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US Ad Council: Hey Kids, Saying "Gay" is Gay

The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hopRegistered User regular
edited October 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
A Push To Curb Ugly Phrases.
NYT wrote:
FOR the first time since the Advertising Council was founded in 1942, the organization — which directs and coordinates public service campaigns on behalf of Madison Avenue and the media industry — is introducing ads meant to tackle a social issue of concern to gays and lesbians.

The campaign, which is scheduled to be announced by the council in Washington on Wednesday, will seek to discourage bullying and harassment of teenagers who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender.

The campaign, created pro bono by the New York office of Arnold Worldwide, urges an end to using derogatory language, particularly labeling anything deemed negative or unpleasant as “so gay.” That is underlined by the theme of the campaign: “When you say, ‘That’s so gay,’ do you realize what you say? Knock it off.”

There will be television and radio commercials, print and outdoor ads and a special Web site devoted to the campaign (thinkb4youspeak.com). Some spots feature celebrities, the young actress Hilary Duff and the comedian Wanda Sykes, delivering the message.
Man, I'm glad it's being done. It's lazy speaking, it's derogatory, and kids should knock it off. I'm sick of the lazy justifications for poor behavior.

Anti-PC Police -- sound your sirens below!!

The Green Eyed Monster on
wisdom wrote:
if knowledge is power and power corrupts, be smart, be evil
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Posts

  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I was really hoping the thread title would actually appear in the ad.

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Sentence enhancers are so [honk]ing [dolphin squeak].

    steam_sig.png
  • FencingsaxFencingsax Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    yeah, onomatopoeias are where it's at.

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Cantido wrote: »
    Sentence enhancers are so [honk]ing [dolphin squeak].

    Acceptable.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum
    Spoiler:
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    You know, I really don't care if 12-year-old boys use 'gay' as a derogatory term. I couldn't give a flying fuck. Consequently, at first glance, I was going to initially discount these ads as being a pointless waste of money. I mean, gay kids are getting beaten and occasionally killed... is that really less important than kids calling spawn campers in Halo 'gay'?

    But then I realized what the subtext is to these ads. They're saying that using the word 'gay' is hurtful to gay kids. Obviously that's a bad thing... because you don't want to hurt a gay kid's feelings. So the subtext here isn't "don't use 'gay' as an insult," but "don't insult gay kids."

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • FencingsaxFencingsax Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    You know, I really don't care if 12-year-old boys use 'gay' as a derogatory term. I couldn't give a flying fuck. Consequently, at first glance, I was going to initially discount these ads as being a pointless waste of money. I mean, gay kids are getting beaten and occasionally killed... is that really less important than kids calling spawn campers in Halo 'gay'?

    But then I realized what the subtext is to these ads. They're saying that using the word 'gay' is hurtful to gay kids. Obviously that's a bad thing... because you don't want to hurt a gay kid's feelings. So the subtext here isn't "don't use 'gay' as an insult," but "don't insult gay kids."
    Well, actually it's more Gay shouldn't be an insult because there's nothing derogatory about it, but yours works too.

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    You know, I really don't care if 12-year-old boys use 'gay' as a derogatory term. I couldn't give a flying fuck. Consequently, at first glance, I was going to initially discount these ads as being a pointless waste of money. I mean, gay kids are getting beaten and occasionally killed... is that really less important than kids calling spawn campers in Halo 'gay'?

    But then I realized what the subtext is to these ads. They're saying that using the word 'gay' is hurtful to gay kids. Obviously that's a bad thing... because you don't want to hurt a gay kid's feelings. So the subtext here isn't "don't use 'gay' as an insult," but "don't insult gay kids."
    Well, actually it's more Gay shouldn't be an insult because there's nothing derogatory about it, but yours works too.

    Well, yeah, that. But they're going, "Think about how gay kids might feel." They're humanizing homosexuals, which directly combats the dehumanization that is a necessary component of prejudice.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    You know, I really don't care if 12-year-old boys use 'gay' as a derogatory term. I couldn't give a flying fuck. Consequently, at first glance, I was going to initially discount these ads as being a pointless waste of money. I mean, gay kids are getting beaten and occasionally killed... is that really less important than kids calling spawn campers in Halo 'gay'?

    But then I realized what the subtext is to these ads. They're saying that using the word 'gay' is hurtful to gay kids. Obviously that's a bad thing... because you don't want to hurt a gay kid's feelings. So the subtext here isn't "don't use 'gay' as an insult," but "don't insult gay kids."
    I think it's more trying to say, "Don't use 'gay' as a general pejorative," because that's not (traditionally) what the word means, and it inscribes homosexuality with negativity, hate, dislike, etc..

    wisdom wrote:
    if knowledge is power and power corrupts, be smart, be evil
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Change it to 'NAMBLA.'

    "That's so NAMBLA."

    It rolls off the tongue.

  • BolthornBolthorn Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Sounds good.
    I started making a habit of saying "lame" instead. It's worked out well, but "lame" is a pretty lame word itself anymore. So "is freaking horrible" gets used more often.

    bolthorn_zps8e770883.png
    SteamID : http://steamcommunity.com/id/Bolthorn/
    PSN : Bolthorn
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Bolthorn wrote: »
    I started making a habit of saying "lame" instead. It's worked out well, but "lame" is a pretty lame word itself anymore.

    That's offensive to handicapped people.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • TachTach Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The last time I called something "gay" I accidentally did it in front of one of my best friends... who was gay.

    I felt like a complete ass, and have never since used it to describe something I didn't like.

    BNsig.jpg
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User
    edited October 2008
    They're not a pointless waste of money because of the simple fact that they're freeee.

    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
  • FencingsaxFencingsax Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Tach wrote: »
    The last time I called something "gay" I accidentally did it in front of one of my best friends... who was gay.

    I felt like a complete ass, and have never since used it to describe something I didn't like.
    Yeah, it's much less awkward to describe really fabulous and gay stuff as gay

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it
  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    They're not a pointless waste of money because of the simple fact that they're freeee.
    Does anyone think that ever a day will come where people actually read the links?
    NYT wrote:
    The campaign is on behalf of a nonprofit organization in New York called the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, or Glsen (pronounced glisten), which promotes tolerance among students. Glsen is spending about $2 million to develop and produce the campaign.

    wisdom wrote:
    if knowledge is power and power corrupts, be smart, be evil
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm pretty sure my childhood would have been less miserable if I didn't hear, literally, EVERY SINGLE PERSON AROUND ME calling things gay and people fags, so...I'm all for this.

    steam_sig.png

    3DS: 1607-3034-6970
  • Headspace CoolsHeadspace Cools Registered User
    edited October 2008
    I've been sick of this for a long time now. I'm at the point where I use a stock reply to anyone who uses 'gay' as a derogatory statement;

    "Gay? Did it at least buy you dinner before it tried to have anal sex with you?"

    And, as it would be no surprise to most people here (since I think the average IQ of a person who frequently refers to things being 'gay' is probably just north of 'retarded') most of the responses I get to that question are along the lines of "....huh?"

    Spoiler:
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    (since I think the average IQ of a person who frequently refers to things being 'gay' is probably just north of 'retarded')

    Don't call them retarded, that's offensive to mentally handicapped people.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Is it still cool to refer to things as "teh ghey?"

    I'm ambivalent about this. I once called someone the f-word, not meant in reference to homosexuality at all, and then realized that I very well could have offended anyone listening and not just the guy I was talking about. So I try not to use them anymore.

    It hearkens back to a time when "gay" to most people meant strange and weird and "queer" and not right and so forth.

    But Feral has accurately pointed out how many here already seem to have no problem with words that use physical (lame) or mental handicaps (retarded) as insults. The cynic in me can't help but recognize the "cause du jour" vs. an actual ethical standpoint.

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Change it to 'NAMBLA.'

    "That's so NAMBLA."

    It rolls off the tongue.

    you know what

    i like this

    i hate nambla and i feel comfortable using their name as a derogative slur

    and man saying "dude you're so fucking nambla" is pretty offensive, i think it carries more weight

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yar wrote: »
    Is it still cool to refer to things as "teh ghey?"

    I'm ambivalent about this. I once called someone the f-word, not meant in reference to homosexuality at all, and then realized that I very well could have offended anyone listening and not just the guy I was talking about. So I try not to use them anymore.

    It hearkens back to a time when "gay" to most people meant strange and weird and "queer" not right and so forth.

    But Feral has accurately pointed out how no one has problems with words that us physical (lame) or mental handicaps (retarded) as insults. The cynic in me can't help but recognize the "cause du jour" vs. an actual ethical standpoint.
    Uh, one of these is not like the other.

    39kEWYh.jpg
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I still use the word faggot sometimes (by accident) because for me it's so disassociated with homosexuality. I'm trying to stop, but it's the first thing that comes to mind now when someone's being lame... not 'dude you're being an asshole', but 'dude quit being such a faggot'. Then a few seconds later I realize the term I used. It sucks.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Organichu wrote: »
    I still use the word faggot sometimes (by accident) because for me it's so disassociated with homosexuality. I'm trying to stop, but it's the first thing that comes to mind now when someone's being lame... not 'dude you're being an asshole', but 'dude quit being such a faggot'. Then a few seconds later I realize the term I used. It sucks.
    But you can use it. :P

    39kEWYh.jpg
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Organichu wrote: »
    I still use the word faggot sometimes (by accident) because for me it's so disassociated with homosexuality. I'm trying to stop, but it's the first thing that comes to mind now when someone's being lame... not 'dude you're being an asshole', but 'dude quit being such a faggot'. Then a few seconds later I realize the term I used. It sucks.
    But you can use it. :P

    ;_;

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Oh, you haven't come to full terms with it yet? :P
    I find the word fag hilarious to use in the right situation. It's even funnier coming from a gay person.
    "Where did you find that shirt? You fag."

    39kEWYh.jpg
  • Headspace CoolsHeadspace Cools Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    (since I think the average IQ of a person who frequently refers to things being 'gay' is probably just north of 'retarded')

    Don't call them retarded, that's offensive to mentally handicapped people.

    It's offensive because the term 'retarded' is offensive?

    Or it's offensive because even retarded people have more common sense than to use 'gay' as a derogative?

    (Doesn't matter, I actually agree with either explanation)

    Spoiler:
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dude I found one guy hot. 1

    I'm still pro-puss times one thousand.

    (sorry to O/T)












    The word just pops off my tongue. Like,

    "Hey man, want to hit up the movies tonight?"
    "I have to be up tomorrow, nah"
    "Dude, you're being such a little faggot :x "

    It's one of the staples of the way I talk and I've been trying hard for a while now to suppress it. It probably doesn't help I talk so quickly.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    1. What about "that's so queer" to derisively note something that's abnormal? Since one of the definitions of queer is abnormal, and another is homosexual.

    2. What about "that's so gay" to derisively note something that is really gay, eg, a parade of Liberace impersonators?

    3. At what point does the word take on a 3rd meaning separate from "happy" or "homosexual" and simply exist as a homophone to those other meanings? Should handicapped people be offended by "that's so lame"?

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    i actually don't really monitor my profanity usage outside of "sensitive contexts"

    like, obviously i don't swear at work, but i don't just mean i don't use ethnic or sexual slurs, i don't even use fuck or shit at work because it's unprofessional and unacceptable in my workplace to talk like that.

    but around my buddies, i do in fact use ethnic, sexual, racial, and other slurs and offensive language in a casual and joking fashion.

    for example, if bemoaning the extreme cost of an item with my close friends, i may say that it is "so fucking jewish".

    this isn't some kind of slur against the jewish people. it is, in fact, slightly ironic because i myself am jewish and i am simultaneously adhering to a stereotype of jews being cheap bastards who bitch about the prices of things.

    i feel it's reasonable to expect people to adhere to different sets of conversational standards: the style they use around their close friends, the style they use around casual acquaintences, the sort they use at work, etc.

    i have friends, close friends, who are homosexuals. i have used the word "gay" or "faggot" around them (but not necessarily directed at them) in a derogatory fashion. they themselves have also done this. it doesn't hurt their feelings, it doesn't upset them, because they know i am their friend and that is not my intent. i'm using casual and intentionally abrasive language, often for comedic effect.

    i wouldn't do the same around a casual acquaintence, or a co-worker, because i don't know their feelings on the subject and it is not my intention to alienate them or hurt their feelings.

    so, like other slurs and perjoratives, i don't see an inherent problem with using words like "gay" or "fag", depending on their context. however, in the most common usage of these words derogatively the intention is to offend or insult someone, and that's not cool.

  • PirateJonPirateJon Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    my stock response to anyone calling something 'gay':

    "...and not the good kind where two naked dudes make out!"

    all perfectionists are mediocre in their own eyes
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    BubbaT wrote: »
    1. What about "that's so queer" to derisively note something that's abnormal? Since one of the definitions of queer is abnormal, and another is homosexual.

    2. What about "that's so gay" to derisively note something that is really gay, eg, a parade of Liberace impersonators?

    3. At what point does the word take on a 3rd meaning separate from "happy" or "homosexual" and simply exist as a homophone to those other meanings? Should handicapped people be offended by "that's so lame"?
    The keyword you are using here, and the reason your situations are not okay, is derisive.

    steam_sig.png

    3DS: 1607-3034-6970
  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Both "retarded" and "lame" at least still hold some connection to their accurate definitions, that of being lesser or weakend. "Gay" has no connection with "bad" except for in our societal prejudice against homosexuality.

    -- You could accurately say, "Lowering the CO2 in the test chamber retarded the plant's growth," meaning it slowed it down, made it worse, made it lesser, so it's really not too odd to extend and apply that as an adjective or a metaphor with negative characteristics.
    -- You could accurately say, "After the tackle, the runner came up a little lame," meaning he had hurt his leg, was slower, and was then a less effective runner. The word is synonymous with "impaired."

    "Gay," on the other hand, has no root connection to impairment, hurt or pain, or being lesser, aside from social prejudices against homosexuality. It's not at all an apt comparison Feral is making.

    wisdom wrote:
    if knowledge is power and power corrupts, be smart, be evil
  • Headspace CoolsHeadspace Cools Registered User
    edited October 2008
    BubbaT wrote: »
    1. What about "that's so queer" to derisively note something that's abnormal? Since one of the definitions of queer is abnormal, and another is homosexual.

    2. What about "that's so gay" to derisively note something that is really gay, eg, a parade of Liberace impersonators?

    3. At what point does the word take on a 3rd meaning separate from "happy" or "homosexual" and simply exist as a homophone to those other meanings? Should handicapped people be offended by "that's so lame"?

    1. I'm ok with 'queer' being used to describe something odd... because that's the literal definition of the word. The fact that it was ever used to describe homosexuals/lesbians is what was insulting.

    2. Dude... if I saw a bunch if Liberace impersonators parade by me, I would probably say; "OH MY GOD... that is so gay!" Nothing wrong with that, it's just pointing out a fact.

    3. Frankly, if we're to apply this standard to everything then yes; 'lame' should be insulting to the handicapped and crippled. But it's not AS bad as 'gay' being used as a derogative, because 'lame' is literally defined in a number of different ways... one of which is: weak; inadequate; unsatisfactory; clumsy. Since there is no definition of the word 'gay' that fits a derogitive connotation, then it becomes a much bigger infraction and insult.

    Spoiler:
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    (since I think the average IQ of a person who frequently refers to things being 'gay' is probably just north of 'retarded')

    Don't call them retarded, that's offensive to mentally handicapped people.

    I'm on shaky ground here. Hyper-PC certainly won't work. It's infeasible. However, it is, I think, these most subtle uses of the word that could normalize stigma. Or normalize the acceptance of homosexuality. Hell if I know.

    Like, if you jokingly call yourself a 'fat disgusting slob,' there's a limit until those thoughts start to sink in, right?

    Am I close at all?

    No, probably not.

  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    BubbaT wrote: »
    1. What about "that's so queer" to derisively note something that's abnormal? Since one of the definitions of queer is abnormal, and another is homosexual.

    2. What about "that's so gay" to derisively note something that is really gay, eg, a parade of Liberace impersonators?

    3. At what point does the word take on a 3rd meaning separate from "happy" or "homosexual" and simply exist as a homophone to those other meanings? Should handicapped people be offended by "that's so lame"?
    It takes on the third meaning when people start using it that way. I think you and I both know that currently that is not the most common usage of those terms.

    wisdom wrote:
    if knowledge is power and power corrupts, be smart, be evil
  • zestydeezestydee Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    When I was 11-12 (or whatever 6th grade was) my school initiated a very large anti-smoking campaign in my school; you couldn't walk three feet without a no-smoking poster popping up. We also had to go to a no smoking concert thing starring some acapella boy band. It was fairly atrocious. Several of my more rebellious classmates chose to start smoking afterwards in some misguided form of protest (I'm well aware how similar to a south park episode this is).

    Now should I be worried this could happen with anti-"using the word gay because you have the vocabulary of a sign language-using gorilla" ads? I'm not saying kids will start beating up gay people because a teacher told them not to, but I can certainly picture a myriad of smarmy 12 year-olds saying "dude, that poster is gay" in some failed attempt at irony.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    zestydee wrote: »
    When I was 11-12 (or whatever 6th grade was) my school initiated a very large anti-smoking campaign in my school; you couldn't walk three feet without a no-smoking poster popping up. We also had to go to a no smoking concert thing starring some acapella boy band. It was fairly atrocious. Several of my more rebellious classmates chose to start smoking afterwards in some misguided form of protest (I'm well aware how similar to a south park episode this is).

    Now should I be worried this could happen with anti-"using the word gay because you have the vocabulary of a sign language-using gorilla" ads? I'm not saying kids will start beating up gay people because a teacher told them not to, but I can certainly picture a myriad of smarmy 12 year-olds saying "dude, that poster is gay" in some failed attempt at irony.
    But overall smoking rates have lowered in the United States since the advent of anti-smoking campaigns.

    Next topic.

    wisdom wrote:
    if knowledge is power and power corrupts, be smart, be evil
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    (since I think the average IQ of a person who frequently refers to things being 'gay' is probably just north of 'retarded')

    Don't call them retarded, that's offensive to mentally handicapped people.

    It's offensive because the term 'retarded' is offensive?

    When you say somebody is "retarded" all that means is that their development is slowed. So using it as a derogatory term is offensive to people who have developmental disabilities. If you had diabetes and I started referring to things I didn't like as "that's so diabetic!" how do you think you would feel?

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Both "retarded" and "lame" at least still hold some connection to their accurate definitions, that of being lesser or weakend. "Gay" has no connection with "bad" except for in our societal prejudice against homosexuality.

    Using "retarded" or "lame" as a pejorative implies that people who are developmentally disabled or physically handicapped are lesser people. If you believe that using "gay" as an insult is insulting to gay people, then you must also hold that using "retarded" as an insult is insulting to retarded people.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
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