling ones.
Not according to a lot of figures. Angela: Queen of Hel lost more than half it's readers in 7 issues, especially when it's full of stupid things like this:
Anyone who thinks that the show sucks because it actively avoided "the PC police" has put more thought into the show than the people in charge of actually making it. That's the real problem.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
You have no idea what the comics are like, but you're prepared to claim that everyone who likes the show and is comparing them to parts in the comics is lying about reading the comics.
oookay
+8
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Hey so on the note of Danny Rand from the comics, can anyone describe him for me? My time with Marvel Comics didn't involve reading anything with Iron Fist, and something about the show didn't strike me as being genuinely inspired.
Anyone who thinks that the show sucks because it actively avoided "the PC police" has put more thought into the show than the people in charge of actually making it. That's the real problem.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
I love the comics and enjoyed the show. I defintely don't think it was perfect, but I never considered not watching the rest of it at any point.
And I, a huge kung fu movie fanboy, actually enjoyed many if not most of the fight scenes. I can definitely pick out points where choreography or cinematography of them was off base, or where Jones specifically couldn't quite get the job done, but I've watched worse many times.
But then, I'm kinda notorious for liking liking things.
I think there's something up with "the dragon." He says "It wasn't what he expected," and there's a point where he is put in a situation where he may have to hurt an innocent that he says, "I have been here before" with a flash to the cave.
My guess, "the dragon" isn't some big, nasty lizard but something akin to the child weapon glimpsed in that Daredevil episode. One of the modern comics revisions to the character is his growing realization that Kun Lun was actually a pretty fucked up place run by bad people. From the abuse of him as a child to Danny and Davos essentially being repressed man children - both of which Claire calls out in her role as moral center/audience surrogate - I think the sequel is going to go the route of Danny realizing that while his decision to run was selfish and damaging, staying in his assigned role was also not the right path.
+1
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I think there's something up with "the dragon." He says "It wasn't what he expected," and there's a point where he is put in a situation where he may have to hurt an innocent that he says, "I have been here before" with a flash to the cave.
My guess, "the dragon" isn't some big, nasty lizard but something akin to the child weapon glimpsed in that Daredevil episode. One of the modern comics revisions to the character is his growing realization that Kun Lun was actually a pretty fucked up place run by bad people. From the abuse of him as a child to Danny and Davos essentially being repressed man children - both of which Claire calls out in her role as moral center/audience surrogate - I think the sequel is going to go the route of Danny realizing that while his decision to run was selfish and damaging, staying in his assigned role was also not the right path.
I don't think it's that complex at all.
It's more along the lines of the cave Luke goes into when training with Yoda.
Hey so on the note of Danny Rand from the comics, can anyone describe him for me? My time with Marvel Comics didn't involve reading anything with Iron Fist, and something about the show didn't strike me as being genuinely inspired.
Like all comics, it changes a little from run to run. At first Danny was kind of stiff and bent on revenge against Harold Meachum, but had a change of heart. He softened a lot when he started working with the Heroes for Hire, and softened a whole hell of a lot over his long friendship and working relationship with Luke Cage. In more current runs in the comics he's kind of goofy and a little out of touch, but generally a nice guy who tries to do good and is enthusiastic about being both a hero and the Iron Fist and he's been through enough that he's fairly humble.
Hey so on the note of Danny Rand from the comics, can anyone describe him for me? My time with Marvel Comics didn't involve reading anything with Iron Fist, and something about the show didn't strike me as being genuinely inspired.
Danny's been around for [checks Marvel Database just to be sure] going on 43 years now. He's been written by a lot of people in that time, so his characterization has varied a bit. He started out a single-minded, vengeance obsessed badass, who came back from K'un Lun immediately after his ascension to Iron Fist to avenge the murder of his parents, which was a lot more cut and dried at the time. It was an obvious homage/lift from kung fu cinema, and he was being used to build the roster of that side of Marvel Comics at the time. Like a lot of those characters, he was kinda one note until he got his own book later down the line.
Then he hooked up with everyone's favorite bulletproof black guy and played the role of well-meaning but clueless rich white guy for a couple of decades. The whole fish out of water deal was pretty essential to his character, and he always tried to do the right thing but almost never knew what that was without Luke, Misty or Colleen telling him. But he ended up with a decent sense of humor and a good deal of humilty, which still kinda define the character in some ways.
In the last decade or so, he's really turned to the spiritual and has kind of become a contemporary of people like Dr. Strange in terms of mysticism in some ways. Very zen master in his approaches to thing.
Occasionally you still get some really terrible, out of character writing for him. At one point they made him back into a playboy womanizer with no soul for a couple of issues, apparently wanting to read more into the power fantasy of superhuman kung fu billioniare than had been there previously.
Can I add really quick that while Danny is kinda boring and doesn't go anywhere, Joy Meachum is by far the worst. It's not that her acting is terrible, but the character is the most inconsistent character I've ever seen. The amount of times her moral compass flips in one season of this show is STAGGERING. It's like she's a lemming, and just kinda plays along with whomever she's with at the time, then feels really bad about it shortly after.
I was kinda waiting for her manic personality to be explained through brainwashing or a mental disorder... never really happens. And she's the BEST member of the Meachum family, which is terrifying.
i thought that was sort of the point. she basically goes along with whomever else is in the room, and really isn't an independent thinker.
i mean, I dunno if that's a good thing, but it seems intentional.
Yeah, that's not a bad (if generous) way to interpret the character. It doesn't hurt that Jessica Stroup does a great job with poor material (much like everyone else not named Finn Jones). To be honest they could've made a show entirely about the Meachums and left Danny Rand and the supernatural stuff out and it would've been a decent family drama.
You could have a decent movie script about Ward going slowly insane while being ordered about by his insane zombie father. I actually think him and his story was the best part of the show.
As for Joy, I think her super flexible moral compass was the point. She's introduced as the "nice" one, but she's actually a far worse person than Ward.
Ward's trapped in a life he doesn't want and is playing a role. The entire time he's doing the asshole CEO schtick for the secret cameras, he's secretly embezzling funds for his escape. He's doing what he has to, but he's not fooling himself that he is a good person for doing so. He just wants out.
The show does a really good job with the way she's set up. She's constantly doing fucked up shit to Danny, usually on someone else's orders and against her moral compass, but she does it anyway. Since she's the nice one and the one that Danny and Meachum's care about the most, so it takes a while to sink it that she's actually a really horrible person.
It could have gone with Asian Danny and fixed a lot of it's problems, but for those who aren't up to date with the comics, Marvel comics tried to do some progressive stuff and allowed feminist and SJW writers do some comics and it backfired so badly that Marvel had to shut down many of the comics and scale back the political messages in their main comics.
Okay, but
None of what you just said actually happened.
The most "SJW" comics in Marvel are consistently the highest selling ones.
Not according to a lot of figures. Angela: Queen of Hel lost more than half it's readers in 7 issues, especially when it's full of stupid things like this:
Marvel is at the tail end of their last line-wide renumbering and new series push. That one example is part of about 8-10 comics that people raged against as "SJWs and feminists taking over" and with the exception of Angela Queen of Hel and Mockingbird the others are the top sellers for Marvel.
Ms Marvel (A Pakistani-American teenage girl), Spider-Gwen (If Gwen Stacey became Spider-Man), Mighty Thor (Jane Foster as Thor) and Sam Wilson (Sam Wilson becomes Captain America) are some of the most consistent among the top spots for Marvel superhero books. Even though they manage to pull all the assholes out of the woodwork to rage against them.
And that's looking at both Comichron and Diamond Distributors.
The most "SJW" comics in Marvel are consistently the highest selling ones. Captain Marvel, Ms Marvel, Black Panther, Spider-Gwen, Mighty Thor, Captain America: Sam Wilson, these all regularly break the top 100 sales lists each month.
I don't disagree with your larger point but breaking the top 100 sales list isn't a meaningful accomplishment for a Marvel book.
It could have gone with Asian Danny and fixed a lot of it's problems, but for those who aren't up to date with the comics, Marvel comics tried to do some progressive stuff and allowed feminist and SJW writers do some comics and it backfired so badly that Marvel had to shut down many of the comics and scale back the political messages in their main comics.
Okay, but
None of what you just said actually happened.
The most "SJW" comics in Marvel are consistently the highest selling ones.
Not according to a lot of figures. Angela: Queen of Hel lost more than half it's readers in 7 issues, especially when it's full of stupid things like this:
It could have gone with Asian Danny and fixed a lot of it's problems, but for those who aren't up to date with the comics, Marvel comics tried to do some progressive stuff and allowed feminist and SJW writers do some comics and it backfired so badly that Marvel had to shut down many of the comics and scale back the political messages in their main comics.
Okay, but
None of what you just said actually happened.
The most "SJW" comics in Marvel are consistently the highest selling ones.
Not according to a lot of figures. Angela: Queen of Hel lost more than half it's readers in 7 issues, especially when it's full of stupid things like this:
Marvel is at the tail end of their last line-wide renumbering and new series push. That one example is part of about 8-10 comics that people raged against as "SJWs and feminists taking over" and with the exception of Angela Queen of Hel and Mockingbird the others are the top sellers for Marvel.
Ms Marvel (A Pakistani-American teenage girl), Spider-Gwen (If Gwen Stacey became Spider-Man), Mighty Thor (Jane Foster as Thor) and Sam Wilson (Sam Wilson becomes Captain America) are some of the most consistent among the top spots for Marvel superhero books. Even though they manage to pull all the assholes out of the woodwork to rage against them.
And that's looking at both Comichron and Diamond Distributors.
"Social justice" has been part of Marvel's brand since at least the '60s, and you could argue that that tradition goes back to Captain America fighting the Nazis years before America entered WWII. For a long time, the desire to tackled "social issues" - albeit in the awkward and dated way you get in decades old comics written by well-meaning white dudes - was the defining editorial difference between Marvel and DC.
+9
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Anyone who thinks that the show sucks because it actively avoided "the PC police" has put more thought into the show than the people in charge of actually making it. That's the real problem.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
You have no idea what the comics are like, but you're prepared to claim that everyone who likes the show and is comparing them to parts in the comics is lying about reading the comics.
oookay
There are these words called qualifiers. And I called out my ignorance with the comics to make it clear that I wasn't speaking for everyone, so thanks for reiterating that point.
But oh shit, you sure showed me son.
I don't think this show has given any semblance of respect to its origins. I'm perfectly fine arguing that point over and over again. I'm getting really tired of the generalization that people who dislike the show only do so because they are "social justice warriors" and have ulterior motives. I have made almost no mention of the fact that Danny "should have been Asian" short of pointing out that yes, the source is problematic.
If you're unwilling to engage in the debate beyond stating that you liked the show, then that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I'm getting really tired of those of you who like the show and feel like you need to just lash out when someone makes an argument you don't like.
You think the show did the comics justice? Fine. Prove me wrong. Show me where it did just that.
In the meantime, when I say that the fight scenes suck I'm going to point out the 78 cuts in that fight scene with the random fucking guy in the hospital clerk room as one of the worst fight scenes I've seen in a long time. Not to mention a complete lack of character consistency for "the Iron Fist". For a show which is supposed to be based on the martial arts craze of the 70's onwards whose main character is supposed to be one of the best fighters on the planet, I think that's unacceptable.
+1
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Anyone who thinks that the show sucks because it actively avoided "the PC police" has put more thought into the show than the people in charge of actually making it. That's the real problem.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
I love the comics and enjoyed the show. I defintely don't think it was perfect, but I never considered not watching the rest of it at any point.
And I, a huge kung fu movie fanboy, actually enjoyed many if not most of the fight scenes. I can definitely pick out points where choreography or cinematography of them was off base, or where Jones specifically couldn't quite get the job done, but I've watched worse many times.
But then, I'm kinda notorious for liking liking things.
I don't mind that you liked the show. If you did, then great! My point is that even if it was enjoyable, it didn't do the sources justice. Maybe that's a strong opinion to have, but I feel like it's justifiable.
Is it your opinion that the show sucked because the social justice warriors made the show runners feel all super sensitive and it fucked with their ability to do their jobs? I'm guessing maybe not? Either way, I'm not making an assumption about all of your other opinions about this show by lumping you in with literally everyone else who liked it.
0
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
In the meantime, when I say that the fight scenes suck I'm going to point out the 78 cuts in that fight scene with the random fucking guy in the hospital clerk room as one of the worst fight scenes I've seen in a long time. Not to mention a complete lack of character consistency for "the Iron Fist". For a show which is supposed to be based on the martial arts craze of the 70's onwards whose main character is supposed to be one of the best fighters on the planet, I think that's unacceptable.
One of my favorite things about Daredevil was that just because he hit a dude it didn't mean that dude stayed down for the count. A lot of the time DD had to put work into every single thug he fought, and it made sense because his power set doesn't include enhanced strength. He knows how to fight but is still just a guy. And when he took a hit, it actually did count and hurt him.
In Luke Cage, there was very little in the way of having him struggle in fights. They showed him the same level of respect for his powers that Daredevil got. It was all rooted so very damn well, it was amazing.
Iron Fist kind of occupies a space between those two, in terms of how hard they hit and what they feel when getting hit. Or, he's supposed to. Instead, it was an inconsistent mess of sometimes a couple hits puts someone down, and sometimes he can't keep a simple thug down at all. That was a tremendous let-down because all these shows up to this point did a good job demonstrating the powers and talents these people wield.
Anyone who thinks that the show sucks because it actively avoided "the PC police" has put more thought into the show than the people in charge of actually making it. That's the real problem.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
I love the comics and enjoyed the show. I defintely don't think it was perfect, but I never considered not watching the rest of it at any point.
And I, a huge kung fu movie fanboy, actually enjoyed many if not most of the fight scenes. I can definitely pick out points where choreography or cinematography of them was off base, or where Jones specifically couldn't quite get the job done, but I've watched worse many times.
But then, I'm kinda notorious for liking liking things.
I don't mind that you liked the show. If you did, then great! My point is that even if it was enjoyable, it didn't do the sources justice. Maybe that's a strong opinion to have, but I feel like it's justifiable.
Is it your opinion that the show sucked because the social justice warriors made the show runners feel all super sensitive and it fucked with their ability to do their jobs? I'm guessing maybe not? Either way, I'm not making an assumption about all of your other opinions about this show by lumping you in with literally everyone else who liked it.
I don't think the whole sturm and drang over the fact that Danny is and always has been a white dude really had any impact on the quality of the show directly. I would hazard a guess that it being the lowest rated thing ever to exist on Rotten Tomatoes probably has something to do with the environment surrounding it before release, but most of the things I would categorize as flaws are pretty clearly owned by the show and not by some shady cabal of people trying to ruin everything for the sake of their own proportionate representation.
I'm actually working on putting my thoughts about the fight scenes specifically in order. Because I had a very different takeaway from them than others seem to have, especially the early ones.
It could have gone with Asian Danny and fixed a lot of it's problems, but for those who aren't up to date with the comics, Marvel comics tried to do some progressive stuff and allowed feminist and SJW writers do some comics and it backfired so badly that Marvel had to shut down many of the comics and scale back the political messages in their main comics.
Okay, but
None of what you just said actually happened.
The most "SJW" comics in Marvel are consistently the highest selling ones.
Not according to a lot of figures. Angela: Queen of Hel lost more than half it's readers in 7 issues, especially when it's full of stupid things like this:
Marvel is at the tail end of their last line-wide renumbering and new series push. That one example is part of about 8-10 comics that people raged against as "SJWs and feminists taking over" and with the exception of Angela Queen of Hel and Mockingbird the others are the top sellers for Marvel.
Ms Marvel (A Pakistani-American teenage girl), Spider-Gwen (If Gwen Stacey became Spider-Man), Mighty Thor (Jane Foster as Thor) and Sam Wilson (Sam Wilson becomes Captain America) are some of the most consistent among the top spots for Marvel superhero books. Even though they manage to pull all the assholes out of the woodwork to rage against them.
And that's looking at both Comichron and Diamond Distributors.
Honestly, those things weren't the things that most of the fanboys where getting pissed off about. It wasn't that Ms. Marvel was a Muslim girl, or Spider-Gwen was what if Spiderman was a woman, because most people were cool with that. It was stuff like M.O.D.A.A.K, which was Donald Trump becomes M.O.D.O.K and starts throwing Mexicans out of the country and starts building a wall until Captain America stops him. It was characters throwing shit like mansplaining in causal dialog or having characters that had no reason to be racist, homophobic, or misogynistic douches suddenly are. Hardcore fans were upset that story was being sacrificed for agendas, not that diversity was being thrown in to comics.
Captain America stopped white nationalists from starting a race war with Mexico like 5 years ago. It's not like his stance on being a dick about someone's skin color is a new thing.
Anyone who thinks that the show sucks because it actively avoided "the PC police" has put more thought into the show than the people in charge of actually making it. That's the real problem.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
You have no idea what the comics are like, but you're prepared to claim that everyone who likes the show and is comparing them to parts in the comics is lying about reading the comics.
oookay
There are these words called qualifiers. And I called out my ignorance with the comics to make it clear that I wasn't speaking for everyone, so thanks for reiterating that point.
But oh shit, you sure showed me son.
I don't think this show has given any semblance of respect to its origins. I'm perfectly fine arguing that point over and over again. I'm getting really tired of the generalization that people who dislike the show only do so because they are "social justice warriors" and have ulterior motives. I have made almost no mention of the fact that Danny "should have been Asian" short of pointing out that yes, the source is problematic.
If you're unwilling to engage in the debate beyond stating that you liked the show, then that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I'm getting really tired of those of you who like the show and feel like you need to just lash out when someone makes an argument you don't like.
You think the show did the comics justice? Fine. Prove me wrong. Show me where it did just that.
In the meantime, when I say that the fight scenes suck I'm going to point out the 78 cuts in that fight scene with the random fucking guy in the hospital clerk room as one of the worst fight scenes I've seen in a long time. Not to mention a complete lack of character consistency for "the Iron Fist". For a show which is supposed to be based on the martial arts craze of the 70's onwards whose main character is supposed to be one of the best fighters on the planet, I think that's unacceptable.
Oh don't give me that bullshit, I engaged with you about this show for several pages already.
Secondly I didn't engage in the argument about whether Danny should have been asian, nor did I call anyone a "Social Justice Warrior", so take that to someone who actually is trying to pull that shit.
I'm not going to go back and quote myself for the last 7 pages of discussion. I've been talking about what I like and don't like about the show pretty consistently though without saying that people who dislike it "don't understand the source material" or are wrong for disliking it. Nor do I make personal assumptions about the people who I disagree with. But please, keep filling your posts with "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" and assumptions about people you disagree with.
It could have gone with Asian Danny and fixed a lot of it's problems, but for those who aren't up to date with the comics, Marvel comics tried to do some progressive stuff and allowed feminist and SJW writers do some comics and it backfired so badly that Marvel had to shut down many of the comics and scale back the political messages in their main comics.
Okay, but
None of what you just said actually happened.
The most "SJW" comics in Marvel are consistently the highest selling ones.
Not according to a lot of figures. Angela: Queen of Hel lost more than half it's readers in 7 issues, especially when it's full of stupid things like this:
who?
It was suppose to be a story about The Superhero Formerly Known As Thor, Odenson's lost sister Angela. She came to light during the Original Sins storyline.
If you're unwilling to engage in the debate beyond stating that you liked the show, then that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I'm getting really tired of those of you who like the show and feel like you need to just lash out when someone makes an argument you don't like.
that particular sword cuts both ways. someone arguing in favor of the show is no cause for you to lash out.
It could have gone with Asian Danny and fixed a lot of it's problems, but for those who aren't up to date with the comics, Marvel comics tried to do some progressive stuff and allowed feminist and SJW writers do some comics and it backfired so badly that Marvel had to shut down many of the comics and scale back the political messages in their main comics.
Okay, but
None of what you just said actually happened.
The most "SJW" comics in Marvel are consistently the highest selling ones.
Not according to a lot of figures. Angela: Queen of Hel lost more than half it's readers in 7 issues, especially when it's full of stupid things like this:
Marvel is at the tail end of their last line-wide renumbering and new series push. That one example is part of about 8-10 comics that people raged against as "SJWs and feminists taking over" and with the exception of Angela Queen of Hel and Mockingbird the others are the top sellers for Marvel.
Ms Marvel (A Pakistani-American teenage girl), Spider-Gwen (If Gwen Stacey became Spider-Man), Mighty Thor (Jane Foster as Thor) and Sam Wilson (Sam Wilson becomes Captain America) are some of the most consistent among the top spots for Marvel superhero books. Even though they manage to pull all the assholes out of the woodwork to rage against them.
And that's looking at both Comichron and Diamond Distributors.
"Social justice" has been part of Marvel's brand since at least the '60s, and you could argue that that tradition goes back to Captain America fighting the Nazis years before America entered WWII. For a long time, the desire to tackled "social issues" - albeit in the awkward and dated way you get in decades old comics written by well-meaning white dudes - was the defining editorial difference between Marvel and DC.
Also, the X-Men, which were pretty explicit allegories for oppressed minorities.
Captain America stopped white nationalists from starting a race war with Mexico like 5 years ago. It's not like his stance on being a dick about someone's skin color is a new thing.
You missed the point. It isn't about Captain standing up for American values, it's that the comic just blatantly goes and makes Trump a cartoony villain just because they can. It's just political statements of "We hate Trump" that readers are done with because we hear that all the time in real life, we don't need it in comics when we are trying to escape from the bad, vile shit of real world for a few minutes.
Captain America stopped white nationalists from starting a race war with Mexico like 5 years ago. It's not like his stance on being a dick about someone's skin color is a new thing.
Captain America discovered that President Not Nixon was secretly the Hatemonger - i.e. literal Hitler - back in the 70s.
I was talking about this at work last night and part of the failure of this show was the PC shit outside the show took it's balls. It could have gone with Asian Danny and fixed a lot of it's problems, but for those who aren't up to date with the comics, Marvel comics tried to do some progressive stuff and allowed feminist and SJW writers do some comics and it backfired so badly that Marvel had to shut down many of the comics and scale back the political messages in their main comics. So Marvel wasn't about to repeat that mistake by making Danny Asian.
Do you have a source for this that isn't Brietbart?
Along with the huge successes of the Marvel cinematic universe and other marketing decisions, the creative choice to diversify seems to be paying off for the company.
Marvel controls around 40 percent of comic book market share in the U.S., according to the pop culture website ICv2. Also, the overall U.S. comic book market has grown in recent years: sales of comics were around $579 million in 2015, a year-on-year increase of 7.17 percent, according to figures compiled by comics history site Comichron.
Most of the sales problems at Marvel have more to do with their constant rebooting of titles to push the sale of "Issue #1", along with too much "event fatigue" where Marvel focuses on having a universe wide crossover in the model of "Civil War." The problem with the first one is that it's incredibly difficult for people to keep track of the different titles. The problem with the second is that it undermines the autonomy of individual writers to tell their own story, because now they have to find a way to tie their story into the main event (often, clumsily so). There's also the fact that Marvel is pretty much abandoning the X-Men and Fantastic Four franchises due to losing the movie rights.
So Marvel wasn't about to repeat that mistake by making Danny Asian.
These two things are not comparable.
First of all, fans got really upset during clone saga when Peter Parker got replaced with Ben Reilly, even though Reilly was a clone who was physically identical to Peter in every way. OTOH, Spider-Gwen and Miles Morales have been incredibly popular. Miles is pretty much the only that Marvel decided to keep after destroying the entire Ultimate Universe. "Spider-Gwen" was the #9 most popular book series for 2015. Not just the #9 most popular for Marvel, but the #9 most popular for all comics in general. Most people are okay with seeing SJW-versions of Spider-Man so long as the original Peter Parker doesn't get killed off, because they have an attachment to Peter Parker.
Now, as for an Asian Danny Rand, there's two things to consider: First, Danny Rand does not have the same following as any of the other characters who got replaced. Not even close. Second, Asian Danny Rand would still be Danny Rand. You can still have the same backstory and character. Him being white was a way to make him acceptable to 1970s comic readers, but it's not an integral aspect to his character. It's the same reason why "Karate Kid" in DC is drawn as Caucasian, even though he grew up in Japan as the son of a Japanese Warlord.
But then they also didn't want to deal with the backlash of bring blamed for Cultural Appropriation like Doctor Strange did. So they stayed as far as they could away from anything that could be called CA, which means we get a Danny who doesn't care about K'un Lun, generic monks and ninjas, and watered down aspects of things like the Bushido and Chi. They knew they couldn't completely escape it but they tried to stay as far from it as possible and they ended up missing some important parts of Danny's character, the 15 years he spent in K'un Lun and why he left and doesn't care for K'un Lun.
This is a really, really lame excuse for lazy writing.
Hey, you know how you can get away with incorporating Asian culture into your script without being accused of cultural appropriation? By hiring people who actually have experience in doing exactly that.
If Marvel had just said fuck it and dove in to the mess, done what they wanted to and not gave a damn about being PC or the Hardcore Fans, then we would have gotten an amazing show. Instead we got a show that's alright but not great. It's better than the Electra parts of DD2 and the Diamondback stuff from Luke Cage, imo, but it never has any amazing moments that makes it good. At least DD2 had Punisher and Luke Cage had Cottonmouth, and great arcs to keep the whole season afloat, but IF never did and felt flat. It's better than 17% that it's got on Rotten Tomatoes (BvS got 27% and this was way better than that shit.)
This is really lame speculation. It's right up there with "I would be a billionaire CEO if those Mexicans didn't steal my job!"
Stop blaming the non-existent PC police for the fact that the show did poorly.
Schrodinger on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Anyone who thinks that the show sucks because it actively avoided "the PC police" has put more thought into the show than the people in charge of actually making it. That's the real problem.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
I love the comics and enjoyed the show. I defintely don't think it was perfect, but I never considered not watching the rest of it at any point.
And I, a huge kung fu movie fanboy, actually enjoyed many if not most of the fight scenes. I can definitely pick out points where choreography or cinematography of them was off base, or where Jones specifically couldn't quite get the job done, but I've watched worse many times.
But then, I'm kinda notorious for liking liking things.
I don't mind that you liked the show. If you did, then great! My point is that even if it was enjoyable, it didn't do the sources justice. Maybe that's a strong opinion to have, but I feel like it's justifiable.
Is it your opinion that the show sucked because the social justice warriors made the show runners feel all super sensitive and it fucked with their ability to do their jobs? I'm guessing maybe not? Either way, I'm not making an assumption about all of your other opinions about this show by lumping you in with literally everyone else who liked it.
I don't think the whole sturm and drang over the fact that Danny is and always has been a white dude really had any impact on the quality of the show directly. I would hazard a guess that it being the lowest rated thing ever to exist on Rotten Tomatoes probably has something to do with the environment surrounding it before release, but most of the things I would categorize as flaws are pretty clearly owned by the show and not by some shady cabal of people trying to ruin everything for the sake of their own proportionate representation.
I'm actually working on putting my thoughts about the fight scenes specifically in order. Because I had a very different takeaway from them than others seem to have, especially the early ones.
I agree with your point about the popular and critical response entirely. I think the show set itself up for failure when it took on the Danny Rand story because of the problematic origins in the first place. And then in maintaining the line that they wanted to "tell the best story possible" and "hire the best person for the job", they raised the bar even higher. Because if you're going to take on this kind of trouble and then not adjust it for the modern sensibilities of a mainstream audience who have no background in the comics, then you need to tell a really good fucking story and have a really great main character to justify those optics. And they just plain dropped the ball.
So in likelihood what would've been a meh Iron Fist show if it had an Asian lead ("at least he's asian! at least they're trying!") turned into a complete shitstorm ("not only did they ignore our concerns entirely, but the show and the main character are bad!"). It sucks, but they should've seen this coming. Like I said, if they really wanted to make this show and justify their choices then they should've taken the time to make a great show or just not bothered at all.
And I'm curious to hear an alternative opinion on the fight scenes that might explain why his skill was so inconsistent. Like, the execution will always be lacking, but if there is some kind of implied characterization (a la Joy being a pushover) then that would be interesting to note.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
But please, keep filling your posts with "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" and assumptions about people you disagree with.
The Iron Fist literally
Episode 13
ran up to the bad guy, who has no superpowers, AND KNOCKED HIM DOWN.
AND THEN INSTEAD OF FINISHING THE FIGHT HE JUST RAN AWAY.
That's what I'm LOLOLOLOLOLing about. I think that's a perfectly justified opinion. I'm laughing because it's absurd. This is the final fight in the show and he's up against a literal nobody in terms of hand-to-hand combat, gets the immediate jump on the guy, and then RUNS AWAY.
The Iron Fist costume is ridiculously dumb looking. It should be treated like Luke Cage treated his costume.
If they did a white and green version of the thing Daredevil wore for most of season 1, it would work pretty well. No need to go all boots and v collar.
But they could.
That has got to be the worst costume ever for maintaining a secret identity.
Like, you can never go to the beach and take your shirt off without your mask on. Ever.
But please, keep filling your posts with "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" and assumptions about people you disagree with.
The Iron Fist literally
Episode 13
ran up to the bad guy, who has no superpowers, AND KNOCKED HIM DOWN.
AND THEN INSTEAD OF FINISHING THE FIGHT HE JUST RAN AWAY.
That's what I'm LOLOLOLOLOLing about. I think that's a perfectly justified opinion. I'm laughing because it's absurd. This is the final fight in the show and he's up against a literal nobody in terms of hand-to-hand combat, gets the immediate jump on the guy, and then RUNS AWAY.
WTF?
He knocks the guy down, and then moves on because
1) they already know he's coming
2) they're trying to get up there quickly
There's no reason for him to stay there any longer than he needs to.
There's also a whole scene before that where they debate the merits of killing, and Danny has been generally been reluctant to kill people throughout the series.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
But please, keep filling your posts with "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" and assumptions about people you disagree with.
The Iron Fist literally
Episode 13
ran up to the bad guy, who has no superpowers, AND KNOCKED HIM DOWN.
AND THEN INSTEAD OF FINISHING THE FIGHT HE JUST RAN AWAY.
That's what I'm LOLOLOLOLOLing about. I think that's a perfectly justified opinion. I'm laughing because it's absurd. This is the final fight in the show and he's up against a literal nobody in terms of hand-to-hand combat, gets the immediate jump on the guy, and then RUNS AWAY.
WTF?
Yeah. That's the kind of writing that happens when people need to artificially extend something because they're just out of it. It's worth laughing at because
ffs, how many times did we see throughout the show Danny disarm gun wielding people? And this time, it was "Ha, you're less dangerous, RUN AWAY OH NO."
It could have gone with Asian Danny and fixed a lot of it's problems, but for those who aren't up to date with the comics, Marvel comics tried to do some progressive stuff and allowed feminist and SJW writers do some comics and it backfired so badly that Marvel had to shut down many of the comics and scale back the political messages in their main comics.
Okay, but
None of what you just said actually happened.
The most "SJW" comics in Marvel are consistently the highest selling ones.
Not according to a lot of figures. Angela: Queen of Hel lost more than half it's readers in 7 issues, especially when it's full of stupid things like this:
That's a really bad metric. With few exceptions, issue #1 will almost always have much higher sales compared to issue #7. The same goes for TV pilots. Or pointing out that your car last value the moment it left the lot.
In fact, one of the major problems with Marvel right now is that they keep introducing brand new volumes of the exact same title just so they can get some of that sweet, sweet, "Issue #1!" boost.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Let's try and keep the conversation about the kung fu man tv show civil.
Anyone who thinks that the show sucks because it actively avoided "the PC police" has put more thought into the show than the people in charge of actually making it. That's the real problem.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
I love the comics and enjoyed the show. I defintely don't think it was perfect, but I never considered not watching the rest of it at any point.
And I, a huge kung fu movie fanboy, actually enjoyed many if not most of the fight scenes. I can definitely pick out points where choreography or cinematography of them was off base, or where Jones specifically couldn't quite get the job done, but I've watched worse many times.
But then, I'm kinda notorious for liking liking things.
I don't mind that you liked the show. If you did, then great! My point is that even if it was enjoyable, it didn't do the sources justice. Maybe that's a strong opinion to have, but I feel like it's justifiable.
Is it your opinion that the show sucked because the social justice warriors made the show runners feel all super sensitive and it fucked with their ability to do their jobs? I'm guessing maybe not? Either way, I'm not making an assumption about all of your other opinions about this show by lumping you in with literally everyone else who liked it.
I don't think the whole sturm and drang over the fact that Danny is and always has been a white dude really had any impact on the quality of the show directly. I would hazard a guess that it being the lowest rated thing ever to exist on Rotten Tomatoes probably has something to do with the environment surrounding it before release
If have seen that "lowest rated anything ever on RT" other places as well, where does it come from? Just from clicking on stuff on the main page I got to the AC movie. Which has a Tomatometer of 17% as well, but an average rating of 3.9/10 which is even lower than Iron Fist's 4.21/10 with the same Freshness Rating. There is also Collateral Beauty, with a Freshness Rating of 12% (again, just staying with stuff I could get to easily via clicking from the main page, no real searching evolved).
And thats not even counting stuff that has a higher Freshness Rating but a lower Average Rating, like Solace.
Posts
Shirt is dark green with a cool "pattern or texture" pants black or darker green, yellow sash and yellow mask.
Done.
Dont have to go with the huge collar or crazy deep "V" cut on the shirt, just something that looks like its built for movement and quickness. Where as Daredevil's suit is built for brawling and being all up in the shit.
And anyone who thinks that this show pays any respect to the actual source material, both in comics and movies, likely has no familiarity with either. I have no idea what the comics are like but based on how they have been described by people here, the show misses the mark completely. I am, however, a massive martial arts movie fan and a martial artist myself, and the fight scenes are a fucking disgrace. I would've given the show a pass if it was just a basic origin story with good fights but instead it was a badly-done corporate intrigue story paired with some of the worst fight scenes I have seen in recent memory along with a while host of plot, character, and consistency issues.
They never should have made this if they weren't going to put in the time and effort to do it properly. Period.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Not according to a lot of figures. Angela: Queen of Hel lost more than half it's readers in 7 issues, especially when it's full of stupid things like this:
You have no idea what the comics are like, but you're prepared to claim that everyone who likes the show and is comparing them to parts in the comics is lying about reading the comics.
oookay
I love the comics and enjoyed the show. I defintely don't think it was perfect, but I never considered not watching the rest of it at any point.
And I, a huge kung fu movie fanboy, actually enjoyed many if not most of the fight scenes. I can definitely pick out points where choreography or cinematography of them was off base, or where Jones specifically couldn't quite get the job done, but I've watched worse many times.
But then, I'm kinda notorious for liking liking things.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
My guess, "the dragon" isn't some big, nasty lizard but something akin to the child weapon glimpsed in that Daredevil episode. One of the modern comics revisions to the character is his growing realization that Kun Lun was actually a pretty fucked up place run by bad people. From the abuse of him as a child to Danny and Davos essentially being repressed man children - both of which Claire calls out in her role as moral center/audience surrogate - I think the sequel is going to go the route of Danny realizing that while his decision to run was selfish and damaging, staying in his assigned role was also not the right path.
Like all comics, it changes a little from run to run. At first Danny was kind of stiff and bent on revenge against Harold Meachum, but had a change of heart. He softened a lot when he started working with the Heroes for Hire, and softened a whole hell of a lot over his long friendship and working relationship with Luke Cage. In more current runs in the comics he's kind of goofy and a little out of touch, but generally a nice guy who tries to do good and is enthusiastic about being both a hero and the Iron Fist and he's been through enough that he's fairly humble.
Danny's been around for [checks Marvel Database just to be sure] going on 43 years now. He's been written by a lot of people in that time, so his characterization has varied a bit. He started out a single-minded, vengeance obsessed badass, who came back from K'un Lun immediately after his ascension to Iron Fist to avenge the murder of his parents, which was a lot more cut and dried at the time. It was an obvious homage/lift from kung fu cinema, and he was being used to build the roster of that side of Marvel Comics at the time. Like a lot of those characters, he was kinda one note until he got his own book later down the line.
Then he hooked up with everyone's favorite bulletproof black guy and played the role of well-meaning but clueless rich white guy for a couple of decades. The whole fish out of water deal was pretty essential to his character, and he always tried to do the right thing but almost never knew what that was without Luke, Misty or Colleen telling him. But he ended up with a decent sense of humor and a good deal of humilty, which still kinda define the character in some ways.
In the last decade or so, he's really turned to the spiritual and has kind of become a contemporary of people like Dr. Strange in terms of mysticism in some ways. Very zen master in his approaches to thing.
Occasionally you still get some really terrible, out of character writing for him. At one point they made him back into a playboy womanizer with no soul for a couple of issues, apparently wanting to read more into the power fantasy of superhuman kung fu billioniare than had been there previously.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
You could have a decent movie script about Ward going slowly insane while being ordered about by his insane zombie father. I actually think him and his story was the best part of the show.
As for Joy, I think her super flexible moral compass was the point. She's introduced as the "nice" one, but she's actually a far worse person than Ward.
Ward's trapped in a life he doesn't want and is playing a role. The entire time he's doing the asshole CEO schtick for the secret cameras, he's secretly embezzling funds for his escape. He's doing what he has to, but he's not fooling himself that he is a good person for doing so. He just wants out.
The show does a really good job with the way she's set up. She's constantly doing fucked up shit to Danny, usually on someone else's orders and against her moral compass, but she does it anyway. Since she's the nice one and the one that Danny and Meachum's care about the most, so it takes a while to sink it that she's actually a really horrible person.
Marvel is at the tail end of their last line-wide renumbering and new series push. That one example is part of about 8-10 comics that people raged against as "SJWs and feminists taking over" and with the exception of Angela Queen of Hel and Mockingbird the others are the top sellers for Marvel.
Ms Marvel (A Pakistani-American teenage girl), Spider-Gwen (If Gwen Stacey became Spider-Man), Mighty Thor (Jane Foster as Thor) and Sam Wilson (Sam Wilson becomes Captain America) are some of the most consistent among the top spots for Marvel superhero books. Even though they manage to pull all the assholes out of the woodwork to rage against them.
And that's looking at both Comichron and Diamond Distributors.
I don't disagree with your larger point but breaking the top 100 sales list isn't a meaningful accomplishment for a Marvel book.
who?
"Social justice" has been part of Marvel's brand since at least the '60s, and you could argue that that tradition goes back to Captain America fighting the Nazis years before America entered WWII. For a long time, the desire to tackled "social issues" - albeit in the awkward and dated way you get in decades old comics written by well-meaning white dudes - was the defining editorial difference between Marvel and DC.
There are these words called qualifiers. And I called out my ignorance with the comics to make it clear that I wasn't speaking for everyone, so thanks for reiterating that point.
But oh shit, you sure showed me son.
I don't think this show has given any semblance of respect to its origins. I'm perfectly fine arguing that point over and over again. I'm getting really tired of the generalization that people who dislike the show only do so because they are "social justice warriors" and have ulterior motives. I have made almost no mention of the fact that Danny "should have been Asian" short of pointing out that yes, the source is problematic.
If you're unwilling to engage in the debate beyond stating that you liked the show, then that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I'm getting really tired of those of you who like the show and feel like you need to just lash out when someone makes an argument you don't like.
You think the show did the comics justice? Fine. Prove me wrong. Show me where it did just that.
In the meantime, when I say that the fight scenes suck I'm going to point out the 78 cuts in that fight scene with the random fucking guy in the hospital clerk room as one of the worst fight scenes I've seen in a long time. Not to mention a complete lack of character consistency for "the Iron Fist". For a show which is supposed to be based on the martial arts craze of the 70's onwards whose main character is supposed to be one of the best fighters on the planet, I think that's unacceptable.
I don't mind that you liked the show. If you did, then great! My point is that even if it was enjoyable, it didn't do the sources justice. Maybe that's a strong opinion to have, but I feel like it's justifiable.
Is it your opinion that the show sucked because the social justice warriors made the show runners feel all super sensitive and it fucked with their ability to do their jobs? I'm guessing maybe not? Either way, I'm not making an assumption about all of your other opinions about this show by lumping you in with literally everyone else who liked it.
In Luke Cage, there was very little in the way of having him struggle in fights. They showed him the same level of respect for his powers that Daredevil got. It was all rooted so very damn well, it was amazing.
Iron Fist kind of occupies a space between those two, in terms of how hard they hit and what they feel when getting hit. Or, he's supposed to. Instead, it was an inconsistent mess of sometimes a couple hits puts someone down, and sometimes he can't keep a simple thug down at all. That was a tremendous let-down because all these shows up to this point did a good job demonstrating the powers and talents these people wield.
I don't think the whole sturm and drang over the fact that Danny is and always has been a white dude really had any impact on the quality of the show directly. I would hazard a guess that it being the lowest rated thing ever to exist on Rotten Tomatoes probably has something to do with the environment surrounding it before release, but most of the things I would categorize as flaws are pretty clearly owned by the show and not by some shady cabal of people trying to ruin everything for the sake of their own proportionate representation.
I'm actually working on putting my thoughts about the fight scenes specifically in order. Because I had a very different takeaway from them than others seem to have, especially the early ones.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Honestly, those things weren't the things that most of the fanboys where getting pissed off about. It wasn't that Ms. Marvel was a Muslim girl, or Spider-Gwen was what if Spiderman was a woman, because most people were cool with that. It was stuff like M.O.D.A.A.K, which was Donald Trump becomes M.O.D.O.K and starts throwing Mexicans out of the country and starts building a wall until Captain America stops him. It was characters throwing shit like mansplaining in causal dialog or having characters that had no reason to be racist, homophobic, or misogynistic douches suddenly are. Hardcore fans were upset that story was being sacrificed for agendas, not that diversity was being thrown in to comics.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Oh don't give me that bullshit, I engaged with you about this show for several pages already.
Secondly I didn't engage in the argument about whether Danny should have been asian, nor did I call anyone a "Social Justice Warrior", so take that to someone who actually is trying to pull that shit.
I'm not going to go back and quote myself for the last 7 pages of discussion. I've been talking about what I like and don't like about the show pretty consistently though without saying that people who dislike it "don't understand the source material" or are wrong for disliking it. Nor do I make personal assumptions about the people who I disagree with. But please, keep filling your posts with "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" and assumptions about people you disagree with.
It was suppose to be a story about The Superhero Formerly Known As Thor, Odenson's lost sister Angela. She came to light during the Original Sins storyline.
that particular sword cuts both ways. someone arguing in favor of the show is no cause for you to lash out.
Also, the X-Men, which were pretty explicit allegories for oppressed minorities.
You missed the point. It isn't about Captain standing up for American values, it's that the comic just blatantly goes and makes Trump a cartoony villain just because they can. It's just political statements of "We hate Trump" that readers are done with because we hear that all the time in real life, we don't need it in comics when we are trying to escape from the bad, vile shit of real world for a few minutes.
Captain America discovered that President Not Nixon was secretly the Hatemonger - i.e. literal Hitler - back in the 70s.
Do you have a source for this that isn't Brietbart?
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/11/is-marvels-diversity-strategy-paying-off.html
Along with the huge successes of the Marvel cinematic universe and other marketing decisions, the creative choice to diversify seems to be paying off for the company.
Marvel controls around 40 percent of comic book market share in the U.S., according to the pop culture website ICv2. Also, the overall U.S. comic book market has grown in recent years: sales of comics were around $579 million in 2015, a year-on-year increase of 7.17 percent, according to figures compiled by comics history site Comichron.
Most of the sales problems at Marvel have more to do with their constant rebooting of titles to push the sale of "Issue #1", along with too much "event fatigue" where Marvel focuses on having a universe wide crossover in the model of "Civil War." The problem with the first one is that it's incredibly difficult for people to keep track of the different titles. The problem with the second is that it undermines the autonomy of individual writers to tell their own story, because now they have to find a way to tie their story into the main event (often, clumsily so). There's also the fact that Marvel is pretty much abandoning the X-Men and Fantastic Four franchises due to losing the movie rights.
These two things are not comparable.
First of all, fans got really upset during clone saga when Peter Parker got replaced with Ben Reilly, even though Reilly was a clone who was physically identical to Peter in every way. OTOH, Spider-Gwen and Miles Morales have been incredibly popular. Miles is pretty much the only that Marvel decided to keep after destroying the entire Ultimate Universe. "Spider-Gwen" was the #9 most popular book series for 2015. Not just the #9 most popular for Marvel, but the #9 most popular for all comics in general. Most people are okay with seeing SJW-versions of Spider-Man so long as the original Peter Parker doesn't get killed off, because they have an attachment to Peter Parker.
Now, as for an Asian Danny Rand, there's two things to consider: First, Danny Rand does not have the same following as any of the other characters who got replaced. Not even close. Second, Asian Danny Rand would still be Danny Rand. You can still have the same backstory and character. Him being white was a way to make him acceptable to 1970s comic readers, but it's not an integral aspect to his character. It's the same reason why "Karate Kid" in DC is drawn as Caucasian, even though he grew up in Japan as the son of a Japanese Warlord.
This is a really, really lame excuse for lazy writing.
Hey, you know how you can get away with incorporating Asian culture into your script without being accused of cultural appropriation? By hiring people who actually have experience in doing exactly that.
This is really lame speculation. It's right up there with "I would be a billionaire CEO if those Mexicans didn't steal my job!"
Stop blaming the non-existent PC police for the fact that the show did poorly.
I agree with your point about the popular and critical response entirely. I think the show set itself up for failure when it took on the Danny Rand story because of the problematic origins in the first place. And then in maintaining the line that they wanted to "tell the best story possible" and "hire the best person for the job", they raised the bar even higher. Because if you're going to take on this kind of trouble and then not adjust it for the modern sensibilities of a mainstream audience who have no background in the comics, then you need to tell a really good fucking story and have a really great main character to justify those optics. And they just plain dropped the ball.
So in likelihood what would've been a meh Iron Fist show if it had an Asian lead ("at least he's asian! at least they're trying!") turned into a complete shitstorm ("not only did they ignore our concerns entirely, but the show and the main character are bad!"). It sucks, but they should've seen this coming. Like I said, if they really wanted to make this show and justify their choices then they should've taken the time to make a great show or just not bothered at all.
And I'm curious to hear an alternative opinion on the fight scenes that might explain why his skill was so inconsistent. Like, the execution will always be lacking, but if there is some kind of implied characterization (a la Joy being a pushover) then that would be interesting to note.
The Iron Fist literally
Episode 13
AND THEN INSTEAD OF FINISHING THE FIGHT HE JUST RAN AWAY.
That's what I'm LOLOLOLOLOLing about. I think that's a perfectly justified opinion. I'm laughing because it's absurd. This is the final fight in the show and he's up against a literal nobody in terms of hand-to-hand combat, gets the immediate jump on the guy, and then RUNS AWAY.
WTF?
That has got to be the worst costume ever for maintaining a secret identity.
Like, you can never go to the beach and take your shirt off without your mask on. Ever.
1) they already know he's coming
2) they're trying to get up there quickly
There's no reason for him to stay there any longer than he needs to.
There's also a whole scene before that where they debate the merits of killing, and Danny has been generally been reluctant to kill people throughout the series.
That's a really bad metric. With few exceptions, issue #1 will almost always have much higher sales compared to issue #7. The same goes for TV pilots. Or pointing out that your car last value the moment it left the lot.
In fact, one of the major problems with Marvel right now is that they keep introducing brand new volumes of the exact same title just so they can get some of that sweet, sweet, "Issue #1!" boost.
If have seen that "lowest rated anything ever on RT" other places as well, where does it come from? Just from clicking on stuff on the main page I got to the AC movie. Which has a Tomatometer of 17% as well, but an average rating of 3.9/10 which is even lower than Iron Fist's 4.21/10 with the same Freshness Rating. There is also Collateral Beauty, with a Freshness Rating of 12% (again, just staying with stuff I could get to easily via clicking from the main page, no real searching evolved).
And thats not even counting stuff that has a higher Freshness Rating but a lower Average Rating, like Solace.