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Fucking Cheaters

1235789

Posts

  • ZonkytonkmanZonkytonkman Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Zonky fair enough on that, but don't they scale the tests?
    Like if everyone does incredibly poorly for instance, something something.

    sometimes, sometimes not.

    what gets me is that you are being tested on understanding the material, and demonstrating your ability to apply that materia.

    but if you can't remember the formulas, you can't answer the questions.

    so now you're being tested on memorization skills

    which aren't relevant, in my opinion.

    basically, all the teachers that knew wtf they were doing never required memorization, the ones that didn't know how to teach thought it was a great way to judge progress.

    Fantastic

    My school seems to know what is up, and haven't been fucking pricks about what to include, they leave basic shit off the formula sheets and include the more complex formulas, so you should've done things with the more basic ones a thousand times already and know them, the harder ones you should understand what they mean and don't give any advantage to someone who doesn't know the rudimentary stuff.

    well now that makes sense.

    Spoiler:
  • Lord DaveLord Dave Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Jimothy wrote: »

    So in other words, he worked smarter, not harder.

    That is generally how I think of it.

    If you don't cheat at all, that's something you can be proud of. If you had to, it probably only helped a little bit, at most it is the difference between a C and a D. No one gets through school by relying on cheating, and you aren't going to pass at all if you haven't learned the majority of the material.

    So I have no problem with letting people cheat, because no one is suddenly going to get straight A's that they don't deserve. Not possible.

    You ever heard of a curve?
    Douchebag frosted-tip asian #47 and all his buddies cheat on the exam.
    I don't.
    My grade goes down.
    Fuck cheaters and the rationalizations they rode in and out of college on.

    Denny's is for winners.
    mkc.pngmkc.pngmkc.pngmontykevin.png
  • Lord DaveLord Dave Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    wait why was my photo posted?

    I think it's because this Bear guys is kinda retarded.

    Denny's is for winners.
    mkc.pngmkc.pngmkc.pngmontykevin.png
  • That Dave FellaThat Dave Fella Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    wait why was my photo posted?

    I think it's because this Bear guys is kinda retarded.

    yeah it was a bit of a surprise

    i thought i was an image macro

  • Lord DaveLord Dave Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    wait why was my photo posted?

    I think it's because this Bear guys is kinda retarded.

    yeah it was a bit of a surprise

    i thought i was an image macro

    I initially assumed it was a screenshot from some movie I hadn't seen.

    Denny's is for winners.
    mkc.pngmkc.pngmkc.pngmontykevin.png
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    wait why was my photo posted?

    I think it's because this Bear guys is kinda retarded.

    yeah it was a bit of a surprise

    i thought i was an image macro

    I initially assumed it was a screenshot from some movie I hadn't seen.

    So did I.

  • JohnHamJohnHam Famous Actor Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Quoth wrote: »
    JohnHam wrote: »
    Quoth wrote: »
    Yeah, call me crazy, but this makes me just a tiny bit nervous. You can't pass your final without cheating, but you're going to design a 40-story building? Um...

    Since when does one person design/build a forty story building? Or a bridge? You can't even write a magazine article without it being looked over/edited by someone else. What major doesn't have projects, papers, or oral presentations throughout the years that force you to prove you know something about the class besides filling in little bubbles on a sheet of paper.

    I bet there are a lot of a really talented people that cheated through school, and a lot of total fuckwits that muscled through the old-fashioned way (fifteen miles in the snow uphill both ways chased by velociraptors).

    I had kids cheating all over my shit in Elementary/Middle/occasionally high school, and I understand the vitriol for those who cheat, because who the fuck do those dudes think they are getting the same reward for less work, right? But I think it's naive to say that someone who cheats his way through college is by default inept in their eventual profession.

    I think it sets a scary precedent... if you're cheating on an exam, then that exam is not accurately reflecting your knowledge and ability. So how do you prove that you know what you're doing? You work, obviously, but what is the point of school and testing if you're just going to learn everything on the job anyway? And moreover, at that point then the only way to tell whether someone knows what they're doing is by seeing whether they fail. Again, I find that scary.

    I mean, maybe the solution is to go back to apprenticeships all around?

    I would say, in general, that ~80% of the exams I have taken in High School and College were based upon rote memorization that couldn't give you an accurate picture of whether the student did or did not understand underlying concepts.

    If you NEED cheating to graduate (w/ a bachelor's, at least), then, yeah, you're probably an idiot. But, it's not like you're walking right out of graduation into a designing role at an architectural firm or the fucking Pentagon. If I'm not mistaken, you're not even allowed to approve blueprints until like 5-7 years into your engineering CAREER, when you have to "earn your stamp (of approval)".

    In the end, you're going to be starting out as the low man on the totem pole no matter what you're doing or where you work right out of school (unless you're pulling some other bullshit), so when you start working in a real job, ain't nobody to do your work for you. You either learn, or you will get fired, probably quickly.

  • FromAlpha2OmegaFromAlpha2Omega Registered User
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    You ever heard of a curve?
    Douchebag frosted-tip asian #47 and all his buddies cheat on the exam.
    I don't.
    My grade goes down.
    Fuck cheaters and the rationalizations they rode in and out of college on.
    This is basically how I feel. Their cheating imposes an external cost on me.

    The only solutions are to work even harder and have less of a life or cheat as well.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie a crucified man can't be attached to anything elseRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Jimothy wrote: »

    So in other words, he worked smarter, not harder.

    That is generally how I think of it.

    If you don't cheat at all, that's something you can be proud of. If you had to, it probably only helped a little bit, at most it is the difference between a C and a D. No one gets through school by relying on cheating, and you aren't going to pass at all if you haven't learned the majority of the material.

    So I have no problem with letting people cheat, because no one is suddenly going to get straight A's that they don't deserve. Not possible.

    You ever heard of a curve?
    Douchebag frosted-tip asian #47 and all his buddies cheat on the exam.
    I don't.
    My grade goes down.
    Fuck cheaters and the rationalizations they rode in and out of college on.

    oh dang that's how it works?
    so if i 100% a test, i drop everyone elses grades even lower? D:

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • Lord DaveLord Dave Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    JohnHam wrote: »
    Quoth wrote: »
    JohnHam wrote: »
    Quoth wrote: »
    Yeah, call me crazy, but this makes me just a tiny bit nervous. You can't pass your final without cheating, but you're going to design a 40-story building? Um...

    Since when does one person design/build a forty story building? Or a bridge? You can't even write a magazine article without it being looked over/edited by someone else. What major doesn't have projects, papers, or oral presentations throughout the years that force you to prove you know something about the class besides filling in little bubbles on a sheet of paper.

    I bet there are a lot of a really talented people that cheated through school, and a lot of total fuckwits that muscled through the old-fashioned way (fifteen miles in the snow uphill both ways chased by velociraptors).

    I had kids cheating all over my shit in Elementary/Middle/occasionally high school, and I understand the vitriol for those who cheat, because who the fuck do those dudes think they are getting the same reward for less work, right? But I think it's naive to say that someone who cheats his way through college is by default inept in their eventual profession.

    I think it sets a scary precedent... if you're cheating on an exam, then that exam is not accurately reflecting your knowledge and ability. So how do you prove that you know what you're doing? You work, obviously, but what is the point of school and testing if you're just going to learn everything on the job anyway? And moreover, at that point then the only way to tell whether someone knows what they're doing is by seeing whether they fail. Again, I find that scary.

    I mean, maybe the solution is to go back to apprenticeships all around?

    I would say, in general, that ~80% of the exams I have taken in High School and College were based upon rote memorization that couldn't give you an accurate picture of whether the student did or did not understand underlying concepts.

    If you NEED cheating to graduate (w/ a bachelor's, at least), then, yeah, you're probably an idiot. But, it's not like you're walking right out of graduation into a designing role at an architectural firm or the fucking Pentagon. If I'm not mistaken, you're not even allowed to approve blueprints until like 5-7 years into your engineering CAREER, when you have to "earn your stamp (of approval)".

    In the end, you're going to be starting out as the low man on the totem pole no matter what you're doing or where you work right out of school (unless you're pulling some other bullshit), so when you start working in a real job, ain't nobody to do your work for you. You either learn, or you will get fired, probably quickly.

    None of this is particularly relevant.
    If you are a cheater, you are an asshole. You could be the damn god of architecture, building perfect bridges with your mind powers, but you're still a douche for cheating in school.
    This is basic moral shit here.

    Denny's is for winners.
    mkc.pngmkc.pngmkc.pngmontykevin.png
  • QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    JohnHam wrote: »
    Quoth wrote: »
    JohnHam wrote: »
    Since when does one person design/build a forty story building? Or a bridge? You can't even write a magazine article without it being looked over/edited by someone else. What major doesn't have projects, papers, or oral presentations throughout the years that force you to prove you know something about the class besides filling in little bubbles on a sheet of paper.

    I bet there are a lot of a really talented people that cheated through school, and a lot of total fuckwits that muscled through the old-fashioned way (fifteen miles in the snow uphill both ways chased by velociraptors).

    I had kids cheating all over my shit in Elementary/Middle/occasionally high school, and I understand the vitriol for those who cheat, because who the fuck do those dudes think they are getting the same reward for less work, right? But I think it's naive to say that someone who cheats his way through college is by default inept in their eventual profession.

    I think it sets a scary precedent... if you're cheating on an exam, then that exam is not accurately reflecting your knowledge and ability. So how do you prove that you know what you're doing? You work, obviously, but what is the point of school and testing if you're just going to learn everything on the job anyway? And moreover, at that point then the only way to tell whether someone knows what they're doing is by seeing whether they fail. Again, I find that scary.

    I mean, maybe the solution is to go back to apprenticeships all around?

    I would say, in general, that ~80% of the exams I have taken in High School and College were based upon rote memorization that couldn't give you an accurate picture of whether the student did or did not understand underlying concepts.

    If you NEED cheating to graduate (w/ a bachelor's, at least), then, yeah, you're probably an idiot. But, it's not like you're walking right out of graduation into a designing role at an architectural firm or the fucking Pentagon. If I'm not mistaken, you're not even allowed to approve blueprints until like 5-7 years into your engineering CAREER, when you have to "earn your stamp (of approval)".

    In the end, you're going to be starting out as the low man on the totem pole no matter what you're doing or where you work right out of school (unless you're pulling some other bullshit), so when you start working in a real job, ain't nobody to do your work for you. You either learn, or you will get fired, probably quickly.

    Again, this calls into question the value of college if that is the case. As an employer, I would be pretty peeved if I had to keep hiring and firing people who were supposed to be educated but turned out to be morons. It takes time and money to hire and train someone, and it negatively impacts the bottom line if that someone doesn't work out for whatever reason.

    “Hic non defectus est, sed cattus minxit desuper nocte quadam. Confundatur pessimus cattus qui minxit super librum istum in nocte Daventrie, et consimiliter omnes alii propter illum. Et cavendum valde ne permittantur libri aperti per noctem ubi cattie venire possunt.”
    Site | The Miami Grindstone | Twitter | Dropbox | Picture by Galen Dara
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Thanks Dave, I've been trying to save that less bluntly for a while, at least thinking it, now I can rest, but I won't because I'm still not too sleepy.

  • ZonkytonkmanZonkytonkman Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    JohnHam wrote: »
    Quoth wrote: »
    JohnHam wrote: »
    Quoth wrote: »
    Yeah, call me crazy, but this makes me just a tiny bit nervous. You can't pass your final without cheating, but you're going to design a 40-story building? Um...

    Since when does one person design/build a forty story building? Or a bridge? You can't even write a magazine article without it being looked over/edited by someone else. What major doesn't have projects, papers, or oral presentations throughout the years that force you to prove you know something about the class besides filling in little bubbles on a sheet of paper.

    I bet there are a lot of a really talented people that cheated through school, and a lot of total fuckwits that muscled through the old-fashioned way (fifteen miles in the snow uphill both ways chased by velociraptors).

    I had kids cheating all over my shit in Elementary/Middle/occasionally high school, and I understand the vitriol for those who cheat, because who the fuck do those dudes think they are getting the same reward for less work, right? But I think it's naive to say that someone who cheats his way through college is by default inept in their eventual profession.

    I think it sets a scary precedent... if you're cheating on an exam, then that exam is not accurately reflecting your knowledge and ability. So how do you prove that you know what you're doing? You work, obviously, but what is the point of school and testing if you're just going to learn everything on the job anyway? And moreover, at that point then the only way to tell whether someone knows what they're doing is by seeing whether they fail. Again, I find that scary.

    I mean, maybe the solution is to go back to apprenticeships all around?

    I would say, in general, that ~80% of the exams I have taken in High School and College were based upon rote memorization that couldn't give you an accurate picture of whether the student did or did not understand underlying concepts.

    If you NEED cheating to graduate (w/ a bachelor's, at least), then, yeah, you're probably an idiot. But, it's not like you're walking right out of graduation into a designing role at an architectural firm or the fucking Pentagon. If I'm not mistaken, you're not even allowed to approve blueprints until like 5-7 years into your engineering CAREER, when you have to "earn your stamp (of approval)".

    In the end, you're going to be starting out as the low man on the totem pole no matter what you're doing or where you work right out of school (unless you're pulling some other bullshit), so when you start working in a real job, ain't nobody to do your work for you. You either learn, or you will get fired, probably quickly.

    engineering in canada is 4 years working under a qualified engineer, doing work that is applicable to your title, and then there's a test, and someone reviews your work thoroughly, then you get accredited as a P.Eng and can approve designs.

    But there's also other checks in industry. If i want to build a building, the money lenders want to know that i'm a competent designer, and i need to prove to them that i am. Same with the insurance guys, the municipality, and some others that i'm sure that 'm forgetting.

    Spoiler:
  • Lord DaveLord Dave Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Jimothy wrote: »

    So in other words, he worked smarter, not harder.

    That is generally how I think of it.

    If you don't cheat at all, that's something you can be proud of. If you had to, it probably only helped a little bit, at most it is the difference between a C and a D. No one gets through school by relying on cheating, and you aren't going to pass at all if you haven't learned the majority of the material.

    So I have no problem with letting people cheat, because no one is suddenly going to get straight A's that they don't deserve. Not possible.

    You ever heard of a curve?
    Douchebag frosted-tip asian #47 and all his buddies cheat on the exam.
    I don't.
    My grade goes down.
    Fuck cheaters and the rationalizations they rode in and out of college on.

    oh dang that's how it works?
    so if i 100% a test, i drop everyone elses grades even lower? D:

    Is this supposed to be sarcasm?
    Because yes, that is how a curve works.

    Denny's is for winners.
    mkc.pngmkc.pngmkc.pngmontykevin.png
  • QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Zonky, I want you to know that what you say makes me feel better. Seriously.

    I guess my only other concern would be that the qualified engineers also got where they are by cheating, such that their supervision is meaningless, and then there's cheating on the final test, and the reviewer was also a cheater, and...

    at that point I just have to let go and hope for the best because I'm out of my paranoia medication.

    “Hic non defectus est, sed cattus minxit desuper nocte quadam. Confundatur pessimus cattus qui minxit super librum istum in nocte Daventrie, et consimiliter omnes alii propter illum. Et cavendum valde ne permittantur libri aperti per noctem ubi cattie venire possunt.”
    Site | The Miami Grindstone | Twitter | Dropbox | Picture by Galen Dara
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Probably not at your age though BRT, at least they didn't do it here. Not until last 2 years, which were the ones that counted, well, the last year counted, the other one let you do the last year.

  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie a crucified man can't be attached to anything elseRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Jimothy wrote: »

    So in other words, he worked smarter, not harder.

    That is generally how I think of it.

    If you don't cheat at all, that's something you can be proud of. If you had to, it probably only helped a little bit, at most it is the difference between a C and a D. No one gets through school by relying on cheating, and you aren't going to pass at all if you haven't learned the majority of the material.

    So I have no problem with letting people cheat, because no one is suddenly going to get straight A's that they don't deserve. Not possible.

    You ever heard of a curve?
    Douchebag frosted-tip asian #47 and all his buddies cheat on the exam.
    I don't.
    My grade goes down.
    Fuck cheaters and the rationalizations they rode in and out of college on.

    oh dang that's how it works?
    so if i 100% a test, i drop everyone elses grades even lower? D:

    Is this supposed to be sarcasm?
    Because yes, that is how a curve works.
    er no, i never really bothered looking into curving
    i always assumed it raised people's grades. it would explain why everyone always asks for one...

    oh okay stim

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Jimothy wrote: »

    So in other words, he worked smarter, not harder.

    That is generally how I think of it.

    If you don't cheat at all, that's something you can be proud of. If you had to, it probably only helped a little bit, at most it is the difference between a C and a D. No one gets through school by relying on cheating, and you aren't going to pass at all if you haven't learned the majority of the material.

    So I have no problem with letting people cheat, because no one is suddenly going to get straight A's that they don't deserve. Not possible.

    You ever heard of a curve?
    Douchebag frosted-tip asian #47 and all his buddies cheat on the exam.
    I don't.
    My grade goes down.
    Fuck cheaters and the rationalizations they rode in and out of college on.

    oh dang that's how it works?
    so if i 100% a test, i drop everyone elses grades even lower? D:

    Is this supposed to be sarcasm?
    Because yes, that is how a curve works.
    er no, i never really bothered looking into curving
    i always assumed it raised people's grades. it would explain why everyone always asks for one...

    That is because if no one scores 100%, they raise their mark to be the 'new' 100%, then everyone is marked accordingly, at least that is a simple method. Otherwise I think one of the things is a normal distribution, like 95% of the people lie within 2 standard devs of the mean, kind of that thing.

  • Lord DaveLord Dave Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Jimothy wrote: »

    So in other words, he worked smarter, not harder.

    That is generally how I think of it.

    If you don't cheat at all, that's something you can be proud of. If you had to, it probably only helped a little bit, at most it is the difference between a C and a D. No one gets through school by relying on cheating, and you aren't going to pass at all if you haven't learned the majority of the material.

    So I have no problem with letting people cheat, because no one is suddenly going to get straight A's that they don't deserve. Not possible.

    You ever heard of a curve?
    Douchebag frosted-tip asian #47 and all his buddies cheat on the exam.
    I don't.
    My grade goes down.
    Fuck cheaters and the rationalizations they rode in and out of college on.

    oh dang that's how it works?
    so if i 100% a test, i drop everyone elses grades even lower? D:

    Is this supposed to be sarcasm?
    Because yes, that is how a curve works.
    er no, i never really bothered looking into curving
    i always assumed it raised people's grades. it would explain why everyone always asks for one...

    The reason it "raises people's grades" is that you can get a 23/100 on a test but still get an A if your grade was the highest.
    But then if everybody else cheats and gets a 42/100, you're fucked.

    Denny's is for winners.
    mkc.pngmkc.pngmkc.pngmontykevin.png
  • Auntie ShibbyAuntie Shibby Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2008
    Grading on a curve is the best thing in the world. It shows teachers how much the students understand the subject and to make lesson plans accordingly.

    clowninthewoods.png
  • ZonkytonkmanZonkytonkman Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Quoth wrote: »
    Zonky, I want you to know that what you say makes me feel better. Seriously.

    I guess my only other concern would be that the qualified engineers also got where they are by cheating, such that their supervision is meaningless, and then there's cheating on the final test, and the reviewer was also a cheater, and...

    at that point I just have to let go and hope for the best because I'm out of my paranoia medication.

    corruption, laziness and friends rubber stamping other friends designs are far more of a concern than complicated, unlikely coincidences of inept cheaters.

    edit: quoth, it's worth looking into large engineering disasters and the root causes of them. They are really, really interesting. Rockets that are shipped in parts to appease senators that re up for election, bolts that are double loaded because it was cheaper to buy rod that was only threaded on the end vs threaded all the way down, designs being copied verbatim from environments where they are suitable to environments where they no longer apply, etc.

    IT's all really interesting, scary stuff. Loads of bystanders have died because someone decided to change a design slightly to save .5%

    Spoiler:
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie a crucified man can't be attached to anything elseRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    mm okay, well that makes sense
    one of my friends tried to explain it to me once but we ended up talking about MTG

    3926 4292 8829
    Beasteh wrote: »
    *おなら*
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie totally sane in the AsylumRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    There’s a fairly famous cheating story that’s been going around for years in the university I went to.
    It goes like this. Four guys studying the same subject (no one ever agrees what it is) have spent their entire first year drinking, socialising and doing anything that does not in any way resemble study. Their exam is the next day. They sit up all night trying to learn a year of work in twelve hours.

    They wake up half an hour after the exam has begun.

    After a few minutes of blind panic, one guy has a solution. They’re going to wait until the exam has finished, then go to their professor together, and say that they had to attend a funeral in their hometown. While driving back, one of their tyres burst. They were stranded in the middle of nowhere for several hours while waiting for someone to come and change the wheel.

    The professor hears the sob story and tells them no problem. They’re to come back in an hour and he’ll let them sit the exam while he supervises.

    They spend the hour interrogating classmates about the exam and cramming as many of the answers as they possibly can. When the time comes to do the exam, the four of them are put in a large, empty room, each in a corner, and given the paper. The first page is exactly as their classmates described. Five questions, one percent per question. Easy stuff.

    Second page. One question. 95%.

    "Which wheel?"

  • JohnHamJohnHam Famous Actor Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Quoth wrote: »
    Again, this calls into question the value of college if that is the case. As an employer, I would be pretty peeved if I had to keep hiring and firing people who were supposed to be educated but turned out to be morons. It takes time and money to hire and train someone, and it negatively impacts the bottom line if that someone doesn't work out for whatever reason.

    Indeed, it would negatively impact the bottom line, but that has nothing to do with the initial point I was making: these measures are in place specifically so that those idiots are not in positions of power. I would guess that simple mathematics errors (like not carrying the one or some shit) result in more problems in the engineering profession than poorly taught engineers.

    It is also my experience that people who want to be/are engineers are generally of above-average intelligence in one way or another by default.

  • TelekineticTelekinetic Registered User
    edited June 2008
    I never did anything cheat like until Chemistry last semester. Had some hot lab partners who didn't test well, and I could take the scantron exams in about half the allowed time, so we worked out a 'system'

    There were two copies of a test, and they were passed out alternating (red/yellow, etc). After the first exam, we discovered that the tests all have the same question wording with the same answers (and the answers were in the same order), but they re-order the questions.

    They also handed out a periodic table.

    For the girl next to me, whose questions would be in a different order, I'd pass her my copy of the periodic table. Each row was a different answer letter, and I'd put the first two or three letters of whatever was the first answer to the question was in the appropriate row. Sounds complicated, but really wasn't that bad.

    Example:
    What is the formula for water?
    A) Poop
    B) H2O
    C)H2SO4
    D) undefined

    So to give her the answer, I'd put "poo" (since it's the first answer) in the second row to signify a 'B'...when she was taking the test, when she got to this question, she'd just have to look through the rows until she found 'poo' and then look and see what row it was in.

    The girl next to her had it easier, since we would have the same test. I would open a table in my graphing calculator, and punch in a two number code for each answer. The first digit would be the answer (1=A, 2=B, etc), and the second number would be how confident I was (1=wild ass guess, 3=eliminated some answers, 5 through 9, totally positive). Thus if the answer to question 1 was A and I was sure, 2 was C and I was sure, and I was putting C for 3 but I wasn't totally sure, I'd punch in:

    15
    38
    33

    The confidence system had the double benefit of giving her more information, and also disguising the table...if I got caught slipping her the calculator, noone would recognize those two digit numbers as an answer string...whereas if I'd passed her a table with ABACCABD it would be case closed.

    I got an A, they both got a B+ (due in part to their lab performance)

  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Quoth wrote: »
    Zonky, I want you to know that what you say makes me feel better. Seriously.

    I guess my only other concern would be that the qualified engineers also got where they are by cheating, such that their supervision is meaningless, and then there's cheating on the final test, and the reviewer was also a cheater, and...

    at that point I just have to let go and hope for the best because I'm out of my paranoia medication.

    corruption, laziness and friends rubber stamping other friends designs are far more of a concern than complicated, unlikely coincidences of inept cheaters.

    edit: quoth, it's worth looking into large engineering disasters and the root causes of them. They are really, really interesting. Rockets that are shipped in parts to appease senators that re up for election, bolts that are double loaded because it was cheaper to buy rod that was only threaded on the end vs threaded all the way down, designs being copied verbatim from environments where they are suitable to environments where they no longer apply, etc.

    IT's all really interesting, scary stuff. Loads of bystanders have died because someone decided to change a design slightly to save .5%

    I had a subject all about engineering ethics, well, almost all about that, I found it interesting.

  • Little JimLittle Jim __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2008
    JohnHam wrote: »
    It is also my experience that people who want to be/are engineers are generally of above-average intelligence in one way or another by default.

    lol

    lol

    th_crabz.png
  • Lord DaveLord Dave Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I never did anything cheat like until Chemistry last semester. Had some hot lab partners who didn't test well, and I could take the scantron exams in about half the allowed time, so we worked out a 'system'

    There were two copies of a test, and they were passed out alternating (red/yellow, etc). After the first exam, we discovered that the tests all have the same question wording with the same answers (and the answers were in the same order), but they re-order the questions.

    They also handed out a periodic table.

    For the girl next to me, whose questions would be in a different order, I'd pass her my copy of the periodic table. Each row was a different answer letter, and I'd put the first two or three letters of whatever was the first answer to the question was in the appropriate row. Sounds complicated, but really wasn't that bad.

    Example:
    What is the formula for water?
    A) Poop
    B) H2O
    C)H2SO4
    D) undefined

    So to give her the answer, I'd put "poo" (since it's the first answer) in the second row to signify a 'B'...when she was taking the test, when she got to this question, she'd just have to look through the rows until she found 'poo' and then look and see what row it was in.

    The girl next to her had it easier, since we would have the same test. I would open a table in my graphing calculator, and punch in a two number code for each answer. The first digit would be the answer (1=A, 2=B, etc), and the second number would be how confident I was (1=wild ass guess, 3=eliminated some answers, 5 through 9, totally positive). Thus if the answer to question 1 was A and I was sure, 2 was C and I was sure, and I was putting C for 3 but I wasn't totally sure, I'd punch in:

    15
    38
    33

    The confidence system had the double benefit of giving her more information, and also disguising the table...if I got caught slipping her the calculator, noone would recognize those two digit numbers as an answer string...whereas if I'd passed her a table with ABACCABD it would be case closed.

    I got an A, they both got a B+ (due in part to their lab performance)

    And some poor sucker who did the work himself but wasn't a hot girl with a horny douche for a lab partner got knocked down to a C.

    Denny's is for winners.
    mkc.pngmkc.pngmkc.pngmontykevin.png
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Little Jim wrote: »
    JohnHam wrote: »
    It is also my experience that people who want to be/are engineers are generally of above-average intelligence in one way or another by default.

    lol

    lol

    ^

    I have met so many idiots already.

  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    And some poor sucker who did the work himself but wasn't a hot girl with a horny douche for a lab partner got knocked down to a C.
    Yeah but who cares about them. Losers.

    nipplessig.jpg
  • ZonkytonkmanZonkytonkman Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Little Jim wrote: »
    JohnHam wrote: »
    It is also my experience that people who want to be/are engineers are generally of above-average intelligence in one way or another by default.

    lol

    lol

    ^

    I have met so many idiots already.

    in my experience, your class will be about 1/3 of its current size within a year or two, knocking out some of the chaff

    Spoiler:
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Little Jim wrote: »
    JohnHam wrote: »
    It is also my experience that people who want to be/are engineers are generally of above-average intelligence in one way or another by default.

    lol

    lol

    ^

    I have met so many idiots already.

    in my experience, your class will be about 1/3 of its current size within a year or two, knocking out some of the chaff

    I've already assumed this, also my current classes are the common year like I've said, so when people are split into their respective streams there will be that as well, so probably like 1/15. If we divide evenly amongst the 5 or so offered by this particular course, which will probably be even less, because I'm planning on Materials / Chemical (systems and whatnot you know). But we will let Deathklok go to the pornography awards.

  • TelekineticTelekinetic Registered User
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    blah blah blah

    And some poor sucker who did the work himself but wasn't a hot girl with a horny douche for a lab partner got knocked down to a C.

    There were 150+ people in that class, so I would have been having to help way more people than 2 to fuck up the curve.

    Also, hot lab partners > poor suckers.

    edit: Also also, I don't even think any of the grades were curved, so your arguement is double fail. I know I got my A on actual points only. A bunch of people bombed an exam or two, so he let us do a bonus online take home quiz and add those points....

  • Lord DaveLord Dave Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    blah blah blah

    And some poor sucker who did the work himself but wasn't a hot girl with a horny douche for a lab partner got knocked down to a C.

    There were 150+ people in that class, so I would have been having to help way more people than 2 to fuck up the curve.

    Also, hot lab partners > poor suckers.

    That is some good rationalization.

    Denny's is for winners.
    mkc.pngmkc.pngmkc.pngmontykevin.png
  • TelekineticTelekinetic Registered User
    edited June 2008
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    Lord Dave wrote: »
    blah blah blah

    And some poor sucker who did the work himself but wasn't a hot girl with a horny douche for a lab partner got knocked down to a C.

    There were 150+ people in that class, so I would have been having to help way more people than 2 to fuck up the curve.

    Also, hot lab partners > poor suckers.

    That is some good rationalization.

    Why thank you I thought so at the time

  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    This is our special way of telling you that you are a terrible faggot.
    At least I think it is.
    Just to take away all the ambiguity.

  • I Am Not A BearI Am Not A Bear Registered User
    edited June 2008
    Boo-hoo.

    If I'm in a class full of cheaters, I'm not taking the moral high ground and getting fucked over in the process. If you want to do that, that's your choice.

  • SASA Registered User
    edited June 2008
    I always had all the formulas programmed into my TI-86 calculator.

    Thats cheating I guess.

    WoW: Revash (Cho'Gall)
    3DS: 5241-1953-7031
  • TelekineticTelekinetic Registered User
    edited June 2008
    This is our special way of telling you that you are a terrible faggot.
    At least I think it is.
    Just to take away all the ambiguity.

    I reject your labeling of faggotry due to the fact that there was no curve. Test scores aren't a zero sum game, if they were I'd agree. In a class without a curve, it would be perfectly possible for everyone to get an A.

    And also, I posted that to help the OP be on the lookout, not brag.

    Did I mention the hot lab partners and I went out drinking afterwards?

    Hot lab partners who buy me drinks > poor suckers whose grades aren't hurt by the cheating anyways.

  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Well then if you're not a faggot I guess you just don't belong here.

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