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[D&D 4e Discussion] Jim thinks this thread title shouldn't change so often

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Posts

  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Spoiler:

    I would only do that if they are level two by the time they get there.
    Spoiler:

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  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    delroland wrote: »
    Here's another rules question for y'all:

    Rogue sneak attack: when the rules state the damage only applies once per round, does that apply to the entirety of the attack? For example, Blinding Strike attacks all enemies in a Close Burst 3. Does the sneak attack damage apply to every target or just to one?

    What about a rogue/ranger with one of the ranger melee powers that allows an attack with each hand? Would the sneak attack damage apply to both attacks with the power or just to one? What if both attacks were on the same target? What if they were on different targets?

    Similarly:

    Warlock curse says 'whenever you deal damage'

    Ongoing damage adds curse damage per every tick?

  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Warlock curse says 'whenever you deal damage'

    Ongoing damage adds curse damage per every tick?

    I would rule that as only damage directly done by you. IMO, ongoing damage wouldn't count. Definitely could be ruled either way, though.

    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    RAW I read it as triggering on ongoing damage, but that seems really potent. I wonder if this has been answered anywhere official.

  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Depends on whether you interpret ongoing damage as being from the warlock or not. I would lean towards not; a rogue, for example, wouldn't get sneak attack damage from the wounding effect of his higher level powers, even if he still had combat advantage and was doing no other sneak attack damage in the round.

    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • YesNoMuYesNoMu Registered User
    edited July 2008
    As far as I know, all three extra damage striker thingies can only be used on one target, once per round. I would probably rule no on ongoing damage triggering it, but I'm AFB right now.

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  • InfidelInfidel It's not Infidel, it's INNNNNFIDELRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I recall there being rules, not sure when they came up (specific uses, or outright said in general), that ongoing damage doesn't get increased by bonuses usually.

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  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    You could always be really picky with the words and say that, no, it doesn't apply because at that point the move is doing the damage due to its periodic effect and the warlock is no longer doing damage itself, thus no bonus curse damage.

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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Quick question:
    Can someone point me to where I can find the rules for re-training in either the PHB or DMG please?

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  • TechnicalityTechnicality Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Quick question:
    Can someone point me to where I can find the rules for re-training in either the PHB or DMG please?
    Page 28 of the PHB.

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  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Totes not mafia, guys Oh shit, an awlRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Quick question:
    Can someone point me to where I can find the rules for re-training in either the PHB or DMG please?
    Page 28 of the PHB.
    Incidentally, I really love the concept of retraining. Didn't get the kind of mileage out of a power, skill or feat that you were hoping for? Trade it in for something else!

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    delroland wrote: »
    Here's another rules question for y'all:

    Rogue sneak attack: when the rules state the damage only applies once per round, does that apply to the entirety of the attack? For example, Blinding Strike attacks all enemies in a Close Burst 3. Does the sneak attack damage apply to every target or just to one?

    Is there more than one enemy in the Blinding Strike Area? If no, then it applies to all enemies in a Close Burst 3. If yes, the it only applies to one enemy.

    You get to choose which creature to apply damage too after damage has been rolled.
    What about a rogue/ranger with one of the ranger melee powers that allows an attack with each hand? Would the sneak attack damage apply to both attacks with the power or just to one? What if both attacks were on the same target? What if they were on different targets?

    You get sneak attack/Hunters Quarry/Warlocks Curse once/round period. Which attack that damage is applied to and which enemy its applied to is your choice. Such you can choose to not sneak attack/quarry/curse minions and save the damage for something else.

    They all work the same way, you get the damage once/turn(new errata says it recharges at the start of your turn), and you can only apply that damage to one enemy.

  • brentoddbrentodd Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Infidel wrote: »
    I recall there being rules, not sure when they came up (specific uses, or outright said in general), that ongoing damage doesn't get increased by bonuses usually.

    This is correct - I was just reading it yesterday.

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Quick question:
    Can someone point me to where I can find the rules for re-training in either the PHB or DMG please?
    Page 28 of the PHB.
    Thanks.

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  • fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    From the errata:
    Warlock’s Curse [Revision/Addition]
    Player’s Handbook, page 131
    Replace the third sentence of the first paragraph with the following: “If you hit a
    cursed enemy with an attack, you deal extra damage.”
    Add the following clause to the end of the last sentence of the first paragraph: “so
    if you have dealt Warlock’s Curse damage since the start of your turn, you
    cannot deal it again until the start of your next turn.”




    Also:
    In retrospect, the podcast group's lack of a striker definitely shows when you think about the tactical situations they are finding themselves in. Even if they were hitting, they were kindof all over the place.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Nevermind, I sorted that.
    Seriously though, this is a solid idea. Just replace the word "magic" with "mastercrafted" and you've just maintained your low-magic setting while still giving your PCs the edge they need to survive.

    The problem is it still ends up being the same thing and players rapidly pick up on things like this. There is very little, if any difference in 4th edition, between "master crafted +1" and "magical +1". In fact, in 4th edition that is meaningless, they are the same concept. There are no enemies specifically immune to non-magical items anymore in 4th edition (actually this is a huge improvement IMO) and there is actually not very many creatures vulnerable specifically to X (except undead and creatures like dryads that hate fire etc). In general, a masterwork weapon +1 is identical to a magical item +1, to the point where you're not changing anything. There is no mechanical effect except saying "this isn't magical, it just does what every single other magical weapon does". My players, predictably, did not buy the argument (not to mention due to materials shortages such weapons would also be rare) and I decided to just make very clever in game justifications for why people had X item to give my players.

    I've kept up with the treasure tables (even at level 3, players without their magical items start to be really pressed in combat, they are a huge part of characters balancing in 4th, so much as I completely underestimated the effect until I tried it) and thus far everything makes sense. It's still low magic, but all of the items the players have are hard earned and still satisfying to find.

    If I had to re-write my campaign, I would make the time difference some 300 years and apply Dark Sun like natural selection to the characters (I have a mere 40 years, not quite enough time). So that they would gain more frequent stat boosts to compensate instead.

  • DortmunderDortmunder Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I've kept up with the treasure tables (even at level 3, players without their magical items start to be really pressed in combat, they are a huge part of characters balancing in 4th, so much as I completely underestimated the effect until I tried it) and thus far everything makes sense. It's still low magic, but all of the items the players have are hard earned and still satisfying to find.

    Maybe give them magic items a couple levels higher than they should receive to help carry them through the dry spells? Just tossing about ideas.


    Funny side note. The Loudwater preview on wizards.com has the same printer's marks as the leaked PDFs had...er...or so I'm told. :whistle:

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Dortmunder wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I've kept up with the treasure tables (even at level 3, players without their magical items start to be really pressed in combat, they are a huge part of characters balancing in 4th, so much as I completely underestimated the effect until I tried it) and thus far everything makes sense. It's still low magic, but all of the items the players have are hard earned and still satisfying to find.

    Maybe give them magic items a couple levels higher than they should receive to help carry them through the dry spells? Just tossing about ideas.


    Funny side note. The Loudwater preview on wizards.com has the same printer's marks as the leaked PDFs had...er...or so I'm told. :whistle:

    Doesn't work terribly well and I think it might have the opposite effect. Minding, at level 1 they are expected to have at least one level 5 item, so it might not be too much of a stretch to throw a level 7 or 6 item in there.

  • DortmunderDortmunder Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Another option is to have magic items that are "bound" to the character's spirit, and grow in strength along with them. That way they stay up-to-date on power, without introducing new magic items.

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  • Peg leg PetePeg leg Pete Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Dortmunder wrote: »
    Another option is to have magic items that are "bound" to the character's spirit, and grow in strength along with them. That way they stay up-to-date on power, without introducing new magic items.

    this is actually a favorite concept of mine. it makes the characters feel more attached to their gear, so that it's not just "hey, i got a new sword, time to pawn the old one!"

    i used to great effect in an L5R game: the characters all had magic items that they later found out were part of a set, the stronger the party got, and the more items from the set they found, the stronger their items got. it was a party of 5, and there were a total of like 10 or 15 items...it became a major quest to get the whole set.

    hell, finding out how many items were in the set in the first place was a major milestone...

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    You could also give boosts to character powers as well. For example, a critical hit does an extra half weapon damage for every 5 levels a character grows.

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  • Peg leg PetePeg leg Pete Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Dortmunder wrote: »
    Another option is to have magic items that are "bound" to the character's spirit, and grow in strength along with them. That way they stay up-to-date on power, without introducing new magic items.

    this is actually a favorite concept of mine. it makes the characters feel more attached to their gear, so that it's not just "hey, i got a new sword, time to pawn the old one!"

    i used to great effect in an L5R game: the characters all had magic items that they later found out were part of a set, the stronger the party got, and the more items from the set they found, the stronger their items got. it was a party of 5, and there were a total of like 10 or 15 items, and two or three magic items a piece isn't too bad...it became a major quest to get the whole set.

    hell, finding out how many items were in the set in the first place was a major milestone...

  • dscrilladscrilla Registered User
    edited July 2008
    I like that idea, its a good way to avoid the magicmart syndrome. Your PC's power stays in line, but they don't drown in items. The set concept is even better, I bet it really motivated the group.

    I am so stealing this:mrgreen:

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I keep having the image of taking a new item you have found, -melting it down-, and dipping your weapon in it, letting it absorb it.

    Double extra points if the captured weapons are intelligent. :twisted:

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    I keep having the image of taking a new item you have found, -melting it down-, and dipping your weapon in it, letting it absorb it.

    Double extra points if the captured weapons are intelligent. :twisted:

    There can be only one. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  • MalyonsusMalyonsus Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    I clicked on my iTunes podcast thing on a lark and the new DnD podcast is up.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Concerning the PA podcasts: You know, if I were the DM I'd say that the enemies would be so amused at this point that they'd laugh themselves into a coma.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Concerning the PA podcasts: You know, if I were the DM I'd say that the enemies would be so amused at this point that they'd laugh themselves into a coma.

    The whole 50% miss chance thing is pretty nasty before players start figuring out how to boost their chances. :P

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Terrendos wrote: »
    You could also give boosts to character powers as well. For example, a critical hit does an extra half weapon damage for every 5 levels a character grows.

    Re-writing the system, when I don't know the effects of said re-writing is really bad. I must immediately concede, my first mistake was writing a low magic setting when I didn't understand how integral magic items were to characters in 4th compared to 3rd.

  • MaticoreMaticore Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    You could also give boosts to character powers as well. For example, a critical hit does an extra half weapon damage for every 5 levels a character grows.

    Re-writing the system, when I don't know the effects of said re-writing is really bad. I must immediately concede, my first mistake was writing a low magic setting when I didn't understand how integral magic items were to characters in 4th compared to 3rd.

    Not saying we tried to tell you, but.

    We did.

    OTOH, from what you've been saying about your game, it seems to be going pretty well. Which speaks to the quality of the players and the dedication of the DM.

  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    You could also give boosts to character powers as well. For example, a critical hit does an extra half weapon damage for every 5 levels a character grows.

    Re-writing the system, when I don't know the effects of said re-writing is really bad. I must immediately concede, my first mistake was writing a low magic setting when I didn't understand how integral magic items were to characters in 4th compared to 3rd.

    This would be about in-line with magic weapons like Flaming Weapon, which on criticals do an extra 1d6 damage per plus, and since there's 6 levels of those, one at every 5 levels... obviously it's not perfect, but it's close.

    Alternately, you could just have some sort of massive catastrophic event after which magic becomes commonplace.

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  • PlutoniumPlutonium Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Final podcast just went up.

    "No mom, it's Kalarel"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    By the by (and if this was already posted, I am sorry), the latest DMG errata/update pretty much completely reworks the numbers on Skill Challenges.

    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    delroland wrote: »
    By the by (and if this was already posted, I am sorry), the latest DMG errata/update pretty much completely reworks the numbers on Skill Challenges.

    Yep, I had some rough calculations (just got home and saw it) and they seem to have greatly improved it.

    Just in time for me to test it tomorrow!

    Edit: Wow, this is really different.

  • ChtulieChtulie Registered User
    edited July 2008
    delroland wrote: »
    By the by (and if this was already posted, I am sorry), the latest DMG errata/update pretty much completely reworks the numbers on Skill Challenges.

    So much so that the errate can be a bit tricky. To the point where I'd wish they'd also do an article on it or something that would just replace the DMG section entirely rather then having to puzzle it out with the errate in one hand and the book in another (I'm totally not ok with writing them into my books).

  • Peg leg PetePeg leg Pete Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Dortmunder wrote: »
    Another option is to have magic items that are "bound" to the character's spirit, and grow in strength along with them. That way they stay up-to-date on power, without introducing new magic items.

    this is actually a favorite concept of mine. it makes the characters feel more attached to their gear, so that it's not just "hey, i got a new sword, time to pawn the old one!"

    i used to great effect in an L5R game: the characters all had magic items that they later found out were part of a set, the stronger the party got, and the more items from the set they found, the stronger their items got. it was a party of 5, and there were a total of like 10 or 15 items, and two or three magic items a piece isn't too bad...it became a major quest to get the whole set.

    hell, finding out how many items were in the set in the first place was a major milestone...
    feel free, i stole it myself from an interview i read once!

  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Totes not mafia, guys Oh shit, an awlRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Chtulie wrote: »
    delroland wrote: »
    By the by (and if this was already posted, I am sorry), the latest DMG errata/update pretty much completely reworks the numbers on Skill Challenges.

    So much so that the errate can be a bit tricky. To the point where I'd wish they'd also do an article on it or something that would just replace the DMG section entirely rather then having to puzzle it out with the errate in one hand and the book in another (I'm totally not ok with writing them into my books).
    Any got a link? I'm at work and so not at liberty to poke around looking for it.

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  • ChtulieChtulie Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Dortmunder wrote: »
    Another option is to have magic items that are "bound" to the character's spirit, and grow in strength along with them. That way they stay up-to-date on power, without introducing new magic items.

    this is actually a favorite concept of mine. it makes the characters feel more attached to their gear, so that it's not just "hey, i got a new sword, time to pawn the old one!"

    i used to great effect in an L5R game: the characters all had magic items that they later found out were part of a set, the stronger the party got, and the more items from the set they found, the stronger their items got. it was a party of 5, and there were a total of like 10 or 15 items, and two or three magic items a piece isn't too bad...it became a major quest to get the whole set.

    hell, finding out how many items were in the set in the first place was a major milestone...
    feel free, i stole it myself from an interview i read once!

    Not the same, quite the reverse actually in that players can be totally smitten with a regular weapon or item if it has a name and a history and have on occasion past on more powerful but unnamed versions in favour of their current one.

  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User
    edited July 2008
    Plutonium wrote: »
    Final podcast just went up.

    "No mom, it's Kalarel"

    I loved all 8 episodes and now I'm very sad that there will be no more. Oh well, I'm very glad I got to enjoy them.

    Wii Code: 6596 9931 4190 2980
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