Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Legal suicide!

ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEFRegistered User regular
edited October 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
There's an Initiative on the ballot this year in Washington that, if passed, would legalize suicide in some cases.

http://www.itsmydecision.org/

Personally, I'm all about this shit! Almost certainly for the wrong reasons, because I'm kind of a dick.

DISCUSS

Shorty on
chillaxton.jpg
and I broke parole just to get to you
«1

Posts

  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Wait.

    Since when is suicide illegal?

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I-1000 allows mentally competent, terminally ill adults with six months or less to live to receive - under strict safeguards - a prescription for life-ending medication
    Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    Battle.net ID: Jaef#1126 -- Steam: Jaef -- PSN: Jaef -- League of Legends: Jaef -- League VODS: Twitch or YouTube
    check.php?c=Jaefster ~~ Live Stream
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Wait.

    Since when is suicide illegal?

    Since...forever?

  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Oh wait.

    This is euthanasia, not suicide.

    Well, it is suicide, but euthanasia is more specific.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Wait.

    Since when is suicide illegal?

    Since...forever?

    Oh what.

    I wasn't aware of that.

    But... that is pretty strange though.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Wait.

    Since when is suicide illegal?

    To clarify, this doesn't deal with suicide, but rather with assisted suicide. Basically legally providing lethal medicine to patients in certain circumstances.

    I'm conflicted about this. I agree completely that a person who does not want to deal with the pain of a terminal illness should be allowed a release. On a personal level, though, it does skeeze me out...I've had 4 family members die by suicide so far. Of course, my personal feelings shouldn't prevent others from taking such action if they feel it's the right thing to do.

    steam_sig.png
    IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    This could be an interesting topic, and I'd like to expand it beyond the US.

    This is a story about a British woman with MS who wants the option to travel to Sweden to an Assisted Suicide clinic. She's worried about the potential legal ramifications if she needs help from her Husband to get there and nobody is giving her any answers on whether he would be prosecuted.

    I heard an interview with her on Radio 4 the other day on the way to work. This is not Euthanasia, this is Assisted suicide.

    Also: How do other European Nations deal with the issue?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    JAEF wrote: »
    I-1000 allows mentally competent, terminally ill adults with six months or less to live to receive - under strict safeguards - a prescription for life-ending medication
    Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    I'm in kind of two minds. Personally, I feel that every second a person lives is another second they can potentially contribute to society. On the other hand, I think there's a limit on how much any one person owes society and if they really think that they've done their time then, uh, I guess.

    I suppose that I'm saying is, I can understand why people let religions make their decisions for them in situations like this, it's morally grey and very much subject to specific circumstances and isn't something that I'd like to have to make a blanket moral choice on one way or another.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm generally for this, though I am pretty conflicted about how you'd regulate it.

    The Company: The CYOA game that anybody can join at any time - running now!
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Wait.

    Since when is suicide illegal?

    Since...forever?

    Oh what.

    I wasn't aware of that.

    But... that is pretty strange though.

    I asssume that's so that courts can intervene if someone fails. It seems wrong to actually call it illegal, but I don't think there's any other means by which to impose restrictions on individuals.

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Wait.

    Since when is suicide illegal?

    Since...forever?

    Oh what.

    I wasn't aware of that.

    But... that is pretty strange though.

    To be perfectly clear, suicide isn't illegal, since they can't prosecute you for killing yourself. Because you're dead, see?

    Attempted suicide is completely illegal and has been for forever. Typically if you are found guilty, they send you to a mental health hospital.

    chillaxton.jpg
    and I broke parole just to get to you
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    JAEF wrote: »
    I-1000 allows mentally competent, terminally ill adults with six months or less to live to receive - under strict safeguards - a prescription for life-ending medication
    Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    I'm in kind of two minds. Personally, I feel that every second a person lives is another second they can potentially contribute to society. On the other hand, I think there's a limit on how much any one person owes society and if they really think that they've done their time then, uh, I guess.

    I suppose that I'm saying is, I can understand why people let religions make their decisions for them in situations like this, it's morally grey and very much subject to specific circumstances and isn't something that I'd like to have to make a blanket moral choice on one way or another.

    I believe that if a person qualifies for euthanasia they are definitely not fit to contribute to contribute to society anymore...?

    Contributing to society is a pretty crap reason to decide between either a few months of pain before going to eternal rest or just going straight to it anyway.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Wait.

    Since when is suicide illegal?

    Since...forever?

    I was going to say that but that's incorrect and I was too lazy to actually look up when that shit was outlawed.

    steam_sig.png
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    JAEF wrote: »
    I-1000 allows mentally competent, terminally ill adults with six months or less to live to receive - under strict safeguards - a prescription for life-ending medication
    Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    Ditto. The wording in it is important. Basically, if someone who is capable of making decisions for themselves falls terminally ill and reaches a point where their life expectency is super short, they have the legal option to end their life via a specific manner.

    Cleans up that mess of doctors and families going to court methinks.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Antihippy wrote: »
    JAEF wrote: »
    I-1000 allows mentally competent, terminally ill adults with six months or less to live to receive - under strict safeguards - a prescription for life-ending medication
    Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    I'm in kind of two minds. Personally, I feel that every second a person lives is another second they can potentially contribute to society. On the other hand, I think there's a limit on how much any one person owes society and if they really think that they've done their time then, uh, I guess.

    I suppose that I'm saying is, I can understand why people let religions make their decisions for them in situations like this, it's morally grey and very much subject to specific circumstances and isn't something that I'd like to have to make a blanket moral choice on one way or another.

    I believe that if a person qualifies for euthanasia they are definitely not fit to contribute to contribute to society anymore...?

    Contributing to society is a pretty crap reason to decide between either a few months of pain before going to eternal rest or just going straight to it anyway.

    Depending on what you define as "contributing to society" many of these people will have been unable to work for years, and in a purely monetary view (sorry to be that guy) - have not contributed in a long time and will be very expensive to maintain.

    If however, you mean that they are here and we can benefit from and enjoy their presence - then that's also a little grey as they no longer thing so. If you're in a vegetative state - are you contributing to society? A lit of people just don't want to end up like that.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • HacksawHacksaw J Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm generally for this, though I am pretty conflicted about how you'd regulate it.
    I'm pretty sure they're going to require you to go through a psychologist or something to make sure you're of sound mind before they give you the thumbs up on whether you can off yourself or not.

  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Fallingman wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    JAEF wrote: »
    I-1000 allows mentally competent, terminally ill adults with six months or less to live to receive - under strict safeguards - a prescription for life-ending medication
    Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

    I'm in kind of two minds. Personally, I feel that every second a person lives is another second they can potentially contribute to society. On the other hand, I think there's a limit on how much any one person owes society and if they really think that they've done their time then, uh, I guess.

    I suppose that I'm saying is, I can understand why people let religions make their decisions for them in situations like this, it's morally grey and very much subject to specific circumstances and isn't something that I'd like to have to make a blanket moral choice on one way or another.

    I believe that if a person qualifies for euthanasia they are definitely not fit to contribute to contribute to society anymore...?

    Contributing to society is a pretty crap reason to decide between either a few months of pain before going to eternal rest or just going straight to it anyway.

    Depending on what you define as "contributing to society" many of these people will have been unable to work for years, and in a purely monetary view (sorry to be that guy) - have not contributed in a long time and will be very expensive to maintain.

    If however, you mean that they are here and we can benefit from and enjoy their presence - then that's also a little grey as they no longer thing so. If you're in a vegetative state - are you contributing to society? A lit of people just don't want to end up like that.

    This is obviously an extreme example, but when Stephen Hawking developed amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, doctors estimated he'd have two to three years left to live. Upon contracting the disease he temporarily abandoned his PhD as he didn't see any point in getting a doctorate if he was going to die soon.

    Also, I'm not sure if this applies to vegetative states because at that point, the person is no longer capable of making any decisions.

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    I'm generally for this, though I am pretty conflicted about how you'd regulate it.
    I'm pretty sure they're going to require you to go through a psychologist or something to make sure you're of sound mind before they give you the thumbs up on whether you can off yourself or not.

    Which is funny in a way (not ha ha funny) because some people think wanting to off yourself means you're not of sound mind.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • HacksawHacksaw J Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Henroid wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    I'm generally for this, though I am pretty conflicted about how you'd regulate it.
    I'm pretty sure they're going to require you to go through a psychologist or something to make sure you're of sound mind before they give you the thumbs up on whether you can off yourself or not.

    Which is funny in a way (not ha ha funny) because some people think wanting to off yourself means you're not of sound mind.
    Those people are generally retarded. Their opinions don't count.

  • MarlorMarlor Registered User
    edited October 2008
    I'm generally for this, though I am pretty conflicted about how you'd regulate it.

    I think most people feel that way.

    My main qualms are:
    a) People who are depressed about their illness, but possibly have quite a few more good years ahead of them deciding to end it. In that case, they could simply be making the decision based on clinical depression.
    b) Family members deciding to get rid of Grandma because she's too much of a burden. If she is in the early stages of dementia, she could be convinced that it's the best choice, but still seem lucid and capable of making her own decision to doctors.

    There needs to be strict regulation. It should only be for people who aren't suffering from any mental illness, are in the late stages of a terminal illness, who have consistently made demands for assisted suicide over a period of weeks or months, and have received counselling from a trained mental health expert.

    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Shorty wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Wait.

    Since when is suicide illegal?

    Since...forever?

    Oh what.

    I wasn't aware of that.

    But... that is pretty strange though.

    To be perfectly clear, suicide isn't illegal, since they can't prosecute you for killing yourself. Because you're dead, see?

    Attempted suicide is completely illegal and has been for forever. Typically if you are found guilty, they send you to a mental health hospital.

    I didn't really know that it was actually a law though. That you could be persecuted for and found guilty of. (Though is that how the process goes?)

    Just seems strange to me.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    Wait.

    Since when is suicide illegal?

    Since...forever?

    Oh what.

    I wasn't aware of that.

    But... that is pretty strange though.

    To be perfectly clear, suicide isn't illegal, since they can't prosecute you for killing yourself. Because you're dead, see?

    Attempted suicide is completely illegal and has been for forever. Typically if you are found guilty, they send you to a mental health hospital.

    I didn't really know that it was actually a law though. That you could be persecuted for and found guilty of. (Though is that how the process goes?)

    Just seems strange to me.

    Eh. It causes disruption, costs money to clean up, you might be doing it to dodge other legal responsibilities etc. Lots of reasons to make it, or attempts at it, illegal.

    Also the fact that a lot of our laws stem from religious moral codes, where suicide is typically considered a sin

  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Marlor wrote: »
    I'm generally for this, though I am pretty conflicted about how you'd regulate it.

    I think most people feel that way.

    My main qualms are:
    a) People who are depressed about their illness, but possibly have quite a few more good years ahead of them deciding to end it. In that case, they could simply be making the decision based on clinical depression.
    b) Family members deciding to get rid of Grandma because she's too much of a burden. If she is in the early stages of dementia, she could be convinced that it's the best choice, but still seem lucid and capable of making her own decision to doctors.

    There needs to be strict regulation. It should only be for people who aren't suffering from any mental illness, are in the late stages of a terminal illness, who have consistently made demands for assisted suicide over a period of weeks or months, and have received counselling from a trained mental health expert.

    It's for terminally ill people with around 6 months to live.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm definately in the pro but still slightly worried camp. In other words - if someone could develop a fair, transparent system then I'd vote for it - if the vote ever came my way, which it wouldn't, given where I live.

    Having had a minor (well, 2 or so years) brush with chronic low levelish pain I have a bit of sympathy for people who have severe chronic pain and very little probable chance of recovery having the terminate option.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • MarlorMarlor Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Antihippy wrote: »
    It's for terminally ill people with around 6 months to live.

    That sounds fine, as long as they have had a comprehensive evaluation of their mental health.

    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Marlor wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    It's for terminally ill people with around 6 months to live.

    That sounds fine, as long as they have had a comprehensive evaluation of their mental health.

    Which we know from the OP, thanks guys!

    The only problem I see with this is being sure of those 6 months. Are such predictions for life expectancy accurate?

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Henroid wrote: »
    Marlor wrote: »
    Antihippy wrote: »
    It's for terminally ill people with around 6 months to live.

    That sounds fine, as long as they have had a comprehensive evaluation of their mental health.

    Which we know from the OP, thanks guys!

    The only problem I see with this is being sure of those 6 months. Are such predictions for life expectancy accurate?

    That's what I'm wondering. I'd expect that by the time doctors are saying six months it's a good bet you're fucked, but if having a baby has taught me anything, it's that time estimates in medicine are rarely completely accurate (Christ, our doctor said it normally takes about a year and a half to conceive. It took us one day. Literally).

    Also, see my previous example of Hawking. He was given 2-3 years to live. 45 years ago.


    Not that I'm against this necessarily.

  • MarlorMarlor Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Henroid wrote: »
    The only problem I see with this is being sure of those 6 months. Are such predictions for life expectancy accurate?

    If they say six months, then it's pretty much certain you're not getting better.

    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Also, medicine probably might have improved from 45 years ago.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • Kate of LokysKate of Lokys Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Quietus. You Decide When.â„¢

    I'm here to tell you about voting. Imagine you're locked in a huge underground nightclub filled with sinners, whores, freaks and unnameable things that rape pit bulls for fun. And you ain't allowed out until you all vote on what you're going to do tonight [. . .] So you vote for television, and everyone else, as far as your eye can see, votes to fuck you with switchblades. That's voting. You're welcome.
  • LerageLerage Registered User
    edited October 2008
    I'm in complete agreement with assisted suicide, it's clearly only going to be used in severe cases, so if a (non-depressed) person doesn't wish to live the last few months of their life in agony, then they really shouldn't have to.

    A person owns their own body, and they could kill themselves in a much more horrible way than a nice, peaceful injection in the company of family and friends.

  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    How are you not going to be depressed if you only have six months left to live?

  • AntihippyAntihippy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I really don't think depression would count into the evaluation.

    If you know that you'll only have 6 months to live and also live it in near constant agony you're bound to feel a little blue.

    They probably only analyze to see if the patient understands the decisions and consequences fully and made it on their own free will.

    10454_nujabes2.pngPSN: Antiwhippy
  • LerageLerage Registered User
    edited October 2008
    How are you not going to be depressed if you only have six months left to live?


    True...but a lot of people feel at peace, and ready to die when they know it's inevitable, particularly if they've been battling it for a long time and it's just getting worse. That's different to being clinically depressed with no physical condition, for example.

  • MarlorMarlor Registered User
    edited October 2008
    How are you not going to be depressed if you only have six months left to live?

    There's a difference between "being depressed" as a result of upsetting news, and clinical depression, which is a chronic condition related to biological factors such as low seratonin levels.

    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Marlor wrote: »
    How are you not going to be depressed if you only have six months left to live?

    There's a difference between "being depressed" as a result of upsetting news, and clinical depression, which is a chronic condition related to biological factors such as low seratonin levels.

    But one can lead to another. Clinical depression often occurs in patients with other long-lasting medical conditions.

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Damn you, eidetic memory! Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Marlor wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    The only problem I see with this is being sure of those 6 months. Are such predictions for life expectancy accurate?

    If they say six months, then it's pretty much certain you're not getting better.
    That's why regulation doesn't seem like it's going to be an issue. You get a qualified doctor to sign off that you're in the final stages of a terminal illness, as well as in continuous and untreatable pain.

    Origin ID: Null_Cypher
    Thomas-Vail.png
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer I'm Speed Racer and I drive real fast. I drive real fast, I'm gonna last.Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Marlor wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    The only problem I see with this is being sure of those 6 months. Are such predictions for life expectancy accurate?

    If they say six months, then it's pretty much certain you're not getting better.

    For what it's worth, my grandfather lived for 2 years after being given only three months.

    That aside, this seems pretty reasonable to me. It's not something I would do, or even especially condone, but I agree that the option should be available.

    speedsig2_zps388d2098.jpg
  • AresProphetAresProphet don't call it a fight when you know it's a warRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The reason it's illegal to attempt suicide is because of what it does to everyone around you. It's hell on everyone who knows the person who did it, because even the most mentally ill person recognizes that if he lets anyone know that he plans to attempt it they'll try to stop them.

    So it's always a shock, and then there's nothing left but maybe a suicide note. Everyone has unresolved things with that person, everyone feels like maybe if they just talked to him one more time...

    But if you're terminally ill, and you don't want to live out the remaining months of your life in not only intense suffering but also in ever-degrading mental faculties (in many cases) there's time to tie up those loose ends, for everyone involved to accept that someone they love is going to die. I mean, they'll have to do it anyway right? Just a few months later. After they've watched that person suffer. Which won't make it any easier.

    Make it legal for that terminally ill patient to get assistance with suicide and you (a) give him the chance to obtain some closure with their his and family (the lack of which makes suicide such an awful, selfish act in the first place) and (b) avoid pointless suffering.

    the first bit of advice that you gave me that I liked
    was they're too strong, too strong
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Is suicide ever actually officially recognized as a crime in the US?

    I'm pretty sure if you attempt suicide you're assumed to be of unsound mind and therefore can't DNR yourself up or refuse treatment, etc, but I don't think they can exactly put you in jail for it.

    sometimes you just gotta do a thing
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.