FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
Big post will be up tomorrow evening
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GumpyThere is alwaysa greater powerRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
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this has me interested
No reveals?
Can I ask for more details here. No revealing who you are in PMs as well? Just game thread? No revealing what side you are on (Evil/good)? and even if there is backstory to such a rule existing
Can I ask for more details here. No revealing who you are in PMs as well? Just game thread? No revealing what side you are on (Evil/good)? and even if there is backstory to such a rule existing
My last phalla, people revealed what faction they were, which was kind of against the point of the godsdamned fucking game. You aren't supposed to publicly say who you are, because 1) No one will believe you if your innocent anyways, and 2) that's not how the game is to be played. You can create cadres and whatnot, just nothing in the thread.
Can I ask for more details here. No revealing who you are in PMs as well? Just game thread? No revealing what side you are on (Evil/good)? and even if there is backstory to such a rule existing
My last phalla, people revealed what faction they were, which was kind of against the point of the godsdamned fucking game. You aren't supposed to publicly say who you are, because 1) No one will believe you if your innocent anyways, and 2) that's not how the game is to be played. You can create cadres and whatnot, just nothing in the thread.
While I understand your frustration, isn't deception part of the game? I mean, there's an inherent risk to revealing your role. If you say you're the seer, and you actually are the seer, then the bad guys will kill you (or at least try). If you're a bad guy, and you get targeted by the seer, how else can you defend yourself without trying to claim a different role to the thread?
I'm not sure I understand how we can expect there to be any "gaming" if people aren't allowed to claim roles for themselves, whether true or false.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Can I ask for more details here. No revealing who you are in PMs as well? Just game thread? No revealing what side you are on (Evil/good)? and even if there is backstory to such a rule existing
My last phalla, people revealed what faction they were, which was kind of against the point of the godsdamned fucking game. You aren't supposed to publicly say who you are, because 1) No one will believe you if your innocent anyways, and 2) that's not how the game is to be played. You can create cadres and whatnot, just nothing in the thread.
While I understand your frustration, isn't deception part of the game? I mean, there's an inherent risk to revealing your role. If you say you're the seer, and you actually are the seer, then the bad guys will kill you (or at least try). If you're a bad guy, and you get targeted by the seer, how else can you defend yourself without trying to claim a different role to the thread?
I'm not sure I understand how we can expect there to be any "gaming" if people aren't allowed to claim roles for themselves, whether true or false.
I'm just bitter because people fucked up my game. Granted, I hadn't ironed out all the bugs, but it was essentially the most ambitious Phalla to date, I had never run one, and between my newbishness and screwups, assholes breaking the game didn't help. (they weren't strategic reveals, they were more "Well, I'm this faction, so what the fuck does that mean?", when if they read the flavor text, they would have gotten it.)
Can I ask for more details here. No revealing who you are in PMs as well? Just game thread? No revealing what side you are on (Evil/good)? and even if there is backstory to such a rule existing
My last phalla, people revealed what faction they were, which was kind of against the point of the godsdamned fucking game. You aren't supposed to publicly say who you are, because 1) No one will believe you if your innocent anyways, and 2) that's not how the game is to be played. You can create cadres and whatnot, just nothing in the thread.
While I understand your frustration, isn't deception part of the game? I mean, there's an inherent risk to revealing your role. If you say you're the seer, and you actually are the seer, then the bad guys will kill you (or at least try). If you're a bad guy, and you get targeted by the seer, how else can you defend yourself without trying to claim a different role to the thread?
I'm not sure I understand how we can expect there to be any "gaming" if people aren't allowed to claim roles for themselves, whether true or false.
I'm just bitter because people fucked up my game. Granted, I hadn't ironed out all the bugs, but it was essentially the most ambitious Phalla to date, I had never run one, and between my newbishness and screwups, assholes breaking the game didn't help. (they weren't strategic reveals, they were more "Well, I'm this faction, so what the fuck does that mean?", when if they read the flavor text, they would have gotten it.)
Ok, so can you clarify for us what exactly constitutes an inappropriate reveal (and perhaps add that to the OP)? For instance, if I get seered as Jack the Ripper, how can I reasonably be expected to defend myself?
I think the general rule for when a reveal doesn't break the game is that it's only appropriate when 1) your role has become public knowledge, and 2) you are in the process of being voted out of the game.
When that happens, if you're the Jack the Ripper, you're pretty much expected to start talking in morose period language and threatening people with vengeance from beyond the grave. However, even in that situation, it's absolutely verboten to turn around and say, "Well, I'm going to die anyway, might as well sell out my teammates!"
If you've been essentially revealed and are about to die to some public mechanic, then I think it's fine to reveal your own identity ... just so long as you're already on death row. This is just my own take on it though, and Fencing is free to overrule or disagree.
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El SkidThe frozen white northRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
LOL. I just had a funny vision of how this game could end up going:
Round 1:
Me: RU is a good guy
RU: Skid is a good guy!
Gumpy: Chamberlain is a bad guy!
Chamberlain: Gumpy is a bad guy!
....
Hey guys, why is fencingsax's account deleted?
I think the general rule for when a reveal doesn't break the game is that it's only appropriate when 1) your role has become public knowledge, and 2) you are in the process of being voted out of the game.
When that happens, if you're the Jack the Ripper, you're pretty much expected to start talking in morose period language and threatening people with vengeance from beyond the grave. However, even in that situation, it's absolutely verboten to turn around and say, "Well, I'm going to die anyway, might as well sell out my teammates!"
If you've been essentially revealed and are about to die to some public mechanic, then I think it's fine to reveal your own identity ... just so long as you're already on death row. This is just my own take on it though, and Fencing is free to overrule or disagree.
Selling out your teamates is absolutely poor form and I would certainly expect that kind of behaviour to be curttailed. That being said, part of the game is for the bad guys to sow confusion and discord so that the village turns on itself, and that, sometimes, can be accomplished by bad guys claiming to be something they're not, in order to get a hapless villager to trust them or what have you.
Mafia games are all about deception and misdirection. If you take away that ability (i.e. you can't make any type of claim outside of your vote) then you're setting yourself up for nothing more than a long series of guessing games, taking out the strategy.
Sorry if I'm overanalysing this, I just want to make sure I understand what Sax's intentions are, is all. I mean, if I start to speculate about what kind of roles exist and start making spurious claims about the roles of other people, am I playing against the "spirit of the game"?
I dun think it's anything that strategic. The last game sort of really was just a trainwreck. At the first sign of accusation, people would say, "Wait, but my PM says I'm <BLANK>. What does that even mean?"
We lost about six days of activity in a row because, for whatever strange reason, people just revealed themselves as baddies. Like -- there wasn't any strategic reasoning. Just people that didn't quite understand the rules, and instead of taking it to PMs with Fencing, posted in the thread that they were an evil stonecutter and whom they were cut in with. e_e
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
edited April 2008
You can 'reveal' whatever you want about yourself. The question is whether doing so will hurt your team or not. If it does, you shouldn't.
Good: 'Well, okay, I'm so-and-so, but I can protect people (may or may not be true)! Don't vote me off!'
Bad: 'So, who else is so-and-so?' 'Me.' 'I am!' 'If being a so-and-so is wrong, I don't wanna be right.'
(And then the team is annihilated.)
I dun think it's anything that strategic. The last game sort of really was just a trainwreck. At the first sign of accusation, people would say, "Wait, but my PM says I'm <BLANK>. What does that even mean?"
We lost about six days of activity in a row because, for whatever strange reason, people just revealed themselves as baddies. Like -- there wasn't any strategic reasoning. Just people that didn't quite understand the rules, and instead of taking it to PMs with Fencing, posted in the thread that they were an evil stonecutter and whom they were cut in with. e_e
Well I wasn't there for that, so that sounds just ridiculous. I think the rule should be amended to say "no discussion of your role PM in the thread. If you have any questions, PM the GM directly."
So basically what you're saying is that there were people in the last game who were just poor sports. Banning that kind of behaviour I can certainly get behind.
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this has me interested
No reveals?
Can I ask for more details here. No revealing who you are in PMs as well? Just game thread? No revealing what side you are on (Evil/good)? and even if there is backstory to such a rule existing
While I understand your frustration, isn't deception part of the game? I mean, there's an inherent risk to revealing your role. If you say you're the seer, and you actually are the seer, then the bad guys will kill you (or at least try). If you're a bad guy, and you get targeted by the seer, how else can you defend yourself without trying to claim a different role to the thread?
I'm not sure I understand how we can expect there to be any "gaming" if people aren't allowed to claim roles for themselves, whether true or false.
Ok, so can you clarify for us what exactly constitutes an inappropriate reveal (and perhaps add that to the OP)? For instance, if I get seered as Jack the Ripper, how can I reasonably be expected to defend myself?
Just to be safe. :P
So mean.
When that happens, if you're the Jack the Ripper, you're pretty much expected to start talking in morose period language and threatening people with vengeance from beyond the grave. However, even in that situation, it's absolutely verboten to turn around and say, "Well, I'm going to die anyway, might as well sell out my teammates!"
If you've been essentially revealed and are about to die to some public mechanic, then I think it's fine to reveal your own identity ... just so long as you're already on death row. This is just my own take on it though, and Fencing is free to overrule or disagree.
Round 1:
Me: RU is a good guy
RU: Skid is a good guy!
Gumpy: Chamberlain is a bad guy!
Chamberlain: Gumpy is a bad guy!
....
Hey guys, why is fencingsax's account deleted?
:P
Selling out your teamates is absolutely poor form and I would certainly expect that kind of behaviour to be curttailed. That being said, part of the game is for the bad guys to sow confusion and discord so that the village turns on itself, and that, sometimes, can be accomplished by bad guys claiming to be something they're not, in order to get a hapless villager to trust them or what have you.
Mafia games are all about deception and misdirection. If you take away that ability (i.e. you can't make any type of claim outside of your vote) then you're setting yourself up for nothing more than a long series of guessing games, taking out the strategy.
Sorry if I'm overanalysing this, I just want to make sure I understand what Sax's intentions are, is all. I mean, if I start to speculate about what kind of roles exist and start making spurious claims about the roles of other people, am I playing against the "spirit of the game"?
We lost about six days of activity in a row because, for whatever strange reason, people just revealed themselves as baddies. Like -- there wasn't any strategic reasoning. Just people that didn't quite understand the rules, and instead of taking it to PMs with Fencing, posted in the thread that they were an evil stonecutter and whom they were cut in with. e_e
Good: 'Well, okay, I'm so-and-so, but I can protect people (may or may not be true)! Don't vote me off!'
Bad: 'So, who else is so-and-so?' 'Me.' 'I am!' 'If being a so-and-so is wrong, I don't wanna be right.'
(And then the team is annihilated.)
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
Well I wasn't there for that, so that sounds just ridiculous. I think the rule should be amended to say "no discussion of your role PM in the thread. If you have any questions, PM the GM directly."
So basically what you're saying is that there were people in the last game who were just poor sports. Banning that kind of behaviour I can certainly get behind.
and then people threw a shit-fit when that person was, expectedly, voted off
WHAT THE FULMINATE, PEOPLE