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MMO Guild management thread: Iron Fist, Velvet Glove, Wet noodle

ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
edited May 2008 in MMO Extravaganza
This is the general catch all thread for all of your guild management discussion. Ranging from how to recruit in a recruitment drought, to loot systems, to how to abuse your power for sexual favors.

Supposedly threads like this should have some sort of resource list:

Stolen shamelessly from the WoW guild relation forums: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=11124&sid=1
Spoiler:

http://www.tankspot.com/rt/news.php The Round Table, a sort of Chamber of Commerce for guild leaders to meet and discuss guild leadership. Also does podcasts and in game meetings.

EJ discussions on guild bank spending and revenue generation:
http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t25127-generating_guild_bank_money/
http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t25035-how_effectively_use_guild_bank_revenue/

Wow Lemmings: A text parser that scans the guild recruitment forums to let you narrow down your options. http://www.wowlemmings.com/

Terra Nova: A bunch of academics who spend 90% of their time fellating Second Life, but sometimes they produce useful articles. http://terranova.blogs.com/

If anyone else has any general info I'll be happy to add it. I'm also looking for resources that aren't WoW focused or other resources for specific MMO's.

Thomamelas on
«13

Posts

  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I hope you know how difficult it was to resist posting something right after your first reservation post.

  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I understand.

    So to start off the discussion....guild breaks. Does anyone else's guild sometimes declare a "This week we're taking off." holiday? We do it and it seems to be super effective. It reduces in guild tensions and we always seem to come back really focused and energized.

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Ha ha, GMs are all fucked and have no lives.

    Of more relevance, there's a very heavy focus on guild raid management here. That's pretty universal?

    snm_sig.jpg
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    More a side effect of raiding culture. Raids generally require more structure in a guild to work correctly. You also tend to get a more focused and driven subset of population. This thread isn't raid focused and as I said, I will gladly add other resources, either external or even well written posts from this forum and thread.

    I have a raid/WoW bias but I accept it and I'm willing to add additional viewpoints.

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'm curious to see how traditional raid techniques end up applying to scenario-based PvP in games like AoC and WAR. Not much to add yet.

    snm_sig.jpg
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Morskittar wrote: »
    I'm curious to see how traditional raid techniques end up applying to scenario-based PvP in games like AoC and WAR. Not much to add yet.

    As purely hypothetical discussions I suspect your most successful guilds will be ones who adopt a more general staff approach. Over all GM handles logistics, staff under him handle field command. My understanding is that it's fairly common in EvE for that kind of structure.

  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    I'm curious to see how traditional raid techniques end up applying to scenario-based PvP in games like AoC and WAR. Not much to add yet.

    As purely hypothetical discussions I suspect your most successful guilds will be ones who adopt a more general staff approach. Over all GM handles logistics, staff under him handle field command. My understanding is that it's fairly common in EvE for that kind of structure.

    Absolutely.

    Does WoW have "Arena Guilds"?

    snm_sig.jpg
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    I'm curious to see how traditional raid techniques end up applying to scenario-based PvP in games like AoC and WAR. Not much to add yet.

    As purely hypothetical discussions I suspect your most successful guilds will be ones who adopt a more general staff approach. Over all GM handles logistics, staff under him handle field command. My understanding is that it's fairly common in EvE for that kind of structure.

    Absolutely.

    Does WoW have "Arena Guilds"?

    Not that I've heard of, but I'm not a heavy PvPer. It wouldn't shock me to find out about a few. There are of course Twink guilds and PvP focused guilds but that specific I don't know.

  • Fig-DFig-D Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    I'm curious to see how traditional raid techniques end up applying to scenario-based PvP in games like AoC and WAR. Not much to add yet.

    As purely hypothetical discussions I suspect your most successful guilds will be ones who adopt a more general staff approach. Over all GM handles logistics, staff under him handle field command. My understanding is that it's fairly common in EvE for that kind of structure.

    Absolutely.

    Does WoW have "Arena Guilds"?

    Yep.

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    SteamID - Fig-D :: Xbox Live - Fig D :: PSN - Fig-D
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Fig-D wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    I'm curious to see how traditional raid techniques end up applying to scenario-based PvP in games like AoC and WAR. Not much to add yet.

    As purely hypothetical discussions I suspect your most successful guilds will be ones who adopt a more general staff approach. Over all GM handles logistics, staff under him handle field command. My understanding is that it's fairly common in EvE for that kind of structure.

    Absolutely.

    Does WoW have "Arena Guilds"?

    Yep.

    I'm curious, if we have anyone here from one or a more general PvP guild how they structure themselves.

  • iadrianiadrian Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    I understand.

    So to start off the discussion....guild breaks. Does anyone else's guild sometimes declare a "This week we're taking off." holiday? We do it and it seems to be super effective. It reduces in guild tensions and we always seem to come back really focused and energized.

    We did this on occasion in my previous guild, and it was always effective. People got a chance to just goof off, and came back with a much better raid-game than they had before the break. It's a great way to prevent raid burnout, in my experience.

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  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    If you're going to run an RP/Raid guild, don't try to do both at the same time.

    If you're going to run a guild, don't be a drama whore!

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
  • Fig-DFig-D Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Fig-D wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    I'm curious to see how traditional raid techniques end up applying to scenario-based PvP in games like AoC and WAR. Not much to add yet.

    As purely hypothetical discussions I suspect your most successful guilds will be ones who adopt a more general staff approach. Over all GM handles logistics, staff under him handle field command. My understanding is that it's fairly common in EvE for that kind of structure.

    Absolutely.

    Does WoW have "Arena Guilds"?

    Yep.

    I'm curious, if we have anyone here from one or a more general PvP guild how they structure themselves.

    I'm certainly not, but one of the guys I run with was in a 10 person Arenas guild. They worked on finding the best combinations of classes/specs and players/style-of-play/attitudes to achieve the best ratings. When the second series of badge gear hit with the ZA patch, they would also organize a Kara full clear every Tuesday and Heroic Slave Pens followed by Heroic Underbog 4 days a week in order to get badges quickly. Those guys were NUTS, but most of them stopped playing and that was the end of that.

    WeskerSig.jpg
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  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    If you're going to run an RP/Raid guild, don't try to do both at the same time.

    If you're going to run a guild, don't be a drama whore!

    Why? Something to discuss. What happened that triggered this statement? This isn't a chat thread, lets let people learn something from this.

  • AngryAngry Slang Pope Breakbeat MinisterRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    I understand.

    So to start off the discussion....guild breaks. Does anyone else's guild sometimes declare a "This week we're taking off." holiday? We do it and it seems to be super effective. It reduces in guild tensions and we always seem to come back really focused and energized.

    we did a break for the first bit of summer once, because apparently people play less in the summer when they don't have school. pretty much ruined our guild forever as there was so much splintering.

    ah well, fuck em all.

    GW2: Doomunit.5462
  • MorskittarMorskittar Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Fig-D wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Morskittar wrote: »
    I'm curious to see how traditional raid techniques end up applying to scenario-based PvP in games like AoC and WAR. Not much to add yet.

    As purely hypothetical discussions I suspect your most successful guilds will be ones who adopt a more general staff approach. Over all GM handles logistics, staff under him handle field command. My understanding is that it's fairly common in EvE for that kind of structure.

    Absolutely.

    Does WoW have "Arena Guilds"?

    Yep.

    I'm curious, if we have anyone here from one or a more general PvP guild how they structure themselves.

    Hypothetically (as in pre-beta/pre-release), similar to how you've described; with "strategic" leaders and "tactical" leaders.

    snm_sig.jpg
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Angry wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    I understand.

    So to start off the discussion....guild breaks. Does anyone else's guild sometimes declare a "This week we're taking off." holiday? We do it and it seems to be super effective. It reduces in guild tensions and we always seem to come back really focused and energized.

    we did a break for the first bit of summer once, because apparently people play less in the summer when they don't have school. pretty much ruined our guild forever as there was so much splintering.

    ah well, fuck em all.

    How long did you take? Where were you in terms of progression? I'm curious how your guild was different.

  • AngryAngry Slang Pope Breakbeat MinisterRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    at that point we were near the top of the server for advancement. it split right in two basically with people who were fine not raiding 3-4 days a week being most of the old timers, who didn't join a raiding guild and the people who were aghahasdfh advancement advancement loot who did join a raiding guild. basically the old members were like whatever, not a big deal while the newer members got their panties in a bunch.

    we took a break for about a month. the people getting really upset, but we could not have honestly even fielded a good raid for that month anyways.

    GW2: Doomunit.5462
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Angry wrote: »
    at that point we were near the top of the server for advancement. it split right in two basically with people who were fine not raiding 3-4 days a week being most of the old timers, who didn't join a raiding guild and the people who were aghahasdfh advancement advancement loot who did join a raiding guild. basically the old members were like whatever, not a big deal while the newer members got their panties in a bunch.

    we took a break for about a month. the people getting really upset, but we could not have honestly even fielded a good raid for that month anyways.

    In your estimation do you think it was the break itself or the duration of the break? And if you don't mind, why?

  • Soviet WaffleSoviet Waffle Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I heard the best way to mana a guild is to give all the loot to your friends

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  • ZetxZetx Fixer, Lurker Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    If anyone else has any general info I'll be happy to add it. I'm also looking for resources that aren't WoW focused or other resources for specific MMO's.

    Yeah, the thread title kinda worried me when 99% of the content of the OP was WoW-related. (Then there was the one where it briefly mentioned SL...)

    I worry for the day where even PA considers WoW the only MMO. D:

    (This is not to incite flaming or trolling or what have you, it's just an observation.)

    steam_sig.png
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I heard the best way to mana a guild is to give all the loot to your friends

    No derails till at least page ten. Shoo.

  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zetx wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    If anyone else has any general info I'll be happy to add it. I'm also looking for resources that aren't WoW focused or other resources for specific MMO's.

    Yeah, the thread title kinda worried me when 99% of the content of the OP was WoW-related. (Then there was the one where it briefly mentioned SL...)

    I worry for the day where even PA considers WoW the only MMO. D:

    (This is not to incite flaming or trolling or what have you, it's just an observation.)

    I understand, and to be honest I expect a lot of WoW talk here. I'd be willing to put something up on CoX bases but I know next to nothing about them. I have an SG of 1 in that game. I did save two slots on the hopes we'd get lots of other resources.

  • AngryAngry Slang Pope Breakbeat MinisterRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Angry wrote: »
    at that point we were near the top of the server for advancement. it split right in two basically with people who were fine not raiding 3-4 days a week being most of the old timers, who didn't join a raiding guild and the people who were aghahasdfh advancement advancement loot who did join a raiding guild. basically the old members were like whatever, not a big deal while the newer members got their panties in a bunch.

    we took a break for about a month. the people getting really upset, but we could not have honestly even fielded a good raid for that month anyways.

    In your estimation do you think it was the break itself or the duration of the break? And if you don't mind, why?

    i think it was a combination of the two.

    some stubborn people didn't think we should take a break and that we should have simply recruited people to replace the raiders who wouldn't be playing, despite it being a pretty considerable amount of our core raiders. these guys were very upset when the guild leadership said hey, we aren't organizing anything for a while.

    then there were the people who at first were fine with the break, but since it was undefined and started extending past when they thought it would they started joining the first group of vocal naysayers.

    in the end, the guild basically split in two. the people upset about the non raiding leaving to form some other guild focused on raiding while the rest of us continued on about our business. the splinter guild was told that outside a few vocal members they were all welcome back to join us if they wanted, which in the end most of them did. in the end though we became a more raid oriented guild, which focused on always having the recruits to keep the raids going. this led to recruiting people i would rather kick in the face than talk to and our guild was such a clusterfuck of different groups of people that hated each other that i was not surprised at all to hear that the guild recently folded in.

    GW2: Doomunit.5462
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Angry wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Angry wrote: »
    at that point we were near the top of the server for advancement. it split right in two basically with people who were fine not raiding 3-4 days a week being most of the old timers, who didn't join a raiding guild and the people who were aghahasdfh advancement advancement loot who did join a raiding guild. basically the old members were like whatever, not a big deal while the newer members got their panties in a bunch.

    we took a break for about a month. the people getting really upset, but we could not have honestly even fielded a good raid for that month anyways.

    In your estimation do you think it was the break itself or the duration of the break? And if you don't mind, why?

    i think it was a combination of the two.

    some stubborn people didn't think we should take a break and that we should have simply recruited people to replace the raiders who wouldn't be playing, despite it being a pretty considerable amount of our core raiders. these guys were very upset when the guild leadership said hey, we aren't organizing anything for a while.

    then there were the people who at first were fine with the break, but since it was undefined and started extending past when they thought it would they started joining the first group of vocal naysayers.

    in the end, the guild basically split in two. the people upset about the non raiding leaving to form some other guild focused on raiding while the rest of us continued on about our business. the splinter guild was told that outside a few vocal members they were all welcome back to join us if they wanted, which in the end most of them did. in the end though we became a more raid oriented guild, which focused on always having the recruits to keep the raids going. this led to recruiting people i would rather kick in the face than talk to and our guild was such a clusterfuck of different groups of people that hated each other that i was not surprised at all to hear that the guild recently folded in.

    Intresting, how long did it last after the split? Did the split make it temporarily better, worse or neutral?

  • CorvusCorvus Winter crow VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    You know, for our CoH groups, we basically don't need to manage the Super/Villain Groups (guilds) at all. They pretty much run along just fine without need for much direction. But then, its a very different game then some of the others.

  • AngryAngry Slang Pope Breakbeat MinisterRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    oh the guild lasted at least a half a year afterwards. i was personally done with it though. i would often have atleast 10-15 guild members ignored and spent a good amount of time with guild chat turned off. i stuck to the people in the guild that i liked and didn't even try to socialize with those that i didn't. i was offered a leadership role numerous times to try and bring me back in, but i told them no thanks. i was not alone in this, a lot of the older membership just secluded themselves from the rest of the guild and stopped raiding.

    GW2: Doomunit.5462
  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Corvus wrote: »
    You know, for our CoH groups, we basically don't need to manage the Super/Villain Groups (guilds) at all. They pretty much run along just fine without need for much direction. But then, its a very different game then some of the others.

    I forget what they call it but how do you manage the SG funding? Is it pure donation or do you set up fund raising nights?

  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Angry wrote: »
    oh the guild lasted at least a half a year afterwards. i was personally done with it though. i would often have atleast 10-15 guild members ignored and spent a good amount of time with guild chat turned off. i stuck to the people in the guild that i liked and didn't even try to socialize with those that i didn't. i was offered a leadership role numerous times to try and bring me back in, but i told them no thanks. i was not alone in this, a lot of the older membership just secluded themselves from the rest of the guild and stopped raiding.

    It sounds like a slow death. Were they raiding to the end? What was your guild structure? How were the officers organized?

  • CorvusCorvus Winter crow VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    You know, for our CoH groups, we basically don't need to manage the Super/Villain Groups (guilds) at all. They pretty much run along just fine without need for much direction. But then, its a very different game then some of the others.

    I forget what they call it but how do you manage the SG funding? Is it pure donation or do you set up fund raising nights?

    Basically, CoX has two currencies, Influence, which is what players use individually to buy stuff, and Prestige, which is what SGs use to buy stuff. We basically run it on a voluntary basis, though at one point we had a rule that people had to have earned a certain amount of Prestige before they got rights to use all the stuff in our base, like bins for enhancements and so on. I don't think we're strictly observing that these days.

    One of the crappier things about CoX is that as your level got higher, the amount of prestige you earned started to reduce the amount of influence your earned if you had "Super Group Mode" on, which is required to earn prestige. After a certain level, you earned zero influence if in SG mode. Fortunately, the developers are about to change that so your influence earning rate never drops below 50% while in SG mode.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Our guild has only taken one break so far. We scheduled it right after Mag went down, to resume when SSC began.

    We generally dislike scheduling a break while working on a boss, as it forces peopel to relearn habits, wasting time, but taking a break right before the first attempts on a new boss can work wonders.

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  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Corvus wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    You know, for our CoH groups, we basically don't need to manage the Super/Villain Groups (guilds) at all. They pretty much run along just fine without need for much direction. But then, its a very different game then some of the others.

    I forget what they call it but how do you manage the SG funding? Is it pure donation or do you set up fund raising nights?

    Basically, CoX has two currencies, Influence, which is what players use individually to buy stuff, and Prestige, which is what SGs use to buy stuff. We basically run it on a voluntary basis, though at one point we had a rule that people had to have earned a certain amount of Prestige before they got rights to use all the stuff in our base, like bins for enhancements and so on. I don't think we're strictly observing that these days.

    One of the crappier things about CoX is that as your level got higher, the amount of prestige you earned started to reduce the amount of influence your earned if you had "Super Group Mode" on, which is required to earn prestige. After a certain level, you earned zero influence if in SG mode. Fortunately, the developers are about to change that so your influence earning rate never drops below 50% while in SG mode.

    If you don't mind my asking, how did you arrive at the amount needed for the privileges and how was the decision made?

  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    As far as I know, either Accualt or Scooter just thought about it a bit and came to a number. I'm not in the PA supergroups anymore, but the way The Circle of Jerks does it is just "Run in SG mode until you hit around level 30, then do whatever you want", since SG mode doesn't impact your money gain until 25. Super-conservative base design also means that we pay about a quarter of the rent the PA groups do, since I don't think our base is designed for PvP raiding that probably won't come for a long time.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    Far too often guild leadership is filled with slots for people who at the top of the social ladder or are simply friends with the guild masters.

    I've been in many guilds where the officer core was filled with incompetence based on this.

    I am proud to say that I hold the officers in my guild to extremely high standards, which they meet.

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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Far too often guild leadership is filled with slots for people who at the top of the social ladder or are simply friends with the guild masters.

    I've been in many guilds where the officer core was filled with incompetence based on this.

    I am proud to say that I hold the officers in my guild to extremely high standards, which they meet.

    My guild's officers (including me) are just dudes my guild leader thinks are cool. It rocks.

    Of course, its a pvp/arena only guild....

    1208768734831.jpg
  • HarshLanguageHarshLanguage Registered User
    edited May 2008
    korodullin wrote: »
    As far as I know, either Accualt or Scooter just thought about it a bit and came to a number. I'm not in the PA supergroups anymore, but the way The Circle of Jerks does it is just "Run in SG mode until you hit around level 30, then do whatever you want", since SG mode doesn't impact your money gain until 25. Super-conservative base design also means that we pay about a quarter of the rent the PA groups do, since I don't think our base is designed for PvP raiding that probably won't come for a long time.

    The prestige number for promotion was pretty arbitrary, just needed to be high enough that we wouldn't be giving storage-take rights to someone really new and unknown. It's never been an issue, except for minor times when new folks take SG ranks too seriously -- having come from games where group ranks and permissions were more important. CoH/V is a very laid-back game as far as this stuff is concerned. (And in most other ways too.)

    Rent isn't a big deal. At this point, there's not enough non-raid stuff to even spend our extra prestige on. And buying serious raid stuff or secure plots is silly considering the rather hopeless state of base raids at the moment, so we haven't done that. We can raid for fun, though, if we ever wanted. Hopefully in the near future there will be more to do with non-PVP bases.

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  • ThomamelasThomamelas “Three films a day, three books a week and records of great music would be enough to make me happy to the day I die.” Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Far too often guild leadership is filled with slots for people who at the top of the social ladder or are simply friends with the guild masters.

    I've been in many guilds where the officer core was filled with incompetence based on this.

    I am proud to say that I hold the officers in my guild to extremely high standards, which they meet.

    What standards and how do you hold them to them? What is your office churn rate like?

  • deadteardeadtear Registered User
    edited May 2008
    For the record: Fuck being one of the 30 or so in charge of 3000-5000 people. It's a second job, that I don't get paid for, and haven't for almost 2 years (except for a spaceship worth more than most used cars :|. I might write up something quick and dirty later, but ask questions if you want/have any. Preemptive yes I'm still playing, and yes it's EvE, and yes it's goonswarm

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