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American Presidency: Still nice

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Posts

  • DelzhandDelzhand motivated battle programmerRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Delzhand wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Narian wrote: »
    Litejedi wrote: »
    As far as I can tell, the pro-Corporate rhetoric hasn't done a whole lot for the prosperity of America so far.

    You have a very prosperous failing economy.

    Really? I hate to break it to you, but despite the recent troubles, America is still the most prosperous country in the world....

    I think it would be more accurate to say we have the highest standard of living in the world.

    Highest infant mortality rate.

    Highest incarceration rate.

    One of the highest obesity rates.

    Once again.. pretty much a subjective argument for how you define "prosperity" or the like. This isn't Zimbabwe.. but we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking we're a stones throw from Utopia here.

    No, but it how many nations is it possible to buy a 72 inch plasma TV on a credit card when you're 22 and in college? There are more examples I can make, but I've got to run across campus. That's just the first one that comes to mind.

    jk0Btsj.png
  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »

    i really doubt its 90%.... maybe something like 60%.

    if you have any actual data on people who use computers as part of their daily lives thatd be nice.

    http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/computer.html

    Most recent solid information I could find was from 2003 for people who had a computer in their homes. It was 62%, up from 56% in 2001. Pretty decent jump, and it 5 years, it has surely climbed further.

    Also, since it's just people who OWN a computer, that doesn't really calculate people who might use one often at work, but not have one in the household.



    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0921872.html has some numbers in the lower 70 percentile, but I haven't actually verified anything there. Still, that info was also from 4 years ago, so take that as you will.

    ok cool, im not gonna debate but just know that having a computer in your house doesnt mean you use it. in a family of mom/dad/13 year old son with 1 computer who is most likely using it?

    still 60% "feels" right to me.

    Haha yeah ok.

    Pokemon Black FC: 0518-7386-3511
    Pokemon Black 2: 0519-5108-3139
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this

    sig.png
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Tach wrote: »
    Continuing to point out how Obama isn't living up to an arbitrary standard that we feel doesn't exist is more tilting at windmills than effective argument.

    Simply because you don't feel they exist doesn't invalidate the argument.

    If you thought all the criticism of Obama was valid, then I highly doubt you'd be supporting him.

    But you're doing exactly what I'm talking about.

    You don't agree with me. Therefore, my argument must be invalid.

    Proud member of Unrepentant Gaming! Pantless gaming at its finest.
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  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    ironzerg wrote: »

    You don't agree with me. Therefore, my argument must be invalid.

    Presumably the reason he doesn't agree with you is because your argument is invalid?

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    And then we wind up in the retarded, "Well, Obama said he'd be a new kind of politician, so that makes every transgression of his a hundred times worse, and since McCain only has 50 times as many transgressions, Obama is actually twice is bad" zone and we bicker for awhile before something shiny distracts us.

    Comparisons aside, isn't pointing out ways in which Obama is "buisness as usual" a valid tactic? You yourself admitted that part of his draw was the ability to somehow fundamentally change things.

    I'm willfully going to ignore this because it's well-trodden ground and because I want to get off this topic. No offense.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this
    Wait, were you a former Republican? And are you leaning towards Obama now?

    Do ... I owe you cookies?

  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Narian wrote: »
    Litejedi wrote: »
    As far as I can tell, the pro-Corporate rhetoric hasn't done a whole lot for the prosperity of America so far.

    You have a very prosperous failing economy.

    Really? I hate to break it to you, but despite the recent troubles, America is still the most prosperous country in the world....

    I think it would be more accurate to say we have the highest standard of living in the world.

    Highest infant mortality rate.

    Highest incarceration rate.

    One of the highest obesity rates.

    Once again.. pretty much a subjective argument for how you define "prosperity" or the like. This isn't Zimbabwe.. but we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking we're a stones throw from Utopia here.

    No, but it how many nations is it possible to buy a 72 inch plasma TV on a credit card when you're 22 and in college? There are more examples I can make, but I've got to run across campus. That's just the first one that comes to mind.

    ...

    ..............

    "Man, I know babies are dying and shitloads of people are in prison, but have you seen my new TV?"

    Edit: As a side note, I'm starting to see the realism in Dwarf Fortress where no matter what kind of chaos, death, and pestilence is going on in daily dwarf life, they're content because they get to eat (their meals of raw mushrooms and cooked vermin) in an awesome dining room.

    camo_sig2.png
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    ironzerg wrote: »

    You don't agree with me. Therefore, my argument must be invalid.

    Presumably the reason he doesn't agree with you is because your argument is invalid?

    presumably you should be able to disagree on moral issues without necissarily having to disagree on say economic issues.

    most of the time disagreements polarize people against each other.

  • JebuJebu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this

    I have a couple pub friends who were unenthusiastic about McCain but love Palin. I really don't get it.

  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Jebu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this

    I have a couple pub friends who were unenthusiastic about McCain but love Palin. I really don't get it.
    Evangelical social conservatives? Fair assumption.

    It's an easy game to hate
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2008
    NRO, who was previously crowing about poll numbers ad nauseum a week ago (including suggesting that New York would be in play), has pretty much stopped acknowledging that polls exist.

    This makes me smile.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Qingu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this
    Wait, were you a former Republican? And are you leaning towards Obama now?

    Do ... I owe you cookies?

    He and Jeffe were for a long time holding down the fort as the conservatives you could argue with and get coherent points from around here. Though as Speaker pointed out they were accused of trolling in their time.

    And yes, you owe him cookies, I think he made a post expecting them a few days ago.

    Meanwhile, in hilarious news, George "Macaca" Allen is the featured speaker at a GOP minority outreach rally.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    She is the future of the Republican party. All the stuff we think is crazy? That's the society they want to build.

    EDIT: I love the "Republican convert" phenomena, especially when I see it on the internet. Pretty much any old-style conservatives are defecting or at least sitting at home in the dark crying en masse, because the Republicans don't represent them at all anymore, and the Democrats are not much better from many classical conservative viewpoints. It really makes me happy to see that people do, in fact, change their minds on this stuff by reason and observation.

  • JebuJebu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Jebu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this

    I have a couple pub friends who were unenthusiastic about McCain but love Palin. I really don't get it.
    Evangelical social conservatives? Fair assumption.

    One is an atheist Jew and the other is an orthodox Christian bartender.

    :|

  • DagrabbitDagrabbit Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    NRO, who was previously crowing about poll numbers ad nauseum a week ago (including suggesting that New York would be in play), has pretty much stopped acknowledging that polls exist.

    This makes me smile.

    Are you smiling McCain style?

  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Qingu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this
    Wait, were you a former Republican? And are you leaning towards Obama now?

    Do ... I owe you cookies?

    I also specifically stated that you owe me cookies

    Granted I'm in Mississippi so it probably won't matter but, you know, cookies.

    sig.png
  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    NRO, who was previously crowing about poll numbers ad nauseum a week ago (including suggesting that New York would be in play), has pretty much stopped acknowledging that polls exist.

    This makes me smile.

    Let's be honest Jeffe, we've all done the same, but reverse.

    steam_sig.png
  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »

    i really doubt its 90%.... maybe something like 60%.

    if you have any actual data on people who use computers as part of their daily lives thatd be nice.

    http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/computer.html

    Most recent solid information I could find was from 2003 for people who had a computer in their homes. It was 62%, up from 56% in 2001. Pretty decent jump, and it 5 years, it has surely climbed further.

    Also, since it's just people who OWN a computer, that doesn't really calculate people who might use one often at work, but not have one in the household.



    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0921872.html has some numbers in the lower 70 percentile, but I haven't actually verified anything there. Still, that info was also from 4 years ago, so take that as you will.

    ok cool, im not gonna debate but just know that having a computer in your house doesnt mean you use it. in a family of mom/dad/13 year old son with 1 computer who is most likely using it?

    still 60% "feels" right to me.

    Haha yeah ok.

    Actually, gonna go ahead and flesh that out a bit more. That 13 year old applied to that census question... Yeah, he's 18 now. I can assure that he will still use computers even though he is an adult now. The children he has will have computers integrated further into their lives.

    Pokemon Black FC: 0518-7386-3511
    Pokemon Black 2: 0519-5108-3139
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Cauld wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Narian wrote: »
    Litejedi wrote: »
    As far as I can tell, the pro-Corporate rhetoric hasn't done a whole lot for the prosperity of America so far.

    You have a very prosperous failing economy.

    Really? I hate to break it to you, but despite the recent troubles, America is still the most prosperous country in the world....

    I think it would be more accurate to say we have the highest standard of living in the world.

    Highest infant mortality rate.

    Highest incarceration rate.

    One of the highest obesity rates.

    Once again.. pretty much a subjective argument for how you define "prosperity" or the like. This isn't Zimbabwe.. but we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking we're a stones throw from Utopia here.

    Oh please, we don't have the highest Infant Mortality rate, I'd be surprised if we weren't in the top 20 (top being better). Also, we're definitely the most prosperous if your measure is straight GDP, if you go with GDP per capita, then we're really not.

    Not really that helpful considering we're the 3rd largest country (in terms of population) and by far the largest developed country. The EU in total has a comparable GDP and population size.

    Otherwise, I don't know that you could say the USA is definitely the "most prosperous" country (at least in terms of the effect on people.) In GDP per capita we are up in the top 5 when you discount oil-rich countries that have huge wealth disparities. But in terms of quality of life and standard of living we are usually below most of Western Europe in those rankings.

    steam_sig.png
  • DelzhandDelzhand motivated battle programmerRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    God I hope no one quoted me yet.

    Edit: Thank god. This is what happens when I post in anger.

    jk0Btsj.png
  • SalSal Damnedest Little Fellow Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Stop posting so fast! This thread is out of control!

    In other news, McCain is a dick.
    By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
    2 hours, 56 minutes ago



    CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa - Top aides to Republian John McCain are claiming Democrat Barack Obama and his advisers are exploiting Wall Street's financial problems for political gain.

    ADVERTISEMENT

    Aide Steve Schmidt, who worked for the Bush-Cheney team in 2004, told reporters Thursday aboard McCain's plane that Obama is "cheerleading this crisis." He said McCain is seeking a bipartisan solution although Schmidt and aides Mark Salter and Nicole Wallace also said Democratic congressional leaders should be condemned for considering adjourning without addressing the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers, the sale of Merrill Lynch and the emergency government loan to insurer AIG.

    The aides say the Arizona senator will make the same criticisms during his speeches.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    NRO, who was previously crowing about poll numbers ad nauseum a week ago (including suggesting that New York would be in play), has pretty much stopped acknowledging that polls exist.

    This makes me smile.

    We did the same thing in reverse.

    Although we don't crow so much.

    We're more in the "Polls don't matter... but look how AWESOME we're doing!" crowd.

  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Qingu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this
    Wait, were you a former Republican? And are you leaning towards Obama now?

    Do ... I owe you cookies?

    I also specifically stated that you owe me cookies

    Granted I'm in Mississippi so it probably won't matter but, you know, cookies.

    Demand what's yours Sal. Get those damn cookies.

    steam_sig.png
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2008
    Jebu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this

    I have a couple pub friends who were unenthusiastic about McCain but love Palin. I really don't get it.
    Evangelical social conservatives? Fair assumption.

    Also, she's folksy. You know, from a small town. I hear they make good people in small towns. Also in Keebler factories.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • werehippywerehippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this

    The convention was only like two weeks ago. Considering D+D is running roughly a politics thread every 1.25-1.5 days, it's not hard to miss someone saying something that doesn't come up all that often :)

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2008
    Taramoor wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    NRO, who was previously crowing about poll numbers ad nauseum a week ago (including suggesting that New York would be in play), has pretty much stopped acknowledging that polls exist.

    This makes me smile.

    We did the same thing in reverse.

    Although we don't crow so much.

    We're more in the "Polls don't matter... but look how AWESOME we're doing!" crowd.

    I'm pretty sure we never seriously said that we might win Utah, but fair point. Mostly I was just schadenfruedin'.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I believe someone was requesting an Obama attack ad on McCain's history of supporting privatizing Social Security?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV9GZUtCgPc

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • ClevingerClevinger Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I remember a while back people were having a hard time giving Joe Klein props for having a few good articles among his sea of bullshit, but he's been continuing the good:

    http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1842030,00.html
    John McCain and the Lying Game

    McCain's lies have ranged from the annoying to the sleazy, and the problem is in both degree and kind. His campaign has been a ceaseless assault on his opponent's character and policies, featuring a consistent—and witting—disdain for the truth.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sal wrote: »
    Stop posting so fast! This thread is out of control!

    In other news, McCain is a dick.
    By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
    2 hours, 56 minutes ago



    CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa - Top aides to Republian John McCain are claiming Democrat Barack Obama and his advisers are exploiting Wall Street's financial problems for political gain.

    ADVERTISEMENT

    Aide Steve Schmidt, who worked for the Bush-Cheney team in 2004, told reporters Thursday aboard McCain's plane that Obama is "cheerleading this crisis." He said McCain is seeking a bipartisan solution although Schmidt and aides Mark Salter and Nicole Wallace also said Democratic congressional leaders should be condemned for considering adjourning without addressing the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers, the sale of Merrill Lynch and the emergency government loan to insurer AIG.

    The aides say the Arizona senator will make the same criticisms during his speeches.


    Because John McCain would never exploit a crisis for political gain.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLEZ5AZL5BE

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Archgarth wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    NRO, who was previously crowing about poll numbers ad nauseum a week ago (including suggesting that New York would be in play), has pretty much stopped acknowledging that polls exist.

    This makes me smile.

    Let's be honest Jeffe, we've all done the same, but reverse.

    Are you kidding? The liberals on the internet forums spent the last two weeks ANGUISHING over the polls and screaming that the sky was falling. They pay attention to the polls, but they overreact no matter the outcome.

    Generalizing.

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Qingu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this
    Wait, were you a former Republican? And are you leaning towards Obama now?

    Do ... I owe you cookies?

    I also specifically stated that you owe me cookies

    Granted I'm in Mississippi so it probably won't matter but, you know, cookies.
    I will totally send you cookies if you promise to vote for Obama and post your address. A promise is a promise, Mr. Frodo! And I intend to keep it.

    Edit: does anyone know if this is illegal?

  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Qingu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this
    Wait, were you a former Republican? And are you leaning towards Obama now?

    Do ... I owe you cookies?

    I never got cookies from you. Where are my cookies?

  • DeaconBluesDeaconBlues __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    And then we wind up in the retarded, "Well, Obama said he'd be a new kind of politician, so that makes every transgression of his a hundred times worse, and since McCain only has 50 times as many transgressions, Obama is actually twice is bad" zone and we bicker for awhile before something shiny distracts us.

    Comparisons aside, isn't pointing out ways in which Obama is "buisness as usual" a valid tactic? You yourself admitted that part of his draw was the ability to somehow fundamentally change things.

    I'm willfully going to ignore this because it's well-trodden ground and because I want to get off this topic. No offense.

    WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO ANSWER I WIN BY DEFAULT

    (jk understood)

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sal wrote: »
    Stop posting so fast! This thread is out of control!

    In other news, McCain is a dick.
    By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
    2 hours, 56 minutes ago



    CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa - Top aides to Republian John McCain are claiming Democrat Barack Obama and his advisers are exploiting Wall Street's financial problems for political gain.

    ADVERTISEMENT

    Aide Steve Schmidt, who worked for the Bush-Cheney team in 2004, told reporters Thursday aboard McCain's plane that Obama is "cheerleading this crisis." He said McCain is seeking a bipartisan solution although Schmidt and aides Mark Salter and Nicole Wallace also said Democratic congressional leaders should be condemned for considering adjourning without addressing the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers, the sale of Merrill Lynch and the emergency government loan to insurer AIG.

    The aides say the Arizona senator will make the same criticisms during his speeches.


    Because John McCain would never exploit a crisis for political gain.

    snip

    It's not fair because Obama is using this opportunity to talk about the issues instead of focusing on personalities instead.

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this
    Wait, were you a former Republican? And are you leaning towards Obama now?

    Do ... I owe you cookies?

    I never got cookies from you. Where are my cookies?
    Who the hell are you?

  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Edit: Delz took his post back, so I'll just drop the whole argument.

    camo_sig2.png
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    So Stiglitz is saying that the current Wall Street collapses are for market fundamentalism what the fall of the Berlin Wall was for Communism- the final nail in the coffin that discredits an extremist philosophy.

    Obviously a shift in regulatory doctrine is not as big a deal as the collapse of the Berlin Wall, but I found it interesting- the US, which is the champion of market fundamentalism, is now stepping in left and right to bail out companies during a crisis precipitated by market fundamentalism.

  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Qingu wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    Sal in poltical limbo

    never thought I'd see the day :)

    I've been in limbo since the convention

    How are people just now still hearing about this
    Wait, were you a former Republican? And are you leaning towards Obama now?

    Do ... I owe you cookies?

    I also specifically stated that you owe me cookies

    Granted I'm in Mississippi so it probably won't matter but, you know, cookies.
    I will totally send you cookies if you promise to vote for Obama and post your address. A promise is a promise, Mr. Frodo! And I intend to keep it.

    Edit: does anyone know if this is illegal?

    I doubt it's any more illegal than the vote-trading thing that's been regularly going on since 2000, and I really really doubt the FBI is going to come down on you for cookies, especially since I stated that I'd be voting for Obama before you made your pledge to provide delicious sustenance.

    PM with address will be forthcoming in a bit.

    sig.png
This discussion has been closed.