The only real complaint I have about Alyx's animations, actually, is just how often they use that fucking "open arms, spread hands" gesture. It's like, come on, just give her a new animation, a little more variety in body language. She deserves it.
Half-Life 2 is much more varied in it's "NPC standing still giving dialouge" animation than, say, Mass Effect.
I counted how many time Wrex did the same motion with his arms while telling me about why he left his home system.
Nonetheless, it would be nice if they gave her dialog animations - Valve are too good at raising the bar against themselves.
Also, personally I like the facial animations of Alyx and others and if you listen to the director's commentary in Ep 2 you'll note that at the start it's said that they deliberately gave her more dramatic facial expressions then the previous game in order to better convey the performance. I honestly can't help but think this is probably the right move (then again, I think it's excellent so YMMV) since in a game your biggest issue is that it doesn't take too much for the player to completely miss a performance by standing just a little bit too far away or the like.
I think the facial stuff is more dramatic so you can be sure to see it from a distance. I know they throw you up against her in a small area alot, but at normal distances, to further away you can see them fine.
Szechuanosaurus, I think you would enjoy the animation better if you had an actually heart instead of a block of solid, crusty, complainy rock embedded in your chest.
Yes, my lack of affection for a computer animation makes me heartless. Alternatively, I'm happily married to a real life woman who provides me with all the feminine companionship I need, so I don't over-invest in make-believe relationships with virtual dolls (and I mean dolls in the non-sexist, literal sense - she's not real, any realtionship formed with her is no more real than that formed with a lifeless mannequin). My real issue, I think, with Alyx is that she's just not much fun. I don't really have anything against her, she's not revolting. The vortigaunt and even the two guys you help to defend the mine shaft, however, are much more fun than Alyx to run alongside. And I play games to have fun, not to form deep bonds with the in-game characters.
Szechuanosaurus, I think you would enjoy the animation better if you realised that Half-Life is quite heavily stylised. It's really not meant to be that much more realistic than Team Fortress 2.
That's ridiculous. I'm not sure if you actually believe that or if you just think I'm stupid enough to believe it. Team Fortress is patently cartoon-styled while everything in Half Life has been designed to look as realistic as possible.
I think the facial stuff is more dramatic so you can be sure to see it from a distance. I know they throw you up against her in a small area alot, but at normal distances, to further away you can see them fine.
That, however, makes much more sense and is an argument that holds up well to dramatic convention (ie, stage shows are performed over-dramatically so the audience can see clearly what is going on, what emotions are being expressed etc.). They've probably done it as a compensation for people like me who tend to wander off and start breaking stuff when the NPCs are having important conversations.
Since reading this thread, I've been playing HL2 episodes. I played the original all the way through a few years ago. It didn't make that much of a lasting impression on me (although in it's defense, it can't have been terrible because I completed it) but I definitely think the Episodes are a lot more fun, especially episode 2 which I guess I'm about half way through by now. It's a great demonstration of episodic content done well as well. I was a bit surprised by how short Episode 1 was until I considered how cheap (by comparison to a full sized, full priced game) it was. It keeps the game bite-sized which, I think, helps hold your attention in a way that a huge game like Oblivion finds much harder (God Oblivion bored me, and I normally thrive in free-roaming games).
It's got it's negative points, sure (which I've reveled in highlighting), but it's definitely a great little series and does this cinematic FPS thing very well. It's tightly confined, but extremely well built.
I don't really get people who say the episodic content thing isn't working. The episodes are such higher quality than HL2 was, and hey, HL2 took six fuckin' years. Even Yahtzee's review says "the whole point is shorter games of higher quality released more frequently and while they have aspects one and two down they continue to struggle with three." Which is really very far from true, because jesus christ, a valve game two years after another valve game is a pretty good run, surely.
Yeah, although to be fair, I think HL2 is the exception to the rule. Sam and Max and Sin are the other two 'big-name' episodic games and they are both fairly meh from what I understand. But then, that's more an issue with the quality of the game design than the distribution method. They would be meh even if they were one full sized game (although perhaps cheaper over-all so they might score higher due to being relatively better value for money, I guess).
Szechuanosaurus, I think you would enjoy the animation better if you had an actually heart instead of a block of solid, crusty, complainy rock embedded in your chest.
Yes, my lack of affection for a computer animation makes me heartless. Alternatively, I'm happily married to a real life woman who provides me with all the feminine companionship I need, so I don't over-invest in make-believe relationships with virtual dolls (and I mean dolls in the non-sexist, literal sense - she's not real, any realtionship formed with her is no more real than that formed with a lifeless mannequin). My real issue, I think, with Alyx is that she's just not much fun. I don't really have anything against her, she's not revolting. The vortigaunt and even the two guys you help to defend the mine shaft, however, are much more fun than Alyx to run alongside. And I play games to have fun, not to form deep bonds with the in-game characters.
Firstly, it's mostly a joke. Secondly, no ones saying you should be wanking over Alyx sitting in front of your computer and having wet dreams about her at night. But it just seems odd that you find yourself completely unable to connect with the character and actually find her annoying. Apparently because of her face? I found her an enjoyable companion. She's fun, she's competent, she's emotive and it's nice to have some company along with you.
Szechuanosaurus, I think you would enjoy the animation better if you realised that Half-Life is quite heavily stylised. It's really not meant to be that much more realistic than Team Fortress 2.
That's ridiculous. I'm not sure if you actually believe that or if you just think I'm stupid enough to believe it. Team Fortress is patently cartoon-styled while everything in Half Life has been designed to look as realistic as possible.
Actually, the faces are not. They made them more stylized then realistic because it makes them easier to connect with and easier to read emotion from. Really realistic faces gives you that freaky, dead-eyed, "Uncanny Valley" look.
I think the facial stuff is more dramatic so you can be sure to see it from a distance. I know they throw you up against her in a small area alot, but at normal distances, to further away you can see them fine.
That, however, makes much more sense and is an argument that holds up well to dramatic convention (ie, stage shows are performed over-dramatically so the audience can see clearly what is going on, what emotions are being expressed etc.). They've probably done it as a compensation for people like me who tend to wander off and start breaking stuff when the NPCs are having important conversations.
Good point here. Also, what I said above this quote.
I don't really get people who say the episodic content thing isn't working. The episodes are such higher quality than HL2 was, and hey, HL2 took six fuckin' years. Even Yahtzee's review says "the whole point is shorter games of higher quality released more frequently and while they have aspects one and two down they continue to struggle with three." Which is really very far from true, because jesus christ, a valve game two years after another valve game is a pretty good run, surely.
1.5 years for a 3-5 hour episode isn't terribly fast for anyone but Valve. As an example to others, Valve's work on episodes haven't lived up to the "developed faster" promise. It might be fine for them, but the way they do it really isn't viable for anyone else.
Look at Sam and Max. They do episodic, but they release a new episode every month for six months. That's what people are expecting from episodic. (Or at least less than a year of development time for something that isn't even close to a full game in length.) Valve is taking the time to develop their episodes that other companies take to make full blown sequels.
So sure, this may be blazing fast for Valve; but for everyone else it doesn't really look that hot. ('Course, even Valve expected the episodes to go faster than they have. Ep1 was originally slated for Summer '05, Ep2 for end of year '06 and Ep3 for holidays '07) I mean, at this rate it's going to have taken them 4.5 years to put out 3 episodes. Really, at that point it's like they were just working on a full game and were dropping of chunks of it every 1.5 years.
I once said that Episodic is a good idea, but it's going to take someone other than Valve to prove it.
Actually, the faces are not. They made them more stylized then realistic because it makes them easier to connect with and easier to read emotion from. Really realistic faces gives you that freaky, dead-eyed, "Uncanny Valley" look.
Where are you getting this from? Because in "raising the bar" you see the people they based the in-game characters on, and they look almost identical. I've always thought Valve tried to make the characters as realistic as possible, and they actually succeed because of their superb facial animation, not because of some stylized art design.
Actually, the faces are not. They made them more stylized then realistic because it makes them easier to connect with and easier to read emotion from. Really realistic faces gives you that freaky, dead-eyed, "Uncanny Valley" look.
Where are you getting this from? Because in "raising the bar" you see the people they based the in-game characters on, and they look almost identical. I've always thought Valve tried to make the characters as realistic as possible, and they actually succeed because of their superb facial animation, not because of some stylized art design.
It's what I'd always heard. While they were very close, certain things are exaggerated to make it feel more human, even though it's technically less realistic. I could be wrong though. I'll do some link hunting, but I'm gonna be gone soon, so it may take a bit.
So sure, this may be blazing fast for Valve; but for everyone else it doesn't really look that hot. ('Course, even Valve expected the episodes to go faster than they have. Ep1 was originally slated for Summer '05, Ep2 for end of year '06 and Ep3 for holidays '07) I mean, at this rate it's going to have taken them 4.5 years to put out 3 episodes. Really, at that point it's like they were just working on a full game and were dropping of chunks of it every 1.5 years.
I once said that Episodic is a good idea, but it's going to take someone other than Valve to prove it.
That's true enough, although I'd think that valve are already proving it's a good method for developers who don't have a publisher to bank-roll them.
Most developers get an advance from a publisher so that they can take 4.5 years to develop a full-size game. Without that advance, they wouldn't have the finances to continue beyond the initial proof-of-concepts. The sucker punch is that they don't see any profits from the game until that advance is repaid from sales profit (which often means they don't see any profit from the sales at all because they never shift enough units to break out of the advance the publishers gave them, an issue which only gets worse the longer a game takes to develop).
For Valve, episodic content is an alternative financing model. They don't take an advance from a publisher, so they need an alternative system to bankroll their development process. They might take a year and a half to do one episode, but then that episode's sales keep them afloat long enough to develop the next episode and so on (meanwhile, they develop another full-scale game in tandem which allows them a huge break every 5 years or so, giving them a financial as well as intellectual platform to push forward the next batch of episodes).
Really, proving episodic content isn't about proving that the customers like it or it works out to our advantage, it's about proving that it can work as an alternative financial model for independent developers. An alternative to relying on a big name publisher to push you an advance and then never seeing any money for your labours after that initial cash injection. At least, it is for Valve anyway. The publishers probably see it as an opportunity to overcharge and under-develop their games - cut the cost of development by lowering expectations of the end user (it's not as epic because it's episodic!) and then push the retail price up (It's only $15 but to get the equivalent of a full length game you'll need to buy 24 episodes!).
I don't really get people who say the episodic content thing isn't working. The episodes are such higher quality than HL2 was, and hey, HL2 took six fuckin' years. Even Yahtzee's review says "the whole point is shorter games of higher quality released more frequently and while they have aspects one and two down they continue to struggle with three." Which is really very far from true, because jesus christ, a valve game two years after another valve game is a pretty good run, surely.
1.5 years for a 3-5 hour episode isn't terribly fast for anyone but Valve. As an example to others, Valve's work on episodes haven't lived up to the "developed faster" promise. It might be fine for them, but the way they do it really isn't viable for anyone else.
Look at Sam and Max. They do episodic, but they release a new episode every month for six months. That's what people are expecting from episodic. (Or at least less than a year of development time for something that isn't even close to a full game in length.) Valve is taking the time to develop their episodes that other companies take to make full blown sequels.
So sure, this may be blazing fast for Valve; but for everyone else it doesn't really look that hot. ('Course, even Valve expected the episodes to go faster than they have. Ep1 was originally slated for Summer '05, Ep2 for end of year '06 and Ep3 for holidays '07) I mean, at this rate it's going to have taken them 4.5 years to put out 3 episodes. Really, at that point it's like they were just working on a full game and were dropping of chunks of it every 1.5 years.
I once said that Episodic is a good idea, but it's going to take someone other than Valve to prove it.
Personally I think Valve have proved it's a good idea. They're slow, but they've proved it's a good idea. I do not think that if they'd created all these episodes and released them at once after a longer gap, that they'd be as good. One of the things some people forget about is the ability to act on criticism of the first third of the game when you're making the second. HL2 was six years' work and would have been easier to fuck up.
Personally I think Valve have proved it's a good idea. They're slow, but they've proved it's a good idea. I do not think that if they'd created all these episodes and released them at once after a longer gap, that they'd be as good. One of the things some people forget about is the ability to act on criticism of the first third of the game when you're making the second. HL2 was six years' work and would have been easier to fuck up.
Yup, that and the fact that the episodes are more contemporary. Take five years to develop a game and by the time you release it, it could be very out-of-date compared to what others are releasing. Episodic content allows you to continually upgrade and update (within reason, you can't afford to build a new engine from scratch for each episode). My opinions of the style of game being dated aside, I believe there's a noticeable improvement in graphics between Episode 1 and Episode 2, for example.
Hell, if they wanted to, they could make Episode 3 an RTS. Not saying they will or that it's a good idea, but they have that flexibility to say 'this isn't working, lets change it up like this'. It's like magazine design, publishing monthly means you can try new ideas, formats, layouts etc. and if it doesn't work it's relatively little money down the drain compared to fucking up a book design.
Actually, it'd be pretty fun if they started doing that with HL2. People terrified of what genre they take up this episode, some pleasantly surprising, others horrifyingly ill-advised.
Valve are the only company I know of where, if you hear of some new game they're making, you can pretty much assume it's going to be awesome, and you'll be right.
Valve are the only company I know of where, if you hear of some new game they're making, you can pretty much assume it's going to be an FPS, and you'll be right.
Valve are the only company I know of where, if you hear of some new game they're making, you can pretty much assume it's going to be awesome, and you'll be right.
The more I look at it , the more terrible that model is. The colour job on the crow bar is the wrong way around and, fuck man, he looks like a robot or something. Way to completely ignore all the great concept art modeling guys.
That's what it reminded me of. In fact, I bet they've just transplanted a head that they figured looked vaguely like gordon onto a pre-existing Cylon model and called it a good job well done.
Why is it that half of people think the Airboat & Buggy sections were among the best in the game, and the other half think they were indefensibly awful?
Why is it that half of people think the Airboat & Buggy sections were among the best in the game, and the other half think they were indefensibly awful?
And I'm down the middle. I liked those sections, but there were better bits. That said, they were never rude about me or my family, so I'm happy to let them live.
Why is it that half of people think the Airboat & Buggy sections were among the best in the game, and the other half think they were indefensibly awful?
I'm gonna guess the people who hate them are either women or of asian descent. You know neither of those types can drive. I'd imagine that would significantly lower your opinion of those sections.
Why is it that half of people think the Airboat & Buggy sections were among the best in the game, and the other half think they were indefensibly awful?
And I'm down the middle. I liked those sections, but there were better bits. That said, they were never rude about me or my family, so I'm happy to let them live.
I think it mostly comes down to which platform you play it on. With the PC it is quite east to accelerate and turn at the same time due to the digital nature of the keyboard allowing you to press w as well as a or d at the same time. With the 360 (and PS3) it is quite difficult to move your craft forward and make turns at the same time. It is especially frustrating to make low speed turns.
In the end, I prefer the PC version for controls (obviously), but prefer the 360 version for achievements and the pretty.
If I recall correctly, Gman gets his name solely because that's what his model is called. Is that a canonical name, or does he have no given name in the game so far?
Posts
Half-Life 2 is much more varied in it's "NPC standing still giving dialouge" animation than, say, Mass Effect.
I counted how many time Wrex did the same motion with his arms while telling me about why he left his home system.
Ten times.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Also, personally I like the facial animations of Alyx and others and if you listen to the director's commentary in Ep 2 you'll note that at the start it's said that they deliberately gave her more dramatic facial expressions then the previous game in order to better convey the performance. I honestly can't help but think this is probably the right move (then again, I think it's excellent so YMMV) since in a game your biggest issue is that it doesn't take too much for the player to completely miss a performance by standing just a little bit too far away or the like.
Yes, my lack of affection for a computer animation makes me heartless. Alternatively, I'm happily married to a real life woman who provides me with all the feminine companionship I need, so I don't over-invest in make-believe relationships with virtual dolls (and I mean dolls in the non-sexist, literal sense - she's not real, any realtionship formed with her is no more real than that formed with a lifeless mannequin). My real issue, I think, with Alyx is that she's just not much fun. I don't really have anything against her, she's not revolting. The vortigaunt and even the two guys you help to defend the mine shaft, however, are much more fun than Alyx to run alongside. And I play games to have fun, not to form deep bonds with the in-game characters.
That's ridiculous. I'm not sure if you actually believe that or if you just think I'm stupid enough to believe it. Team Fortress is patently cartoon-styled while everything in Half Life has been designed to look as realistic as possible.
That, however, makes much more sense and is an argument that holds up well to dramatic convention (ie, stage shows are performed over-dramatically so the audience can see clearly what is going on, what emotions are being expressed etc.). They've probably done it as a compensation for people like me who tend to wander off and start breaking stuff when the NPCs are having important conversations.
Since reading this thread, I've been playing HL2 episodes. I played the original all the way through a few years ago. It didn't make that much of a lasting impression on me (although in it's defense, it can't have been terrible because I completed it) but I definitely think the Episodes are a lot more fun, especially episode 2 which I guess I'm about half way through by now. It's a great demonstration of episodic content done well as well. I was a bit surprised by how short Episode 1 was until I considered how cheap (by comparison to a full sized, full priced game) it was. It keeps the game bite-sized which, I think, helps hold your attention in a way that a huge game like Oblivion finds much harder (God Oblivion bored me, and I normally thrive in free-roaming games).
It's got it's negative points, sure (which I've reveled in highlighting), but it's definitely a great little series and does this cinematic FPS thing very well. It's tightly confined, but extremely well built.
Firstly, it's mostly a joke. Secondly, no ones saying you should be wanking over Alyx sitting in front of your computer and having wet dreams about her at night. But it just seems odd that you find yourself completely unable to connect with the character and actually find her annoying. Apparently because of her face? I found her an enjoyable companion. She's fun, she's competent, she's emotive and it's nice to have some company along with you.
Actually, the faces are not. They made them more stylized then realistic because it makes them easier to connect with and easier to read emotion from. Really realistic faces gives you that freaky, dead-eyed, "Uncanny Valley" look.
Good point here. Also, what I said above this quote.
1.5 years for a 3-5 hour episode isn't terribly fast for anyone but Valve. As an example to others, Valve's work on episodes haven't lived up to the "developed faster" promise. It might be fine for them, but the way they do it really isn't viable for anyone else.
Look at Sam and Max. They do episodic, but they release a new episode every month for six months. That's what people are expecting from episodic. (Or at least less than a year of development time for something that isn't even close to a full game in length.) Valve is taking the time to develop their episodes that other companies take to make full blown sequels.
So sure, this may be blazing fast for Valve; but for everyone else it doesn't really look that hot. ('Course, even Valve expected the episodes to go faster than they have. Ep1 was originally slated for Summer '05, Ep2 for end of year '06 and Ep3 for holidays '07) I mean, at this rate it's going to have taken them 4.5 years to put out 3 episodes. Really, at that point it's like they were just working on a full game and were dropping of chunks of it every 1.5 years.
I once said that Episodic is a good idea, but it's going to take someone other than Valve to prove it.
Where are you getting this from? Because in "raising the bar" you see the people they based the in-game characters on, and they look almost identical. I've always thought Valve tried to make the characters as realistic as possible, and they actually succeed because of their superb facial animation, not because of some stylized art design.
It's what I'd always heard. While they were very close, certain things are exaggerated to make it feel more human, even though it's technically less realistic. I could be wrong though. I'll do some link hunting, but I'm gonna be gone soon, so it may take a bit.
That's true enough, although I'd think that valve are already proving it's a good method for developers who don't have a publisher to bank-roll them.
Most developers get an advance from a publisher so that they can take 4.5 years to develop a full-size game. Without that advance, they wouldn't have the finances to continue beyond the initial proof-of-concepts. The sucker punch is that they don't see any profits from the game until that advance is repaid from sales profit (which often means they don't see any profit from the sales at all because they never shift enough units to break out of the advance the publishers gave them, an issue which only gets worse the longer a game takes to develop).
For Valve, episodic content is an alternative financing model. They don't take an advance from a publisher, so they need an alternative system to bankroll their development process. They might take a year and a half to do one episode, but then that episode's sales keep them afloat long enough to develop the next episode and so on (meanwhile, they develop another full-scale game in tandem which allows them a huge break every 5 years or so, giving them a financial as well as intellectual platform to push forward the next batch of episodes).
Really, proving episodic content isn't about proving that the customers like it or it works out to our advantage, it's about proving that it can work as an alternative financial model for independent developers. An alternative to relying on a big name publisher to push you an advance and then never seeing any money for your labours after that initial cash injection. At least, it is for Valve anyway. The publishers probably see it as an opportunity to overcharge and under-develop their games - cut the cost of development by lowering expectations of the end user (it's not as epic because it's episodic!) and then push the retail price up (It's only $15 but to get the equivalent of a full length game you'll need to buy 24 episodes!).
Yup, that and the fact that the episodes are more contemporary. Take five years to develop a game and by the time you release it, it could be very out-of-date compared to what others are releasing. Episodic content allows you to continually upgrade and update (within reason, you can't afford to build a new engine from scratch for each episode). My opinions of the style of game being dated aside, I believe there's a noticeable improvement in graphics between Episode 1 and Episode 2, for example.
Hell, if they wanted to, they could make Episode 3 an RTS. Not saying they will or that it's a good idea, but they have that flexibility to say 'this isn't working, lets change it up like this'. It's like magazine design, publishing monthly means you can try new ideas, formats, layouts etc. and if it doesn't work it's relatively little money down the drain compared to fucking up a book design.
Actually, it'd be pretty fun if they started doing that with HL2. People terrified of what genre they take up this episode, some pleasantly surprising, others horrifyingly ill-advised.
Well, so far, anyway.
Fixed, but yeah. Also what you said
Blizzard?
Obviously your just like Szechuanosaurus. A heartless shell of a man.
It's ok, I'm sure your used to being dead inside by now.
Also, he totally needs some buttons to make him speak. Each time you press one, you hear someone else's voice talking to him.
That's what it reminded me of. In fact, I bet they've just transplanted a head that they figured looked vaguely like gordon onto a pre-existing Cylon model and called it a good job well done.
Oh, in that case cool. It probably was a Cylon body. I thought this was an official release or something.
What will I hate on now?
Although still, if he was any sort of fan he'd have got the crowbar colouring the right way around. I can't see any excuse for that.
And then spray him Yellow and he'd be samus.
Halo vs Half Life vs Metroid. FIGHT!!!
See, I didn't actually know that. I figured it was something a bit more official, what with the title.
Themocaw Jumps Master Chief off a cliff, gets Gordon eaten by a Barnacle, and winds up flinging Samus into deep space.
Shitty games player wins. FATALITY
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And I'm down the middle. I liked those sections, but there were better bits. That said, they were never rude about me or my family, so I'm happy to let them live.
I'm gonna guess the people who hate them are either women or of asian descent. You know neither of those types can drive. I'd imagine that would significantly lower your opinion of those sections.
Edit: /sigh, no joking allowed.
I think it mostly comes down to which platform you play it on. With the PC it is quite east to accelerate and turn at the same time due to the digital nature of the keyboard allowing you to press w as well as a or d at the same time. With the 360 (and PS3) it is quite difficult to move your craft forward and make turns at the same time. It is especially frustrating to make low speed turns.
In the end, I prefer the PC version for controls (obviously), but prefer the 360 version for achievements and the pretty.
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