And the NHS avoiding surgery for tonsilitis is also about not using general anaesthetics needlessly.
This, this right here, this is my problem with the NHS, bare minimum. You shouldn't have to try and avoid things when it comes to health care because your trying to be very stingy with the budget, if you are, something isn't working out right.
I waited over 30 months for a tonsillectomy in the US due to our shitty health care system. And I had to yell and bitch out an insurance company rep over the phone to make it was covered.
Regardless of whether your coverage is private or public, unless you're paying for all your medical expenses with cold hard cash, there will be some bean counter chained to some desk somewhere who will look at your paperwork and try to find budgetary corners he can cut at the expense of your health.
This. This.THIS.
Do people understand this? Private insurance companies have people in place to fuck you over. Basically, would you rather have someone behind that desk who is trained to say "yes" or "no" based on a list of criteria? (Gov't) Or someone behind that desk who is paid to say "no" no matter what and give you the runaround for as long as possible (woo free market!)?
The bottom line is, one of the big reasons health care costs are so high in the US without us getting better care for it is that something like 30% of that is spent on the bureaucracy that exists only to fuck you over. Somebody ends up paying for it in the end, but in the meantime a bunch of money gets spent shuffling it around. Also that time wasted can lead to even more costs. Paying for Feral's fucking tonsillectomy is a lot cheaper than paying for the ER care required if it turns into a life-threatening infection.
Is there any kind of regulator for insurance in the US? Over here, people can complain to the FOS, and their decisions are binding, so it's really hard for a UK insurance company to egregiously fuck people over.
This is the case for people at risk, old people etc etc. From what I was told its perfectly fine to use on healthy young people.
You need better sources telling you stuff.
Like 3 different private practice surgeons and a NHS GP? OK.
I'm in the navy. Our ships our powered with love. Trust me.
Good old fashioned, dependable man love.
Find me 2 of your ship mates to tell me the same thing, and someone else who is completely impartial and is paid from another source, and it is in his or her interest to tell the truth and give good advice, and I will believe you.
(your ship sounds fantastic, good for you bumboys out in the sea!)
Tax for the Rebuilding of Eastern Germany - 1.2%
Church Tax - 1.7%
What are these things? (if you don't mind explaining them)
The first one was introduced after the German reunification (which was 15 years ago) to pay for rebuilding all that was left FUBAR from the socialist planned economy. Which basically means all infrastructure like roads, telecommunications and so on.
The second one is well, church tax. The two major christian confessions (roman catholic and protestant) managed to get the gubmint to collect money for them (don't ask me why or how), so if you belong to one of those two churches, you have to pay it.
Centurion on
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
This is the case for people at risk, old people etc etc. From what I was told its perfectly fine to use on healthy young people.
You need better sources telling you stuff.
Like 3 different private practice surgeons and a NHS GP? OK.
I'm in the navy. Our ships our powered with love. Trust me.
Good old fashioned, dependable man love.
Find me 2 of your ship mates to tell me the same thing, and someone else who is completely impartial and is paid from another source, and it is in his or her interest to tell the truth and give good advice, and I will believe you.
(your ship sounds fantastic, good for you bumboys out in the sea!)
I think you're confusing "safest for people who are young and healthy" with "safe for people that are young and healthy"
The overall complication rate with anesthetics is about .58 per 1000, for people 18-44
that's not BAD, that's pretty safe, but it's not SUPER either.
I think you're confusing "safest for people who are young and healthy" with "safe for people that are young and healthy"
The overall complication rate with anesthetics is about .58 per 1000, for people 18-44
that's not BAD, that's pretty safe, but it's not SUPER either.
Yeah, any doctor who told a patient that general anesthesia was "perfectly safe" or "perfectly fine" would be at legitimate risk of a malpractice suit in the US.
That said, the biggest risk factor with anesthesia in the young and healthy is that their stomach might not be completely empty - which is sometimes the patient's fault (you were supposed to fast, dumbass) or sometimes not (you need to operate to remove a piece of metal from somebody's chest cavity from a car accident, there's no way to know when they last ate). If the patient is young, healthy, not having bowel surgery, and did the proper pre-surgical preparations, including fasting, the risks of anesthesia are really, really low.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Also, giving out free health care to non citizens who have come here just to scab off of the NHS, yea, great for tax paying British citizens.
Non-citizen =|= Non-taxpayer, genius. Lots of non-citizens live in the UK and pay taxes from their legitimate Jobs. The American woman mentioned earlier, who couldnt go back to the USA for medical reasons? She probably has a british job, where she pays british taxes. Is she not entitled to British Health care? Its not as easy to scam free health care as you think it is.
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Tax for the Rebuilding of Eastern Germany - 1.2%
Church Tax - 1.7%
What are these things? (if you don't mind explaining them)
The first one was introduced after the German reunification (which was 15 years ago) to pay for rebuilding all that was left FUBAR from the socialist planned economy. Which basically means all infrastructure like roads, telecommunications and so on.
The second one is well, church tax. The two major christian confessions (roman catholic and protestant) managed to get the gubmint to collect money for them (don't ask me why or how), so if you belong to one of those two churches, you have to pay it.
Wow. That's pretty amazing. The Churches don't trust the parishioners or what? And how do they deal with the problem of free riders (like, do you get a little card that you have to show to the deacon?)?
Also, giving out free health care to non citizens who have come here just to scab off of the NHS, yea, great for tax paying British citizens.
Non-citizen =|= Non-taxpayer, genius. Lots of non-citizens live in the UK and pay taxes from their legitimate Jobs. The American woman mentioned earlier, who couldnt go back to the USA for medical reasons? She probably has a british job, where she pays british taxes.
Yup. Came over on a student Visa, paid fees to a UK university, and now pays taxes from her UK job.
Wow. That's pretty amazing. The Churches don't trust the parishioners or what? And how do they deal with the problem of free riders (like, do you get a little card that you have to show to the deacon?)?
I have no idea why the government does it, actually. I guess the two major churches have strong lobbies. If you go to church once every once in a while without actually belonging to it formally, I don't think anyone takes note and I do think that many people who have left the church still go on christmas, etc. But if you left the church and then want to marry or have your children baptized, they will notice, obviously.
Works the same in Denmark, if you aren't paying church tax you have to pay for the priests/churches time out of your own pocket, if you pay it you won't be charged for the services. Whether you pay gets checked when you try to book funerals, weedings or similiar things.
It is free to attend sunday morning services but beyond that you need to pay.
I personally don't pay church tax because I am a athiest but then again I have no need of the churches services so everything is well.
Church tax is 1,0% here. I paid a grand total of 300DKK ($60) in church tax before I left the church (I definitly spent more than 300DKK worth of their time and stuff before leaving, what with confirmation, being bapthized and so forth, so that's not a problem).
EDIT: The funeral thing is based upon the payment status of the dead dude, not the one trying to book a funeral btw.
I registered on the forum just to answer this thread
Since it seems no one answered about the french healthcare system, i'll do it
How do you feel about your system?
I'm quite happy with our health care system. There are points that can be improved of course, but overall it's a good system.
Would you trade it for the current US system of private insurance?
Not for all the gold in the world From what we hear here, in France, about US healthcare is that when you arrive at the hospital, they first ask you for your crredit card number before checking if you're ok
I'm not sure if it's real or urban legend, but it's a bit scary i must admit.
What do you like about your system?
You can walk in a hospital emergency room, you'll be treated. Even if you're not french. ER Doctors heal first and ask questions about paying after (and from what I know, if after being treated it appears you're not french and broke, state is covering for you)
Depending on your income, if you're below a certain level, you have acces to a second type of healcare insurance that will cover for 100% of your fare.
If you've got a high or average income, then the healthcare does not cover 100%, but what you have left to pay for yourself is not that much.
What do you hate about it?
Some of the treatements are really badly reimbursed. For example, if you go see a dentist, if he cure a cavity, it'll be reimbursed almost 100%. But if you get yourself some "crowns" to put on top a killed teeth, you'll get only like 5 or 10% reimbursed.
For those thing, you can have a complementary healthcare, you can subscribe to it as a individual or through your work if they offer one.
Other thing I hate is that the system has a huge deficit. But contrary of what people believe, it is not due to reimbursing medicine but mostly because of taxes exonaration offered to big companies.
As for how much taxes I pay, it depends on your income. But to sum it quickly:
On income : you pay 24% of your gross salary as taxes each month when you're paid
Each year you then pay some taxes on what you earned, calculation are a bit complex but it is usually around 1 or 1 and a half month of net salary.
Your employer also pay taxes, usually around 40% on your income
Exemple : your employer gives you 2000 € gross each month. On those 2000€, you will have 1480€ wired on your bank account. And it will cost 2800€ to your company.
Then, each end of year, you'll have to pay around 1000-1500€ of taxes (but if you have childrens, etc, you pay less taxes)
Then we have a VAT of 19.6% on almost everything, 21.6% on luxuary goods, and 5% on food.
And last but not least, you pay taxes if you own a house, if you rent a flat, if you posses a TV, or if you have more than a certain amount of money (but I can't tell you how much, something like 1 000 000 euros)
For example, by renting a flat and having a tv, I have to pay 600 euros this year (just received my paper)
Of course, all those taxes are for health, but also retirement, unemployement, well, for everything
I registered on the forum just to answer this thread
Since it seems no one answered about the french healthcare system, i'll do it
Some of the treatements are really badly reimbursed. For example, if you go see a dentist, if he cure a cavity, it'll be reimbursed almost 100%. But if you get yourself some "crowns" to put on top a killed teeth, you'll get only like 5 or 10% reimbursed.
Comparatively, having the national system cover any dental work at all is pretty awesome. In Canada, our system doesn't cover routine dental work.
Routine dental work and two preventive examinations per year are covered in Germany, but dental stuff is probably the area where our system only covers the bare minimum. E.g. if you need to have a cavity filled you can get it filled with metal for free, but you would have to pay the premium for a white plastic filling yourself.
I should point out that many Canadians have dental coverage through their employers. But if you work a part time job, or in a service industry, you basically have no coverage. I had to have a root canal and crown with no coverage and it cost me over $1000.
I should point out that many Canadians have dental coverage through their employers. But if you work a part time job, or in a service industry, you basically have no coverage. I had to have a root canal and crown with no coverage and it cost me over $1000.
If you got something like that done in Denmark you would probably have to expect to pay something like $2-3000 depending on where you go.
There is a good reason why every consumer guide in Denmark suggest that we travel abroad for dental care, even with airplane tickets and hotel rooms it's cheaper then getting it done here.
You can save on average about 50-70% of your dental bill as a dane just by going to Sweden or Germany.
From what we hear here, in France, about US healthcare is that when you arrive at the hospital, they first ask you for your crredit card number before checking if you're ok
I'm not sure if it's real or urban legend, but it's a bit scary i must admit.
That's a little bit of an exaggeration.
Emergency rooms will treat you regardless of your ability to pay, and if it's really critical they will treat you first and try to get your identity and payment information afterwards.
However, for non-emergency care, you usually have to pay a little bit up-front and you are billed for the remainder. If you fail to pay your bill in a certain timeframe - usually 3 to 6 months - the doctor or hospital will contact you to try to set up a payment plan. But if you can't arrange a payment plan, then they will send your bill to a collection agency, and if you simply can't pay your bill, they can wreck your credit rating.
The biggest problem with paying for emergency care here is how much it costs. Just going to an ER for a $5 shot of pain medication for a bad migraine can cost anywhere from $400 to $2000 depending on where you live and what hospital you go to. They have to recoup their losses from all the deadbeats who can't or don't pay somehow, and they do that basically by gouging the people who can.
However, a lot of doctors and hospitals know the system is messed up, and will bend over backwards to cut some of their fees or let you take months to pay off a debt. They're usually really open to negotiation here.
Other thing I hate is that the system has a huge deficit. But contrary of what people believe, it is not due to reimbursing medicine but mostly because of taxes exonaration offered to big companies.
Which companies get exoneration? Pharma companies? Big hospitals?
And last but not least, you pay taxes if you own a house, if you rent a flat, if you posses a TV, or if you have more than a certain amount of money (but I can't tell you how much, something like 1 000 000 euros)
For example, by renting a flat and having a tv, I have to pay 600 euros this year (just received my paper
Wow, you have to pay taxes on rentals? That's pretty crazy.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I think the only "tax" I have to pay that I loathe, literally LOATHE, is the fact that I have to pay 2190DKK ($400) a year for a single public service channel and I don't even watch tv. Yet I am forced to pay it because I A: Own an internet line >256kbit and B: Own a device with a TV tuner in it.
I do have one, as an obligation from my work.
Sometime, companies get a deal from an insurance company as follow : everyone of their employee must subscribe, and in exchange the insurance policy give good reimbursing rates.
As a matter of fact i liked it. When I had my 4 crown done, I had to pay 1000 euros each. Helathcare gave me 100€ and insurance 900€.
Which companies get exoneration? Pharma companies? Big hospitals?
no, nothing to do with it. Say for example you're head of a big company like general motors. You come see french governement and say "I wish to make a factory in france". Governement will tell you "ok, welcome, for the next 5 years, you don't have to pay this tax, this tax and this tax because we are so happy you come create jobs here".
And then, before the end of the 5 years, you either go back to US or go to china. But overall you took lot of money from governement and basically ran with it
But our current governement rather run after poor folk who get his aspirin reimbursed two times rather than big company that rips millions out of the financing of healthcare system.
Wow, you have to pay taxes on rentals? That's pretty crazy.
Yep, if you live in one place that you rent on the 1st of january, you need to pay a tax that is fixed by your city and goes to the city (not to the state).
If you own a house, you need to pay a tax for it if you own it on the 1st of january to the city your house is in.
I have paper in front of me. I paid 544 euros, 344 of which goes to my city, and 200 go to the "departement" (it's an administrative area, something like your "county" i think)
I think the only "tax" I have to pay that I loathe, literally LOATHE, is the fact that I have to pay 2190DKK ($400) a year for a single public service channel and I don't even watch tv. Yet I am forced to pay it because I A: Own an internet line >256kbit and B: Own a device with a TV tuner in it.
Similar in Germany. It's 200 Euros per year for me, but the quality of our public TV channels is quite good in my opinion and they also have good news services and such on the internet. So even though I rarely watch TV, it's fine with me. However, I do loathe the administration that collects that fee, because they are really aggressive about it.
I think the only "tax" I have to pay that I loathe, literally LOATHE, is the fact that I have to pay 2190DKK ($400) a year for a single public service channel and I don't even watch tv. Yet I am forced to pay it because I A: Own an internet line >256kbit and B: Own a device with a TV tuner in it.
Similar in Germany. It's 200 Euros per year for me, but the quality of our public TV channels is quite good in my opinion and they also have good news services and such on the internet. So even though I rarely watch TV, it's fine with me. However, I do loathe the administration that collects that fee, because they are really aggressive about it.
Honestly it's probably more the administration then the fee itself for me aswell.
The have a distinctly RIAA like feel about them, they are 100% sure that anyone not paying are cheating lying bastards and they harrass them as much as they can.
They have even made up a special term for non-payers "sortseer" (directly translated it means "black viewer").
Honestly it's probably more the administration then the fee itself for me aswell.
The have a distinctly RIAA like feel about them, they are 100% sure that anyone not paying are cheating lying bastards and they harrass them as much as they can.
They have even made up a special term for non-payers "sortseer" (directly translated it means "black viewer").
They must have formed some sort of pan-european public tv channel fee extortion cartel then, because in Germany they have produced a massive ad campaign that is based on the same play of words. I'm slightly scared now.
no, nothing to do with it. Say for example you're head of a big company like general motors. You come see french governement and say "I wish to make a factory in france". Governement will tell you "ok, welcome, for the next 5 years, you don't have to pay this tax, this tax and this tax because we are so happy you come create jobs here".
And then, before the end of the 5 years, you either go back to US or go to china. But overall you took lot of money from governement and basically ran with it
But our current governement rather run after poor folk who get his aspirin reimbursed two times rather than big company that rips millions out of the financing of healthcare system.
Oh, I see.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I know the conversation has moved on somewhat, but here's my experience... Diagnosed with Type 1 (juvenile, as opposed to fatty) diabetes a few years ago (when I was 23) by a GP I paid $10 to see. Tests cost nothing.
Went to the emergency room and waited 5 hours to see a doctor. Slept in emergency because there were no beds available (fair enough, it was late at night) and needed constant supervision while they dealt with my blood sugars.
Moved to a spare bed the next day. Stayed there for about 5 days recovering. Ate well. Watched tv a lot. Had the room to myself until my last day.
Was given medication and a blood glucose monitor and some education with regular follow-ups at a clinic.
Total cost: $0.
And it only costs me about $100 a year to get my insulin, and I need 2 prescriptions per year.
I don't know what I'd be like if I lived in the US, but suffice it to say, I'm fucking glad I don't.
In the U.S.:
My dad has developed type 2 diabetes (the fatty type), and didn't say anything about it to a doctor for over a year because he didn't want it to affect his chances of getting health insurance (I believe we were switching insurance at the time or something like that), so he just went untreated for over a year, .
I think the only "tax" I have to pay that I loathe, literally LOATHE, is the fact that I have to pay 2190DKK ($400) a year for a single public service channel and I don't even watch tv. Yet I am forced to pay it because I A: Own an internet line >256kbit and B: Own a device with a TV tuner in it.
Oh god, TV license fee. Yeah, I'll rant about that some other time. :P
Echo on
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kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
You need a combined system, where emergency care and actually curing diseases is the realm of the private company, offering this sort of thing at reasonable rates to everyone
Died fucking laughing, had to post without reading the rest of the thread. Companies give reasonable rates on stuff?
REASONABLE?
edit:
Dislike the system here since our minsiter of health took a lesson in New Labour, but they didn't completely dismantle it yet.
Biggest issue is our mental health care, handicapped care, rare afflictions, etc. where they could cut easily without the general populace seeing the results.
Would vote for anyone proposing more socialism economicaly, with outsourced quality control.
Ahh, the exact UK system, our NHS is now bankrupt. That was a fun little experiment in more socialism with outsourced quality control wasn't it.
Universal Health Care - Chronic injuries, Disability allowances, anything which cannot be cured (asthma etc). This is hugely expensive, and the companies have to charge their absurd rates because the people who want their services the most, are these people who they can't afford to insure.
Private Care - Emergency and curing diseases. Short term care is cheap, and you want the best possible drugs to make you better. UHC can't do this, because its too expensive. Only through private care where you can encourage competition for low rates and high quality can you do this.
Private health insurance fails because of the price of Chronic conditions. Remove that from them and you can get a system where a regulated market can offer fair prices, for quality services.
So your point is that if we take the sickest people out of the system, the system for making people not sick works? Unless you're making an argument for socializing chronic medical treatment, you don't make much sense.
Private health insurance fails because inserting the profit motive and a competitive marketplace creates incredible pressures to keep costs down. It's much easier for private insurers to keep costs down by unfairly denying treatment to customers or underpaying customers who won't be able to effectively assert their rights (i.e. cost of litigation > amount insurance company has screwed you for). Even the things they can do for cost management in a decentralized medical system will be skewed towards pressuring doctors into undertreating their patients.
That's not to say everything insurance companies do are bad, and there are agent-principal problems with universal health care too. But if you had to choose between two evils, UHC seems like the lesser of the two.
Wow, you have to pay taxes on rentals? That's pretty crazy.
Yep, if you live in one place that you rent on the 1st of january, you need to pay a tax that is fixed by your city and goes to the city (not to the state).
If you own a house, you need to pay a tax for it if you own it on the 1st of january to the city your house is in.
I have paper in front of me. I paid 544 euros, 344 of which goes to my city, and 200 go to the "departement" (it's an administrative area, something like your "county" i think)
Is this tax the same as the British council tax? So it would be paying for your water supply, rubbish collection, street lighting, local road maintenance etc?
Is this tax the same as the British council tax? So it would be paying for your water supply, rubbish collection, street lighting, local road maintenance etc?
Yeah sort of. Since some years now, cities have been more and more responsible in France. And as a matter of fact, they get more and more taxes that used to go to the state.
So yes, it goes for street lighting, rubbish collection, road maitnenance, school for children under 11 years old, city police, public transportation, etc
I know the conversation has moved on somewhat, but here's my experience... Diagnosed with Type 1 (juvenile, as opposed to fatty) diabetes a few years ago (when I was 23) by a GP I paid $10 to see. Tests cost nothing.
Went to the emergency room and waited 5 hours to see a doctor. Slept in emergency because there were no beds available (fair enough, it was late at night) and needed constant supervision while they dealt with my blood sugars.
Moved to a spare bed the next day. Stayed there for about 5 days recovering. Ate well. Watched tv a lot. Had the room to myself until my last day.
Was given medication and a blood glucose monitor and some education with regular follow-ups at a clinic.
Total cost: $0.
And it only costs me about $100 a year to get my insulin, and I need 2 prescriptions per year.
I don't know what I'd be like if I lived in the US, but suffice it to say, I'm fucking glad I don't.
In the U.S.:
My dad has developed type 2 diabetes (the fatty type), and didn't say anything about it to a doctor for over a year because he didn't want it to affect his chances of getting health insurance (I believe we were switching insurance at the time or something like that), so he just went untreated for over a year, .
That is so fucking awful, and that one of the most powerful and wealthy nations can be full of stories like this is shocking to me. And I take it getting health insurance doesn't require any, uh, tests then?
I actually have private health cover here. I'm not even sure why I pay for it. I've never used it. (I think I can claim some basic dental work, or it at least brings the cost of dental down significantly, or something. Will be useful when I get my wisdom teeth out.) But I figure it's good to have, because it only costs me $60ish a month for 'medium' coverage and I've got a chronic illness which might mean it will come in useful some day.
Ahh, the exact UK system, our NHS is now bankrupt. That was a fun little experiment in more socialism with outsourced quality control wasn't it
.....snip..... Private health insurance fails because of the price of Chronic conditions. Remove that from them and you can get a system where a regulated market can offer fair prices, for quality services.
So your point is that if we take the sickest people out of the system, the system for making people not sick works? Unless you're making an argument for socializing chronic medical treatment, you don't make much sense.
Private health insurance fails because inserting the profit motive and a competitive marketplace creates incredible pressures to keep costs down. It's much easier for private insurers to keep costs down by unfairly denying treatment to customers or underpaying customers who won't be able to effectively assert their rights (i.e. cost of litigation > amount insurance company has screwed you for). Even the things they can do for cost management in a decentralized medical system will be skewed towards pressuring doctors into undertreating their patients.
That's not to say everything insurance companies do are bad, and there are agent-principal problems with universal health care too. But if you had to choose between two evils, UHC seems like the lesser of the two.
I completely agree. Not to mention that the poorest people, who likely can't afford private insurance or will be offered low coverage cheapo substitutes, are also most likely to get sick.
Just because you catch the flu and bronchitis every winter doesn't mean it's actually chronic. Not to mention the results of poor/plain bad nutrition, which also occcur more amongst the poor, it's not all diabetes.
And as for the NHS, it's not the only UK government project from the eighties that went wrong. However whereas the informatisation clusterfuck gave the world ITIL, the NHS disaster geve the UK... nothing.
No lessons learned. Zip.
So perhaps the outsourced quality control failed because of the same political pressures that prevent a decent postmortem 25 years later.
To be clear: I think politicians should stick to parliament and government should be left to people with skillsets outside of the machiavellian realm.
Civil servant technocrats ftw!
Wow, you have to pay taxes on rentals? That's pretty crazy.
Yep, if you live in one place that you rent on the 1st of january, you need to pay a tax that is fixed by your city and goes to the city (not to the state).
If you own a house, you need to pay a tax for it if you own it on the 1st of january to the city your house is in.
I have paper in front of me. I paid 544 euros, 344 of which goes to my city, and 200 go to the "departement" (it's an administrative area, something like your "county" i think)
and tv tax is 116 euros
In the US, if you rent, the property owner has to pay the tax and often includes it in your rent (and makes a profit off it). I can see less of a situation to gouge the price in France, but it seems like your rental properties are government owned or something. And it looks like your rent is comparable to mine so I'd wager a guess as to your actual rent is much, much lower than mine, but tacking on the yearly taxes and they're equitable.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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BobCescaIs a girlBirmingham, UKRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
I think our council tax is about £100 a month (for 10 months) at the moment, which is much better than the old place which was about £300-£350 a month. Council tax is decided based on the value of the property rather than ow much money the people living there have, which is sometimes a bit of a bugger. TV license is about £120 a year (I DD it, it's about £10-£11 a month).
Honestly, we bitch about how bad things are in the UK but only because we haven't actually experienced the alternatives.
I would much rather have your system. As someone who's gone through it and felt it's economic toll. It'd be nice to eliminate that worry, or be able to go to the doctor when I'm sick so I can get better and make more tax money so everyone can benefit.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Is this tax the same as the British council tax? So it would be paying for your water supply, rubbish collection, street lighting, local road maintenance etc?
Yeah sort of. Since some years now, cities have been more and more responsible in France. And as a matter of fact, they get more and more taxes that used to go to the state.
So yes, it goes for street lighting, rubbish collection, road maitnenance, school for children under 11 years old, city police, public transportation, etc
So that tax includes the water bill and the rubbish bill?
JebusUD on
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
Posts
This. This. THIS.
Do people understand this? Private insurance companies have people in place to fuck you over. Basically, would you rather have someone behind that desk who is trained to say "yes" or "no" based on a list of criteria? (Gov't) Or someone behind that desk who is paid to say "no" no matter what and give you the runaround for as long as possible (woo free market!)?
The bottom line is, one of the big reasons health care costs are so high in the US without us getting better care for it is that something like 30% of that is spent on the bureaucracy that exists only to fuck you over. Somebody ends up paying for it in the end, but in the meantime a bunch of money gets spent shuffling it around. Also that time wasted can lead to even more costs. Paying for Feral's fucking tonsillectomy is a lot cheaper than paying for the ER care required if it turns into a life-threatening infection.
That's how insurance works.
Mind you, those same people are also there to prevent FRAUD, but they're defrauding people themselves.
Find me 2 of your ship mates to tell me the same thing, and someone else who is completely impartial and is paid from another source, and it is in his or her interest to tell the truth and give good advice, and I will believe you.
(your ship sounds fantastic, good for you bumboys out in the sea!)
The first one was introduced after the German reunification (which was 15 years ago) to pay for rebuilding all that was left FUBAR from the socialist planned economy. Which basically means all infrastructure like roads, telecommunications and so on.
The second one is well, church tax. The two major christian confessions (roman catholic and protestant) managed to get the gubmint to collect money for them (don't ask me why or how), so if you belong to one of those two churches, you have to pay it.
The overall complication rate with anesthetics is about .58 per 1000, for people 18-44
that's not BAD, that's pretty safe, but it's not SUPER either.
I host a podcast about movies.
Yeah, any doctor who told a patient that general anesthesia was "perfectly safe" or "perfectly fine" would be at legitimate risk of a malpractice suit in the US.
That said, the biggest risk factor with anesthesia in the young and healthy is that their stomach might not be completely empty - which is sometimes the patient's fault (you were supposed to fast, dumbass) or sometimes not (you need to operate to remove a piece of metal from somebody's chest cavity from a car accident, there's no way to know when they last ate). If the patient is young, healthy, not having bowel surgery, and did the proper pre-surgical preparations, including fasting, the risks of anesthesia are really, really low.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Non-citizen =|= Non-taxpayer, genius. Lots of non-citizens live in the UK and pay taxes from their legitimate Jobs. The American woman mentioned earlier, who couldnt go back to the USA for medical reasons? She probably has a british job, where she pays british taxes. Is she not entitled to British Health care? Its not as easy to scam free health care as you think it is.
Wow. That's pretty amazing. The Churches don't trust the parishioners or what? And how do they deal with the problem of free riders (like, do you get a little card that you have to show to the deacon?)?
Yup. Came over on a student Visa, paid fees to a UK university, and now pays taxes from her UK job.
I have no idea why the government does it, actually. I guess the two major churches have strong lobbies. If you go to church once every once in a while without actually belonging to it formally, I don't think anyone takes note and I do think that many people who have left the church still go on christmas, etc. But if you left the church and then want to marry or have your children baptized, they will notice, obviously.
It is free to attend sunday morning services but beyond that you need to pay.
I personally don't pay church tax because I am a athiest but then again I have no need of the churches services so everything is well.
Church tax is 1,0% here. I paid a grand total of 300DKK ($60) in church tax before I left the church (I definitly spent more than 300DKK worth of their time and stuff before leaving, what with confirmation, being bapthized and so forth, so that's not a problem).
EDIT: The funeral thing is based upon the payment status of the dead dude, not the one trying to book a funeral btw.
Since it seems no one answered about the french healthcare system, i'll do it
How do you feel about your system?
I'm quite happy with our health care system. There are points that can be improved of course, but overall it's a good system.
Would you trade it for the current US system of private insurance?
Not for all the gold in the world
I'm not sure if it's real or urban legend, but it's a bit scary i must admit.
What do you like about your system?
You can walk in a hospital emergency room, you'll be treated. Even if you're not french. ER Doctors heal first and ask questions about paying after (and from what I know, if after being treated it appears you're not french and broke, state is covering for you)
Depending on your income, if you're below a certain level, you have acces to a second type of healcare insurance that will cover for 100% of your fare.
If you've got a high or average income, then the healthcare does not cover 100%, but what you have left to pay for yourself is not that much.
What do you hate about it?
Some of the treatements are really badly reimbursed. For example, if you go see a dentist, if he cure a cavity, it'll be reimbursed almost 100%. But if you get yourself some "crowns" to put on top a killed teeth, you'll get only like 5 or 10% reimbursed.
For those thing, you can have a complementary healthcare, you can subscribe to it as a individual or through your work if they offer one.
Other thing I hate is that the system has a huge deficit. But contrary of what people believe, it is not due to reimbursing medicine but mostly because of taxes exonaration offered to big companies.
As for how much taxes I pay, it depends on your income. But to sum it quickly:
On income : you pay 24% of your gross salary as taxes each month when you're paid
Each year you then pay some taxes on what you earned, calculation are a bit complex but it is usually around 1 or 1 and a half month of net salary.
Your employer also pay taxes, usually around 40% on your income
Exemple : your employer gives you 2000 € gross each month. On those 2000€, you will have 1480€ wired on your bank account. And it will cost 2800€ to your company.
Then, each end of year, you'll have to pay around 1000-1500€ of taxes (but if you have childrens, etc, you pay less taxes)
Then we have a VAT of 19.6% on almost everything, 21.6% on luxuary goods, and 5% on food.
And last but not least, you pay taxes if you own a house, if you rent a flat, if you posses a TV, or if you have more than a certain amount of money (but I can't tell you how much, something like 1 000 000 euros)
For example, by renting a flat and having a tv, I have to pay 600 euros this year (just received my paper)
Of course, all those taxes are for health, but also retirement, unemployement, well, for everything
Hope that helps
Comparatively, having the national system cover any dental work at all is pretty awesome. In Canada, our system doesn't cover routine dental work.
Same here in Sweden, and there's been a fair amount of rumbling about how healthy teeth turned into a question of class.
EDIT:
If you got something like that done in Denmark you would probably have to expect to pay something like $2-3000 depending on where you go.
There is a good reason why every consumer guide in Denmark suggest that we travel abroad for dental care, even with airplane tickets and hotel rooms it's cheaper then getting it done here.
You can save on average about 50-70% of your dental bill as a dane just by going to Sweden or Germany.
I'm glad you posted because the French healthcare system is something I'm very curious about. I'd like to compare notes though.
That's a little bit of an exaggeration.
Emergency rooms will treat you regardless of your ability to pay, and if it's really critical they will treat you first and try to get your identity and payment information afterwards.
However, for non-emergency care, you usually have to pay a little bit up-front and you are billed for the remainder. If you fail to pay your bill in a certain timeframe - usually 3 to 6 months - the doctor or hospital will contact you to try to set up a payment plan. But if you can't arrange a payment plan, then they will send your bill to a collection agency, and if you simply can't pay your bill, they can wreck your credit rating.
The biggest problem with paying for emergency care here is how much it costs. Just going to an ER for a $5 shot of pain medication for a bad migraine can cost anywhere from $400 to $2000 depending on where you live and what hospital you go to. They have to recoup their losses from all the deadbeats who can't or don't pay somehow, and they do that basically by gouging the people who can.
However, a lot of doctors and hospitals know the system is messed up, and will bend over backwards to cut some of their fees or let you take months to pay off a debt. They're usually really open to negotiation here.
Do you have complementary healthcare?
How do you like it?
Which companies get exoneration? Pharma companies? Big hospitals?
Wow, you have to pay taxes on rentals? That's pretty crazy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I do have one, as an obligation from my work.
Sometime, companies get a deal from an insurance company as follow : everyone of their employee must subscribe, and in exchange the insurance policy give good reimbursing rates.
As a matter of fact i liked it. When I had my 4 crown done, I had to pay 1000 euros each. Helathcare gave me 100€ and insurance 900€.
Every employe pays 65€ a month for this.
no, nothing to do with it. Say for example you're head of a big company like general motors. You come see french governement and say "I wish to make a factory in france". Governement will tell you "ok, welcome, for the next 5 years, you don't have to pay this tax, this tax and this tax because we are so happy you come create jobs here".
And then, before the end of the 5 years, you either go back to US or go to china. But overall you took lot of money from governement and basically ran with it
But our current governement rather run after poor folk who get his aspirin reimbursed two times rather than big company that rips millions out of the financing of healthcare system.
Yep, if you live in one place that you rent on the 1st of january, you need to pay a tax that is fixed by your city and goes to the city (not to the state).
If you own a house, you need to pay a tax for it if you own it on the 1st of january to the city your house is in.
I have paper in front of me. I paid 544 euros, 344 of which goes to my city, and 200 go to the "departement" (it's an administrative area, something like your "county" i think)
and tv tax is 116 euros
Similar in Germany. It's 200 Euros per year for me, but the quality of our public TV channels is quite good in my opinion and they also have good news services and such on the internet. So even though I rarely watch TV, it's fine with me. However, I do loathe the administration that collects that fee, because they are really aggressive about it.
Honestly it's probably more the administration then the fee itself for me aswell.
The have a distinctly RIAA like feel about them, they are 100% sure that anyone not paying are cheating lying bastards and they harrass them as much as they can.
They have even made up a special term for non-payers "sortseer" (directly translated it means "black viewer").
They must have formed some sort of pan-european public tv channel fee extortion cartel then, because in Germany they have produced a massive ad campaign that is based on the same play of words. I'm slightly scared now.
Oh, I see.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
In the U.S.:
My dad has developed type 2 diabetes (the fatty type), and didn't say anything about it to a doctor for over a year because he didn't want it to affect his chances of getting health insurance (I believe we were switching insurance at the time or something like that), so he just went untreated for over a year,
Oh god, TV license fee. Yeah, I'll rant about that some other time. :P
So your point is that if we take the sickest people out of the system, the system for making people not sick works? Unless you're making an argument for socializing chronic medical treatment, you don't make much sense.
Private health insurance fails because inserting the profit motive and a competitive marketplace creates incredible pressures to keep costs down. It's much easier for private insurers to keep costs down by unfairly denying treatment to customers or underpaying customers who won't be able to effectively assert their rights (i.e. cost of litigation > amount insurance company has screwed you for). Even the things they can do for cost management in a decentralized medical system will be skewed towards pressuring doctors into undertreating their patients.
That's not to say everything insurance companies do are bad, and there are agent-principal problems with universal health care too. But if you had to choose between two evils, UHC seems like the lesser of the two.
Is this tax the same as the British council tax? So it would be paying for your water supply, rubbish collection, street lighting, local road maintenance etc?
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
Yeah sort of. Since some years now, cities have been more and more responsible in France. And as a matter of fact, they get more and more taxes that used to go to the state.
So yes, it goes for street lighting, rubbish collection, road maitnenance, school for children under 11 years old, city police, public transportation, etc
That is so fucking awful, and that one of the most powerful and wealthy nations can be full of stories like this is shocking to me. And I take it getting health insurance doesn't require any, uh, tests then?
I actually have private health cover here. I'm not even sure why I pay for it. I've never used it. (I think I can claim some basic dental work, or it at least brings the cost of dental down significantly, or something. Will be useful when I get my wisdom teeth out.) But I figure it's good to have, because it only costs me $60ish a month for 'medium' coverage and I've got a chronic illness which might mean it will come in useful some day.
I completely agree. Not to mention that the poorest people, who likely can't afford private insurance or will be offered low coverage cheapo substitutes, are also most likely to get sick.
Just because you catch the flu and bronchitis every winter doesn't mean it's actually chronic. Not to mention the results of poor/plain bad nutrition, which also occcur more amongst the poor, it's not all diabetes.
And as for the NHS, it's not the only UK government project from the eighties that went wrong. However whereas the informatisation clusterfuck gave the world ITIL, the NHS disaster geve the UK... nothing.
No lessons learned. Zip.
So perhaps the outsourced quality control failed because of the same political pressures that prevent a decent postmortem 25 years later.
To be clear: I think politicians should stick to parliament and government should be left to people with skillsets outside of the machiavellian realm.
Civil servant technocrats ftw!
Though definitely Thatcherite attitudes in the 80s didn't help it any.
In the US, if you rent, the property owner has to pay the tax and often includes it in your rent (and makes a profit off it). I can see less of a situation to gouge the price in France, but it seems like your rental properties are government owned or something. And it looks like your rent is comparable to mine so I'd wager a guess as to your actual rent is much, much lower than mine, but tacking on the yearly taxes and they're equitable.
I would much rather have your system. As someone who's gone through it and felt it's economic toll. It'd be nice to eliminate that worry, or be able to go to the doctor when I'm sick so I can get better and make more tax money so everyone can benefit.
I'm willing to put my hand up and say this is probably me.
So that tax includes the water bill and the rubbish bill?
but they're listening to every word I say