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Primaries: Democralypse Now!

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Posts

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    Economists Weigh McCain’s Gas-Tax Plan
    The United States the has lowest gasoline taxes among industrialized countries. It also has the highest gasoline consumption level in the world. Energy experts say the two are related.

    I wonder how many supercomputers these experts had to use to figure out that little gem

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Economists Weigh McCain’s Gas-Tax Plan
    The United States the has lowest gasoline taxes among industrialized countries. It also has the highest gasoline consumption level in the world. Energy experts say the two are related.

    I wonder how many supercomputers these experts had to use to figure out that little gem

    Are energy experts like analysts in that they state the obvious?

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with the South per se.

    But it has become less of a swing region lately, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more candidates from the midwest, presuming that becomes a more competitive battleground.

    There seems a general belief among pols that they need to pander the hell out of the south to get anywhere, and their hamfisted methodology includes support for some of the worst southern stereotypes - rah-rah fundamentalism, xenophobia, covert racism. See also: Bush v McCain, 2000. See also: "Well, he's not a Muslim as far as I know."

    I would like to see a president win while losing pretty much the entirety of the south. If the south lost some of its perceived importance, pols would pander to other areas with less toxic stereotypes. I'd rather presidential nominees be lavishing praise on corn subsidies, or praising west coast hippies, or extolling the virtues of tea and lobster. Better than endorsing racism and intolerance.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2008
    You have to start somewhere, and that somewhere is really basic if your audience is stupid.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2008
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Economists Weigh McCain’s Gas-Tax Plan
    The United States the has lowest gasoline taxes among industrialized countries. It also has the highest gasoline consumption level in the world. Energy experts say the two are related.

    I wonder how many supercomputers these experts had to use to figure out that little gem

    I think it overstates it a bit. There are several reasons why Americans drive all over the damned place, and low gas taxes are merely one factor. If you hiked gas taxes to European levels, I think the US would still lead in gasoline consumption. We'd all just be poorer and our economy would eat itself.

    Unless hiking the gas tax would also make our nation contract geographically.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with the South per se.

    But it has become less of a swing region lately, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more candidates from the midwest, presuming that becomes a more competitive battleground.

    I don't know, man. President Johanssen?

    Somehow "Oh yeah dere, Pakistan, you just come 'round the White House dis weekend for some Ludafisk and we'll hash dis mess o' potatoes between you and India all out now, hey?" just lacks a certain...gravitas

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • DukiDuki Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Economists Weigh McCain’s Gas-Tax Plan
    The United States the has lowest gasoline taxes among industrialized countries. It also has the highest gasoline consumption level in the world. Energy experts say the two are related.

    I wonder how many supercomputers these experts had to use to figure out that little gem

    Yeah. That shit blew my mind.

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Economists Weigh McCain’s Gas-Tax Plan
    The United States the has lowest gasoline taxes among industrialized countries. It also has the highest gasoline consumption level in the world. Energy experts say the two are related.

    I wonder how many supercomputers these experts had to use to figure out that little gem

    I think it overstates it a bit. There are several reasons why Americans drive all over the damned place, and low gas taxes are merely one factor. If you hiked gas taxes to European levels, I think the US would still lead in gasoline consumption. We'd all just be poorer and our economy would eat itself.

    Unless hiking the gas tax would also make our nation contract geographically.
    Well, it would probably encourage mass transit, as in other nations with higher gas prices, since one big engine for 400 people is more efficient than 400 small ones over the same distance, whatever that distance may be. "Mah country is tooo big" is generally an overstated objection.

    More to the point, I just thought that wording was funny.

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Guys we can totally trust the oil companies not to just raise prices in the event of a tax cut!

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Roger Simon of The Politico, with the single dumbest (actually stupid category, not outrageously offensive category) statement in the media this year, as well as a one sentence diagnosis of everything wrong with our politics and media:
    When I saw a video of Hillary Clinton downing a shot of Crown Royal whiskey in Bronko’s Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday night, I was delighted to see that she has finally learned what campaigning for president is all about.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    AS_hellion wrote: »
    Hillary plans her first 100 days, never mind that she's 136 delegates behind

    Hillary sketches out her first 100 days as a president. She is 136 delegates behind (by the AP count) and she still acts like she is ahead. That is some serious optimism right there.

    Hmm.. I wonder if that could be considered a verbal contract.

    A verbal contract with America!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • MatrijsMatrijs Registered User
    edited April 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    Economists Weigh McCain’s Gas-Tax Plan
    The United States the has lowest gasoline taxes among industrialized countries. It also has the highest gasoline consumption level in the world. Energy experts say the two are related.

    I wonder how many supercomputers these experts had to use to figure out that little gem

    I think it overstates it a bit. There are several reasons why Americans drive all over the damned place, and low gas taxes are merely one factor. If you hiked gas taxes to European levels, I think the US would still lead in gasoline consumption. We'd all just be poorer and our economy would eat itself.

    Unless hiking the gas tax would also make our nation contract geographically.

    Actually, it might start to reverse the trend of suburbanization and foster creation of effective mass transit systems (I'm looking at you, Southern California). While people can't reduce the overall size of the country, they can reduce the distance they have to travel (by living closer together), and they can reduce the amount of fossil fuels they consume, even holding transit distance constant, by using mass transportation.

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Guys we can totally trust the oil companies not to just raise prices in the event of a tax cut!

    Raise in the sense of replacing the portion of the cost at the pump removed by the tax with a price hike?

    Don't be ridiculous. No corporation would attempt to profit by maintaining a price that the market has already shown it can bear.

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • AS_hellionAS_hellion Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Roger Simon of The Politico, with the single dumbest (actually stupid category, not outrageously offensive category) statement in the media this year, as well as a one sentence diagnosis of everything wrong with our politics and media:
    When I saw a video of Hillary Clinton downing a shot of Crown Royal whiskey in Bronko’s Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday night, I was delighted to see that she has finally learned what campaigning for president is all about.

    There isn't enough D: in the world

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Roger Simon of The Politico, with the single dumbest (actually stupid category, not outrageously offensive category) statement in the media this year, as well as a one sentence diagnosis of everything wrong with our politics and media:
    When I saw a video of Hillary Clinton downing a shot of Crown Royal whiskey in Bronko’s Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday night, I was delighted to see that she has finally learned what campaigning for president is all about.

    She downed a shot of Canadian whisky and Fox hasn't called her a traitor yet?

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • Chake99Chake99 Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    AS_hellion wrote: »
    Roger Simon of The Politico, with the single dumbest (actually stupid category, not outrageously offensive category) statement in the media this year, as well as a one sentence diagnosis of everything wrong with our politics and media:
    When I saw a video of Hillary Clinton downing a shot of Crown Royal whiskey in Bronko’s Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday night, I was delighted to see that she has finally learned what campaigning for president is all about.

    There isn't enough D: in the world

    I thought it was sort of funny until I realized the guy was serious. o.0.

    And in other news: Canada; going after the U.S. Senate, one liver at a time.

    Hic Rhodus, Hic Salta.
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Roger Simon of The Politico, with the single dumbest (actually stupid category, not outrageously offensive category) statement in the media this year, as well as a one sentence diagnosis of everything wrong with our politics and media:
    When I saw a video of Hillary Clinton downing a shot of Crown Royal whiskey in Bronko’s Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday night, I was delighted to see that she has finally learned what campaigning for president is all about.

    It's 3 AM and a phone is ringing in the White House. It's last call, and Hillary needs a DD.

    tea-1.jpg
  • MatrijsMatrijs Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Guys we can totally trust the oil companies not to just raise prices in the event of a tax cut!

    Raise in the sense of replacing the portion of the cost at the pump removed by the tax with a price hike?

    Don't be ridiculous. No corporation would attempt to profit by maintaining a price that the market has already shown it can bear.

    To be fair to the oil companies (why am I doing this??), intra-market competition would bring the price down. If I'm a Mobil station, now that the Chevron station across the street is only charging 3.99, so long as I can afford to charge 3.98, I will, and so on.

    That, of course, assumes that the various oil companies aren't illegally colluding, which, while quite unlikely, would not be unheard of.

  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Matrijs wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Guys we can totally trust the oil companies not to just raise prices in the event of a tax cut!

    Raise in the sense of replacing the portion of the cost at the pump removed by the tax with a price hike?

    Don't be ridiculous. No corporation would attempt to profit by maintaining a price that the market has already shown it can bear.

    To be fair to the oil companies (why am I doing this??), intra-market competition would bring the price down. If I'm a Mobil station, now that the Chevron station across the street is only charging 3.99, so long as I can afford to charge 3.98, I will, and so on.

    That, of course, assumes that the various oil companies aren't illegally colluding, which, while quite unlikely, would not be unheard of.

    By that logic, gas prices would spiral downwards until they hit the floor of profitability.

    The reality of it is you and the guy across the street realize you can both charge 3.99 without losing customers or profit margins.

    The whole concept that people will undercut each other to keep prices down in a free market assumes no collusion happens and there's a low enough barrier for entry that other people can break into the market if collusion is happening.

    edit: whee, my sleep addled brain missed the last sentance. Yes, oil companies collude. A LOT.

  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Sentry wrote: »
    AS_hellion wrote: »
    Hillary plans her first 100 days, never mind that she's 136 delegates behind

    Hillary sketches out her first 100 days as a president. She is 136 delegates behind (by the AP count) and she still acts like she is ahead. That is some serious optimism right there.

    Hmm.. I wonder if that could be considered a verbal contract.

    A verbal contract with America!

    "She also promised to sign bills he has vetoed to expand federal embryonic stem-cell research "

    Um, can you even DO that? Doesn't it need to be passed again to be up for signing? I don't think you're allowed to just run through the veto stack and retroactively sign them.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    kildy wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    AS_hellion wrote: »
    Hillary plans her first 100 days, never mind that she's 136 delegates behind

    Hillary sketches out her first 100 days as a president. She is 136 delegates behind (by the AP count) and she still acts like she is ahead. That is some serious optimism right there.

    Hmm.. I wonder if that could be considered a verbal contract.

    A verbal contract with America!

    "She also promised to sign bills he has vetoed to expand federal embryonic stem-cell research "

    Um, can you even DO that? Doesn't it need to be passed again to be up for signing? I don't think you're allowed to just run through the veto stack and retroactively sign them.

    Yes, they do have to be passed again, but saying so lets Congress deal with those bills first - so assuming that the same (or better) proportions in Congress, they'll easily be the first couple things she does.

    I seem to recall the first things that Bill Clinton signed into law being similar bills - ones which had passed Congress multiple times and the first Bush vetoed.

    (Note: Hillary Clinton has taken credit for assisting in getting said bills passed during her husband's administration - at one point, they were listed on her website as accomplishments of hers. For all I know they might still be :?)

    camo_sig2.png
  • LibrarianThorneLibrarianThorne Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    MKR wrote: »
    Can we all just agree the whole section of the country isn't worth all these posts and get on with things?

    Hey, fuck you too.

  • AresProphetAresProphet don't call it a fight when you know it's a warRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    It's 3 AM and a phone is ringing in the White House. It's last call, and Hillary needs a DD.

    Sigged so hard.

    the first bit of advice that you gave me that I liked
    was they're too strong, too strong
  • LionLion Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Roger Simon of The Politico, with the single dumbest (actually stupid category, not outrageously offensive category) statement in the media this year, as well as a one sentence diagnosis of everything wrong with our politics and media:
    When I saw a video of Hillary Clinton downing a shot of Crown Royal whiskey in Bronko’s Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday night, I was delighted to see that she has finally learned what campaigning for president is all about.


    Politics is better when you're drunk.

    EDIT: Also, there's a debate tomorrow night and I was thinking I'd take a shot every time "bitter" "elitist" or "out of touch" came up but then I realized this might result in my death.

    PSN: WingedLion | XBL: Winged Lion
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Matrijs wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Guys we can totally trust the oil companies not to just raise prices in the event of a tax cut!

    Raise in the sense of replacing the portion of the cost at the pump removed by the tax with a price hike?

    Don't be ridiculous. No corporation would attempt to profit by maintaining a price that the market has already shown it can bear.

    To be fair to the oil companies (why am I doing this??), intra-market competition would bring the price down. If I'm a Mobil station, now that the Chevron station across the street is only charging 3.99, so long as I can afford to charge 3.98, I will, and so on.

    That, of course, assumes that the various oil companies aren't illegally colluding, which, while quite unlikely, would not be unheard of.
    Unheard of?

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Roger Simon of The Politico, with the single dumbest (actually stupid category, not outrageously offensive category) statement in the media this year, as well as a one sentence diagnosis of everything wrong with our politics and media:
    When I saw a video of Hillary Clinton downing a shot of Crown Royal whiskey in Bronko’s Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday night, I was delighted to see that she has finally learned what campaigning for president is all about.

    She downed a shot of Canadian whisky and Fox hasn't called her a traitor yet?

    http://library.syr.edu/digital/exhibits/c/cartoonists/johnston/61.jpg
    I can't wait for the attack ads implying that she doesn't like American alcohol.

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I'd like to point out that, when I was in Scoland in 2000, gas cost the equivilent of $6 per gallon. And Scotland is a small nation with considerable oil production from the North Sea.

    The bitter (!!) irony of our current mass transit situation is that a lot of cities had trollies and trains and such, but they were dismantled because car companies were powerful and wanted people to be buying new cars every three years or so. I know Minneapolis used to have a significant trolly system that was torn up and discarded... and now we're fighting with our governor to fund light rail between us and St. Paul, the most profitable and frequently travelled trip in the metropolitan area.

    Anyways.

    Chris Matthews is in the tank for McCain. His appreciation for Obama only lasted long enough for Clinton to become largely irrelevant (which was his real agenda anyway). Seeing Matthews tonight on Verdict, all he had was an icy glare when Obama was mentioned. Looks like someone is bitter about his beloved Pennsylvanians being called bitter. He quoted fucking ARG and predicts a double-digit Clinton win.

    Good. I was uncomfortable with Matthews praising Obama anyway. He's a total prick.

    So, on MyDD, I've started handling lunatic anti-Obama (and supposedly pro-Clinton) diaries by listing off their Clinton/Republican talking points. Here's the list I've come up with.
    Obama is sure a fancy talker: Check
    Obama lives in a fantasy world: Check
    Student loans and now-dead mother previously being denied coverage doesn't make you not elite: Check
    Obama superdelegate (John Kerry) sucks: Check
    Obama has a large and leet... vocabulary: Check
    Obama totally microtargets constituencies with his broad-based appeal and non-differing message: Check
    McCain had a good point: Check
    Typical: Check
    Loud religion makes me uncomfortable: Check
    Clinton knows where the phone in the White House is: Check
    We should all support the president's war to support the troops: Check (er, wait a minute...)
    Black Democrats "smeared Clintons as racist": Check
    Senator Clinton is a victim: Check
    Obama is a demogogue or a minstrel: Check
    Obama campaigns negatively: Check
    Obama not really against the war: Check
    Reverend Wright hates America: Check
    Obama & supporters projecting what they do onto Clinton & her supporters: Check
    Obama tells the truth about disaffected rural voters on sociological terms: Check
    Obama (heart) Reagan 4EVA!: Check
    Obama does exactly what all politicians do: Check
    I'm not bitter!: Check
    Obama is George W. Bush in blackface: Check
    I love Hillary Clinton and she'll totally win: Check
    Obama is a Republican: Check
    Obama's wants you to die from cancer: Check
    Obama supporters are mindless drones: Check
    Obama supporters are pathological liars: Check
    Obama's infiltration of manufacturing unions has reached Orwellian proportions: Check

    ...and that was just from three diaries.

    Anyways. Michelle Obama on Colbert. She purty.

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • AS_hellionAS_hellion Registered User
    edited April 2008
    CNN has the newest polls showing that Obama has maintained or advanced his lead in the upcoming primaries

    It really is so incredibly refreshing to see that people all over the US seem to be as sick and tired of mud-slinging campaigns as I am.

    Edit: See then I see the stuff thats going on in myDD and it makes me lose faith in humanity all over again.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Roger Simon of The Politico, with the single dumbest (actually stupid category, not outrageously offensive category) statement in the media this year, as well as a one sentence diagnosis of everything wrong with our politics and media:
    When I saw a video of Hillary Clinton downing a shot of Crown Royal whiskey in Bronko’s Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday night, I was delighted to see that she has finally learned what campaigning for president is all about.

    She downed a shot of Canadian whisky and Fox hasn't called her a traitor yet?

    I think if you google "Clinton drinks to NAFTA" you'll find that whole set of blog entries.

    I don't know if it has hit the mainstream articles yet though.

    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • Irond WillIrond Will Dragonmaster Cambridge. MASuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited April 2008
    AS_hellion wrote: »
    CNN has the newest polls showing that Obama has maintained or advanced his lead in the upcoming primaries

    It really is so incredibly refreshing to see that people all over the US seem to be as sick and tired of mud-slinging campaigns as I am.
    "All over the US" means everywhere but Pennsylvania apparently.

    Wqdwp8l.png
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu fiddy too Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Roger Simon of The Politico, with the single dumbest (actually stupid category, not outrageously offensive category) statement in the media this year, as well as a one sentence diagnosis of everything wrong with our politics and media:
    When I saw a video of Hillary Clinton downing a shot of Crown Royal whiskey in Bronko’s Restaurant and Lounge in Crown Point, Ind., on Saturday night, I was delighted to see that she has finally learned what campaigning for president is all about.

    She downed a shot of Canadian whisky and Fox hasn't called her a traitor yet?

    I think if you google "Clinton drinks to NAFTA" you'll find that whole set of blog entries.

    I don't know if it has hit the mainstream articles yet though.
    Satire just can't keep ahead of reality these days

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Satire just can't keep ahead of reality these days

    Such is the Spirit of the Age.

    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • MatrijsMatrijs Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Matrijs wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Guys we can totally trust the oil companies not to just raise prices in the event of a tax cut!

    Raise in the sense of replacing the portion of the cost at the pump removed by the tax with a price hike?

    Don't be ridiculous. No corporation would attempt to profit by maintaining a price that the market has already shown it can bear.

    To be fair to the oil companies (why am I doing this??), intra-market competition would bring the price down. If I'm a Mobil station, now that the Chevron station across the street is only charging 3.99, so long as I can afford to charge 3.98, I will, and so on.

    That, of course, assumes that the various oil companies aren't illegally colluding, which, while quite unlikely, would not be unheard of.
    Unheard of?

    That's a phrase. People say that, don't they?

  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Elitist people.

    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • HembotHembot Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Commercial

    edit:
    oops hit the button to fast. This is an Obama response to the Hillary commercial we saw a few pages back.

  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Old.

    But I'll cheer it again anyway. Fantastic.

    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • HembotHembot Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Really? I didn't see it. My bad. Still a good commercial. I like the play on the other one with the gas signs and locked fence.

  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I prefer awesome things to be posted multiple times.

    Being walkers with the dawn and morning,
    Walkers with the sun and morning, we are not afraid of night,
    Nor days of gloom, nor darkness -
    Being walkers with the sun and morning.
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    My question is what are the bitter elitist people doing?

  • RustRust __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2008
    My question is what are the bitter elitist people doing?

    Posting on the Internet.

This discussion has been closed.