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Socialized Communist Healthcare (Canadians, Brits, et al)

JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting DefenseRegistered User regular
edited October 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
Hey, there, folks living in a country with national medicine

How do you feel about your system?

Would you trade it for the current US system of private insurance?

What do you like about your system?

What do you hate about it?

I have heard criticisms of the Dreaded Socialized Medicine where things are bandied about like, "Everyone gets the same treatment no matter how much care they need" and "Do you want to wait to see a doctor?"

I've also heard that there are sometimes not enough specialists to go around or that doctors don't make a fair wage under these systems.


I would really like a thread where people in nationalized healthcare systems tell the pros and cons, without Ameri-centric debate of the current candidate's policies.

JohnnyCache on
"Maybe we're here to eat the sandwich." -- Joe Rogan
«1345678

Posts

  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    There is no way in hell I would trade in the NHS, even with all its problems, for the US system of private medical insurance.

    Despite what the papers say, and the rumours that go around, the British system seems to work ok.

    I have a long-term medical condition that requires regular medication and frequent trips to my GP, as well as occasional hospital visits. I get my repeat prescritions every month, I have no problem getting an appointment with my GP, and I usually get to see a consultant within 2 months of asking for the appointment, which is much better than it used to be, and absolutely fine with me.

    If I was to move to the States I would either be refused insurance or the premiums would be so high I wouldn't be able to afford to eat.

    I'll stick with the NHS, thanks.

  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    When you say "consultant" what is that? Is that what I'd call a specialist?

    "Maybe we're here to eat the sandwich." -- Joe Rogan
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    When you say "consultant" what is that? Is that what I'd call a specialist?

    "In the United Kingdom, Ireland, and parts of the Commonwealth, consultant is the title of a senior doctor who has completed all of his or her specialist training and been placed on the specialist register in their chosen specialty."

  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yea, but are they specialists?


    ...sorry.

    "Despite all the bitching, if Diablo 3 sucks, I will eat my own cock. Counter-claim: If Diablo 3 does not suck, I will have a list of whiners who need to eat cocks." - Zen Vulgarity
  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm only asking this question to get the answer out - what are your emergency services like? If you NEEDED that specialist to say, do an emergency surgery, how quickly could you get one?

    "Maybe we're here to eat the sandwich." -- Joe Rogan
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Well...if it was like a car crash or something then it would happen immediately...

    If it was an operation that was needed but wouldn't cause death or serious problems if not done immediately, then it depends on the area, but it could be up to a few months (I'm guessing here as the only time I needed an operation within 24 hours I found this out as I went to A & E [ER] 'cos it was a Bank Holiday and I had the surgery within 5 hours of getting there).

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm only asking this question to get the answer out - what are your emergency services like? If you NEEDED that specialist to say, do an emergency surgery, how quickly could you get one?

    Define "emergency". NHS care mostly works on a triage basis, but waiting lists are weighted such that people don't get endlessly bumped to the bottom. If it's life threatening you'll get pretty much whatever you need as soon as you need it.

    An example at the moment would be my Aunt. She lost the sight in her right eye with no apparent external cause. Saw the doctor (GP) a couple of days later, was referred to an Oncologist the next day who wanted to schedule biopsies for two days later, but my Aunt was going on holiday so put it off for a couple of weeks. Got the biopsies done, waited a week for the results, and started radiotherapy on her other eye the day after the results were confirmed (this was the beginning of last week).

    Chemo was due to start on Monday (After the radiotherapy), but I haven't spoken to anyone in my family yet, so I don't know how that's going.

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    It's pretty shit and has some real problems. I wouldn't trade it in for the US system though, as that one is inferior and if I wanted I could go private in the UK anyway (we have a public and private system running in parallel, though less than ten percent use private). If I could trade it for say the German or Swedish systems though? In a second.

  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Starting Defense Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Leitner wrote: »
    It's pretty shit and has some real problems. I wouldn't trade it in for the US system though, as that one is inferior and if I wanted I could go private in the UK anyway (we have a public and private system running in parallel, though less than ten percent use private). If I could trade it for say the German or Swedish systems though? In a second.

    What do you like better about the German or the Swedish versions?

    And who uses private healthcare in the UK? Rich people?

    "Maybe we're here to eat the sandwich." -- Joe Rogan
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    I would make the swap to private health care, the NHS is poorly run, and the lack of competition means that the quality of the Hospitals is pretty dire, you pretty much get the very bare minimum over here.

    However, this is coming from a healthy 22 year old with money who isn't very happy about paying for other peoples health care. Does it work out for society, well, depends on how you think society should be run.

    I certainly think Obese people and smokers should be penalized, and other demographics, for contributory negligence.

    Wevs wrote:
    My man Willeh Willeh Willeh Dee
    Taggin up SE with a fat marker
    And this is what's on today's charter
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Leitner wrote: »

    And who uses private healthcare in the UK? Rich people?

    From what I have experienced, pretty much, you would have to be.

    Wevs wrote:
    My man Willeh Willeh Willeh Dee
    Taggin up SE with a fat marker
    And this is what's on today's charter
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    There's a good Frontline called "Sick Around the World" that compares the US system to five free market democracies (the UK, Germany, Switzerland, Japan and Taiwan) and how they do health care.

    Worth a look if you want some insight into how other countries do it.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    I would make the swap to private health care, the NHS is poorly run, and the lack of competition means that the quality of the Hospitals is pretty dire, you pretty much get the very bare minimum over here.

    However, this is coming from a healthy 22 year old with money who isn't very happy about paying for other peoples health care. Does it work out for society, well, depends on how you think society should be run.

    I certainly think Obese people and smokers should be penalized, and other demographics, for contributory negligence.

    To be fair, if I'd been asked the same question when I was younger I'd probably have had a similar response. Now, having friends who've had serious health problems, and the more I've had to manage my own finances, I wouldn't have the same response.

    My view of private healthcare is perhaps coloured by the fact that most private options in the UK are cripplingly expensive (because they cater primarily to the rich, and using additional services to distinguish them from the NHS rather than the quality of care) and I know a couple of people who've been through the healthcare system in the US and are rather complimentary about the NHS.

  • takyristakyris Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I've heard that Canada is a great place to get into a car accident and a lousy place to get cancer. All I know for sure is what I've experienced since moving up here for work in 2005:

    My allergies were getting worse and worse, and I was having a lot of trouble breathing. Finally, one Saturday afternoon, my wife said, "Shit, that doesn't sound like allergies. That sounds like asthma." I mentioned that my dad had asthma, but I'd never been diagnosed with it myself.

    I drove to a medicentre, filled out a form, and sat down. Two minutes later, I went in, saw a doctor, was confirmed as having asthma, and got a temporary prescription for both ordinary day-to-day asthma medication and emergency-use immediate asthma medication. I walked to the pharmacy next door and waited while they filled the prescription. I got it, got back in my car, drove home, took a hit on the inhaler, and drew a full breath for the first time in weeks.

    Time I'd spent talking to my doctors in the U.S. about this: 3 years of various medications.
    Time I went into the medicentre: 5:00 PM on a Saturday.
    Time I walked out of the pharmacy with my new inhalers: 5:17 PM.
    Total cost: $0, totally covered by healthcare plus my office's prescription benefit coverage. (Would have been, I think, $20 otherwise.)

    So right now, for all the hate I hear from some people, Canadian healthcare is all good in my books.

    Dox the PI wrote:
    takyris, Greek God of blowing shit up.
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dear UKers,

    Have you considered your freedom? Have you?

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I would love to hear from somebody with a severe chronic condition (frequent chronic migraines, multiple sclerosis, etc).

    I'd also love to hear from people with experiences in the French, German, Swiss, and Australian systems.

    Also, UK & Canada folks: what's your effective average tax rate?

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    I would love to hear from somebody with a severe chronic condition (frequent chronic migraines, multiple sclerosis, etc).


    Severe (something like) fibromyalgia - crippling pain in all muscles and all joints helped by quite a lot of strong drugs, carpal tunnel in both wrists, ME (got it when I was 12), post-ME related severe manic depression, post-ME related lack of imune system and several food intolerances, fucked up (in an odd way) eyesight...generally I get called the hypochondriac who is actually ill.

    trust me, I know the NHS. I get prescriptions once a month, I'm usually at the GP's at least once a month, eye-clinic twice a year, and seeing various consultants at least twice a year, depending on what new shit my body throws at me.

  • Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    I would love to hear from somebody with a severe chronic condition (frequent chronic migraines, multiple sclerosis, etc).

    I'd also love to hear from people with experiences in the French, German, Swiss, and Australian systems.

    Also, UK & Canada folks: what's your effective average tax rate?

    Remember my ex that has MS? Yeah, the only way she had any hope of getting treatment after college was if I went into the military and married her.

    Spoiler:
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User
    edited October 2008
    The best argument for socialised healthcare is the Help & Advice forum. It is fucking terrifying for a Briton to read. People make threads about being sick; having an infected bite; not being able to hear anymore.. and they can't go to the doctor because they don't have the money. When my American friend was over here, she went to the doctor like every week, just because she could.

    Also, ladies: socialised healthcare means you save ~ $500 a year right off the bat, for the Pill is free! As are abortions - it's pretty sick women are made to pay for those in America.

    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    Also, UK & Canada folks: what's your effective average tax rate?

    Personally or generally?

    I pay about 11 ish percent of gross income.

  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    BTW, just for comparison's sake, my effective tax rate is 35.7%.

    Broken down, and rounded:

    20% federal income tax
    6% Social Security (US's federal retirement system)
    1% Medicare (US's federal healthcare system for the elderly and disabled)
    7% California state tax
    1% California state disability insurance

    I'm in the 80th percentile for income.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    japan wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Also, UK & Canada folks: what's your effective average tax rate?

    Personally or generally?

    I pay about 11 ish percent of gross income.

    Personally.

    A frequent argument about healthcare in the US comes in the form, "Sure, they might have great healthcare in [insert country here] but did you know that they pay [insert obnoxiously high percentage here] of their income in taxes?"

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    japan wrote: »

    My view of private healthcare is perhaps coloured by the fact that most private options in the UK are cripplingly expensive (because they cater primarily to the rich, and using additional services to distinguish them from the NHS rather than the quality of care)

    This is not my experiance, everything I have had done privately has been in a much nicer environment, the staff have all been allot more pleasant (although to be fair, most of the staff in the NHS are not unpleasant, but there is a very "bare minimum" attitude) the Dr's seem more competent and are more personal (in the NHS, you could go 10 times and have 10 different GP's in my experiance).

    The experiance is a pleasant one, NHS hospitals are far from pleasant, there dingy, cramped and you share a room with 11 other patients with at least 3 of them throwing up/coughing/bleeding/suffering, which, OK isn't there fault, but its not nice to share a tiny uncomfortable room on a gurney with them when your trying to get better yourself.

    This is apposed to having a private room with a TV and a proper hospital bed (and a young attractive nurse who whilst high on drugs you fall in love with instantly <3 ).

    Wevs wrote:
    My man Willeh Willeh Willeh Dee
    Taggin up SE with a fat marker
    And this is what's on today's charter
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    As I find the tax system a little confusing, here are the wo websites for the two types of 'taxes' paid out of your wage:

    Income Tax

    and

    National Insurance

  • Richard_DastardlyRichard_Dastardly Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The only people in America who don't want some sort of universal health care coverage in the US are either covered under their employer, don't think they'll ever get sick, or are wealthy and healthy enough to afford private coverage. Otherwise, it's damn scary being out there without health insurance. Hell, before I was covered I had a $1,500 bill from one visit to the ER.

    ಠ_ರೃ wrote: »
    cats are douches
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    The experiance is a pleasant one, NHS hospitals are far from pleasant, there dingy, cramped and you share a room with 11 other patients with at least 3 of them throwing up/coughing/bleeding/suffering, which, OK isn't there fault, but its not nice to share a tiny uncomfortable room on a gurney with them when your trying to get better yourself.

    So I'd like to confirm: in the NHS, examination rooms are shared with up to 11 other people? Is that right? Is this only in emergency or in general hospital admissions too?

    There's a strong push in the US to make sure new hospitals are built with private single-patient examination rooms; partly to protect privacy, partly to reduce disease transmission.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch, man" fallacy.
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    japan wrote: »

    My view of private healthcare is perhaps coloured by the fact that most private options in the UK are cripplingly expensive (because they cater primarily to the rich, and using additional services to distinguish them from the NHS rather than the quality of care)

    This is not my experiance, everything I have had done privately has been in a much nicer environment, the staff have all been allot more pleasant (although to be fair, most of the staff in the NHS are not unpleasant, but there is a very "bare minimum" attitude) the Dr's seem more competent and are more personal (in the NHS, you could go 10 times and have 10 different GP's in my experiance).

    The experiance is a pleasant one, NHS hospitals are far from pleasant, there dingy, cramped and you share a room with 11 other patients with at least 3 of them throwing up/coughing/bleeding/suffering, which, OK isn't there fault, but its not nice to share a tiny uncomfortable room on a gurney with them when your trying to get better yourself.

    This is apposed to having a private room with a TV and a proper hospital bed (and a young attractive nurse who whilst high on drugs you fall in love with instantly <3 ).
    It's a hospital, not a resort.

  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    The experiance is a pleasant one, NHS hospitals are far from pleasant, there dingy, cramped and you share a room with 11 other patients with at least 3 of them throwing up/coughing/bleeding/suffering, which, OK isn't there fault, but its not nice to share a tiny uncomfortable room on a gurney with them when your trying to get better yourself.

    So I'd like to confirm: in the NHS, examination rooms are shared with up to 11 other people? Is that right? Is this only in emergency or in general hospital admissions too?

    There's a strong push in the US to make sure new hospitals are built with private single-patient examination rooms; partly to protect privacy, partly to reduce disease transmission.

    Ok. Exam rooms, in my experience have been single person. Wards are another matter. And yes, on a ward there will be lots of people and you probably won't get a private room. Then again, the care is good, and it's free.

    Yes, private hospitals are lovely, I've been treated in some (one, which was actually NHS but had been built as a private hospital and then sold). But not enough more of the lovely for me to think that the US system would ever be better.

  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    I would love to hear from somebody with a severe chronic condition (frequent chronic migraines, multiple sclerosis, etc).

    I'd also love to hear from people with experiences in the French, German, Swiss, and Australian systems.

    Also, UK & Canada folks: what's your effective average tax rate?

    We get raped. On top of the basic rate being around 20%, on anything earned over £35k you pay 40%ish on, and thats just income tax. I simply don't bother working for more hours than £35k a year, out of principal and laziness.

    You also pay tax on everything you purchase (Petrol has an added tax of around 75% I believe). We have national insurance which is also rape on top of income tax. Its very difficult to not get taxed on earnings outside of work unless you have mega mega bucks in which case you pay no tax because you'll have someone set you up some kind of off shore bank account deal.

    This kinda takes the piss as the mega wealthy pay no tax, but anyone who does well for them self in any other kind of way is severely punished for it.

    Wevs wrote:
    My man Willeh Willeh Willeh Dee
    Taggin up SE with a fat marker
    And this is what's on today's charter
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Azio wrote: »
    It's a hospital, not a resort.

    Why cant it be both?

    Wevs wrote:
    My man Willeh Willeh Willeh Dee
    Taggin up SE with a fat marker
    And this is what's on today's charter
  • KilroyKilroy The Architect Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    I would love to hear from somebody with a severe chronic condition (frequent chronic migraines, multiple sclerosis, etc).

    I'd also love to hear from people with experiences in the French, German, Swiss, and Australian systems.

    Also, UK & Canada folks: what's your effective average tax rate?

    We get raped. On top of the basic rate being around 20%, on anything earned over £35k you pay 40%ish on, and thats just income tax. I simply don't bother working for more hours than £35k a year, out of principal and laziness.

    You also pay tax on everything you purchase (Petrol has an added tax of around 75% I believe). We have national insurance which is also rape on top of income tax. Its very difficult to not get taxed on earnings outside of work unless you have mega mega bucks in which case you pay no tax because you'll have someone set you up some kind of off shore bank account deal.

    This kinda takes the piss as the mega wealthy pay no tax, but anyone who does well for them self in any other kind of way is severely punished for it.

    What a horrible punishment, being forced to contribute to the greater good of society.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Azio wrote: »
    It's a hospital, not a resort.

    Why cant it be both?

    It can, if you want to pay for it. Which is the crux of the whole thing, really.

  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    BobCesca wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    The experiance is a pleasant one, NHS hospitals are far from pleasant, there dingy, cramped and you share a room with 11 other patients with at least 3 of them throwing up/coughing/bleeding/suffering, which, OK isn't there fault, but its not nice to share a tiny uncomfortable room on a gurney with them when your trying to get better yourself.

    So I'd like to confirm: in the NHS, examination rooms are shared with up to 11 other people? Is that right? Is this only in emergency or in general hospital admissions too?

    There's a strong push in the US to make sure new hospitals are built with private single-patient examination rooms; partly to protect privacy, partly to reduce disease transmission.

    Ok. Exam rooms, in my experience have been single person. Wards are another matter. And yes, on a ward there will be lots of people and you probably won't get a private room. Then again, the care is good, and it's free.

    Yes, private hospitals are lovely, I've been treated in some (one, which was actually NHS but had been built as a private hospital and then sold). But not enough more of the lovely for me to think that the US system would ever be better.

    Umm, the last exam "room" I went to on the NHS was a big room with various curtains over head that could be pulled to and fro to create curtained off areas that were almost too small for me my friend and the Dr to be in. I could also hear everyone else's exam being carried out.

    I was talking about Wards yes, im not big on Hospital room terms. The GP's office is another matter, that has private rooms with a Dr in each, but again, you will be hard fetched to get the same Dr twice and have him remember who you are and the standard of care is "cost cutting bare minimum".

    Wevs wrote:
    My man Willeh Willeh Willeh Dee
    Taggin up SE with a fat marker
    And this is what's on today's charter
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Kilroy wrote: »
    What a horrible punishment, being forced to contribute to the greater good of society.
    What have healthy people ever done for him anyway?

  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »

    Umm, the last exam "room" I went to on the NHS was a big room with various curtains over head that could be pulled to and fro to create curtained off areas that were almost too small for me my friend and the Dr to be in. I could also hear everyone else's exam being carried out.

    I've been to a number of hospitals for a number of exams over the last three years, every single exam had me get my own room.

  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    The GP's office is another matter, that has private rooms with a Dr in each, but again, you will be hard fetched to get the same Dr twice and have him remember who you are and the standard of care is "cost cutting bare minimum".

    Where do you live? This has never been my experience, unless I needed to see the GP as an emergency patient. I get to see the same GP, who remembers who I am, and I always book double appointments (hypochondriac who is actually ill here), though my GPs have in the past been prepared to push back other appointments if there is something serious (or once, stayed later at work so that I could come back and we could discuss things for a while).

    I mean, these things do differ in different parts of the country and under the different helath care systems (England and Scotland have a few noticable difference), but it's not been that bad in the last 10-15 years.

  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Kilroy wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    I would love to hear from somebody with a severe chronic condition (frequent chronic migraines, multiple sclerosis, etc).

    I'd also love to hear from people with experiences in the French, German, Swiss, and Australian systems.

    Also, UK & Canada folks: what's your effective average tax rate?

    We get raped. On top of the basic rate being around 20%, on anything earned over £35k you pay 40%ish on, and thats just income tax. I simply don't bother working for more hours than £35k a year, out of principal and laziness.

    You also pay tax on everything you purchase (Petrol has an added tax of around 75% I believe). We have national insurance which is also rape on top of income tax. Its very difficult to not get taxed on earnings outside of work unless you have mega mega bucks in which case you pay no tax because you'll have someone set you up some kind of off shore bank account deal.

    This kinda takes the piss as the mega wealthy pay no tax, but anyone who does well for them self in any other kind of way is severely punished for it.

    What a horrible punishment, being forced to contribute to the greater good of society.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1077401/The-jobless-couple-10-children-rake-32-000-year-benefits--STILL-arent-happy.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3160307/Mother-gets-170000-a-year-in-benefits-to-live-in-1.2m-house.html

    ;-)

    Wevs wrote:
    My man Willeh Willeh Willeh Dee
    Taggin up SE with a fat marker
    And this is what's on today's charter
  • NartwakNartwak Registered User
    edited October 2008
    "There is no such thing as society." - Margaret Thatcher, Willeh Dee

    Spoiler:
  • Willeh DeeWilleh Dee Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Quid wrote: »
    Kilroy wrote: »
    What a horrible punishment, being forced to contribute to the greater good of society.
    What have healthy people ever done for him anyway?

    I have never had a problem paying my fair share, I just highly dispute what a fair share is.

    Wevs wrote:
    My man Willeh Willeh Willeh Dee
    Taggin up SE with a fat marker
    And this is what's on today's charter
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Kilroy wrote: »
    Willeh Dee wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    I would love to hear from somebody with a severe chronic condition (frequent chronic migraines, multiple sclerosis, etc).

    I'd also love to hear from people with experiences in the French, German, Swiss, and Australian systems.

    Also, UK & Canada folks: what's your effective average tax rate?

    We get raped. On top of the basic rate being around 20%, on anything earned over £35k you pay 40%ish on, and thats just income tax. I simply don't bother working for more hours than £35k a year, out of principal and laziness.

    You also pay tax on everything you purchase (Petrol has an added tax of around 75% I believe). We have national insurance which is also rape on top of income tax. Its very difficult to not get taxed on earnings outside of work unless you have mega mega bucks in which case you pay no tax because you'll have someone set you up some kind of off shore bank account deal.

    This kinda takes the piss as the mega wealthy pay no tax, but anyone who does well for them self in any other kind of way is severely punished for it.

    What a horrible punishment, being forced to contribute to the greater good of society.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1077401/The-jobless-couple-10-children-rake-32-000-year-benefits--STILL-arent-happy.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3160307/Mother-gets-170000-a-year-in-benefits-to-live-in-1.2m-house.html

    ;-)

    You've just quoted the daily mail and the telegraph.

    My suspicions of your political leanings and susceptability to media propaganda and rumour-mongering have been confirmed.

«1345678
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