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DRM

245678

Posts

  • GrathGrath Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    hotsauce wrote: »
    devoir wrote: »
    I don't know, you sound awfully smug and happy about it.
    Perhaps that's because tone of voice doesn't carry well in this medium. I was really looking forward to playing this game.
    Have you even looked at what the anti-piracy measures are and how unobtrusive they are?
    Yes, but I don't actually care. I don't support DRM. Period.

    you probably don't actually buy anything, your parents probably give you the money.

    Really some people need to grow up.

    3ds Code 0619-3710-2995
  • BassguyBassguy Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'm not the kind of person who would boycott a game because of a DRM scheme as tame as this one, but I do think it's stupid that it's there at all.
    That is exactly how I feel.

    The argument for DRM is that it "Keeps people honest." Too bad that it doesn't accomplish that at all. All it does is hinder the honest people that gave you money in the first place. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about pirating. If someone wants to steal your content, they will. No matter how draconian your DRM, it will eventually get cracked.

    On the other hand, I live in a world filled with DRM. I'm incredibly weak-willed, so I have yet to get up on my high horse, and boycott DRMed products. I buy music, I buy software, and I buy DVDs. Most of those have DRM, and it drives me bonkers. I have bought and paid for everything on my computer, and I don't like being treated like a common thief.

    TLDR: I don't like DRM as a concept, but I live with it because I crave content.

  • Captain ElevenCaptain Eleven The last card is a kronk Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    You guys bitching about the DRM are really, really funny. This is a pretty non-restrictive method of DRM, and they're addressing a couple of issue that have come up. Expecting anyone to release a game with no form of DRM is just a tad unreasonable. Get over it.

    steam_sig.png
  • ASimPersonASimPerson And they will tremble again at the sound of our silence!Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    You guys bitching about the DRM are really, really funny. This is a pretty non-restrictive method of DRM, and they're addressing a couple of issue that have come up. Expecting anyone to release a game with no form of DRM is just a tad unreasonable. Get over it.

    http://www.stardock.com/ ?

    redoctober2.png
    SE++ Forum Battle Archive | PST = Pacific Standard Time | DRUNKSTUCK: A Homestuck recap
  • Captain ElevenCaptain Eleven The last card is a kronk Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    ASimPerson wrote: »
    You guys bitching about the DRM are really, really funny. This is a pretty non-restrictive method of DRM, and they're addressing a couple of issue that have come up. Expecting anyone to release a game with no form of DRM is just a tad unreasonable. Get over it.

    http://www.stardock.com/ ?

    Have fun playing games made only by Stardock then.

    Edit: My point is that some people make a business decision to not have DRM, and some do. For those who don't use DRM, good on them. For those who choose to use reasonble DRM, they are trying to protect their work, which is totally within their right. And it's not like Hothead is using Starforce or anything.

    Aw crap, I disagree with the guy with a Sean Connery avatar.

    I lose.

    steam_sig.png
  • glycerineglycerine Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Re: One-time (per install) activation not being the same as in-store security tags - it's worth noting that stores can be more leniant in this regard because they have a far stronger ally in their fight against copying; the laws of physics (or at least, what it's easy for us to do with them at the moment). When you take this into account, the implementations become far more similar.

    For what it's worth, i'm against overkill-DRM enough that i do semi-regularly decide not to buy games/other software because of it (the rest of the time the software that implements that kind of stuff doesn't interest me enough to want to buy it in the first place). I thought the DRM in this case was perfectly reasonable; people have a right to protect their revenue (whether that's lost through theft, copying, or any other manner) - doing it in an open and honest manner should be encouraged, not shouted down.

    That's not to say systems can't be improved further of course, which seems to be happening - again, good...not bad :)

  • TankHammerTankHammer Extreme Ghostbuster Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    n191037997042639335624we9.jpg

    I caught this online today and I think it's the comic that was referred to in the opening posts.

    4icmw.jpg TankHammer | 2zivq6q.jpg
  • yuttyutt Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Eh. This is kind of silly.

    Go to any Pirate (arr!) site and search for the game.

    Fuck load of good your DRM did, eh?

    End of discussion.

  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    yutt wrote: »
    Eh. This is kind of silly.

    Go to any Pirate (arr!) site and search for the game.

    Fuck load of good your DRM did, eh?

    End of discussion.

    That's like saying, 'Muder is illegal, but people still get killed all the time, so why bother trying to stop them?'

    The list never changes: http://www.infinitebacklog.com
    Chamberlain.jpg
  • yuttyutt Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    That's like saying, 'Muder is illegal, but people still get killed all the time, so why bother trying to stop them?'
    No. It is like saying murder is illegal, and wearing giant penis shaped hats isn't preventing murder, so maybe we should consider other methods and take these stupid fucking hats off.

  • NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    yutt wrote: »
    Eh. This is kind of silly.

    Go to any Pirate (arr!) site and search for the game.

    Fuck load of good your DRM did, eh?

    End of discussion.

    That's like saying, 'Muder is illegal, but people still get killed all the time, so why bother trying to stop them?'

    You can't argue with people trying to justify actions they know to be illegal. They aren't being rational, so you won't ever get anywhere.

  • ZhirzzhZhirzzh Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    yutt wrote: »
    That's like saying, 'Muder is illegal, but people still get killed all the time, so why bother trying to stop them?'
    No. It is like saying murder is illegal, and wearing giant penis shaped hats isn't preventing murder, so maybe we should consider other methods and take these stupid fucking hats off.

    It's more like saying murder is illegal, and wearing this stupid looking 800$ sign that says "don't murder me" not only isn't helping; it's so annoying that people murder you just to spite the sign.

    steam_sig.png
  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    yutt wrote: »
    That's like saying, 'Muder is illegal, but people still get killed all the time, so why bother trying to stop them?'
    No. It is like saying murder is illegal, and wearing giant penis shaped hats isn't preventing murder, so maybe we should consider other methods and take these stupid fucking hats off.

    No. DRM prevents casual theft, at best, but it is still preventing some of the theft, so there is little reason to abandon it. Especially when it is as non-intrusive as the DRM Hothead has used.

    And if wearing a penis hat guarunteed that I would never be murdered I would wear two.

    The list never changes: http://www.infinitebacklog.com
    Chamberlain.jpg
  • NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    yutt wrote: »
    That's like saying, 'Muder is illegal, but people still get killed all the time, so why bother trying to stop them?'
    No. It is like saying murder is illegal, and wearing giant penis shaped hats isn't preventing murder, so maybe we should consider other methods and take these stupid fucking hats off.

    No. DRM prevents casual theft, at best, but it is still preventing some of the theft, so there is little reason to abandon it. Especially when it is as non-intrusive as the DRM Hothead has used.

    And if wearing penis hat guarunteed that I would never be murdered I would wear two.

    Unfortunately, it turns out that wearing two hats gets you murdered twice as hard.

  • ZhirzzhZhirzzh Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    yutt wrote: »
    That's like saying, 'Muder is illegal, but people still get killed all the time, so why bother trying to stop them?'
    No. It is like saying murder is illegal, and wearing giant penis shaped hats isn't preventing murder, so maybe we should consider other methods and take these stupid fucking hats off.

    No. DRM prevents casual theft, at best, but it is still preventing some of the theft, so there is little reason to abandon it. Especially when it is as non-intrusive as the DRM Hothead has used.

    And if wearing penis hat guarunteed that I would never be murdered I would wear two.


    It prevents theft from people who have never heard of Google. That's almost 3 people with internet access.

    steam_sig.png
  • GersenGersen Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Willeth wrote: »
    EDIT: On re-reading your post it seems like that actually wasn't what you were driving at. More that if you have these restrictive systems in place, and then something happens with the company, you're suddenly locked out of something you have purchased through no fault of your own. Correct?

    Exactly, I don't accuse HH or being part of an evil conspiracy bound to steal gamers money and I pretty sure that Vlad realy means what he say, but even if that's true today, we, and even him, have no idea if it's still going to be true tomorrow. Maybe in six/seven/twenty months Vlad no longer work for HH or the guys in charge at that time might be a lot less permissive that they are today. The gaming industry history is full of talented creators who today have no longer any control on their creation.

    And even if HH and Vlad are still here in 10 years there is still a lot of things out of their control that can happens, for example some guy who come and say "Hey! this music/picture/whatever you use in your game belongs to me! I will sue the hell out of you!" as a result HH might be forced for some time, or even forever, to stop selling and of course turn off the activation server, same goes if some country decide that the game is too violent, amoral, cruel against oranges, etc... and forbid HH from selling/activating the game to people living on their territory, something extremly easy to do when you have DRM in place, or, like what happens for some Steam games, only allows them to play a censored version.

    That the problem with all DRM, no matter how "consumer friendly" they might be, as long as they are in place you are at the complete mercy of the right owners good will, and thanks to the EULA they are free to change their mind and change the condition/limitation any time they want without having to justify it to anybody.

  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zhirzzh wrote: »
    yutt wrote: »
    That's like saying, 'Muder is illegal, but people still get killed all the time, so why bother trying to stop them?'
    No. It is like saying murder is illegal, and wearing giant penis shaped hats isn't preventing murder, so maybe we should consider other methods and take these stupid fucking hats off.

    No. DRM prevents casual theft, at best, but it is still preventing some of the theft, so there is little reason to abandon it. Especially when it is as non-intrusive as the DRM Hothead has used.

    And if wearing penis hat guarunteed that I would never be murdered I would wear two.


    It prevents theft from people who have never heard of Google. That's almost 3 people with internet access.

    You are completely over estimating the intelligence of the average comsumer.

    To that point, I am well aware that people buying the PA game are more savvy then the average. We are lucky the DRM is as loose as it is and the game doesn't come with hired goons who rifle through your file system and break your knees for shits and giggles.

    The list never changes: http://www.infinitebacklog.com
    Chamberlain.jpg
  • yuttyutt Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    It is a pretty scary world when the consumers are now passionately arguing to have their rights restricted.

    Anyhoo, I've made my point. The DRM did nothing. It served as nothing more than a pointless restriction to legitimate customers. As always has been, and as always will be.

  • NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Gersen wrote: »
    Willeth wrote: »
    EDIT: On re-reading your post it seems like that actually wasn't what you were driving at. More that if you have these restrictive systems in place, and then something happens with the company, you're suddenly locked out of something you have purchased through no fault of your own. Correct?

    Exactly, I don't accuse HH or being part of an evil conspiracy bound to steal gamers money and I pretty sure that Vlad realy means what he say, but even if that's true today, we, and even him, have no idea if it's still going to be true tomorrow. Maybe in six/seven/twenty months Vlad no longer work for HH or the guys in charge at that time might be a lot less permissive that they are today. The gaming industry history is full of talented creators who today have no longer any control on their creation.

    And even if HH and Vlad are still here in 10 years there is still a lot of things out of their control that can happens, for example some guy who come and say "Hey! this music/picture/whatever you use in your game belongs to me! I will sue the hell out of you!" as a result HH might be forced for some time, or even forever, to stop selling and of course turn off the activation server, same goes if some country decide that the game is too violent, amoral, cruel against oranges, etc... and forbid HH from selling/activating the game to people living on their territory, something extremly easy to do when you have DRM in place, or, like what happens for some Steam games, only allows them to play a censored version.

    That the problem with all DRM, no matter how "consumer friendly" they might be, as long as they are in place you are at the complete mercy of the right owners good will, and thanks to the EULA they are free to change their mind and change the condition/limitation any time they want without having to justify it to anybody.

    Out of curiosity, don't you think that being the rights owners means that they get to control access to the content they own?

  • ZhirzzhZhirzzh Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    NotACrook wrote: »
    Gersen wrote: »
    Willeth wrote: »
    EDIT: On re-reading your post it seems like that actually wasn't what you were driving at. More that if you have these restrictive systems in place, and then something happens with the company, you're suddenly locked out of something you have purchased through no fault of your own. Correct?

    Exactly, I don't accuse HH or being part of an evil conspiracy bound to steal gamers money and I pretty sure that Vlad realy means what he say, but even if that's true today, we, and even him, have no idea if it's still going to be true tomorrow. Maybe in six/seven/twenty months Vlad no longer work for HH or the guys in charge at that time might be a lot less permissive that they are today. The gaming industry history is full of talented creators who today have no longer any control on their creation.

    And even if HH and Vlad are still here in 10 years there is still a lot of things out of their control that can happens, for example some guy who come and say "Hey! this music/picture/whatever you use in your game belongs to me! I will sue the hell out of you!" as a result HH might be forced for some time, or even forever, to stop selling and of course turn off the activation server, same goes if some country decide that the game is too violent, amoral, cruel against oranges, etc... and forbid HH from selling/activating the game to people living on their territory, something extremly easy to do when you have DRM in place, or, like what happens for some Steam games, only allows them to play a censored version.

    That the problem with all DRM, no matter how "consumer friendly" they might be, as long as they are in place you are at the complete mercy of the right owners good will, and thanks to the EULA they are free to change their mind and change the condition/limitation any time they want without having to justify it to anybody.

    Out of curiosity, don't you think that being the rights owners means that they get to control access to the content they own?

    In a perfect world, it would mean they could sell it, and we could then do whatever we wanted to it, with the rights holders politely asking us not to sell/give away copies, but only the original one we received (see: Stardock and Spiderweb)

    steam_sig.png
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    yutt wrote: »
    It is a pretty scary world when the consumers are now passionately arguing to have their rights restricted.

    Anyhoo, I've made my point. The DRM did nothing. It served as nothing more than a pointless restriction to legitimate customers. As always has been, and as always will be.

    But
    It didn't really do anything to restrict you
    So how is it a restriction?

    EDIT: Or, if the DRM is that big of a hassle, and you have a 360, download it for that and shut the hell up

  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Lol! wrote: »
    yutt wrote: »
    It is a pretty scary world when the consumers are now passionately arguing to have their rights restricted.

    Anyhoo, I've made my point. The DRM did nothing. It served as nothing more than a pointless restriction to legitimate customers. As always has been, and as always will be.

    But
    It didn't really do anything to restrict you
    So how is it a restriction?

    'The Man' is telling him he can't steal it.

    The list never changes: http://www.infinitebacklog.com
    Chamberlain.jpg
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    Fuck The Man, telling me I can't do something that's illegal

  • TankHammerTankHammer Extreme Ghostbuster Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    If you aren't going to try and pirate the game, then what possible offense could you be taking to a system that is basically just an annoyance to those who wish to copy the game and distribute it themselves (for free or otherwise)?

    If the copy-protection wasn't in place then instead of having a few dozen pirates hosting cracked copies on a torrent site, you'd have hundreds. Anyone could pass the file around (especially because the install file isn't bound to a physical disc even at first).

    Use some perspective here. This is a game made by a smaller company in conjuncture with a webcomic that I assume you really enjoy. This isn't going to sell 100 million copies worldwide, it's not a blockbuster, it's certainly a smaller release that only those familiar with Penny-Arcade can really be expected to buy (with few exceptions). The game needs to make money or it spells trouble for the franchise and the people who worked on the game (who have been ever so nice to speak to us directly).
    Get that stick out of your ass and quit pretending you're some firey rebel leader throwing a molotov through the penthouse apartment of the establishment. Not every piece of software should be open-source and free to be copied infinitely. Game companies can't be naive and idealistic enough to rely on the honor system that their customers will go through the proper channels and pay $20 for a game they could easily download for free online.

    HotHead worked on this game. They seem honest and upstanding individuals and if they feel that they should add a small level of protection to their software to prevent being taken advantage of then I support them. I really have a hard time seeing how typing in a registration key upon install is a major inconvenience to anyone except those who do not have said keys.

    4icmw.jpg TankHammer | 2zivq6q.jpg
  • GrathGrath Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    well said Kantankeris.

    I was trying to say something similar but all i could come up with "goddamnit you fucking retard stop bitching"

    3ds Code 0619-3710-2995
  • ZhirzzhZhirzzh Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    If you aren't going to try and pirate the game, then what possible offense could you be taking to a system that is basically just an annoyance to those who wish to copy the game and distribute it themselves (for free or otherwise)?

    If the copy-protection wasn't in place then instead of having a few dozen pirates hosting cracked copies on a torrent site, you'd have hundreds. Anyone could pass the file around (especially because the install file isn't bound to a physical disc even at first).

    I don't see how DRM helps with that at all. Anyone can download a pre-cracked copy, and can then host it. Stardock and Spiderweb both do very well for themselves. Why can't Hothead?

    steam_sig.png
  • GrathGrath Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    if you're buying the game legally what do you care?

    3ds Code 0619-3710-2995
  • ZhirzzhZhirzzh Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Grath wrote: »
    if you're buying the game legally what do you care?

    Why do you care that I care? For the record, it's not that bad, and I'm going to buy the game so I can play it this weekend.

    That said, I'm concerned that if something happens to Hothead, I could lose my ability to play the game. If the company is bought by someone who won't activate more than five copies, or they are destroyed in a nuclear inferno for example.

    steam_sig.png
  • Oz K. FodrotskiOz K. Fodrotski Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    StarDock has been referenced a number of times here, and they are, indeed, a company that does not include DRM with their titles.

    Mostly.

    If you want to play online, then you're going to need a valid key. You get a valid key for a StarDock game by (surprise!) buying the game.

    Now, Sins of a Solar Empire can be played single-player, or LAN multiplayer, without a key. Grand. Phenomenal. I'd easily spend 90% or more of my gameplay in those two modes anyway. I installed my roommate's copy, and figured "hey, maybe this is a free ride."

    Within the month, I had purchased a digital copy, even though I've never played online.

    Why?

    Because I loved the game, and cared enough to support the people who made it. That kind of quality is something that deserves $50 of my money, DRM or not.

    I can understand the whipper-snappers that are up-in-arms that you can't install Rain-Slick without a key. But as there's no online multiplayer caveat to be had, and because Hothead / Jerry and Mike would like to [strike]get rich[/strike] make some money with this game (so they can bring us more delectable episodic content, among so many other largely-free things), I think that their EULA and DRM scheme is non-draconian and ultimately generous. Hell, I was happy to buy for $20 a game that I could have installed on each of my computers; any more than that (future computers, for instance) is icing.

    Sure, maybe DRM won't do any good in the long-run. But don't overlook quality because of it. Support games that are worth supporting.

    And certainly don't misportray StarDock -- they're not a charity outfit.

  • TankHammerTankHammer Extreme Ghostbuster Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zhirzzh wrote: »
    If you aren't going to try and pirate the game, then what possible offense could you be taking to a system that is basically just an annoyance to those who wish to copy the game and distribute it themselves (for free or otherwise)?

    If the copy-protection wasn't in place then instead of having a few dozen pirates hosting cracked copies on a torrent site, you'd have hundreds. Anyone could pass the file around (especially because the install file isn't bound to a physical disc even at first).

    I don't see how DRM helps with that at all. Anyone can download a pre-cracked copy, and can then host it. Stardock and Spiderweb both do very well for themselves. Why can't Hothead?

    Anyone can download and host a pre-cracked (illegal) copy of the game but to do that deliberately is a lot tougher for the average consumer to do (or justify) than just passing the original install file around. It's the difference between walking into an unguarded movie theater without paying and having to sneak by a ticket-checker to do the same thing.
    Plus, there's the added divine justice of a software-thief getting screwed when he finds out RSPOD.exe just unleashed a nest of worms into his system.

    4icmw.jpg TankHammer | 2zivq6q.jpg
  • ZhirzzhZhirzzh Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Who said they were? If they were, it would defeat using them in arguments for the profitability of non-DRM. Gal Civ 2 had no multiplayer, and all they key was used for was getting priority downloads of patches. Rainslick is closer to Gal Civ than Sins because of the lack of multi-player.

    steam_sig.png
  • ZhirzzhZhirzzh Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zhirzzh wrote: »
    If you aren't going to try and pirate the game, then what possible offense could you be taking to a system that is basically just an annoyance to those who wish to copy the game and distribute it themselves (for free or otherwise)?

    If the copy-protection wasn't in place then instead of having a few dozen pirates hosting cracked copies on a torrent site, you'd have hundreds. Anyone could pass the file around (especially because the install file isn't bound to a physical disc even at first).

    I don't see how DRM helps with that at all. Anyone can download a pre-cracked copy, and can then host it. Stardock and Spiderweb both do very well for themselves. Why can't Hothead?

    Anyone can download and host a pre-cracked (illegal) copy of the game but to do that deliberately is a lot tougher for the average consumer to do (or justify) than just passing the original install file around. It's the difference between walking into an unguarded movie theater without paying and having to sneak by a ticket-checker to do the same thing.
    Plus, there's the added divine justice of a software-thief getting screwed when he finds out RSPOD.exe just unleashed a nest of worms into his system.

    No, it's the difference between walking into an unguarded theater, and one where the guard has been killed by someone else. The body might scare some people, but those people aren't the people who are going to want a Penny Arcade game (Penny Arcade being a fairly net-savy comic).

    steam_sig.png
  • TankHammerTankHammer Extreme Ghostbuster Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zhirzzh wrote: »
    Zhirzzh wrote: »
    If you aren't going to try and pirate the game, then what possible offense could you be taking to a system that is basically just an annoyance to those who wish to copy the game and distribute it themselves (for free or otherwise)?

    If the copy-protection wasn't in place then instead of having a few dozen pirates hosting cracked copies on a torrent site, you'd have hundreds. Anyone could pass the file around (especially because the install file isn't bound to a physical disc even at first).

    I don't see how DRM helps with that at all. Anyone can download a pre-cracked copy, and can then host it. Stardock and Spiderweb both do very well for themselves. Why can't Hothead?

    Anyone can download and host a pre-cracked (illegal) copy of the game but to do that deliberately is a lot tougher for the average consumer to do (or justify) than just passing the original install file around. It's the difference between walking into an unguarded movie theater without paying and having to sneak by a ticket-checker to do the same thing.
    Plus, there's the added divine justice of a software-thief getting screwed when he finds out RSPOD.exe just unleashed a nest of worms into his system.

    No, it's the difference between walking into an unguarded theater, and one where the guard has been killed by someone else. The body might scare some people, but those people aren't the people who are going to want a Penny Arcade game.

    Oh really? So HotHead has been "killed" already?

    edit: You are either a troll or a very angry little 1337 haxor. Anyone who doesn't see your point of view, they must be wrong and in need of more x-treme imagery.

    4icmw.jpg TankHammer | 2zivq6q.jpg
  • Oz K. FodrotskiOz K. Fodrotski Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Zhirzzh wrote: »
    Who said they were? If they were, it would defeat using them in arguments for the profitability of non-DRM. Gal Civ 2 had no multiplayer, and all they key was used for was getting priority downloads of patches. Rainslick is closer to Gal Civ than Sins because of the lack of multi-player.

    Didn't know that about GalCiv, thanks for pointing it out.

    My sentiment remains, however.

  • GersenGersen Registered User
    edited May 2008
    Anyone can download and host a pre-cracked (illegal) copy of the game but to do that deliberately is a lot tougher for the average consumer to do (or justify) than just passing the original install file around. It's the difference between walking into an unguarded movie theater without paying and having to sneak by a ticket-checker to do the same thing.

    You probably never heard of it but there is a little something called "serial number" that's been used for years, for example by some shareware programs, that has exactly the same effect but without the negative side of DRM.

    You don't need DRM to prevent "casual" piracy and it's totaly "useless" agains real piracy (i.e pirate who heard about search engines) so why bother with it.

  • ZhirzzhZhirzzh Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Gersen wrote: »
    Anyone can download and host a pre-cracked (illegal) copy of the game but to do that deliberately is a lot tougher for the average consumer to do (or justify) than just passing the original install file around. It's the difference between walking into an unguarded movie theater without paying and having to sneak by a ticket-checker to do the same thing.

    You probably never heard of it but there is a little something called "serial number" that's been used for years, for example by some shareware programs, that has exactly the same effect but without the negative side of DRM.

    You don't need DRM to prevent "casual" piracy and it's totaly "useless" agains real piracy (i.e pirate who heard about search engines) so why bother with it.


    Exactly, someone who can find a Keygen can also find a crack; DRM just makes it a tiny bit harder for the guy who makes the actual crack. At the cost of pissing off a lot of people.

    steam_sig.png
  • Oz K. FodrotskiOz K. Fodrotski Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Gersen wrote: »
    You probably never heard of it but there is a little something called "serial number" that's been used for years, for example by some shareware programs, that has exactly the same effect but without the negative side of DRM.

    You don't need DRM to prevent "casual" piracy and it's totaly "useless" agains real piracy (i.e pirate who heard about search engines) so why bother with it.

    Lines are beginning to blur. How is a serial number not DRM, and how is the "DRM" scheme on Rain-Slick any different?

    Is it the fact that Rain-Slick 'dials home?' Because if a one-time communication with a server for purposes of game validation bugs you, I urge you to never use netstat.

  • ZhirzzhZhirzzh Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    As you haven't read the thread... The dialing home is the issue. If hothead is destroyed, that ability is removed. We just want a serial that will work without the net.

    Edit: Going somewhere, will be back to debate later.

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  • ASimPersonASimPerson And they will tremble again at the sound of our silence!Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The main worry with "dial-home" schemes is that someday, "home" might not exist. So then you're stuck.

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  • OmegasquashOmegasquash Boston, MARegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    Zhirzzh wrote: »
    Exactly, someone who can find a Keygen can also find a crack; DRM just makes it a tiny bit harder for the guy who makes the actual crack. At the cost of pissing off a lot of people.

    And there's a problem with that? It's incredibly difficult to prevent piracy, we all know this, but is it wrong for them to do something (not EVERYTHING) they can to prevent piracy?

    HotHead representatives (and forgive me, I don't know his/her name) is in this thread saying that if you ask them, they'll be cool about it and let you install the game on more than one rig, unless I read it wrong. They're not sneakily spying, so what's the problem?

    I don't mean to come off as hostile, and I got this game for the 360 (based solely on the fact that I prefer to game in my living room, and my PC is having sound issues right now), but I'm still failing to see where this is a problem.

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