It's pretty obvious people were just buying them to resell or whatever. I mean the game sales have been clear enough to prove so. People just aren't that interested in a 600$ console.
I doubt we will see alot of price dropping for the PS3 given how much it costs them anyway. We haven't even really had a PSP price drop yet. :?
Didn't it take Sony at least 3 or 4 years for them to lower the price of the PS2 to near $200? Bad example, I know, considering the PS2 was shit hot around then, but it shows they're stubborn when they're sure about things.
chaossoldier on
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Damn I would have expected some crazy prices near to Christmas.
Any graphs for Wii?
Would an editted picture of Nintendo execs all wearing moneyhats suffice? The fact that my now elderly stepfather and his family knew about the system speaks volumes, though I don't think the percentage of people getting Wiis for eBay was as high due to perceptions of Nintendo vs. Sony prelaunch.
Seems to me most Wii sales around here go directly to eBay.
Damn I would have expected some crazy prices near to Christmas.
Any graphs for Wii?
Would an editted picture of Nintendo execs all wearing moneyhats suffice? The fact that my now elderly stepfather and his family knew about the system speaks volumes, though I don't think the percentage of people getting Wiis for eBay was as high due to perceptions of Nintendo vs. Sony prelaunch.
Seems to me most Wii sales around here go directly to eBay.
Is that where the seller is?
Couldn't you just, kick his fucking ass for buying six wiis to sell them?
It's pretty obvious people were just buying them to resell or whatever. I mean the game sales have been clear enough to prove so. People just aren't that interested in a 600$ console.
I doubt we will see alot of price dropping for the PS3 given how much it costs them anyway. We haven't even really had a PSP price drop yet. :?
Didn't it take Sony at least 3 or 4 years for them to lower the price of the PS2 to near $200? Bad example, I know, considering the PS2 was shit hot around then, but it shows they're stubborn when they're sure about things.
Yes but...
A lot of the cost in the PS3 is based off 3 items. XDR RAM, CELL CPU, and blu-ray drive. XDR ram is still rare and it's made by the people that made RAMBUS so it's not going to price drop, IBM states that cell yields are pretty horrid and they can't supply all markets (and the PS3 is not their priority), and blu-ray is just a debacle.
They really have to get those components under control to price drop.
The other parts, RSX (aka 7800 nvidia or g71) and GDDR3 have already hit rock bottom in price because they are old and newer/better tech has been out for a while or is on the horrizon.
The question is how fast can the expensive parts be made efficiently.
It's pretty obvious people were just buying them to resell or whatever. I mean the game sales have been clear enough to prove so. People just aren't that interested in a 600$ console.
I doubt we will see alot of price dropping for the PS3 given how much it costs them anyway. We haven't even really had a PSP price drop yet. :?
Didn't it take Sony at least 3 or 4 years for them to lower the price of the PS2 to near $200? Bad example, I know, considering the PS2 was shit hot around then, but it shows they're stubborn when they're sure about things.
Yes but...
A lot of the cost in the PS3 is based off 3 items. XDR RAM, CELL CPU, and blu-ray drive. XDR ram is still rare and it's made by the people that made RAMBUS so it's not going to price drop, IBM states that cell yields are pretty horrid and they can't supply all markets (and the PS3 is not their priority), and blu-ray is just a debacle.
They really have to get those components under control to price drop.
The other parts, RSX (aka 7800 nvidia or g71) and GDDR3 have already hit rock bottom in price because they are old and newer/better tech has been out for a while or is on the horrizon.
The question is how fast can the expensive parts be made efficiently.
On the other hand, how are they going to make money on the console if nobody is buying it?
I really can't understand how some people still think Sony's going to trample the Wii and 360 this generation. Everything seems stacked against it in my eyes.
I really can't understand how some people still think Sony's going to trample the Wii and 360 this generation. Everything seems stacked against it in my eyes.
Because of their dominance over the last 2 generations, and because they have 5 years here to capture the lead, even if things arent looking so hot right now.
I really can't understand how some people still think Sony's going to trample the Wii and 360 this generation. Everything seems stacked against it in my eyes.
Because of their dominance over the last 2 generations, and because they have 5 years here to capture the lead, even if things arent looking so hot right now.
But I mean, I'm just being reasonable
Because thinking that they might not sell as well this generation is unreasonable?
It's pretty obvious people were just buying them to resell or whatever. I mean the game sales have been clear enough to prove so. People just aren't that interested in a 600$ console.
I doubt we will see alot of price dropping for the PS3 given how much it costs them anyway. We haven't even really had a PSP price drop yet. :?
Didn't it take Sony at least 3 or 4 years for them to lower the price of the PS2 to near $200? Bad example, I know, considering the PS2 was shit hot around then, but it shows they're stubborn when they're sure about things.
Yes but...
A lot of the cost in the PS3 is based off 3 items. XDR RAM, CELL CPU, and blu-ray drive. XDR ram is still rare and it's made by the people that made RAMBUS so it's not going to price drop, IBM states that cell yields are pretty horrid and they can't supply all markets (and the PS3 is not their priority), and blu-ray is just a debacle.
They really have to get those components under control to price drop.
The other parts, RSX (aka 7800 nvidia or g71) and GDDR3 have already hit rock bottom in price because they are old and newer/better tech has been out for a while or is on the horrizon.
The question is how fast can the expensive parts be made efficiently.
On the other hand, how are they going to make money on the console if nobody is buying it?
That implies they make money off of the console.
They're doing that whole "Loss leader" routine again where they sell the hardware at a massive loss. They'd make their money off of game sales. This is what worked for them in the PS2, though the loss wasn't as huge.
This time though, there's a gaping difference between production and RnD costs verses retail price, and considering Namco (I think it was Namco) came out and said it'd take something like 500,000 copies of a game to be sold just to make any money on the PS3, then it's hard to say what they'll be making money on this generation.
I would like to realate my recent story of PS3/Wii sales observances (Hooray anecdotal evidence!). I was in Monroe, LA at Target on the 27th. They had two 60 Gig PS3s in stock, and had just put out a fresh supply of about 9 Wii they had gotten that morning. There was a store associate whose job was to stand there and hand out the Wii until they were out. I asked him about the PS3s during a lull, and he said they had received three the day before, and these two were still left.
I can't wait till I can afford a PS3 and linux gets full driver support. I'd kill to see how the cell works in a multimedia server.
jonxp on
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I really can't understand how some people still think Sony's going to trample the Wii and 360 this generation. Everything seems stacked against it in my eyes.
Because of their dominance over the last 2 generations, and because they have 5 years here to capture the lead, even if things arent looking so hot right now.
It's pretty obvious people were just buying them to resell or whatever. I mean the game sales have been clear enough to prove so. People just aren't that interested in a 600$ console.
I doubt we will see alot of price dropping for the PS3 given how much it costs them anyway. We haven't even really had a PSP price drop yet. :?
Didn't it take Sony at least 3 or 4 years for them to lower the price of the PS2 to near $200? Bad example, I know, considering the PS2 was shit hot around then, but it shows they're stubborn when they're sure about things.
Yes but...
A lot of the cost in the PS3 is based off 3 items. XDR RAM, CELL CPU, and blu-ray drive. XDR ram is still rare and it's made by the people that made RAMBUS so it's not going to price drop, IBM states that cell yields are pretty horrid and they can't supply all markets (and the PS3 is not their priority), and blu-ray is just a debacle.
They really have to get those components under control to price drop.
The other parts, RSX (aka 7800 nvidia or g71) and GDDR3 have already hit rock bottom in price because they are old and newer/better tech has been out for a while or is on the horrizon.
The question is how fast can the expensive parts be made efficiently.
On the other hand, how are they going to make money on the console if nobody is buying it?
That implies they make money off of the console.
They're doing that whole "Loss leader" routine again where they sell the hardware at a massive loss. They'd make their money off of game sales. This is what worked for them in the PS2, though the loss wasn't as huge.
This time though, there's a gaping difference between production and RnD costs verses retail price, and considering Namco (I think it was Namco) came out and said it'd take something like 500,000 copies of a game to be sold just to make any money on the PS3, then it's hard to say what they'll be making money on this generation.
Its par for the course for a console company to take a loss on the systems and make it back on games. Nintendo is the only one this gen who isnt doing it.
I still think sony is still going to take the lead this generation because, despite the price point, despite the competition, i still hear people saying they want one so badly. The only thing is, theyre waiting for a price drop and for some good games to come out. Ive heard a couple people mention they want a wii, but the same people also said they want a PS3. The only person i know whos exclusively interested in the Wii is my dad, but i dont think hes going to follow through with it. I mean, this is all anecdotal, but at this point do we really have anything better to point to than "olol 600 dollars" to say sony is going to fail?
Infact, the only place i really hear the ps3/sony badmouthed is on the internet, which if the past is any indication of, goes exactly the opposite way as the "mainstream".
Only a day or two before Christmas, while I was attempting to finish up last minute shopping, I saw about three or four PS3s at Best Buy (My memory is a bit hazy as to the exact number). However, they merely sat there, and no one appeared particularly interested in obtaining one. And I saw this all alongside one of my brothers, who is, a devout PS3 fan boy (though he does not own the console itself).
We held 40 on Sunday for our ad at my Best Buy. We had a family of 4 outside since 11pm on Saturday. It looked like they were going to cry when we got there in the morning and told them out many we had.
They bought one, we sold two others. That's it, for the entire day. We still have like 30 something left.
It's pretty obvious people were just buying them to resell or whatever. I mean the game sales have been clear enough to prove so. People just aren't that interested in a 600$ console.
I doubt we will see alot of price dropping for the PS3 given how much it costs them anyway. We haven't even really had a PSP price drop yet. :?
Didn't it take Sony at least 3 or 4 years for them to lower the price of the PS2 to near $200? Bad example, I know, considering the PS2 was shit hot around then, but it shows they're stubborn when they're sure about things.
Yes but...
A lot of the cost in the PS3 is based off 3 items. XDR RAM, CELL CPU, and blu-ray drive. XDR ram is still rare and it's made by the people that made RAMBUS so it's not going to price drop, IBM states that cell yields are pretty horrid and they can't supply all markets (and the PS3 is not their priority), and blu-ray is just a debacle.
They really have to get those components under control to price drop.
The other parts, RSX (aka 7800 nvidia or g71) and GDDR3 have already hit rock bottom in price because they are old and newer/better tech has been out for a while or is on the horrizon.
The question is how fast can the expensive parts be made efficiently.
On the other hand, how are they going to make money on the console if nobody is buying it?
That implies they make money off of the console.
They're doing that whole "Loss leader" routine again where they sell the hardware at a massive loss. They'd make their money off of game sales. This is what worked for them in the PS2, though the loss wasn't as huge.
This time though, there's a gaping difference between production and RnD costs verses retail price, and considering Namco (I think it was Namco) came out and said it'd take something like 500,000 copies of a game to be sold just to make any money on the PS3, then it's hard to say what they'll be making money on this generation.
Its par for the course for a console company to take a loss on the systems and make it back on games. Nintendo is the only one this gen who isnt doing it.
I still think sony is still going to take the lead this generation because, despite the price point, despite the competition, i still hear people saying they want one so badly. The only thing is, theyre waiting for a price drop and for some good games to come out. Ive heard a couple people mention they want a wii, but the same people also said they want a PS3. The only person i know whos exclusively interested in the Wii is my dad, but i dont think hes going to follow through with it. I mean, this is all anecdotal, but at this point do we really have anything better to point to than "olol 600 dollars" to say sony is going to fail?
Infact, the only place i really hear the ps3/sony badmouthed is on the internet, which if the past is any indication of, goes exactly the opposite way as the "mainstream".
I can give a personal example of how it's not just the internet that's dooming the PS3.
At my office we have a lot of people that are various types of gamers, it pretty much crosses the gambit from fanatic to casual. Nobody had heard of the Wii prior to this holiday season, but due to the main stream press anybody that wasn't a college intern wanted a Wii and could care less about Sony's console. Most of that group are old enough to remember failing Sony formats and the PS3 has no games they will want in the future (remember that regardless of how popular FF is it's still a franchise that doesn't make a console). Furthermore anybody that games with friends has been sold on the Wii for some time.
Sony's ad campaigns make it worse. Just what the hell are they trying to sell? It's hard to tell. Yet Nintendo has solid, consistent ads that people understand.
Out of the technophiles none of them would touch a PS3 with a 10 foot pole. These are people with 1080p tv's who drop several thousand a year on high end equipment... mainly because they understand the stats behind the PS3 hardware and see through the bullshit. That's the market Sony should have one with their price point but they are getting their ass kicked by their own smoke and mirrors BS.
Apart from the interns (who honestly don't make enough to impulse buy the console) the only mention I've heard of it is from people who's kids want them. Kids from elementary school through college, and for the most case they aren't willing to waste the money on purchasing the console for kids.
Sony's history will only carry them so far. Let's not forget Atari, Nintendo, Sega, all took serious hits because they relied on reputation first, and creating a product for the consumer/developers needs second. It doesn't help that Sony has a public relations nightmare across all their products right now, they are no longer a quality brand, now they are an over priced rip off with massive liabilities and consumer nightmares.
In order for them to hold onto even a majority market share the PS3 is going to have to bottom out in price to sub 500 (making it an impulse buy for mid class people) and have enough solid exclusives to make people purchase it before said exclusives hit. The problem is the longer it takes them to take ovre the market the less likely this is.
It's pretty obvious people were just buying them to resell or whatever. I mean the game sales have been clear enough to prove so. People just aren't that interested in a 600$ console.
I doubt we will see alot of price dropping for the PS3 given how much it costs them anyway. We haven't even really had a PSP price drop yet. :?
Didn't it take Sony at least 3 or 4 years for them to lower the price of the PS2 to near $200? Bad example, I know, considering the PS2 was shit hot around then, but it shows they're stubborn when they're sure about things.
Yes but...
A lot of the cost in the PS3 is based off 3 items. XDR RAM, CELL CPU, and blu-ray drive. XDR ram is still rare and it's made by the people that made RAMBUS so it's not going to price drop, IBM states that cell yields are pretty horrid and they can't supply all markets (and the PS3 is not their priority), and blu-ray is just a debacle.
They really have to get those components under control to price drop.
The other parts, RSX (aka 7800 nvidia or g71) and GDDR3 have already hit rock bottom in price because they are old and newer/better tech has been out for a while or is on the horrizon.
The question is how fast can the expensive parts be made efficiently.
On the other hand, how are they going to make money on the console if nobody is buying it?
That implies they make money off of the console.
They're doing that whole "Loss leader" routine again where they sell the hardware at a massive loss. They'd make their money off of game sales. This is what worked for them in the PS2, though the loss wasn't as huge.
This time though, there's a gaping difference between production and RnD costs verses retail price, and considering Namco (I think it was Namco) came out and said it'd take something like 500,000 copies of a game to be sold just to make any money on the PS3, then it's hard to say what they'll be making money on this generation.
Its par for the course for a console company to take a loss on the systems and make it back on games. Nintendo is the only one this gen who isnt doing it.
I still think sony is still going to take the lead this generation because, despite the price point, despite the competition, i still hear people saying they want one so badly. The only thing is, theyre waiting for a price drop and for some good games to come out. Ive heard a couple people mention they want a wii, but the same people also said they want a PS3. The only person i know whos exclusively interested in the Wii is my dad, but i dont think hes going to follow through with it. I mean, this is all anecdotal, but at this point do we really have anything better to point to than "olol 600 dollars" to say sony is going to fail?
Infact, the only place i really hear the ps3/sony badmouthed is on the internet, which if the past is any indication of, goes exactly the opposite way as the "mainstream".
The whole "Waiting for the price drop" thing is a lot more harmful than it sounds.
Games sell consoles, and without consoles, people don't buy games. So how is it going to look to developers if people aren't buying the console their upcoming game is going to be on?
It's the Rats from a sinking ship comparison.
That's probably jumping the gun at this point. I'm gonna give them some time to see how they manage given the situation. However, if the trend continues, it's likely the developers won't be too pleased..
It's pretty obvious people were just buying them to resell or whatever. I mean the game sales have been clear enough to prove so. People just aren't that interested in a 600$ console.
I doubt we will see alot of price dropping for the PS3 given how much it costs them anyway. We haven't even really had a PSP price drop yet. :?
Didn't it take Sony at least 3 or 4 years for them to lower the price of the PS2 to near $200? Bad example, I know, considering the PS2 was shit hot around then, but it shows they're stubborn when they're sure about things.
Yes but...
A lot of the cost in the PS3 is based off 3 items. XDR RAM, CELL CPU, and blu-ray drive. XDR ram is still rare and it's made by the people that made RAMBUS so it's not going to price drop, IBM states that cell yields are pretty horrid and they can't supply all markets (and the PS3 is not their priority), and blu-ray is just a debacle.
They really have to get those components under control to price drop.
The other parts, RSX (aka 7800 nvidia or g71) and GDDR3 have already hit rock bottom in price because they are old and newer/better tech has been out for a while or is on the horrizon.
The question is how fast can the expensive parts be made efficiently.
On the other hand, how are they going to make money on the console if nobody is buying it?
That implies they make money off of the console.
They're doing that whole "Loss leader" routine again where they sell the hardware at a massive loss. They'd make their money off of game sales. This is what worked for them in the PS2, though the loss wasn't as huge.
This time though, there's a gaping difference between production and RnD costs verses retail price, and considering Namco (I think it was Namco) came out and said it'd take something like 500,000 copies of a game to be sold just to make any money on the PS3, then it's hard to say what they'll be making money on this generation.
Its par for the course for a console company to take a loss on the systems and make it back on games. Nintendo is the only one this gen who isnt doing it.
I still think sony is still going to take the lead this generation because, despite the price point, despite the competition, i still hear people saying they want one so badly. The only thing is, theyre waiting for a price drop and for some good games to come out. Ive heard a couple people mention they want a wii, but the same people also said they want a PS3. The only person i know whos exclusively interested in the Wii is my dad, but i dont think hes going to follow through with it. I mean, this is all anecdotal, but at this point do we really have anything better to point to than "olol 600 dollars" to say sony is going to fail?
Infact, the only place i really hear the ps3/sony badmouthed is on the internet, which if the past is any indication of, goes exactly the opposite way as the "mainstream".
And while all those people are waiting for the PS3 to drop in price, how many 360's and Wii's are going to be sold, making those platforms far more profitable to develop for than the PS3? It's a catch-22. People want the PS3 because of all the exclusive games the PS2 had. But the PS2 had so many exclusives because it had the largest installed user base. If the PS3 doesn't have the user base, the developers are going to move to other platforms, making the PS3 less appealing to the mass market. That's why they need to drop the price by at least $100 this year and get that user base, otherwise the 360 and the Wii will be too far ahead to catch up with.
There comes a point where I have to cry foul when a pathetic fanboy tries to make up lies:
"Most of that group are old enough to remember failing Sony formats and the PS3 has no games they will want in the future (remember that regardless of how popular FF is it's still a franchise that doesn't make a console). Furthermore anybody that games with friends has been sold on the Wii for some time. "
Really, people the millions of people who still game with friends on Halo 2 and Socom want a Wii? Thats news to me. And youmake it soudn liek Sony has no successful formats which include ... *Drumroll* ... dvd and the cd.
"These are people with 1080p tv's who drop several thousand a year on high end equipment... mainly because they understand the stats behind the PS3 hardware and see through the bullshit. "
One of the main way PS3's are selling right now is because of its Blu-Ray player. Anyone with several thousands of dollars invested in their home-theater equipment wants High Definition Content and the PS3 is one of the cheapest ways to be able to play it right now. And anyone that understands the PS3's stats understands what a great deal it is for its features (if you want all of its features that is). Thats why Sony is losing 250 per console; because it has so many features.
Please save the board some time and don't post ignorant, foul-mouthed drivel again Crash5s. It only lowers the bar for politeness and informs noone.
Dukhat, clearly you see things clearly. Sony is winning this console war because it has an excellent Blu-ray player! That they're losing money (the only ones currently doing so) is a sign of how awesome things will be.
Edit: Also, Sony lost the DVD wars (by conceding early enough to avoid the war) and had no competition in the CD market.
Well it's nice of you to insult his use of antidoted evidence, but what he was talking about completely went over your head. You should learn to read the entire thing rather than using selective reading.
As a side note, most people willing to blow a lot on a good tv that supports 1080p are most likely going to buy an actual Blu-Ray player as they're either "Price equates quality" people or people who know their tech stuff and realize that "all-in-one" hardware, regardless of what it is, is shit.
As a side note, most people willing to blow a lot on a good tv that supports 1080p are most likely going to buy an actual Blu-Ray player as they're either "Price equates quality" people or people who know their tech stuff and realize that "all-in-one" hardware, regardless of what it is, is shit.
Except the PS3, which is pretty much the best Blu-ray player on the market right now.
And youmake it soudn liek Sony has no successful formats which include ... *Drumroll* ... dvd and the cd.
DVD and CD were not Sony formats. Sony lost to DVD (ie folded early).
Sony formats, beta, mini disk, umd, mem stick... all failed.
Clearly you need to do some research and not make up facts out of your rectum.
One of the main way PS3's are selling right now is because of its Blu-Ray player. Anyone with several thousands of dollars invested in their home-theater equipment wants High Definition Content and the PS3 is one of the cheapest ways to be able to play it right now. And anyone that understands the PS3's stats understands what a great deal it is for its features (if you want all of its features that is). Thats why Sony is losing 250 per console; because it has so many features.
This is beyond stupid. I'm a technophile I own a 1080p TV... and I would NEVER use anything but a dedicated player for video or audio. And anybody in the ultra high end will do the same.
Well it's nice of you to insult his use of antidoted evidence, but what he was talking about completely went over your head. You should learn to read the entire thing rather than using selective reading.
As a side note, most people willing to blow a lot on a good tv that supports 1080p are most likely going to buy an actual Blu-Ray player as they're either "Price equates quality" people or people who know their tech stuff and realize that "all-in-one" hardware, regardless of what it is, is shit.
crash5s on
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
There comes a point where I have to cry foul when a pathetic fanboy tries to make up lies:
"Most of that group are old enough to remember failing Sony formats and the PS3 has no games they will want in the future (remember that regardless of how popular FF is it's still a franchise that doesn't make a console). Furthermore anybody that games with friends has been sold on the Wii for some time. "
Really, people the millions of people who still game with friends on Halo 2 and Socom want a Wii? Thats news to me. And youmake it soudn liek Sony has no successful formats which include ... *Drumroll* ... dvd and the cd.
"These are people with 1080p tv's who drop several thousand a year on high end equipment... mainly because they understand the stats behind the PS3 hardware and see through the bullshit. "
One of the main way PS3's are selling right now is because of its Blu-Ray player. Anyone with several thousands of dollars invested in their home-theater equipment wants High Definition Content and the PS3 is one of the cheapest ways to be able to play it right now. And anyone that understands the PS3's stats understands what a great deal it is for its features (if you want all of its features that is). Thats why Sony is losing 250 per console; because it has so many features.
Please save the board some time and don't post ignorant, foul-mouthed drivel again Crash5s. It only lowers the bar for politeness and informs noone.
Sony did not invent the DVD. In fact, they backed an opposing format known as MultiMedia Compact Disc. Eventually that crashed and burned and they jumped on board with the competing Super Density Disc format that eventually became the DVD we know today.
The only thing Sony contributed to the Audio CD was the error correction method CIRC.
So... one can not really call DVD and CD Sony created formats.
However Sony does have a laundry list of failed formats including but not limited to Betamax, MiniDisc, UMD (for movies), MicroMV, ATRAC, SDDS, SACD, and in the very near future Blu-Ray. Oh yeah, I went there.
As a side note, most people willing to blow a lot on a good tv that supports 1080p are most likely going to buy an actual Blu-Ray player as they're either "Price equates quality" people or people who know their tech stuff and realize that "all-in-one" hardware, regardless of what it is, is shit.
Except the PS3, which is pretty much the best Blu-ray player on the market right now.
I wouldn't know seeing as I don't know if anyone's actually done a comparison between the PS3's playback and a retail Blu-Ray player, but most tech junkies avoid any "all-in-one" hardware as much as possible due to both quality of manufacturing and the fact that if one piece of it breaks, your entire machine is fucked.
As a side note, most people willing to blow a lot on a good tv that supports 1080p are most likely going to buy an actual Blu-Ray player as they're either "Price equates quality" people or people who know their tech stuff and realize that "all-in-one" hardware, regardless of what it is, is shit.
Except the PS3, which is pretty much the best Blu-ray player on the market right now.
I wouldn't know seeing as I don't know if anyone's actually done a comparison between the PS3's playback and a retail Blu-Ray player, but most tech junkies avoid any "all-in-one" hardware as much as possible due to both quality of manufacturing and the fact that if one piece of it breaks, your entire machine is fucked.
I'm normally one of these people. I rather get a standalone player for any media format. However, from all of the comparison reviews I've read, pretty much all of them went in favor of the PS3.
As a side note, most people willing to blow a lot on a good tv that supports 1080p are most likely going to buy an actual Blu-Ray player as they're either "Price equates quality" people or people who know their tech stuff and realize that "all-in-one" hardware, regardless of what it is, is shit.
Except the PS3, which is pretty much the best Blu-ray player on the market right now.
I wouldn't know seeing as I don't know if anyone's actually done a comparison between the PS3's playback and a retail Blu-Ray player, but most tech junkies avoid any "all-in-one" hardware as much as possible due to both quality of manufacturing and the fact that if one piece of it breaks, your entire machine is fucked.
I suspect that right now the real technophiles who have even a mild concern with money are playing the waiting game. While the PS3 can be a bad-ass Blu-ray player it's not going to matter if Blue-ray is the loser in the format wars.
still, even if Sony reduced the price by 100 bucks relatively soon. That's still 100 bucks more than the 360 and it really wasn't that long ago people were going "400 for the 360??? shit!"
I think the only way Sony is going to get out of this is if they come forward and admit that they fucked up and do something drastic.....like match the 400 dollar price tag of the 360. Yeah, its definitely going to be a mess financially, they're going to take an even bigger loss per unit. But suddenly, the PS3 becomes a HELL of a lot more attractive. And that would at least be something to salvage for the future.
As a side note, most people willing to blow a lot on a good tv that supports 1080p are most likely going to buy an actual Blu-Ray player as they're either "Price equates quality" people or people who know their tech stuff and realize that "all-in-one" hardware, regardless of what it is, is shit.
Except the PS3, which is pretty much the best Blu-ray player on the market right now.
I wouldn't know seeing as I don't know if anyone's actually done a comparison between the PS3's playback and a retail Blu-Ray player, but most tech junkies avoid any "all-in-one" hardware as much as possible due to both quality of manufacturing and the fact that if one piece of it breaks, your entire machine is fucked.
I suspect that right now the real technophiles who have even a mild concern with money are playing the waiting game. While the PS3 can be a bad-ass Blu-ray player it's not going to matter if Blue-ray is the loser in the format wars.
The vast majority of technophiles are in the HD-DVD camp now for various reasons.
But it's almost a given that both HD-DVD and blu-ray are going to tank and we will see dual format players in the next couple years, and then both disk formats will flop with holo (and other items) right on the horizon and in action on the ultra high end of data storage and the fact that 1k resolution is killed with 2k already out.
This format war has been extremely destructive.
I think the only way Sony is going to get out of this is if they come forward and admit that they fucked up and do something drastic.....like match the 400 dollar price tag of the 360. Yeah, its definitely going to be a mess financially, they're going to take an even bigger loss per unit. But suddenly, the PS3 becomes a HELL of a lot more attractive. And that would at least be something to salvage for the future.
It's the saturn all over again. Kicks ass on paper, to costly to make, to costly to dev for, and suicidal.
The funny part is Sony became a player because Sega fucked up, and now sony is doing the exact same fucking thing but slapping another betamax on it to add "value".
Please save the board some time and don't post ignorant, foul-mouthed drivel again Crash5s. It only lowers the bar for politeness and informs noone.
Save yourself some time and consider that the forum already has a way of working that may not live up directly to your standards. Crash had a point and he presented it fine. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean shit. While you're at it, I'd like to see actual figures on the "facts" you mentioned, because it seems to me like you're the only one here spewing ignorant baseless drivel. Sony's formats hardly include the CD or the DVD. Just because they caved at the last second and did some work on them does not outweigh the laundry list of failed formats Sony has supported in the past. And people playing SOCOM and Halo 2 do want Wii's. How do I know this? Because I'm fucking one of them.
still, even if Sony reduced the price by 100 bucks relatively soon. That's still 100 bucks more than the 360 and it really wasn't that long ago people were going "400 for the 360??? shit!"
I think the only way Sony is going to get out of this is if they come forward and admit that they fucked up and do something drastic.....like match the 400 dollar price tag of the 360. Yeah, its definitely going to be a mess financially, they're going to take an even bigger loss per unit. But suddenly, the PS3 becomes a HELL of a lot more attractive. And that would at least be something to salvage for the future.
The only problem with that is, if they lose another 100 dollars per console, theyre going to have to make that up in software sales which right now id wager is actually impossible, since there arent enough titles.
Also you have to consider the fact that the average PS2 owner bought 7 titles (I believe, i just read this somewhere yesterday), and i imagine thats what theyre basing their price point on right now to make money. If the average PS3 owner buys 7 titles eventually, theyll come out ahead based on how much theyre losing per console. Now when the profit margins per game sold increase, and the cost per unit manufactured decrease, i think we'll see a price drop. Which im going to guess is either going to be this summer or sometime around next christmas. I would love to see it in time for the euro launch (If not only becuase the euro launch price is more fucking insane than the NA launch price), but i just dont see it happening. The suppliers of the electronics dont give a shit if sony makes money or not, and as long as theyre selling out their supply, theyre happy with their price point.
still, even if Sony reduced the price by 100 bucks relatively soon. That's still 100 bucks more than the 360 and it really wasn't that long ago people were going "400 for the 360??? shit!"
I think the only way Sony is going to get out of this is if they come forward and admit that they fucked up and do something drastic.....like match the 400 dollar price tag of the 360. Yeah, its definitely going to be a mess financially, they're going to take an even bigger loss per unit. But suddenly, the PS3 becomes a HELL of a lot more attractive. And that would at least be something to salvage for the future.
I think you mean it becomes less unattractive. Lets face it, there is no reason to buy one unless its for blu-ray...and if thats why you buy one, you should probably have your head examined.
still, even if Sony reduced the price by 100 bucks relatively soon. That's still 100 bucks more than the 360 and it really wasn't that long ago people were going "400 for the 360??? shit!"
I think the only way Sony is going to get out of this is if they come forward and admit that they fucked up and do something drastic.....like match the 400 dollar price tag of the 360. Yeah, its definitely going to be a mess financially, they're going to take an even bigger loss per unit. But suddenly, the PS3 becomes a HELL of a lot more attractive. And that would at least be something to salvage for the future.
I think you mean it becomes less unattractive. Lets face it, there is no reason to buy one unless its for blu-ray...and if thats why you buy one, you should probably have your head examined.
there's a lot of people who need their head examined. My friend thinks UMD movies were awesome.
The only thing I've learned from this thread is that Dukhat is a fucking moron that takes general anecdotes about Sony as personal insults.
edit: Sony doomed? Course not. But coming out with a $599 game console isn't helping them. I don't care what good it does for big-spending, high-definition-watching, home-theatre-owning technophiles as an 'inexpensive' BluRay device.
still, even if Sony reduced the price by 100 bucks relatively soon. That's still 100 bucks more than the 360 and it really wasn't that long ago people were going "400 for the 360??? shit!"
I think the only way Sony is going to get out of this is if they come forward and admit that they fucked up and do something drastic.....like match the 400 dollar price tag of the 360. Yeah, its definitely going to be a mess financially, they're going to take an even bigger loss per unit. But suddenly, the PS3 becomes a HELL of a lot more attractive. And that would at least be something to salvage for the future.
The only problem with that is, if they lose another 100 dollars per console, theyre going to have to make that up in software sales which right now id wager is actually impossible, since there arent enough titles.
Also you have to consider the fact that the average PS2 owner bought 7 titles (I believe, i just read this somewhere yesterday), and i imagine thats what theyre basing their price point on right now to make money. If the average PS3 owner buys 7 titles eventually, theyll come out ahead based on how much theyre losing per console. Now when the profit margins per game sold increase, and the cost per unit manufactured decrease, i think we'll see a price drop. Which im going to guess is either going to be this summer or sometime around next christmas. I would love to see it in time for the euro launch (If not only becuase the euro launch price is more fucking insane than the NA launch price), but i just dont see it happening. The suppliers of the electronics dont give a shit if sony makes money or not, and as long as theyre selling out their supply, theyre happy with their price point.
I agree. Sony would still not be out of the woods. I just figure, that at this point. they're doubly fucked. People arent interested in buying a 600 dollar console AND Sony's name has a lot of negative PR attached to it right now. If they perform this mea culpa and at least make the effort to show that they aren't the arrogant pricks everyone makes them to be. Sure they've still got a lot of work cut out for them, they'd still be hemorrhaging money. But at least people would be interested in the PS3 again and keep the name alive.
You're exactly right though when you point out that its still all about the games and right now, that's not looking that hot. So they'd have to work their asses off to get more must have titles. But ultimately I just think Sony needs to admit that they fucked up..fix it so that the PS3 is still an attractive buy so that at least they can lower the barrier to entry so that people buy games...then lick their wounds so that they can not fuck up the inevitable PS4...and muzzle Kuturagi for good..or take him to shock therapy and give him a jolt whenever he says something stupid.
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Didn't it take Sony at least 3 or 4 years for them to lower the price of the PS2 to near $200? Bad example, I know, considering the PS2 was shit hot around then, but it shows they're stubborn when they're sure about things.
Seems to me most Wii sales around here go directly to eBay.
Couldn't you just, kick his fucking ass for buying six wiis to sell them?
Yes but...
A lot of the cost in the PS3 is based off 3 items. XDR RAM, CELL CPU, and blu-ray drive. XDR ram is still rare and it's made by the people that made RAMBUS so it's not going to price drop, IBM states that cell yields are pretty horrid and they can't supply all markets (and the PS3 is not their priority), and blu-ray is just a debacle.
They really have to get those components under control to price drop.
The other parts, RSX (aka 7800 nvidia or g71) and GDDR3 have already hit rock bottom in price because they are old and newer/better tech has been out for a while or is on the horrizon.
The question is how fast can the expensive parts be made efficiently.
I really can't understand how some people still think Sony's going to trample the Wii and 360 this generation. Everything seems stacked against it in my eyes.
Because of their dominance over the last 2 generations, and because they have 5 years here to capture the lead, even if things arent looking so hot right now.
But I mean, I'm just being reasonable
Because thinking that they might not sell as well this generation is unreasonable?
That implies they make money off of the console.
They're doing that whole "Loss leader" routine again where they sell the hardware at a massive loss. They'd make their money off of game sales. This is what worked for them in the PS2, though the loss wasn't as huge.
This time though, there's a gaping difference between production and RnD costs verses retail price, and considering Namco (I think it was Namco) came out and said it'd take something like 500,000 copies of a game to be sold just to make any money on the PS3, then it's hard to say what they'll be making money on this generation.
It's okay Deus, he just doesn't understand what it means to answer the question at hand.
I can't wait till I can afford a PS3 and linux gets full driver support. I'd kill to see how the cell works in a multimedia server.
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Sony got too cocky.
Its par for the course for a console company to take a loss on the systems and make it back on games. Nintendo is the only one this gen who isnt doing it.
I still think sony is still going to take the lead this generation because, despite the price point, despite the competition, i still hear people saying they want one so badly. The only thing is, theyre waiting for a price drop and for some good games to come out. Ive heard a couple people mention they want a wii, but the same people also said they want a PS3. The only person i know whos exclusively interested in the Wii is my dad, but i dont think hes going to follow through with it. I mean, this is all anecdotal, but at this point do we really have anything better to point to than "olol 600 dollars" to say sony is going to fail?
Infact, the only place i really hear the ps3/sony badmouthed is on the internet, which if the past is any indication of, goes exactly the opposite way as the "mainstream".
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They bought one, we sold two others. That's it, for the entire day. We still have like 30 something left.
I can give a personal example of how it's not just the internet that's dooming the PS3.
At my office we have a lot of people that are various types of gamers, it pretty much crosses the gambit from fanatic to casual. Nobody had heard of the Wii prior to this holiday season, but due to the main stream press anybody that wasn't a college intern wanted a Wii and could care less about Sony's console. Most of that group are old enough to remember failing Sony formats and the PS3 has no games they will want in the future (remember that regardless of how popular FF is it's still a franchise that doesn't make a console). Furthermore anybody that games with friends has been sold on the Wii for some time.
Sony's ad campaigns make it worse. Just what the hell are they trying to sell? It's hard to tell. Yet Nintendo has solid, consistent ads that people understand.
Out of the technophiles none of them would touch a PS3 with a 10 foot pole. These are people with 1080p tv's who drop several thousand a year on high end equipment... mainly because they understand the stats behind the PS3 hardware and see through the bullshit. That's the market Sony should have one with their price point but they are getting their ass kicked by their own smoke and mirrors BS.
Apart from the interns (who honestly don't make enough to impulse buy the console) the only mention I've heard of it is from people who's kids want them. Kids from elementary school through college, and for the most case they aren't willing to waste the money on purchasing the console for kids.
Sony's history will only carry them so far. Let's not forget Atari, Nintendo, Sega, all took serious hits because they relied on reputation first, and creating a product for the consumer/developers needs second. It doesn't help that Sony has a public relations nightmare across all their products right now, they are no longer a quality brand, now they are an over priced rip off with massive liabilities and consumer nightmares.
In order for them to hold onto even a majority market share the PS3 is going to have to bottom out in price to sub 500 (making it an impulse buy for mid class people) and have enough solid exclusives to make people purchase it before said exclusives hit. The problem is the longer it takes them to take ovre the market the less likely this is.
The whole "Waiting for the price drop" thing is a lot more harmful than it sounds.
Games sell consoles, and without consoles, people don't buy games. So how is it going to look to developers if people aren't buying the console their upcoming game is going to be on?
It's the Rats from a sinking ship comparison.
That's probably jumping the gun at this point. I'm gonna give them some time to see how they manage given the situation. However, if the trend continues, it's likely the developers won't be too pleased..
"Most of that group are old enough to remember failing Sony formats and the PS3 has no games they will want in the future (remember that regardless of how popular FF is it's still a franchise that doesn't make a console). Furthermore anybody that games with friends has been sold on the Wii for some time. "
Really, people the millions of people who still game with friends on Halo 2 and Socom want a Wii? Thats news to me. And youmake it soudn liek Sony has no successful formats which include ... *Drumroll* ... dvd and the cd.
"These are people with 1080p tv's who drop several thousand a year on high end equipment... mainly because they understand the stats behind the PS3 hardware and see through the bullshit. "
One of the main way PS3's are selling right now is because of its Blu-Ray player. Anyone with several thousands of dollars invested in their home-theater equipment wants High Definition Content and the PS3 is one of the cheapest ways to be able to play it right now. And anyone that understands the PS3's stats understands what a great deal it is for its features (if you want all of its features that is). Thats why Sony is losing 250 per console; because it has so many features.
Please save the board some time and don't post ignorant, foul-mouthed drivel again Crash5s. It only lowers the bar for politeness and informs noone.
Edit: Also, Sony lost the DVD wars (by conceding early enough to avoid the war) and had no competition in the CD market.
Well it's nice of you to insult his use of antidoted evidence, but what he was talking about completely went over your head. You should learn to read the entire thing rather than using selective reading.
As a side note, most people willing to blow a lot on a good tv that supports 1080p are most likely going to buy an actual Blu-Ray player as they're either "Price equates quality" people or people who know their tech stuff and realize that "all-in-one" hardware, regardless of what it is, is shit.
Except the PS3, which is pretty much the best Blu-ray player on the market right now.
DVD and CD were not Sony formats. Sony lost to DVD (ie folded early).
Sony formats, beta, mini disk, umd, mem stick... all failed.
Clearly you need to do some research and not make up facts out of your rectum.
This is beyond stupid. I'm a technophile I own a 1080p TV... and I would NEVER use anything but a dedicated player for video or audio. And anybody in the ultra high end will do the same.
Here is a person who got my comment
Sony did not invent the DVD. In fact, they backed an opposing format known as MultiMedia Compact Disc. Eventually that crashed and burned and they jumped on board with the competing Super Density Disc format that eventually became the DVD we know today.
The only thing Sony contributed to the Audio CD was the error correction method CIRC.
So... one can not really call DVD and CD Sony created formats.
However Sony does have a laundry list of failed formats including but not limited to Betamax, MiniDisc, UMD (for movies), MicroMV, ATRAC, SDDS, SACD, and in the very near future Blu-Ray. Oh yeah, I went there.
I wouldn't know seeing as I don't know if anyone's actually done a comparison between the PS3's playback and a retail Blu-Ray player, but most tech junkies avoid any "all-in-one" hardware as much as possible due to both quality of manufacturing and the fact that if one piece of it breaks, your entire machine is fucked.
I'm normally one of these people. I rather get a standalone player for any media format. However, from all of the comparison reviews I've read, pretty much all of them went in favor of the PS3.
I suspect that right now the real technophiles who have even a mild concern with money are playing the waiting game. While the PS3 can be a bad-ass Blu-ray player it's not going to matter if Blue-ray is the loser in the format wars.
I think the only way Sony is going to get out of this is if they come forward and admit that they fucked up and do something drastic.....like match the 400 dollar price tag of the 360. Yeah, its definitely going to be a mess financially, they're going to take an even bigger loss per unit. But suddenly, the PS3 becomes a HELL of a lot more attractive. And that would at least be something to salvage for the future.
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I believe 5 including the PS3.
The vast majority of technophiles are in the HD-DVD camp now for various reasons.
But it's almost a given that both HD-DVD and blu-ray are going to tank and we will see dual format players in the next couple years, and then both disk formats will flop with holo (and other items) right on the horizon and in action on the ultra high end of data storage and the fact that 1k resolution is killed with 2k already out.
This format war has been extremely destructive.
It's the saturn all over again. Kicks ass on paper, to costly to make, to costly to dev for, and suicidal.
The funny part is Sony became a player because Sega fucked up, and now sony is doing the exact same fucking thing but slapping another betamax on it to add "value".
Talk about not learning from others mistakes.
Save yourself some time and consider that the forum already has a way of working that may not live up directly to your standards. Crash had a point and he presented it fine. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean shit. While you're at it, I'd like to see actual figures on the "facts" you mentioned, because it seems to me like you're the only one here spewing ignorant baseless drivel. Sony's formats hardly include the CD or the DVD. Just because they caved at the last second and did some work on them does not outweigh the laundry list of failed formats Sony has supported in the past. And people playing SOCOM and Halo 2 do want Wii's. How do I know this? Because I'm fucking one of them.
The only problem with that is, if they lose another 100 dollars per console, theyre going to have to make that up in software sales which right now id wager is actually impossible, since there arent enough titles.
Also you have to consider the fact that the average PS2 owner bought 7 titles (I believe, i just read this somewhere yesterday), and i imagine thats what theyre basing their price point on right now to make money. If the average PS3 owner buys 7 titles eventually, theyll come out ahead based on how much theyre losing per console. Now when the profit margins per game sold increase, and the cost per unit manufactured decrease, i think we'll see a price drop. Which im going to guess is either going to be this summer or sometime around next christmas. I would love to see it in time for the euro launch (If not only becuase the euro launch price is more fucking insane than the NA launch price), but i just dont see it happening. The suppliers of the electronics dont give a shit if sony makes money or not, and as long as theyre selling out their supply, theyre happy with their price point.
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I think you mean it becomes less unattractive. Lets face it, there is no reason to buy one unless its for blu-ray...and if thats why you buy one, you should probably have your head examined.
there's a lot of people who need their head examined. My friend thinks UMD movies were awesome.
edit: Sony doomed? Course not. But coming out with a $599 game console isn't helping them. I don't care what good it does for big-spending, high-definition-watching, home-theatre-owning technophiles as an 'inexpensive' BluRay device.
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I agree. Sony would still not be out of the woods. I just figure, that at this point. they're doubly fucked. People arent interested in buying a 600 dollar console AND Sony's name has a lot of negative PR attached to it right now. If they perform this mea culpa and at least make the effort to show that they aren't the arrogant pricks everyone makes them to be. Sure they've still got a lot of work cut out for them, they'd still be hemorrhaging money. But at least people would be interested in the PS3 again and keep the name alive.
You're exactly right though when you point out that its still all about the games and right now, that's not looking that hot. So they'd have to work their asses off to get more must have titles. But ultimately I just think Sony needs to admit that they fucked up..fix it so that the PS3 is still an attractive buy so that at least they can lower the barrier to entry so that people buy games...then lick their wounds so that they can not fuck up the inevitable PS4...and muzzle Kuturagi for good..or take him to shock therapy and give him a jolt whenever he says something stupid.
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Clearly he is retarded.
He also pirates games.
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