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Old games: Are they shit?
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2. To say what came before today is shit is partly right because civilization is about improving on the current situation but it is also a failure to acknowledge that what we have today is because of what we had yesterday. The games of today are decended from the games yesterday - accept it or understand now that you're already having your mid-life crisis now - and if you're under 40 then you're fucked.
3. Take into consideration TODAYS technology and the emphasis that games place on it. A game with minimalist but effective graphics and a storyline that evolves will always beat a the most advanced graphic orientated game that bypasses narrative. In short - old games had to have a proper storyline because they couldn't fall back on the images. As graphics developed in quality, narrative declined.
Nuff said
The princess is in another castle.
holy fuck.
Not in all cases, but I do notice that present games tend to focus more on marrying the story with the graphics then just to have a super awesome story that would stand on its own two feet even if the graphics sucked. But I guess that is a natural progression.
Everyone's different, though, which is why I think this thread's premise is silly. I don't find old games fun, but plenty of people do.
But perhaps that means old games were less developed by not marrying the story with the graphics.
How many old games can you name that have a super awesome story that stands on its own two feet? Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Megaman, Pacman, Asteroids, Pitfall?
If you want to take this to an extreme, to the text adventure, the original Adventure and Zork have no good narrative or story, the entire gimmick at the time was simply interaction. In contrast, modern text adventures do have super awesome stories that stand on their own two feet - see the likes of Anchorhead, Spider and Web, Shade, etc.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
Is that considered ancient history now? Secret of MI is old, if anything.
But these Monkey Island games have too many graphics! Why can't they have a good story that stands on its own, rather than having all these graphics to get in the way!
Actually I think it's more about the writing in MI than the story, per se. You don't often find writing that good in most media.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
You're doing it wrong.
I dont know whether you are being serious here but neither Mario, Zelda Metroid, Megaman, Pacman asteroids nor pitfall had anything but an awful story.
Curse of Monkey Island has very nice cartoon graphics though.
And the writing is in fact very good.
Purists don't call that a good story. Maybe some literature majors would spend hours examining the social and cultural implications of what is considered our penultimate good vs. evil, save-the-princess classic story, but nobody plays Mario for the story. Unless it's Mario RPG.
I know dude, I don't know whether you are being serious here but I was listing off games that one might classify as old and questioning whether he would consider those good.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
Yes... I think I am.
So, to be more clear. What older (pre 3d, I guess) games do people say had really good stories? I could see it for several RPGs but for typical action/2d platforming/shoot 'em ups... anything like that... I honestly can't think of one game that has an enthralling story that 'stands on its own and doesn't use graphics to cheapen its message' or some such sacrosanct shit.
Damnit, I care about Croc!
Like the first game I ever bought with my own money. I still remember accidentally stumbling upon the code to unlock one of the hidden levels.
And the story! One of the finest stories to ever grace gaming. A classic fish out of water tale of a big lovable crocodile in a gobbo's world.
SOMEONE MAKE ME A SEQUEL!
Edit: So as to be slightly on topic, I believe that as technology gets better, the number of still-entertaining games will increase, simply because gaming has had such a rapid advancement that classics were not really given all that much time to germinate.
Potentially older than that if you're pedantic about it.
Then System Shock, the Ultima Underworld Games and Ultima 7 all pop up immediately, I believe.
Get some good ole' adventure games in you boy.
Dangnabbit.
Edit: Like, the longest journey, monkey island, grim fandango, etc, etc.
The point is that games which aren't driven by narrative have, generally speaking, better written and more comprehensive narrative now than they used to, and also genres which are not, gameplay-wise, driven by narrative are incorporating narrative in new and innovative ways (eg Half-Life). Furthermore, there's an expectation of narrative beyond simply "save the Princess".
Obviously there are examples of older games where narrative was well developed, but the typical level was much lower (as was true of all production values).
We were just talking about some: all the Monkey Island games.
Look at these shitty graphics! This game must totally suck!
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
EDIT: UncleSporky I never said shitty graphics make a shitty game.
Of course not, and I never said you said that either.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
AJ2 soundtrack: NAME YOUR PRICE ON BANDCAMP! Album: BANDCAMP! iTunes Spotify Amazon UK
That's cool.
My son's first gaming was done on a Sega Master System. I figured if I was going to allow him to play some games, I'd start him off there. That's was a few years back. He's a few years younger than you but now has similarly broad tastes. He thinks Sonic the Hedgehog and Super Mario Bros. are just as awesome as Star Wars Battelfront or whatever other recent game he's playing. His concern is fun, not impressive graphics. I like to think I was a part of that.
(His favorite band is also the Beatles, he likes jazz, and he reads books on the Civil War. So that's neat.)
Are you being sarcastic? Because uh, there was.
What if everyone there's a 3D artist and they pull some out for story writing?
Depends if they're good writers.
AJ2 soundtrack: NAME YOUR PRICE ON BANDCAMP! Album: BANDCAMP! iTunes Spotify Amazon UK
Those two games aren't the same genre. Obviously I don't apply the same standards to platformers as sports games. Sorry if I was unclear.
Are you kidding? Grim Fandango rapes the shit out of current 'narrative-based' games like Mass Effect or KOTOR.
There are obviously lots of examples of adventure games that were narrative driven which had truly excellent stories and writing.
Games that aren't narrative driven, in general, I would suppose are getting more "narrative" than they used to be. But that doesn't necessarily make them better games, since it's only one factor. Likewise, a lack of a story doesn't necessarily make an older game less fun.
That said, I just wanted to reply because there are older action games and platformers with stories that were done at least fairly well.
Ninja Gaiden Trilogy comes to mind.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
But story is only one facet of a game that might draw you to play it. Many older games, and newer games alike, the main draw is the gameplay. If it's fun to play, that is what is important.
One may think that the story of "Princess kidnapped, go save her" is a simplistic story, because it is. But people that enjoy games such as Super Mario Bros. aren't playing it for the story. They're playing it because it's a fun, excellent platforming action game.
To say that, "I don't get old games - most of their stories are crap and/or simple. Why would I want to go back to that compared to now?" Is basically questioning all genres of games, and in fact all games, for which story isn't supposed to be the primary draw. I would still certainly play Super Mario Galaxy today despite its simplistic story, because it's an extremely fun platforming / action game.
There are still tons of games out today that are not story-driven. Yes, many of them have "plots," but ultimately most of these games have really forgettable or lame plots anyway. Not unlike the plot of Super Mario Bros, except now, these "plots" or stories are often told with cutscenes or FMV. If I'm going to play some of these games, it's going to be for the fun of the gameplay, not because of their forgettable stories.
To say it conversely, it would be like asking - "Why would I want to play this RPG? It's gameplay is so slow, there's hardly any real action, most stuff is done by menus, and there is just tons of text that gets in the way of what little gameplay there actually is." That sounds just as bad, to me, because it's only focusing on one factor.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Man you must search the forums for the string "text adventures" every day because last page was the first time I have mentioned them in like a year.
Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
I don't care for croc, but kid Chameleon is one of my Genesis favorites, and I fuckin love Genesis.
As said above, Genesis (AKA master System) kicks copious ass. I know I'd start my kid off on something similar (probably SNES or Genesis). And yeah, being a long-time game player (I don't like to call myself a gamer because that implies all I do is play games, which only take up about 6 hours of my time per week on average (though internet usage is a big timewaster)), I do think fun is an important part of games, but I also do think that better graphics and computing capability in both 3-d and 2-d planes allow for deeper mechanics. This is why I don't like most early 3-d games, because most just haven't aged well.
And Beatles are one of the best, jazz is the best genre that I don't frequently listen to, and I think the Civil War gets written about too much, but there are some excellent books about it out there.