This is correct. The six hours Adrien(1) is in the box (before emerging as Adrien(1)) is the same six hours that Adrien(0) would be waiting in the hotel room or something.
And how about if you never go back into the box after the six hours pass?
And would an external observor just see a dude randomly appear in the box out of nowhere?
I'm still not quite sure what you're asking.
It is possible for Adrien(1) to alter the timeline to stop Adrien(0) from getting into the box, creating a permanent double. That's what the whole thing at the end is about.
what would happen if you tied long rope that extended far out of the box and connected to some pole or something and then entered the box and went to sleep for the six hours
And what were Abe and the other guy arguing about at the airport(?) near the end, and Abe telling him not to come back?
My understanding of the airport scene (we will call the two guys in the airport group A) is that they have both gone back to when they first started the "failsafe" system, and therefore have have doubles (group currently living. Group A is trying to sabotage the devices so that group B never messes with the stuff in the first place. If that happens, group B will never cease to exist on their timeline as normally happens when you go back, so both groups A and B will live out their lives.
That makes a fair bit of sense, but for the sake of the story it always seemed to me like they had somehow traveled further back in time then when the failsafe had been made. I guess it could be he started the failsafe before he had any concrete evidence that the thing worked, but I thought Abe started the failsafe running when he had decided to tell his buddy AFTER he had already tried it himself and knew it would work.
They said that the point of the device was so he could always go back and stop him from telling his friend, right?
Also, I'm having some issues wrapping my head around the talk of how it was modular and you could take pieces back, was that just so not-abe (I really can't remember dudes name) can set up like 7-8 machines at some point in time (failsafe point would make the most sense because that is how far back they can go) start them up there and keep heading back to that one point multiple times?
The only thing I don't get is that one line near the end where the narrator says that
Aaron found a way to 'refresh' a box so that they are not one-time use. Does he put one box in another box and bring it back with him? It made sense when I was watching it but I forget now.
The first Aaron we see with an earpiece is really early in the movie. It's right before Abe shows him the fungus or protein or whatever it was on the doll. Is that Aaron the narrator Aaron or something? Also, he tells that young kid in the office the engineers over 40 joke, and then in the next scene he pretends to not know the joke when the old guys asks him... He also has the earpiece in right after the first experiment with the watch.
The only thing I don't get is that one line near the end where the narrator says that
Aaron found a way to 'refresh' a box so that they are not one-time use. Does he put one box in another box and bring it back with him? It made sense when I was watching it but I forget now.
Yeah, I sort of covered that in my quote, they made it modular, so that they could fit the components of one broken down inside of another one that was running, then when they get back to the past they could put together the one that they had brought back, get it running then go back to that point a 3rd time (once initially, the second time with the first box and the third time with the second box).
The first Aaron we see with an earpiece is really early in the movie. It's right before Abe shows him the fungus or protein or whatever it was on the doll. Is that Aaron the narrator Aaron or something? Also, he tells that young kid in the office the engineers over 40 joke, and then in the next scene he pretends to not know the joke when the old guys asks him... He also has the earpiece in right after the first experiment with the watch.
So damn confusing...
Then another thing with this.
Aaron's wife tells him to call pest control, and he tells her there are baby birds and you don't want to kill baby birds. She replies that they don't sound like baby birds. So this Aaron that says that likely stuffed that timeline's Aaron up there?
nevermind, I probably just need to watch it a couple times before I ask anything else.
This really was an amazingly well thought out and put together film, and I'm still amazed the writer hasn't done anything else since then. I'd love to see what else they have in them.
I just watched this movie today. I had it for a while, but I only got around to watching it because of this thread. It's a complete mindfuck, but really, really awesome. The timelines available through the wiki explain a lot.
Why was the time travelling Granger in a comatose state? Did they beat the shit out of him and is that why he was on the ground or whatever?
This is intentionally left vague, but it's assumed that because Granger didn't know about the "stay inside the entire time" deal, there was some sort of recursion going on that was tearing his mind apart.
When Aaron first gets out of the machine, he has a weird headache or something, and Abe warns him he needs to stay in the box the entire time.
This movie reminds me of how much I dislike the trend in mainstream movies where everything has to be explained to you like you're a child. It's way more fun to discuss what you think happened with your friends later. :^:
There's some guy's diagram of the timeline here, but I haven't looked over it in detail yet. I think I'll watch this movie a couple more times before I give up and cheat, but just glancing at it...
...he's got nine alternate timelines drawn up, which is way more complicated than most of the discussion I've read so far. I was thinking you could explain the whole movie with three.
There's some guy's diagram of the timeline here, but I haven't looked over it in detail yet. I think I'll watch this movie a couple more times before I give up and cheat, but just glancing at it...
...he's got nine alternate timelines drawn up, which is way more complicated than most of the discussion I've read so far. I was thinking you could explain the whole movie with three.
Most of the timelines on there are more implied than actually portrayed in the movie. It'll make more sense when you read it.
There's some guy's diagram of the timeline here, but I haven't looked over it in detail yet. I think I'll watch this movie a couple more times before I give up and cheat, but just glancing at it...
...he's got nine alternate timelines drawn up, which is way more complicated than most of the discussion I've read so far. I was thinking you could explain the whole movie with three.
The diagram helps a lot in clearing up most of my questions. The one thing i still don't understand is the
stay inside the whole time deal. How long do they need to stay inside the box before they leave the box?
krapst78 on
Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya! You killed my father prepare to die!
Looking for a Hardcore Fantasy Extraction Shooter? - Dark and Darker
There's some guy's diagram of the timeline here, but I haven't looked over it in detail yet. I think I'll watch this movie a couple more times before I give up and cheat, but just glancing at it...
...he's got nine alternate timelines drawn up, which is way more complicated than most of the discussion I've read so far. I was thinking you could explain the whole movie with three.
The diagram helps a lot in clearing up most of my questions. The one thing i still don't understand is the
stay inside the whole time deal. How long do they need to stay inside the box before they leave the box?
The natural state of something inside the box is to bounce back and forth between A (turned on) and B (turned off)— like the weeble. The way it works is if there's a person inside, they can stop the box and get out at A instead of B. If they don't stop the box precisely at A, it causes some sort of synch issue or something and apparently hurts like a bitch.
It's one of the areas where the (fake) physics is a bit fuzzier.
The natural state of something inside the box is to bounce back and forth between A (turned on) and B (turned off)— like the weeble. The way it works is if there's a person inside, they can stop the box and get out at A instead of B. If they don't stop the box precisely at A, it causes some sort of synch issue or something and apparently hurts like a bitch.
It's one of the areas where the (fake) physics is a bit fuzzier.
Ah ok, so now it makes a little more sense, but how long do they need to stay in the box and how did they know that they had to stay in that long. I thought that Abe was only able to approximate the time when they used the watch in the experiment. My friend thinks that they have to stay in the box at least for as long as they want to travel back. So if they are traveling back 6 hours then they would need to stay in the box for 6 hours. If that is the case, and they turn off the machine earlier than 6 hours, is it possible for them to get out at B?
Also, looking at the diagram in the link, there seems to be some inconsistencies with timeline 7 and 8. Abe(3) enters the box but is later able to turn on another box in that same timeline. Shouldn't Abe(3) cease to exist in that timeline once he enters the box?
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The natural state of something inside the box is to bounce back and forth between A (turned on) and B (turned off)— like the weeble. The way it works is if there's a person inside, they can stop the box and get out at A instead of B. If they don't stop the box precisely at A, it causes some sort of synch issue or something and apparently hurts like a bitch.
It's one of the areas where the (fake) physics is a bit fuzzier.
Ah ok, so now it makes a little more sense, but how long do they need to stay in the box and how did they know that they had to stay in that long. I thought that Abe was only able to approximate the time when they used the watch in the experiment. My friend thinks that they have to stay in the box at least for as long as they want to travel back. So if they are traveling back 6 hours then they would need to stay in the box for 6 hours. If that is the case, and they turn off the machine earlier than 6 hours, is it possible for them to get out at B?
Also, looking at the diagram in the link, there seems to be some inconsistencies with timeline 7 and 8. Abe(3) enters the box but is later able to turn on another box in that same timeline. Shouldn't Abe(3) cease to exist in that timeline once he enters the box?
It seems like there is a small chance that the box will kick the user out of the cycle each time around. Since they are only going through one half of a cycle, it's not an issue. If they hung out in the box longer, they will start going forward in time again. Once they sit in it for an additional six hours, they will have a small chance of getting kicked out, then start going back in time again. Instead of sitting in the box for 6 hours, they could sit in the box for 18 (one and a half loops) and end up in the past as they normally would have. If they sat in there through 1300 (on average) twelve hour cycles, then the box would eventually kick them out of the cycle normally.
The natural state of something inside the box is to bounce back and forth between A (turned on) and B (turned off)— like the weeble. The way it works is if there's a person inside, they can stop the box and get out at A instead of B. If they don't stop the box precisely at A, it causes some sort of synch issue or something and apparently hurts like a bitch.
It's one of the areas where the (fake) physics is a bit fuzzier.
Ah ok, so now it makes a little more sense, but how long do they need to stay in the box and how did they know that they had to stay in that long. I thought that Abe was only able to approximate the time when they used the watch in the experiment. My friend thinks that they have to stay in the box at least for as long as they want to travel back. So if they are traveling back 6 hours then they would need to stay in the box for 6 hours. If that is the case, and they turn off the machine earlier than 6 hours, is it possible for them to get out at B?
Your friend is correct, for the most part. If you stay in the box any longer or shorter than time B-A, you'll wind up after A. To get out at B, you would need to wait 0 or 12 or any even multiple of 6 hours, although this is never demonstrated with a person. It is apparently possible to get out at any time and wind up later than A, but it is apparently very bad for you— this is apparently what happened to Granger.
As for how they knew, they didn't actually— see Aaron's splitting headache.
Also, looking at the diagram in the link, there seems to be some inconsistencies with timeline 7 and 8. Abe(3) enters the box but is later able to turn on another box in that same timeline. Shouldn't Abe(3) cease to exist in that timeline once he enters the box?
Now that I can't explain. To be honest, I don't totally understand that diagram :P
It seems like there is a small chance that the box will kick the user out of the cycle each time around. Since they are only going through one half of a cycle, it's not an issue. If they hung out in the box longer, they will start going forward in time again. Once they sit in it for an additional six hours, they will have a small chance of getting kicked out, then start going back in time again. Instead of sitting in the box for 6 hours, they could sit in the box for 18 (one and a half loops) and end up in the past as they normally would have. If they sat in there through 1300 (on average) twelve hour cycles, then the box would eventually kick them out of the cycle normally.
Ah, yes. I forgot about that. This is why the weeble doesn't experience an infinite amount of time in the box.
The natural state of something inside the box is to bounce back and forth between A (turned on) and B (turned off)— like the weeble. The way it works is if there's a person inside, they can stop the box and get out at A instead of B. If they don't stop the box precisely at A, it causes some sort of synch issue or something and apparently hurts like a bitch.
It's one of the areas where the (fake) physics is a bit fuzzier.
Ah ok, so now it makes a little more sense, but how long do they need to stay in the box and how did they know that they had to stay in that long. I thought that Abe was only able to approximate the time when they used the watch in the experiment. My friend thinks that they have to stay in the box at least for as long as they want to travel back. So if they are traveling back 6 hours then they would need to stay in the box for 6 hours. If that is the case, and they turn off the machine earlier than 6 hours, is it possible for them to get out at B?
Your friend is correct, for the most part. If you stay in the box any longer or shorter than time B-A, you'll wind up after A. To get out at B, you would need to wait 0 or 12 or any even multiple of 6 hours, although this is never demonstrated with a person. It is apparently possible to get out at any time and wind up later than A, but it is apparently very bad for you— this is apparently what happened to Granger.
As for how they knew, they didn't actually— see Aaron's splitting headache.
But the time when Aaron says "that was more than a shock", and Abe says "you got out too soon", Abe seems to have just got out of it (assuming he got out at the right time, that'd be at point . Or was he waiting there six hours?
Your friend is correct, for the most part. If you stay in the box any longer or shorter than time B-A, you'll wind up after A. To get out at B, you would need to wait 0 or 12 or any even multiple of 6 hours, although this is never demonstrated with a person. It is apparently possible to get out at any time and wind up later than A, but it is apparently very bad for you— this is apparently what happened to Granger.
As for how they knew, they didn't actually— see Aaron's splitting headache.
But the time when Aaron says "that was more than a shock", and Abe says "you got out too soon", Abe seems to have just got out of it (assuming he got out at the right time, that'd be at point . Or was he waiting there six hours?
Actually at that point Abe got out exactly at point A because he waited the proper 6 hours and 30 minutes (machine was started at 8:49am that day, point A, and they entered the box at 3:19 pm later that day, point . Abe woke up after 6 hours, waited, and turned off the machine at the correct time so he arrived at 8:49am (point A), right as the box was turned on. Aaron, didn't wait long enough, he probably turned the machine off 1 minute too soon, and appeared at around 8:50am (Point A + 1 minute) in the room. So in actuality, Abe just waited 1 minute in that room.
krapst78 on
Hello! My name is Inigo Montoya! You killed my father prepare to die!
Looking for a Hardcore Fantasy Extraction Shooter? - Dark and Darker
Your friend is correct, for the most part. If you stay in the box any longer or shorter than time B-A, you'll wind up after A. To get out at B, you would need to wait 0 or 12 or any even multiple of 6 hours, although this is never demonstrated with a person. It is apparently possible to get out at any time and wind up later than A, but it is apparently very bad for you— this is apparently what happened to Granger.
As for how they knew, they didn't actually— see Aaron's splitting headache.
But the time when Aaron says "that was more than a shock", and Abe says "you got out too soon", Abe seems to have just got out of it (assuming he got out at the right time, that'd be at point . Or was he waiting there six hours?
Actually at that point Abe got out exactly at point A because he waited the proper 6 hours and 30 minutes (machine was started at 8:49am that day, point A, and they entered the box at 3:19 pm later that day, point . Abe woke up after 6 hours, waited, and turned off the machine at the correct time so he arrived at 8:49am (point A), right as the box was turned on. Aaron, didn't wait long enough, he probably turned the machine off 1 minute too soon, and appeared at around 8:50am (Point A + 1 minute) in the room. So in actuality, Abe just waited 1 minute in that room.
Yeah, what he said. Aaron just didn't realize how important it is to be punctual.
How do you read this timeline diagram? Should you follow the arrows or just read linearly through each timeline?
I think it's more of a holistic thing. There isn't really a way to read it linearly, since different parts of different timelines are shown at different times in the film.
Short, focuses on one basic concept, throws a twist, the end.
Also
I never understood the scene where the two guys come into the garage and say "We can get some more work down around here when you guys don't lock us out" or whatever, and then eventually abe says "Wait what did you call him when he came in?" and then the other guy is like "He didn't tell you? ok get this Rachel's ex-boyfriend comes to my birthday party with a shotgun" and then the scene ends. What the fuck was that?
And then in the next scene they are at a fountain looking for a cat? This was some random ass shit and I didn't understand what the hell happened. Can someone explain
I think their handwriting suffers later on because all their fine motor skills are affected. Either they're slightly out of sych with regular time (there are always leaks) or it's a strain on their bodies. Either way, neither can build another machine by themselves - their hands/minds aren't steady. Maybe that's why Aaron has to commission the French team at the end, sacrificing the device's secrecy.
The time machines are side by side and can be any size, right? What would happen if you put a time machine (occupied by a person) inside another time machine? Would you go back two days instead of one without those pesky dehydration problems?
The time machines are side by side and can be any size, right? What would happen if you put a time machine (occupied by a person) inside another time machine? Would you go back two days instead of one without those pesky dehydration problems?
Answering machine Aaron mentions that they figure out how to nest them in such a way that they aren't one-time use. You only go back to the point where you flipped the box on though, and I think there was also a comment about a field-within-a-field being redundant, which means Aaron was taking a box back with him and starting it up so he could make another trip back to the same point.
I think their handwriting suffers later on because all their fine motor skills are affected. Either they're slightly out of sych with regular time (there are always leaks) or it's a strain on their bodies. Either way, neither can build another machine by themselves - their hands/minds aren't steady. Maybe that's why Aaron has to commission the French team at the end, sacrificing the device's secrecy.
The time machines are side by side and can be any size, right? What would happen if you put a time machine (occupied by a person) inside another time machine? Would you go back two days instead of one without those pesky dehydration problems?
In the end, Aaron is building a big box. (What's he say, "Every two meters"?) However a box can't ever take you to before you switch it on, and you always have to experience at least as much time as you want to go back. Since the field "ungrounds" you, inside a field there's nothing to unground from.
WRT the psychological effects, my personal explanation is that the synch issues only manifest at sub-nuclear level, which only becomes apparent inside a quantum machine like a brain. That won't account for the bleeding, though.
Yeah, Veegeezee's got it right.
Since once you enter the box, you stop existing in that timeline, the box isn't necessary afterwards. There's nothing to stop you from taking a used box back inside another one, and starting it again. Basically a box double.
Short, focuses on one basic concept, throws a twist, the end.
Also
I never understood the scene where the two guys come into the garage and say "We can get some more work down around here when you guys don't lock us out" or whatever, and then eventually abe says "Wait what did you call him when he came in?" and then the other guy is like "He didn't tell you? ok get this Rachel's ex-boyfriend comes to my birthday party with a shotgun" and then the scene ends. What the fuck was that?
And then in the next scene they are at a fountain looking for a cat? This was some random ass shit and I didn't understand what the hell happened. Can someone explain
In that scene they come in, and one of them calls Aaron "Hero," because he stopped Rachel's ex from doing anything with his shotgun. Abe only clues in a bit later because it is mentioned so casually.
After that they're arguing because Abe couldn't find time to talk to Aaron alone until that point. Poorly edited though, at that juncture.
Short, focuses on one basic concept, throws a twist, the end.
Also
I never understood the scene where the two guys come into the garage and say "We can get some more work down around here when you guys don't lock us out" or whatever, and then eventually abe says "Wait what did you call him when he came in?" and then the other guy is like "He didn't tell you? ok get this Rachel's ex-boyfriend comes to my birthday party with a shotgun" and then the scene ends. What the fuck was that?
And then in the next scene they are at a fountain looking for a cat? This was some random ass shit and I didn't understand what the hell happened. Can someone explain
In that scene they come in, and one of them calls Aaron "Hero," because he stopped Rachel's ex from doing anything with his shotgun. Abe only clues in a bit later because it is mentioned so casually.
After that they're arguing because Abe couldn't find time to talk to Aaron alone until that point. Poorly edited though, at that juncture.
Yeah, the fountain scene is about where it starts to get really confusing.
Bow before me and kiss my feet for I am your superior.
Also, I understood Donnie Darko more than most.
Primer kicks ass BTW.
Great!
Explain it
Which one? Primer or Donnie Darko? I just have a knack for thinking way too much about things, so when I watch a movie, especially a complex twisted plot like these two, I pay more attention and calculate all the options at hand. A am teh smart. SMRT.
I mean I could explain them, but who's to say I wouldn't be pulling my answers off the internet? There's already sites out there that have already dissected both movies and explained them to the fullest.
Bow before me and kiss my feet for I am your superior.
Also, I understood Donnie Darko more than most.
Primer kicks ass BTW.
Great!
Explain it
Which one? Primer or Donnie Darko? I just have a knack for thinking way too much about things, so when I watch a movie, especially a complex twisted plot like these two, I pay more attention and calculate all the options at hand. A am teh smart. SMRT.
I mean I could explain them, but who's to say I wouldn't be pulling my answers off the internet? There's already sites out there that have already dissected both movies and explained them to the fullest.
No, I think he actually wants you to explain it to him.
Seriously, the best I could find was that giant timeline chart, and even there it didn't explain several parts I could have sworn were important, and was written by a man whose first language was probably not English.
The worst was the interview with the creator. I know I'm gonna need to see it again! But go down those plot points! I have work to doooo.
Posts
It is possible for Adrien(1) to alter the timeline to stop Adrien(0) from getting into the box, creating a permanent double. That's what the whole thing at the end is about.
They said that the point of the device was so he could always go back and stop him from telling his friend, right?
Also, I'm having some issues wrapping my head around the talk of how it was modular and you could take pieces back, was that just so not-abe (I really can't remember dudes name) can set up like 7-8 machines at some point in time (failsafe point would make the most sense because that is how far back they can go) start them up there and keep heading back to that one point multiple times?
So damn confusing...
At least that is how I understood it.
That was intensely cool and now I need an essay written by the creators on what the hell happened.
Then another thing with this.
nevermind, I probably just need to watch it a couple times before I ask anything else.
When Aaron first gets out of the machine, he has a weird headache or something, and Abe warns him he needs to stay in the box the entire time.
And The Prestige.
Watched it last night, and I'm way impressed.
There's some guy's diagram of the timeline here, but I haven't looked over it in detail yet. I think I'll watch this movie a couple more times before I give up and cheat, but just glancing at it...
The diagram helps a lot in clearing up most of my questions. The one thing i still don't understand is the
Looking for a Hardcore Fantasy Extraction Shooter? - Dark and Darker
It's one of the areas where the (fake) physics is a bit fuzzier.
Also, looking at the diagram in the link, there seems to be some inconsistencies with timeline 7 and 8. Abe(3) enters the box but is later able to turn on another box in that same timeline. Shouldn't Abe(3) cease to exist in that timeline once he enters the box?
Looking for a Hardcore Fantasy Extraction Shooter? - Dark and Darker
As for how they knew, they didn't actually— see Aaron's splitting headache.
Now that I can't explain. To be honest, I don't totally understand that diagram :P
Looking for a Hardcore Fantasy Extraction Shooter? - Dark and Darker
I think it's more of a holistic thing. There isn't really a way to read it linearly, since different parts of different timelines are shown at different times in the film.
Short, focuses on one basic concept, throws a twist, the end.
Also
And then in the next scene they are at a fountain looking for a cat? This was some random ass shit and I didn't understand what the hell happened. Can someone explain
The time machines are side by side and can be any size, right? What would happen if you put a time machine (occupied by a person) inside another time machine? Would you go back two days instead of one without those pesky dehydration problems?
I think.
WRT the psychological effects, my personal explanation is that the synch issues only manifest at sub-nuclear level, which only becomes apparent inside a quantum machine like a brain. That won't account for the bleeding, though.
Yeah, Veegeezee's got it right.
After that they're arguing because Abe couldn't find time to talk to Aaron alone until that point. Poorly edited though, at that juncture.
Bow before me and kiss my feet for I am your superior.
Also, I understood Donnie Darko more than most.
Primer kicks ass BTW.
Click here to see the ANIMATED version of this signature too big for the forums! :winky:
Great!
Explain it
Yeah, the fountain scene is about where it starts to get really confusing.
Which one? Primer or Donnie Darko? I just have a knack for thinking way too much about things, so when I watch a movie, especially a complex twisted plot like these two, I pay more attention and calculate all the options at hand. A am teh smart. SMRT.
I mean I could explain them, but who's to say I wouldn't be pulling my answers off the internet? There's already sites out there that have already dissected both movies and explained them to the fullest.
Click here to see the ANIMATED version of this signature too big for the forums! :winky:
No, I think he actually wants you to explain it to him.
The worst was the interview with the creator. I know I'm gonna need to see it again! But go down those plot points! I have work to doooo.