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Help! I am losing control of my 360!

El GuacoEl Guaco Registered User regular
edited February 2008 in Games and Technology
OK, this topic has been festering in my brain so I thought I'd throw this out there to see if I'm the only one.

I'm getting tired of games that force me to use a controller in a layout that is ass-backwards for me. Even though I'm right-handed, there are many times when the left/right of the thing just feels wrong. So many times I wish I could have the option to reverse the functions of the left & right analog sticks on my xbox controller. Sometimes I want to flip the controller completely and move the buttons to the left. Like I said, I'm not a lefty, and so I guess I have to justify my peculiar rant.

Case in point: Driving games. It's already hard enough to drive a car with a tiny thumbstick with no feedback, but you want me to steer with my left thumb? It's probably the most uncoordinated appendage on my body, and I have to use it for the most critical part of the game? I fell in love with the demo for Forza 2, but I can't bring myself to buy even a used copy because I know that driving with lefty is going to cause me endless grief. The steering wheel has come down in price, but $99 to play racing games properly is stretching it for me, and it's not like I'm poor.

Another example: Rez HD. I wanted to like this game when I played the demo, but I had a hard time getting ol' lefty to cooperate. I'm a big supporter of inverted Y-axis, so that's not an issue. There aren't that many controls in this game, so why can't I have an alternate layout? That reason alone will keep me from buying it.

One game that seemed to get it right was Tiger Woods '07 (I'm gonna finish that year before buying '08), and I could reassign the tru-swing controls to the right stick. Trying to swing with the left stick was like playing golf with a baseball bat.

I've been playing video games since Pong, so it's not like I'm some un-coordinated newb. I just find it frustrating that game designers don't take alternate views into account for controller layouts. It also makes me wonder if there is a market for controllers that have all the controls flipped horizontally.

El Guaco on



Posts

  • MetacortexMetacortex The Prettiest Zombie Coeur d'CoeursRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I agree. While I rarely, if ever, find myself having to change controls out of NECESSITY, I can't see why there isn't the option to be able to completely customize the controls.

    Maybe there's some programming reason, I don't know, but it seems to me it would be simple enough to code. Just need to shift around a few pointers.

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  • shutzshutz Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    In order to succeed, you must become the game. If you're waiting for the game to become you, you are missing the point.

    Creativity begets criticism.
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  • MisterGrokMisterGrok Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I don't see why switching between similar controls should be all that hard - reassigning A's function to X or the Left Analog stick's function to the Right - it's the same input, essentially.

    I've read numerous articles in Game Developer regarding "sloppy" versus "precise" button pressers (good example of a layout made for sloppy pressers - the GameCube controller), and how many game frames it takes for a button press to register in the game. There's a lot of thought to be put into making sure if you start pressing right your character goes right. I think the ability to reassign controls is the sort of feature that's so easy to implement that it gets put at the bottom of the priority list and just never gets done.

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  • LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    With all due respect, controllers have been set up with main movement on the left for more than 20 years now. If you haven't gotten used to it ... maybe keep trying?

    That said, not buying Rez HD because you're forced to use the left control stick is possibly the worst reasoning I've ever heard in my life. I agree it's really not that big a deal for the devs to put that option in there, but one method you could do is just assign the shot and overdrive buttons to the LT and LB and then just move the left stick with your right thumb.

    Everyone needs to play Rez -- I don't care if you have to play it with your feet.

    ... actually ...

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  • TheFallenLordTheFallenLord Registered User
    edited February 2008
    I've heard some positive feedback on this product for driving games: Kontrolfreek

    It might help, and its not $99 like the wheel. I love the wheel, myself, but a lot of people swear by the controller.

  • mescalitomescalito Registered User
    edited February 2008
    Really? Having trouble using your left thumb? Really?

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  • Dodge AspenDodge Aspen Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    This is bizarre. You say you've been playing games since pong, and you still can't wrap your head around the standard controller layout? Like Lunker said, it's been movement on the left, buttons on the right for more than 2 decades.

    While I agree it'd be nice if developers made every game completely cutomizable from a controls standpoint, it might be tough to do in some games. If really have no knowledge on the subject, but it makes sense that it might be tough to do in some instances.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I understand where the OP is coming from. It would be great if every game allowed for full customisation of the controls. However, it needs to be said that this kind of function would need to be tested in pretty much every possible combination if only to ensure that there are no issues with a particular button mapping. With up to sixteen (16) possible buttons available on a standard controller (for Xbox or PlayStation), that can be a large number of combinations. More than most test teams end up with.

    Since many games are already shipping in a fairly buggy state, gamers have been blaming QA testers for missing egregious bugs. In most cases these bugs were found but ignored by the publishers who wanted to release the game ASAP. I believe that certain things should always be a given (on or off settings for inverting the camera X/Y axis, is one), but that button mapping is not so high on that list. Usually, the default scheme is the one that works 'best' with the given game design. What really sucks is when control schemes are changed over the course of a series.

    I do need to point out that the left thumbstick/d-pad as primary steering control is likely a leftover from RC cars. Where the old remotes that the left stick to steer and the right stick for throttle. Allowing a gamer to switch that is unlikely to be very complicated, but it would deviate from a standard that has been around longer than home video gaming.

  • ItalaxItalax Registered User
    edited February 2008
    How would you hit the face buttons and move at the same time if movement was mapped to the right stick?

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  • El GuacoEl Guaco Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Yes, really, even though it makes me sound retarded. It's not so much that I can't play a game lefty, it's the idea that I know I could do better with my right thumb but it's not even an option. That to me is frustrating. I have to love the game to get past that.




  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I like how the Wiimote dodges this issue entirely and think more controllers should be built like that.

    vvvvvv-dithw.png
  • FatmanGamesFatmanGames Registered User
    edited February 2008
    It's funny that you pick on the Xbox 360...

    It's the only console available that allows you to SET CONTROL DEFAULTS for every game genre AS A USER PROFILE SETTING. Arguably, it's the most flexible console available to allow you to do what you want to do.

    The game makers are at fault for not creating the control options... But damn. The 360 is ahead of everyone else here.
    Spoiler:

  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Italax wrote: »
    How would you hit the face buttons and move at the same time if movement was mapped to the right stick?

    Apparantly he want's the face button to be on the left.

    At first when I started playing non-PC games I thought it was weird to have the movement buttons/stick to the left since keyboards have the arrow keys to the right. Nowadays it doesn't really matter because the PC games I play all use WASD for movement.

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  • El GuacoEl Guaco Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Speaking of RC cars, I just remembered another one that irked me terribly. I tried the demo of Ace Combat 6. The part that they got right was the inverted y-axis. The part that my brain couldn't fix was that the left stick controlled the elevators & ailerons. This doesn't sound so bad does it? I fly RC airplanes and the controls are setup such that the throttle/rudder are the left stick and the elevator/ailerons are the right stick. ALWAYS. So for me having this flipped was anti-intuitive and a constant brain cramp. I felt like a lefty being forced by his teachers to write with his right hand.

    Again, it's not all games, it's just some games where it would make sense to *ME* to have them flipped, and if you want to look down your nose at me for it, I guess that's your prerogative.




  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    El Guaco wrote: »
    Speaking of RC cars, I just remembered another one that irked me terribly. I tried the demo of Ace Combat 6. The part that they got right was the inverted y-axis. The part that my brain couldn't fix was that the left stick controlled the elevators & ailerons. This doesn't sound so bad does it? I fly RC airplanes and the controls are setup such that the throttle/rudder are the left stick and the elevator/ailerons are the right stick. ALWAYS. So for me having this flipped was anti-intuitive and a constant brain cramp. I felt like a lefty being forced by his teachers to write with his right hand.

    So.... you use sticks with both thumbs already? Yet you can't control normal video games that don't involve flying RC-style?

    I'm missing something here.

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  • Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    El Guaco wrote: »
    Speaking of RC cars, I just remembered another one that irked me terribly. I tried the demo of Ace Combat 6. The part that they got right was the inverted y-axis. The part that my brain couldn't fix was that the left stick controlled the elevators & ailerons. This doesn't sound so bad does it? I fly RC airplanes and the controls are setup such that the throttle/rudder are the left stick and the elevator/ailerons are the right stick. ALWAYS. So for me having this flipped was anti-intuitive and a constant brain cramp. I felt like a lefty being forced by his teachers to write with his right hand.

    So.... you use sticks with both thumbs already? Yet you can't control normal video games that don't involve flying RC-style?

    I'm missing something here.


    So you drive an American car with a manual transmission, here drive this japanese car

    oh, you play right handed guitar? here play this left handed one

    Oh, you bat right? Here, stand left

    oh, you skate regular? Skate goofy...

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  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Some company once made a gamepad that was completely modular - you could switch around the placement of the face buttons, the analog sticks, and the Dpad. It let you move around the buttons, sticks, and dpad - but you could also just switch the left and right analog sticks if you liked. It was for the PS2 and oXbox. Can't remember what it was called though.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Bendery wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    El Guaco wrote: »
    Speaking of RC cars, I just remembered another one that irked me terribly. I tried the demo of Ace Combat 6. The part that they got right was the inverted y-axis. The part that my brain couldn't fix was that the left stick controlled the elevators & ailerons. This doesn't sound so bad does it? I fly RC airplanes and the controls are setup such that the throttle/rudder are the left stick and the elevator/ailerons are the right stick. ALWAYS. So for me having this flipped was anti-intuitive and a constant brain cramp. I felt like a lefty being forced by his teachers to write with his right hand.

    So.... you use sticks with both thumbs already? Yet you can't control normal video games that don't involve flying RC-style?

    I'm missing something here.


    So you drive an American car with a manual transmission, here drive this japanese car

    Actually, it sounds more like "so you drive an American car with a manual transmission, here, ride this horse."

    Since few if any games to my knowledge use RC-style controls, I'd think there would be a lot more adjustments to make other than using the proper stick.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Bendery wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    El Guaco wrote: »
    Speaking of RC cars, I just remembered another one that irked me terribly. I tried the demo of Ace Combat 6. The part that they got right was the inverted y-axis. The part that my brain couldn't fix was that the left stick controlled the elevators & ailerons. This doesn't sound so bad does it? I fly RC airplanes and the controls are setup such that the throttle/rudder are the left stick and the elevator/ailerons are the right stick. ALWAYS. So for me having this flipped was anti-intuitive and a constant brain cramp. I felt like a lefty being forced by his teachers to write with his right hand.

    So.... you use sticks with both thumbs already? Yet you can't control normal video games that don't involve flying RC-style?

    I'm missing something here.


    So you drive an American car with a manual transmission, here drive this japanese car

    Actually, it sounds more like "so you drive an American car with a manual transmission, here, ride this horse."

    Since few if any games to my knowledge use RC-style controls, I'd think there would be a lot more adjustments to make other than using the proper stick.

    I interpreted it more as trying to do something you normally do but backwards, i only made those comparisons because I know how it is. i used to play initial D for hours upon hours a day, then when i got my first car with a manual transmission... well... "shit this is weird with the gear shift on the right"

    headphones2.jpg
  • El GuacoEl Guaco Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    El Guaco wrote: »
    Speaking of RC cars, I just remembered another one that irked me terribly. I tried the demo of Ace Combat 6. The part that they got right was the inverted y-axis. The part that my brain couldn't fix was that the left stick controlled the elevators & ailerons. This doesn't sound so bad does it? I fly RC airplanes and the controls are setup such that the throttle/rudder are the left stick and the elevator/ailerons are the right stick. ALWAYS. So for me having this flipped was anti-intuitive and a constant brain cramp. I felt like a lefty being forced by his teachers to write with his right hand.

    So.... you use sticks with both thumbs already? Yet you can't control normal video games that don't involve flying RC-style?

    I'm missing something here.

    You missed the point. The controls were basically reversed left/right for what is a "standard" in RC flying. So for me it was a struggle, and one that prevented me from enjoying the demo, and subsequently from buying the game.

    If you guys are having a hard time grasping what I'm talking about, do this. Grab your mouse, and put it on the left side of your keyboard. Use the mouse with your left hand only. Tell me how long you can go without putting it back on the "normal" right hand side. (If you're a lefty do the opposite.) That's how I feel about the controller layout sometimes. Sure, I can get used to it, but I know I'd do better and enjoy myself more if I could flip it.




  • PemulisPemulis Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    slash000 wrote: »
    Some company once made a gamepad that was completely modular - you could switch around the placement of the face buttons, the analog sticks, and the Dpad. It let you move around the buttons, sticks, and dpad - but you could also just switch the left and right analog sticks if you liked. It was for the PS2 and oXbox. Can't remember what it was called though.

    Yeah, wasn't that the Phoenix Revolution for PS2? Good idea, but the thing felt like a cheap piece of crap.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    El Guaco wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    El Guaco wrote: »
    Speaking of RC cars, I just remembered another one that irked me terribly. I tried the demo of Ace Combat 6. The part that they got right was the inverted y-axis. The part that my brain couldn't fix was that the left stick controlled the elevators & ailerons. This doesn't sound so bad does it? I fly RC airplanes and the controls are setup such that the throttle/rudder are the left stick and the elevator/ailerons are the right stick. ALWAYS. So for me having this flipped was anti-intuitive and a constant brain cramp. I felt like a lefty being forced by his teachers to write with his right hand.

    So.... you use sticks with both thumbs already? Yet you can't control normal video games that don't involve flying RC-style?

    I'm missing something here.

    You missed the point. The controls were basically reversed left/right for what is a "standard" in RC flying. So for me it was a struggle, and one that prevented me from enjoying the demo, and subsequently from buying the game.

    If you guys are having a hard time grasping what I'm talking about, do this. Grab your mouse, and put it on the left side of your keyboard. Use the mouse with your left hand only. Tell me how long you can go without putting it back on the "normal" right hand side. (If you're a lefty do the opposite.) That's how I feel about the controller layout sometimes. Sure, I can get used to it, but I know I'd do better and enjoy myself more if I could flip it.

    I guess I see what you mean. The problem is that technically, game pads aren't righty OR lefty, they're ambidextrous. You have to have coordination in both hands to use them, and righties and lefties alike have used them without much complaint for over 20 years. Your situation is a bit unique, I'm afraid.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Pemulis wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    Some company once made a gamepad that was completely modular - you could switch around the placement of the face buttons, the analog sticks, and the Dpad. It let you move around the buttons, sticks, and dpad - but you could also just switch the left and right analog sticks if you liked. It was for the PS2 and oXbox. Can't remember what it was called though.

    Yeah, wasn't that the Phoenix Revolution for PS2? Good idea, but the thing felt like a cheap piece of crap.

    Yeah, that's the one:
    Spoiler:


    I never used it, but I figured it might be useful for anyone who may want to change the controller layout of various things.


    'course there's nothing like that for the current gen.

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    slash000 wrote: »
    Pemulis wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    Some company once made a gamepad that was completely modular - you could switch around the placement of the face buttons, the analog sticks, and the Dpad. It let you move around the buttons, sticks, and dpad - but you could also just switch the left and right analog sticks if you liked. It was for the PS2 and oXbox. Can't remember what it was called though.

    Yeah, wasn't that the Phoenix Revolution for PS2? Good idea, but the thing felt like a cheap piece of crap.

    Yeah, that's the one:
    Spoiler:


    I never used it, but I figured it might be useful for anyone who may want to change the controller layout of various things.


    'course there's nothing like that for the current gen.

    Now I want to try out Katamari Damacy with that thing.

  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    speaking as a lefty, I play golf to the right, I guitar to the right, I baseball to the right, I hockey to the left, I soccer with my left foot, and I sex with my middle leg.

    I PC game in the only sane way (keyboard on left, mouse on right (mouse on left is completely retarded and obviously not for people with sanity))

    anyway I dunno what I was getting at, but I adapt to my controls. In FPS I play non-inverted, if someone hands me the controller and they're an invert, I'll be playing just fine in a matter of minutes.

    I just think you need to lern 2 control or lern 2 build game console controllers.

    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
  • FanciestWalnutFanciestWalnut Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I like how the Wiimote dodges this issue entirely and think more controllers should be built like that.

    You know unless you don't want to POINT at everything.

  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I like how the Wiimote dodges this issue entirely and think more controllers should be built like that.

    You know unless you don't want to POINT at everything.

    Yeah, cos it only consists of an IR pointer and doesn't in fact feature a d-pad, an analogue stick, several buttons and tilt sensors.

    Even if it didn't have the tilt or the pointer I would STILL love the Wii mote because I find being able to game with my hands apart (rather than clasped in front of me) is much more comfortable.

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  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I like how the Wiimote dodges this issue entirely and think more controllers should be built like that.

    You know unless you don't want to POINT at everything.

    Yeah, cos it only consists of an IR pointer and doesn't in fact feature a d-pad, an analogue stick, several buttons and tilt sensors.

    Even if it didn't have the tilt or the pointer I would STILL love the Wii mote because I find being able to game with my hands apart (rather than clasped in front of me) is much more comfortable.

    I think his issue is with the "several" buttons. On top of that if you don't want your hands clasped then you have access to a d-pad and 2 buttons, 4 buttons if you're a contortionist, and 6 buttons if you have some sort of freaky condition with having fingers longer than your arms.

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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I more meant not having to have my hands together in front of me, you can rest both arms easily on your legs, or have one lazily hanging off the edge of the sofa and you have access to dpad, A and B, as well as Z and C on the nunchuck and an analogue stick.

    I'd love to have a 360 controller that broke in half down the middle (obviously a little redesigned to accomodate that!)

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  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    oh right, I was thinking the main part only, not main part + chuck.


    I dunno, for me though I enjoy the wiimote, for some games I feel I would be able to control things better if my hand positions were locked (ie both hands are holding one piece)

    Or say I'm playing an action game with friends and I want to grab the drink that's in front of me, on other systems I just hold the controller 1 handed, but on the wii I have to think of where or how to best deal with the floppiness of the 2 weights on a string design.

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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I hang the 'chuck over my arm and then flick it back once I've finish with my drink.

    It looks cool.

    (Actually more often than not I do this when drinking and it results in whisky spillage)

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  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I like how the Wiimote dodges this issue entirely and think more controllers should be built like that.

    You know unless you don't want to POINT at everything.

    Yeah, cos it only consists of an IR pointer and doesn't in fact feature a d-pad, an analogue stick, several buttons and tilt sensors.

    Even if it didn't have the tilt or the pointer I would STILL love the Wii mote because I find being able to game with my hands apart (rather than clasped in front of me) is much more comfortable.

    I think his issue is with the "several" buttons. On top of that if you don't want your hands clasped then you have access to a d-pad and 2 buttons, 4 buttons if you're a contortionist, and 6 buttons if you have some sort of freaky condition with having fingers longer than your arms.

    Well, yeah, the Wiimote/Chuck is designed like that, but I was more talking about the "two separate halves of a controller" thing. I mean, imagine a 360 pad divided down the middle with a cord connecting. You could have the requisite two triggers, a joystick, and four (five, if you count Start/Select) buttons on each. It'd be about as reachable as the way the controller is currently set up, and you'd have the added bonus of reversibility, putting your hands in a more comfortable position, etc. etc.

    vvvvvv-dithw.png
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Yeah, I'd love a controller like that and I can imagine them leaning that way "next gen" after the success of the Wi.

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  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I like how the Wiimote dodges this issue entirely and think more controllers should be built like that.

    You know unless you don't want to POINT at everything.

    Yeah, cos it only consists of an IR pointer and doesn't in fact feature a d-pad, an analogue stick, several buttons and tilt sensors.

    Even if it didn't have the tilt or the pointer I would STILL love the Wii mote because I find being able to game with my hands apart (rather than clasped in front of me) is much more comfortable.

    I think his issue is with the "several" buttons. On top of that if you don't want your hands clasped then you have access to a d-pad and 2 buttons, 4 buttons if you're a contortionist, and 6 buttons if you have some sort of freaky condition with having fingers longer than your arms.

    Well, yeah, the Wiimote/Chuck is designed like that, but I was more talking about the "two separate halves of a controller" thing. I mean, imagine a 360 pad divided down the middle with a cord connecting. You could have the requisite two triggers, a joystick, and four (five, if you count Start/Select) buttons on each. It'd be about as reachable as the way the controller is currently set up, and you'd have the added bonus of reversibility, putting your hands in a more comfortable position, etc. etc.

    yeah that kinda makes sense. I imagine it hasn't been done yet for engineering/manufacturing reasons.

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