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The American Presidency: This Thread Is 'Inartful'.

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Posts

  • DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Yeah uh if I can ask a stupid question, does McCain himself make the case that his military record directly qualifies him for the Presidency? I know I've heard him diss Obama about not being in the military on some policy point, but... does he actually go around saying this all the time?

    Have you seen any of his commercials?

    Obama mentions biographical stuff in his commercials too. Does the fact that he mentions he was raised by a single mom mean that qualified him to be President? You can call attention to character-shaping issues without making the case they directly qualify you.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Guys, guys, we've had this conversation with Deacon like 10 times now. Let's not do this again. He's content to view the world through his black republican eye-glasses, we're content to instead wear our more stylish liberal/Obamacan/Not republican glasses. Who knows which set of eye wear is the least distorting, allowing the wearer to see reality more clearly.

    Well, there's a big difference between the younger Shinra's two posts. The second contains some well thought out, specific critiques - if you think you can get away with "lol republicans think in black and white and hate muslims", think again.

    I honestly think you guys are torn over the Muslim hate thing. The smarter Republicans like Muslims because they make for easy scapegoating and fearmongering. The not so smart Republicans don't like Muslims because of scapegoating and fearmongering. I'll concede that there's a very small minority that are sensible and not trying to demonize Muslims.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Yeah uh if I can ask a stupid question, does McCain himself make the case that his military record directly qualifies him for the Presidency? I know I've heard him diss Obama about not being in the military on some policy point, but... does he actually go around saying this all the time?

    Have you seen any of his commercials?

    Obama mentions biographical stuff in his commercials too. Does the fact that he mentions he was raised by a single mom mean that qualified him to be President? You can call attention to character-shaping issues without making the case they directly qualify you.

    Considering the almost ridiculous deference given to military service in this country, the fact that almost every president in the last 100 years has been in the military at least once, and the fact that you can still find a decent number of people that think it should be a requirement for the presidency, I'm going to say that your Obama example isn't the same as the McCain example. There is clearly an implication of authority on military matters when you mention military service (and combat experience in particular) the way McCain does, whereas the mention of Obama's family is an implication that he's a regular guy.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    I honestly think you guys are torn over the Muslim hate thing. The smarter Republicans like Muslims because they make for easy scapegoating and fearmongering. The not so smart Republicans don't like Muslims because of scapegoating and fearmongering. I'll concede that there's a very small minority that are sensible and not trying to demonize Muslims.

    What specifically are you talking about.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Yeah uh if I can ask a stupid question, does McCain himself make the case that his military record directly qualifies him for the Presidency? I know I've heard him diss Obama about not being in the military on some policy point, but... does he actually go around saying this all the time?

    Have you seen any of his commercials?

    Obama mentions biographical stuff in his commercials too. Does the fact that he mentions he was raised by a single mom mean that qualified him to be President? You can call attention to character-shaping issues without making the case they directly qualify you.
    He comes close enough.

  • DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Considering the almost ridiculous deference given to military service in this country, the fact that almost every president in the last 100 years has been in the military at least once, and the fact that you can still find a decent number of people that think it should be a requirement for the presidency, I'm going to say that your Obama example isn't the same as the McCain example.

    So your problem is with widely-held public attitudes and beliefs rather than with McCain himself.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander, he's on the record saying that military service isn't a qualification for the Executive.

    So I'm not sure why the Clark thing is such a "a-HA! Take that!" moment.

    They agree.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander, he's on the record saying that military service isn't a qualification for the Executive.

    So I'm not sure why the Clark thing is such a "a-HA! Take that!" moment.

    They agree.
    So tell me, why is the McCain campaign raising such a fuss?

  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Zoolander, he's on the record saying that military service isn't a qualification for the Executive.

    So I'm not sure why the Clark thing is such a "a-HA! Take that!" moment.

    They agree.

    I agree that they agree. But I don't think Clark's comment is an "a-HA! Take That!" moment, I think its more of a "He can't SAY that!" moment.

  • SalSal Damnedest Little Fellow Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080702/ap_on_el_pr/ap_yahoo_poll_candidates_barbecue
    WASHINGTON - People would rather barbecue burgers with Barack Obama than with John McCain.

    ADVERTISEMENT

    While many are still deciding who should be president, by 52 percent to 45 percent they would prefer having Obama than McCain to their summer cookout, according to an Associated Press-Yahoo News poll released Wednesday.

    Men are about evenly divided between the two while women prefer Obama by 11 percentage points. Whites prefer McCain, minorities Obama. And Obama is a more popular guest with younger voters while McCain does best with the oldest.

    Having Obama to a barbecue would be like a relaxed family gathering, while inviting McCain "would be more like a retirement party than something fun," said Wesley Welbourne, 38, a systems engineer from Washington, D.C.

    Party label means a lot, with three-quarters of Democrats picking the Democrat Obama and the same number of Republicans picking McCain, a Republican. Independents are about evenly split.

    "John and I would probably have a lot to talk about," said Republican Michael Mullen, 53, of Merrimac, Mass., like McCain a Navy veteran.

    One in six people saying they'd vote for McCain prefer Obama as their barbecue guest; just one in 20 Obama backers would invite McCain.

    The AP-Yahoo News survey of 1,759 adults was conducted online by Knowledge Networks from June 13-23 and had an overall margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.3 percentage points. The margin of sampling error for subgroups was larger.

    Barbecuebility, guys!

  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Considering the almost ridiculous deference given to military service in this country, the fact that almost every president in the last 100 years has been in the military at least once, and the fact that you can still find a decent number of people that think it should be a requirement for the presidency, I'm going to say that your Obama example isn't the same as the McCain example.

    So your problem is with widely-held public attitudes and beliefs rather than with McCain himself.

    Partly. The other part of the problem is that the McCain campaign is bitch moaning, trying to make it seem like Gen. Clark's comments were out of bounds and that even asking a legitimate question about how his military experience relates to his ability to be president is "swift-boating". We can't fix the problems with public attitudes towards military service when McCain's getting in a hissy fit over this sort of thing.

    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    I guess that's my question Cauld.. he's not really saying that.
    So tell me, why is the McCain campaign raising such a fuss?

    I personally wouldn't have made such hay about it, but I guess on some level you have to respond if the issue or soundbyte sounds bad. Like, Obama had to respond to the Hussein thing because it sounded bad.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I guess that's my question Cauld.. he's not really saying that.


    I admit, I might not be the brightest, especially when it comes to politics, but all these pronouns are confusing me. Who's "he" now?

  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Cauld wrote: »
    I guess that's my question Cauld.. he's not really saying that.


    I admit, I might not be the brightest, especially when it comes to politics, but all these pronouns are confusing me. Who's "he" now?

    "I agree that they agree. But I don't think Clark's comment is an "a-HA! Take That!" moment, I think its more of a "He can't SAY that!" moment."

    I think.

  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I guess that's my question Cauld.. he's not really saying that.
    So tell me, why is the McCain campaign raising such a fuss?

    I personally wouldn't have made such hay about it, but I guess on some level you have to respond if the issue or soundbyte sounds bad. Like, Obama had to respond to the Hussein thing because it sounded bad.

    The McCain campaign is actually attacking Obama over this, though, saying that he has literally condoned smear attacks.

    That goes beyond responding out of obligation to attempting to make this the kind of issue that decides votes.

  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I guess that's my question Cauld.. he's not really saying that.
    So tell me, why is the McCain campaign raising such a fuss?

    I personally wouldn't have made such hay about it, but I guess on some level you have to respond if the issue or soundbyte sounds bad. Like, Obama had to respond to the Hussein thing because it sounded bad.

    Or because it feeds into a common misconception that he isnt a Christian.

    I'm not aware of any common misconception that McCain's service record is something he is trying to keep under wraps or should be ashamed of.

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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I don't know why I did it, but I checked out the Crosswalk forums regarding election stuff.

    I suggest you all don't make the same mistake.

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Yeah uh if I can ask a stupid question, does McCain himself make the case that his military record directly qualifies him for the Presidency? I know I've heard him diss Obama about not being in the military on some policy point, but... does he actually go around saying this all the time?

    Have you seen any of his commercials?

    Obama mentions biographical stuff in his commercials too. Does the fact that he mentions he was raised by a single mom mean that qualified him to be President? You can call attention to character-shaping issues without making the case they directly qualify you.

    Considering the almost ridiculous deference given to military service in this country, the fact that almost every president in the last 100 years has been in the military at least once, and the fact that you can still find a decent number of people that think it should be a requirement for the presidency, I'm going to say that your Obama example isn't the same as the McCain example. There is clearly an implication of authority on military matters when you mention military service (and combat experience in particular) the way McCain does, whereas the mention of Obama's family is an implication that he's a regular guy.

    That fact is much less interesting when you realize how many people served in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. Having a draft during a large war is going to result in a large percentage of the male population with military experience.

    We're finally getting far enough from the drafts that military background is actually becoming more rare. Carter, Reagan, and Clinton never served in the military. Before them, you have to go back to FDR (prior to WW2) to find a President who didn't wasn't under arms.

    Edit: My mistake; Carter and Reagan were in the military, but never saw combat (as is also true for Bush II).

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Gotta vote for Kathy again.
    Kansas pride yo.

    steam_sig.png
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    MKR wrote: »
    Cauld wrote: »
    I guess that's my question Cauld.. he's not really saying that.


    I admit, I might not be the brightest, especially when it comes to politics, but all these pronouns are confusing me. Who's "he" now?

    "I agree that they agree. But I don't think Clark's comment is an "a-HA! Take That!" moment, I think its more of a "He can't SAY that!" moment."

    I think.

    Lol. I'm not confused by my use of "he". I did mean Clark. I'm confused by Deacon's reply, which I bolded.

  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Trying to clear up confusion before noon was probably not the best of ideas.

  • DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS
    edited July 2008
    Haha sorry... I thought you meant McCain.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Haha sorry... I thought you meant McCain.

    Ahhh.... I feel better knowing that we were equally confused and that MKR actually helped to clear things up <img class=" title=":lol:" class="bbcode_smiley" />

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Okay, so I was running some errands and I had an unholy craving for McDonald's sausage biscuit, so I stopped in to clog my arteries while I waited for the bank to open up.

    There were two older men, probably 60 or so, sitting there gloating over getting articles published in local magazines. I ignored them for the most part, though the bit where they started talking about "Jewish words" irritated me. It's yiddish, you schmucks!

    Anyway, as I was finishing up, I heard this conversation:

    STATLER: So, are you going to the Republican convention?
    WALDORF: Oh, nah.
    S: You know, when Hillary dropped out, I donated to McCain.
    W: Yeah?
    S: Yeah, I thought about this Obama, and I just couldn't vote for him.
    W: He seems like a nice guy.
    S: That's just it, he seems like a nice guy, but nice guys finish last!
    W: Well, that's true.
    S: The Muslim thing doesn't help. What really killed him, though, was his wife. She's out there ranting about "whitey" and black liberation theology...

    At this point I'd had enough. The bank was open, I was finished with my second biscuit, I walked past them.

    DRAC: The "whitey" thing was a hoax.
    WALDORF: Oh, fuck it.
    STATLER: What did he just say?

    Then I left. I didn't have the time nor the inclination to straighten these two boomers out. The really offensive thing is that Statler had decided that Obama had already lost. I live in possibly the most pro-Obama neighborhood of the metro area outside of the universities, but still some boomers resist...

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Bitstream wrote: »
    [Edit] - I switched my vote from Richardson in the last round to Sebelius in this one. For some stupid reason I can't put my finger on, I reallly like Bill Richardson even though I disagree with him on several big points. I wish I knew what it was so I could purge it from my brain and embrace the cold unfeeling logic that tells me I agree with Sebelius more.
    The goatee. Mystery solved.

    It's an easy game to hate
  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Cauld wrote: »
    Zoolander, he's on the record saying that military service isn't a qualification for the Executive.

    So I'm not sure why the Clark thing is such a "a-HA! Take that!" moment.

    They agree.

    I agree that they agree. But I don't think Clark's comment is an "a-HA! Take That!" moment, I think its more of a "He can't SAY that!" moment.
    I wouldn't even go that far. It wasn't either of those - it was "What the hell is wrong with you, Scheiffer - why should being shot down be a boon for a presidential candidate?", and it was directed specifically at that dumb fucker giving the interview.

    It's an easy game to hate
  • TachTach Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Okay, so I was running some errands and I had an unholy craving for McDonald's sausage biscuit, so I stopped in to clog my arteries while I waited for the bank to open up.

    There were two older men, probably 60 or so, sitting there gloating over getting articles published in local magazines. I ignored them for the most part, though the bit where they started talking about "Jewish words" irritated me. It's yiddish, you schmucks!

    Anyway, as I was finishing up, I heard this conversation:

    STATLER: So, are you going to the Republican convention?
    WALDORF: Oh, nah.
    S: You know, when Hillary dropped out, I donated to McCain.
    W: Yeah?
    S: Yeah, I thought about this Obama, and I just couldn't vote for him.
    W: He seems like a nice guy.
    S: That's just it, he seems like a nice guy, but nice guys finish last!
    W: Well, that's true.
    S: The Muslim thing doesn't help. What really killed him, though, was his wife. She's out there ranting about "whitey" and black liberation theology...

    At this point I'd had enough. The bank was open, I was finished with my second biscuit, I walked past them.

    DRAC: The "whitey" thing was a hoax.
    WALDORF: Oh, fuck it.
    STATLER: What did he just say?

    Then I left. I didn't have the time nor the inclination to straighten these two boomers out. The really offensive thing is that Statler had decided that Obama had already lost. I live in possibly the most pro-Obama neighborhood of the metro area outside of the universities, but still some boomers resist...

    Statler_Waldorf.jpg

    "Y'know, I hear this is campaign is a really moving experience."
    "Yeah, I wish they'd move it to Pittsburg."
    "OH Hohohohohohohohoho!"

    BNsig.jpg
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I guess that's my question Cauld.. he's not really saying that.
    So tell me, why is the McCain campaign raising such a fuss?

    I personally wouldn't have made such hay about it, but I guess on some level you have to respond if the issue or soundbyte sounds bad. Like, Obama had to respond to the Hussein thing because it sounded bad.

    McCain says it doesn't qualify him to be president.

    Clark says it doesn't qualify him to be president.

    McCain spends now his fourth day running calling Clark out for smearing his military record.

    There's responding, and there's deliberately trying to create a campaign killing mistake out of thin air.

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Tach wrote: »

    Statler_Waldorf.jpg

    "Y'know, I hear this is campaign is a really moving experience."
    "Yeah, I wish they'd move it to Pittsburg."
    "OH Hohohohohohohohoho!"

    Essentially, yes.<img class=" title=":lol:" class="bbcode_smiley" />

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Wow that McCain = Leonidas thing was really dumb.
    I dunno, maybe it's just because I didn't like 300 that much.

    steam_sig.png
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2008
    wwtMask wrote: »
    5) McCainophiles are really scared of people getting the main idea of Clark's statement in their heads.

    On NRO there are something like 13 hojillion references to Clark's comment, but - curiously - not a single posting of, or link to, the actual transcript. Funny, that. Also curious, my emails to three separate people pointing out the context have been completely ignored. Must've been eaten by their spam filters or something.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

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  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2008
    Wow that McCain = Leonidas thing was really dumb.
    I dunno, maybe it's just because I didn't like 300 that much.

    Green screen challenge?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Wow that McCain = Leonidas thing was really dumb.
    I dunno, maybe it's just because I didn't like 300 that much.

    McCain is about to be slaughtered by an overwhelmingly large number of people after several Pyrrhic victories delaying the inevitable?

    tea-1.jpg
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited July 2008
    Wow that McCain = Leonidas thing was really dumb.
    I dunno, maybe it's just because I didn't like 300 that much.

    I thought 300 was fantastic. That article was still fucking stupid.

    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • ElkiElki hegemon globalSuper Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2008
  • ElkiElki hegemon globalSuper Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited July 2008
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Wow that McCain = Leonidas thing was really dumb.
    I dunno, maybe it's just because I didn't like 300 that much.

    McCain is about to be slaughtered by an overwhelmingly large number of people after several Pyrrhic victories delaying the inevitable?

    He also likes to kill babies because they aren't up to his standards. I don't think the gays love McCain though. Now young McCain. :winky:

  • ZephyrZephyr Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Raiden333 wrote: »

    oh man i hope someone asks him again and he just freaks the fuck out and starts yelling and swearing

    16kakxt.jpg
This discussion has been closed.