So has anybody tooled around with effective prot builds? The talents seem to have calmed down a bit, so I'm trying to figure out what best to use both at 60 and 70. The biggest problem I'm having is that I want to take almost every single point in Prot because they sound so good, even though I know that's probably not the way to go.
Anybody got some build suggestions?
If you go all the way down Prot, that'll leave you with 20 points left. I figure that's really not enough to take anything worthwhile in either tree that would be useful to Prot. Unless you really, really want stuff like Impale, Enrage, Commanding Presence, ect. So I think you can safely get away putting a ton of points into Prot for added fun.
This would be something I'd try. Take Cruelty and the new AC -> STR in Fury, Imp. Charge in Arms, and then take everything else in Prot. I left 2 points free, because those could be used for anything. Imp. Spell Reflection if you do arena, or Anticipation for tanking. Could even take out the Charge points from Arms if you don't really care about it and use them (I only took it because of Warbringer).
edit: Hmm, I just realized that's for a lv80. If it's for 70, I'd probably just skip everything in Arms and only 4 in Cruelty then.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
That looks similar to what I was thinking, except you skipped Anticipation and while admitting that I don't know what I'm talking about, I always thought 5% of dodge was a must-have.
And I don't know if I am doing this right, but I don't think I've ever used Disarm. Should I be? Or is it being buffed? Oh, hm... 10% more damage while disarmed. Didn't notice that. Does that work on everything?
Heroic Throw is a level 80 ability, right? Definitely not bothering with Gag Order until I can use it to pull casters then. Interupts aren't my thing, I'd rather reflect...
Speaking of reflect, there is nothing I've wanted more than to be able to reflect spells that are hitting my groups. I anticipate doing a lot of 5 mans / heroics on my warrior and I think 2 points in Imp Spell Reflect would be too useful to pass up. Maybe suck those points out of Improved Revenge...
What about the new Armored to the Teeth talent? I did some science (math) and figured out that with what I consider a healthy 17k armor, I'm only getting 42 strength for 3 talent points. Doesn't sound terribly exciting, but I guess it'll scale with gear and is basically another gear slot worth of strength....
Unending Fury: Reduces the rage cost of your Slam, Whirlwind and Bloodthirst abilities equal to the number of devs sleeping on the job.
Titan's Grip: Allows you to equip two-handed axes, maces and swords in one hand. Also reduces the chance you will buy WoTLK by 15%.
Improved Warrior: Instantly transforms you into a Death Knight, increasing damage by 20%. You can move but cannot perform terrible abilities and you do not feel pity or remorse or fear and you cannot be stopped unless killed twice.
I'd find that funny but it was posted on the official WoW forum. Now I just kinda wish that person would die.
I love some of the talents. Shockwave is a blast. I get a kick out of being able to aoe tank. I mean I am not a pally and you have to follow a kill order but its nice knowing that I can tank more than two or three things at once.
Probably for 80 I might dump more into arms since I usually found the stuff in there easier.
My favorite AM moment, I was in BF with some guildies at the second boss, the last orc was sheeped as we waited for mana. The guy who had a 70 Rogue, Druid and Warlock at this point looked over at me and asked why my Rage bar was full.
My favorite AM moment, I was in BF with some guildies at the second boss, the last orc was sheeped as we waited for mana. The guy who had a 70 Rogue, Druid and Warlock at this point looked over at me and asked why my Rage bar was full.
So has anybody tooled around with effective prot builds? The talents seem to have calmed down a bit, so I'm trying to figure out what best to use both at 60 and 70. The biggest problem I'm having is that I want to take almost every single point in Prot because they sound so good, even though I know that's probably not the way to go.
Anybody got some build suggestions?
If you go all the way down Prot, that'll leave you with 20 points left. I figure that's really not enough to take anything worthwhile in either tree that would be useful to Prot. Unless you really, really want stuff like Impale, Enrage, Commanding Presence, ect. So I think you can safely get away putting a ton of points into Prot for added fun.
Impale will most certainly be part of my prot build at 80.
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
Even when Titan's Grip was working, it seemed pretty gimmicky to me. To be fair though, I didn't spend a ton of time with it. I specced Arms and haven't looked back.
Oh, speaking of which, I ran Recount last night and while Overpower indeed only made up about 5-6% of my output, Deep Wounds was close to 11%, which I'm sure was a result of Trauma.
It's going to be super hard to balance as a single talent point.
815165 on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
It just sort of seems like the 51 point BM talent for hunters, you know? Something that sounds badass on paper ('oh my god, I get to wield two two-handers at once?!' 'oh my god, I get to tame a core hound?!'), but then you play with that and realize that it doesn't really change anything very much. Fights still play out very much the same and you're not really doing anything all that differently from before.
Halfmex on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2008
Did I miss something? Why is Titan's Grip suddenly being remarked as absolute shit? Also, Anger Management is the worst talent ever.
Did I miss something? Why is Titan's Grip suddenly being remarked as absolute shit?
When have you heard otherwise?
Well to be fair, it was being pretty heavily praised after they took away the speed penalty and before they tacked the hit penalty on there, though again I think the praise could be attributed to the "newness" of it and not to the overall efficacy of the talent itself.
It's going to be super hard to balance as a single talent point.
A single... 51 point talent. Just give it some sort of penalty that's not hit. Like... raise the expertise cap or something. Fits the idea, anyway.
They've said talents have a budget just like items though, so I'm not sure it being a 51pt talent matters, for instance I'd say alot of the 51pt talents are close to or even worse than the 21pt and 31pt talents in some instances (Endless Rage vs Death Wish, for example).
It's going to be super hard to balance as a single talent point.
A single... 51 point talent. Just give it some sort of penalty that's not hit. Like... raise the expertise cap or something. Fits the idea, anyway.
They've said talents have a budget just like items though, so I'm not sure it being a 51pt talent matters, for instance I'd say alot of the 51pt talents are close to or even worse than the 21pt and 31pt talents in some instances (Endless Rage vs Death Wish, for example).
Talent Budget is a bunch of bullshit. Someone summed it up much better than I could... let me see if I can find the thread...
Mortal strike and bloodthirst are overbudget. Improved slam is overbudget. Flurry is underbudget. Bloodsurge is underbudget. Strength of Arms is underbudget. IMproved heroic strike is underbudget. Sword and board is overbudget. Devastate is overbudget. Unbridled wrath is underbudget. Improved execute is underbudget.
I dunno man, sometimes I'd rather listen to the devs about this stuff rather than angry class whine.
Oh right. Maybe I'm getting misinformation about Titan's Grip.
Chances are it is good but people a) don't want to change any sort of robotic button pushing they've developed or b) want it to be better / overpowered and just say it is gimped.
I think alot of the anger comes from them picking the most irritating form of counter-balance (-15% hit on specials, miss streaks are the most frustrating part of playing any melee class), but it was always going to have a counter-balance.
815165 on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
Well again, Titan's Grip doesn't really do anything, so it's not a change in function, it's just an equip talent. To be honest, it makes more sense as a level 80 trainable skill than it does a 51 point talent, because again, nothing changes fundamentally about Fury even at that level. Whirlwind is still your bread and butter, you're still using Blood(lust? thirst? I can never remember the name of that skill) whenever it's up, etc.
So I haven't really been following warriors at all, but I might play mine for WOTLK. Is titan grip looking good or is it complete crap?
Sadly it's looking like crap. We are crossing our fingers and hoping Blizzard fixes it before the patch goes live but as of now it doesn't look hopeful.
And to mirror what others have said, the thing I hate most about playing my Rogue is sitting there trying to stack 350+ hit rating at level 70. I fucking can't stand it and have to sacrifice lots of other stats in order to achieve that. With TG, guess what, Warriors are now in the same boat!
Fuck that.
Wavechaser on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2008
I just dinked around with the WoWhead talent builder and the prot line seems much more refined since I've last checked. It felt like the best allocating of talents ever.
Did I miss something? Why is Titan's Grip suddenly being remarked as absolute shit? Also, Anger Management is the worst talent ever.
People feel like they will have to give up too much AP and Crit to make up for the increased miss rate on yellow attacks. Blizzard feels that reducing the hit rate on yellow attacks brings Fury more inline with the DPS from other classes.
I remember people around these parts hating on the Arms and Fury 41pt talents 2 years ago. So the hate for a 51pt talent isn't anything new.
Nope, quite the contrary now, it's pretty much standard in an Arms rotation on the PTR from what I've been reading. Dunno about Fury.
Slam has been part of Arms (PVE) Dps rotations all through TBC.
As for titans grip...I really do think that the added miss is being blown out of proportion. People make it sound like you will now not hit anything, ever. All it does is bring your yellow miss in line with your white miss (if you are DWing). No one gets their panties in a twist if they are missing a few white attacks in a row. It certainly makes it harder to dump rage (if you get unlucky) and makes hit a lot more important for fury warriors. However, we are facinga full gear reset...I don't quite get people who whine that they have to "give up" a stat in favour of another. This happens all the time. Just remember the mp5/int/spirit shennigans taht completely changed how usefull the stats were in relation to each other.
Nope, quite the contrary now, it's pretty much standard in an Arms rotation on the PTR from what I've been reading. Dunno about Fury.
Slam has been part of Arms (PVE) Dps rotations all through TBC.
As for titans grip...I really do think that the added miss is being blown out of proportion. People make it sound like you will now not hit anything, ever. All it does is bring your yellow miss in line with your white miss (if you are DWing). No one gets their panties in a twist if they are missing a few white attacks in a row. It certainly makes it harder to dump rage (if you get unlucky) and makes hit a lot more important for fury warriors. However, we are facinga full gear reset...I don't quite get people who whine that they have to "give up" a stat in favour of another. This happens all the time. Just remember the mp5/int/spirit shennigans taht completely changed how usefull the stats were in relation to each other.
Except that slam reset your swing timer and was only able to get used appropriately by someone with latency of less than 100, making it a retarded skill in my book.
For your information, it's not just the hit stacking that is annoying, and I cannot fathom why you can't understand why someone would be upset about giving one stat up for others, it's pretty self explanatory. Builds that don't have to give up those stats are already superior to TG specs, which will make them pull ahead even further later down the line when you can focus on more appropriate stats instead of going for 600 hit rating.
Right now TG is the black sheep of the specs, it has less DPS than arms by a fair amount, and less utility than the Prot tree, making it very "meh", which is why you are seeing complaints.
This is a forum for discussion on Warrior talents, and everyone here that was looking forward to Titan's Grip has every right in the world to express concern about it, because for both PvE and PvP Prot and Arms are currently superior builds.
If that frustrates or annoys you, sorry, but the discussion and comments made here ragarding TG are very valid.
Personally, I really don't give two shits about all this stupid theorycraft numbers bullshit. Especially the level that goes on lately.
"Your spec only does 500 dps, when you could be doing 600 with another, and you put a point into Talent X which sux and you only have 80 hit when you should have 90... LOL NUB U FUX SUX!!!!11!"
Titan Grip? It was fun. Remember what fun used to be?
I had 2 huge weapons in each hand, and I was swinging away and decimating the population, and I was having a blast. I did not care one bit that with another spec, I could have killed that mob 7.89 seconds faster. I did not fly into a nerd rage when I saw the word MISS come up on the screen. I was playing, and damnit I was having a blast.
Now with that said, I'm not completely ignorant to the numbers game and how you need X and Y to be viable in the long run. And I do think a 15% miss rate might be too steep and need tweaking.
But for the time being, I don't care. I don't have 15 damage mods running with a spreadsheet and all that shit. I'm just playing what I think is fun. And running around the world with 2 giant swords on my back is fun.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Posts
I took my warrior to the ptr and I think that is what I am going to be at 70
If you go all the way down Prot, that'll leave you with 20 points left. I figure that's really not enough to take anything worthwhile in either tree that would be useful to Prot. Unless you really, really want stuff like Impale, Enrage, Commanding Presence, ect. So I think you can safely get away putting a ton of points into Prot for added fun.
This would be something I'd try. Take Cruelty and the new AC -> STR in Fury, Imp. Charge in Arms, and then take everything else in Prot. I left 2 points free, because those could be used for anything. Imp. Spell Reflection if you do arena, or Anticipation for tanking. Could even take out the Charge points from Arms if you don't really care about it and use them (I only took it because of Warbringer).
edit: Hmm, I just realized that's for a lv80. If it's for 70, I'd probably just skip everything in Arms and only 4 in Cruelty then.
That looks similar to what I was thinking, except you skipped Anticipation and while admitting that I don't know what I'm talking about, I always thought 5% of dodge was a must-have.
And I don't know if I am doing this right, but I don't think I've ever used Disarm. Should I be? Or is it being buffed? Oh, hm... 10% more damage while disarmed. Didn't notice that. Does that work on everything?
Heroic Throw is a level 80 ability, right? Definitely not bothering with Gag Order until I can use it to pull casters then. Interupts aren't my thing, I'd rather reflect...
Speaking of reflect, there is nothing I've wanted more than to be able to reflect spells that are hitting my groups. I anticipate doing a lot of 5 mans / heroics on my warrior and I think 2 points in Imp Spell Reflect would be too useful to pass up. Maybe suck those points out of Improved Revenge...
What about the new Armored to the Teeth talent? I did some science (math) and figured out that with what I consider a healthy 17k armor, I'm only getting 42 strength for 3 talent points. Doesn't sound terribly exciting, but I guess it'll scale with gear and is basically another gear slot worth of strength....
This is what I've come up with, I guess
I'd find that funny but it was posted on the official WoW forum. Now I just kinda wish that person would die.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warrior=050000000000000000000000000000053351025213012521330113321305000000000000000000000000
I love some of the talents. Shockwave is a blast. I get a kick out of being able to aoe tank. I mean I am not a pally and you have to follow a kill order but its nice knowing that I can tank more than two or three things at once.
Probably for 80 I might dump more into arms since I usually found the stuff in there easier.
Sooo you took Anger Management over Shockwave? Yeah...
Especially for Anger Management, you could go 1/2 Imp Rend instead.
"Nothing makes me angrier than having to wait!"
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
Impale will most certainly be part of my prot build at 80.
Oh, speaking of which, I ran Recount last night and while Overpower indeed only made up about 5-6% of my output, Deep Wounds was close to 11%, which I'm sure was a result of Trauma.
A single... 51 point talent. Just give it some sort of penalty that's not hit. Like... raise the expertise cap or something. Fits the idea, anyway.
When have you heard otherwise?
Talent Budget is a bunch of bullshit. Someone summed it up much better than I could... let me see if I can find the thread...
Oh right. Maybe I'm getting misinformation about Titan's Grip.
Chances are it is good but people a) don't want to change any sort of robotic button pushing they've developed or b) want it to be better / overpowered and just say it is gimped.
c) like to talk out of their assholes.
Sadly it's looking like crap. We are crossing our fingers and hoping Blizzard fixes it before the patch goes live but as of now it doesn't look hopeful.
And to mirror what others have said, the thing I hate most about playing my Rogue is sitting there trying to stack 350+ hit rating at level 70. I fucking can't stand it and have to sacrifice lots of other stats in order to achieve that. With TG, guess what, Warriors are now in the same boat!
Fuck that.
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
Edit: Odd, this wasn't a totp post at first.
People feel like they will have to give up too much AP and Crit to make up for the increased miss rate on yellow attacks. Blizzard feels that reducing the hit rate on yellow attacks brings Fury more inline with the DPS from other classes.
I remember people around these parts hating on the Arms and Fury 41pt talents 2 years ago. So the hate for a 51pt talent isn't anything new.
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
Slam has been part of Arms (PVE) Dps rotations all through TBC.
As for titans grip...I really do think that the added miss is being blown out of proportion. People make it sound like you will now not hit anything, ever. All it does is bring your yellow miss in line with your white miss (if you are DWing). No one gets their panties in a twist if they are missing a few white attacks in a row. It certainly makes it harder to dump rage (if you get unlucky) and makes hit a lot more important for fury warriors. However, we are facinga full gear reset...I don't quite get people who whine that they have to "give up" a stat in favour of another. This happens all the time. Just remember the mp5/int/spirit shennigans taht completely changed how usefull the stats were in relation to each other.
Except that slam reset your swing timer and was only able to get used appropriately by someone with latency of less than 100, making it a retarded skill in my book.
For your information, it's not just the hit stacking that is annoying, and I cannot fathom why you can't understand why someone would be upset about giving one stat up for others, it's pretty self explanatory. Builds that don't have to give up those stats are already superior to TG specs, which will make them pull ahead even further later down the line when you can focus on more appropriate stats instead of going for 600 hit rating.
Right now TG is the black sheep of the specs, it has less DPS than arms by a fair amount, and less utility than the Prot tree, making it very "meh", which is why you are seeing complaints.
This is a forum for discussion on Warrior talents, and everyone here that was looking forward to Titan's Grip has every right in the world to express concern about it, because for both PvE and PvP Prot and Arms are currently superior builds.
If that frustrates or annoys you, sorry, but the discussion and comments made here ragarding TG are very valid.
Also, it will be completely gimped until T8 or (more likely) T9.
Hit stacking is for rogues.
Arms will blow a TG build out of the water. Badly.
No other physical DPS class has ever had anything other than a 9% cap on specials.
You would need 600+ HR to cap specials. That's horrible. How is that okay?
Oh, and I forgot the point that's most important to me. Missing is not fun.
Raid one: Lucky day, most attacks hit. 5,000,000,000 DPS!!!!
Raid two: Bad day! Most attacks missed. 9 DPS!!
"Your spec only does 500 dps, when you could be doing 600 with another, and you put a point into Talent X which sux and you only have 80 hit when you should have 90... LOL NUB U FUX SUX!!!!11!"
Titan Grip? It was fun. Remember what fun used to be?
I had 2 huge weapons in each hand, and I was swinging away and decimating the population, and I was having a blast. I did not care one bit that with another spec, I could have killed that mob 7.89 seconds faster. I did not fly into a nerd rage when I saw the word MISS come up on the screen. I was playing, and damnit I was having a blast.
Now with that said, I'm not completely ignorant to the numbers game and how you need X and Y to be viable in the long run. And I do think a 15% miss rate might be too steep and need tweaking.
But for the time being, I don't care. I don't have 15 damage mods running with a spreadsheet and all that shit. I'm just playing what I think is fun. And running around the world with 2 giant swords on my back is fun.