Legend of the Seeker: Look upon me book continuity, and despair.

Daxon · November 2008

This thread has made me want to reread the first book of the series... I think I was too young to miss out on some of the humour that could have been derived from it. Like, I was pretty sickened by the demon rape, necrophilia and whatnot.

Though, to be fair, the TV show hasn't changed that much. It's got the overall plot down, though wasn't the evil dark wizard guy supposed to be Richard's grandfather (this confuses the fuck out of me). I also found the show quite funny to watch seeing how it's more like some kind of weird Matrix-FANTASY EDITION hybrid.

Page- · November 2008

Don't bother. I tried reading the first book just to get kicks out of how bad it was. That was fun for a while, but Goodkind's writing is just so, so foul, and you have to wade through pages of pointless text (this guy needs an editor like nobody else) just to get to the juicy bits of stupid. If somebody could edit them down to 300 pages of condensed dumb, it'd be a wonderful series.

Witch_Hunter_84 · November 2008

skyknyt wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Ranx wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

I loved the books, to me Terry Goodkind is a fucking literary master.

really? o_O

Yes

So . . . all you could see in the book was the rape and torture? You didn't read the parts that dealt with the beauty of the human spirit, the struggle to do the right thing in the face of insermounting evil, friendship, brotherhood, anything? No?

I honestly cannot tell if this is satire or not!

TG is such a bad writer that I'm at a loss to find words to describe it. I mean the first book is about his evil step brother trying to ban fire and no one thinking that this is a bad idea, then about 200 pages of rape-torture, child molestation, and beating up kids and whatnot (often it is the protaganists doing this). This is the first book, the one people say is "the good one" before it got all preachy.

Got news for you, if that's the good one the bad ones are somewhere on the negative quality scale.

Anyway, I was honestly hoping that this series was going to be a sort of slapstick trash fantasy Hercules take on the books, which could have been actually enjoyable. Taking them at face value just kind of misses anything in the realm of entertainment.

Listen, this kinda shit happens in the real world. There is injustice, rape, torture, tyranny, etc. The books also focus on friendship, honesty, justice, equality, true love, and brotherhood. You want something you can read all easy-like, go with Harry Potter. I like to read novels that hold up a mirror to the world and society.

Vladimir7 · November 2008

Daxon wrote: »

It's got the overall plot down, though wasn't the evil dark wizard guy supposed to be Richard's grandfather (this confuses the fuck out of me).

Spoiler:

Malyonsus · November 2008

Witch_Hunter, for my part, my problem with the books wasn't that they were overcoming evil or whatever, or that every book has some kind of sexual violence in it (heck, see G.R.R Martin). My problem was that the analogy to real life is ham fisted, and the representation of evil is misguided. The entire other continent is merely a mocking representation of socialism that is wildly off the mark. The books come across as heavy-handed and preachy.

I can write a book that is an analogy to real life issues, that doesn't mean my point has any merit or that my writing is any good.

Evil Multifarious · November 2008

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

skyknyt wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Ranx wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

I loved the books, to me Terry Goodkind is a fucking literary master.

really? o_O

Yes

So . . . all you could see in the book was the rape and torture? You didn't read the parts that dealt with the beauty of the human spirit, the struggle to do the right thing in the face of insermounting evil, friendship, brotherhood, anything? No?

I honestly cannot tell if this is satire or not!

TG is such a bad writer that I'm at a loss to find words to describe it. I mean the first book is about his evil step brother trying to ban fire and no one thinking that this is a bad idea, then about 200 pages of rape-torture, child molestation, and beating up kids and whatnot (often it is the protaganists doing this). This is the first book, the one people say is "the good one" before it got all preachy.

Got news for you, if that's the good one the bad ones are somewhere on the negative quality scale.

Anyway, I was honestly hoping that this series was going to be a sort of slapstick trash fantasy Hercules take on the books, which could have been actually enjoyable. Taking them at face value just kind of misses anything in the realm of entertainment.

Listen, this kinda shit happens in the real world. There is injustice, rape, torture, tyranny, etc. The books also focus on friendship, honesty, justice, equality, true love, and brotherhood. You want something you can read all easy-like, go with Harry Potter. I like to read novels that hold up a mirror to the world and society.

Goodkind's idea of injustice and evil is holding up a caricature of communism or tyranny and knocking it down. His whole series is a giant strawman.

You want novels that "hold up a mirror to the world?" I would suggest avoiding pop-fantasy books that consist of self-worship and ideological masturbation. Terry Goodkind is not a good author. You are perfectly free to find him entertaining, but to lord it over people and suggest they don't like it because they can't handle his depiction of evil? No, they can handle it; they just don't like his depiction of anything, because it is exceptionally wrongminded and idiotic. He is a crazy objectivist. This is not a tenable philosophy.

skyknyt · November 2008

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Listen, this kinda shit happens in the real world. There is injustice, rape, torture, tyranny, etc. The books also focus on friendship, honesty, justice, equality, true love, and brotherhood. You want something you can read all easy-like, go with Harry Potter. I like to read novels that hold up a mirror to the world and society.

I really don't want to Godwin the thread or anything, but even dudes like Hitler and Stalin didn't spend their free time molesting children and raping women while plotting with their villainous, child molesting underlings and their rape-torture BDSM squads roamed the country side. It is like a cartoon of "how evil can the evil be!" The world is not full of mustache twirling rapists wearing black and skulls plotting from vast complexes.

Meanwhile Richard Rahl literally goes around killing and maiming people under the aegis of "truth." I mean the dude kicks a little girl's face in for laughing at him.

GungHo · November 2008

skyknyt wrote: »

Meanwhile Richard Rahl literally goes around killing and maiming people under the aegis of "truth." I mean the dude kicks a little girl's face in for laughing at him.

George W. Bush with a big sword.

GoodKingJayIII · November 2008

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Ranx wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

I loved the books, to me Terry Goodkind is a fucking literary master.

really? o_O

Yes

So . . . all you could see in the book was the rape and torture? You didn't read the parts that dealt with the beauty of the human spirit, the struggle to do the right thing in the face of insermounting evil, friendship, brotherhood, anything? No?

Three words for you: barbed demon phallus.

No thanks.

Daxon · November 2008

GoodKingJayIII wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Ranx wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

I loved the books, to me Terry Goodkind is a fucking literary master.

really? o_O

Yes

So . . . all you could see in the book was the rape and torture? You didn't read the parts that dealt with the beauty of the human spirit, the struggle to do the right thing in the face of insermounting evil, friendship, brotherhood, anything? No?

Three words for you: barbed demon phallus.

No thanks.

Oh god, I don't even understand how that was relevant to anything happening in the books. Demon rape is bad enough without making it some kind of torture/maiming at the same time.

Bogart · November 2008

Everything I hear about Goodkind's books is just D:.

A Dabble Of Thelonius · November 2008

I'd really like some clarification on how the chicken that embodies all evil, the magical goats and the prostitute transporter system mesh with the term literary genius.

iguanacus · November 2008

Well see, the goat symbolizes mans inhumanity to man...

I got nothing.

durandal4532 · November 2008

Oh that's this dude?

Is the chicken in the movie?

I want to see the chicken.

Page- · November 2008

To be fair, the chicken-that-is-not-a-chicken is pretty awesome.

Fencingsax · November 2008

All I remember from the second book are the BDSM cult of wizards and witches. It was possibly just lesbian witches though, I never actually finished the second book.

skyknyt · November 2008

The first book had the BDSM interrogation specialists who were all raped by their fathers and then later killed their fathers to symbolize their freedom.

The second book has the BDSM nuns who beat up (male) wizards so they won't abuse their powers, and some of THEM are secretly BDSM witches who have sex with demons for powers normally reserved for males.

Erios · November 2008

skyknyt wrote: »

The first book had the BDSM interrogation specialists who were all raped by their fathers and then later killed their fathers to symbolize their freedom.

The second book has the BDSM nuns who beat up (male) wizards so they won't abuse their powers, and some of THEM are secretly BDSM witches who have sex with demons for powers normally reserved for males.

I think I saw this hentai...

Fencingsax · November 2008

skyknyt wrote: »

The first book had the BDSM interrogation specialists who were all raped by their fathers and then later killed their fathers to symbolize their freedom.

The second book has the BDSM nuns who beat up (male) wizards so they won't abuse their powers, and some of THEM are secretly BDSM witches who have sex with demons for powers normally reserved for males.

I remember the BDSM interrogators. I was not quite sure about the BDSM nuns/witch-hunters/inquisition/secret witch cult of devil fuckers.

Organichu · November 2008

I thought the SoT was an excellent series. People roll their eyes at it pretty often, but I consider it scores ahead of most major fantasy pulp. Some concepts are obviously dumb (the overemphasis on the chicken, the thematic repetition to the point of monotony, etc.) but I found myself liking the characters, enjoying the combat, etc.

One of my favorite fantasy series.

The television production is, unfortunately, trash.

A Dabble Of Thelonius · November 2008

So does Richard like cheese?

FCD · November 2008

He does not like it, but he can eat it.

Also, he converted communists to capitalism by carving an awesome statue. Srsly.

Witch_Hunter_84 · November 2008

skyknyt wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

Listen, this kinda shit happens in the real world. There is injustice, rape, torture, tyranny, etc. The books also focus on friendship, honesty, justice, equality, true love, and brotherhood. You want something you can read all easy-like, go with Harry Potter. I like to read novels that hold up a mirror to the world and society.

I really don't want to Godwin the thread or anything, but even dudes like Hitler and Stalin didn't spend their free time molesting children and raping women while plotting with their villainous, child molesting underlings and their rape-torture BDSM squads roamed the country side. It is like a cartoon of "how evil can the evil be!" The world is not full of mustache twirling rapists wearing black and skulls plotting from vast complexes.

Meanwhile Richard Rahl literally goes around killing and maiming people under the aegis of "truth." I mean the dude kicks a little girl's face in for laughing at him.

While she was torturing the shit out of him.

And I'm not "lording" my fascination with Goodkind's writing over anyone. I'm responding to attacks on it by fellow posters. I'm disagreeing, not condemning.

FCD · November 2008

Again, he converted communists, by carving a super awesome statue. Also, people armed only with their hatred of moral clarity. I don't think it's physically possible for a writer to be more hamfisted than him, unless they specialize in editorial newspaper comics.

MrMister · November 2008

FCD wrote: »

Again, he converted communists, by carving a super awesome statue. Also, people armed only with their hatred of moral clarity. I don't think it's physically possible for a writer to be more hamfisted than him, unless they specialize in editorial newspaper comics.

Xeddicus · November 2008

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

While she was torturing the shit out of him.

This is why the series is good. If people kicked more little girls who torture people in the face it be happier, sunnier world! Picking out all these specific details of the world is stupid. A Song of an Ice and Fire series has incest all over the place popping out healthy kids. That seems a bit more disturbing to me than a killer chicken for a chapter. Plenty of stupid details in Sword of Truth, it's mainly if you disagree with his message you wont like the story, though.

The series really dips when that lack of an editor with balls enough to tell him to shaddup, we get your point already, reveals itself. When the violence happens it's normally happening to the right people. Devil is in the details.

Details being why the show sucks. There wont be little girls getting their head kicked off, chickens, BDSM, torture of the guilty, none of that fun stuff! Oh yeah, all the boring plot points that no one here mentions will be gone too. His preaching does tend to drown them out in places, but they're ok in general. But if you hate what is in the series, the show could be your new favorite show possibly!

Evil Multifarious · November 2008

Brother and sister incest will generally not pop out distorted freaks. You will likely get a physically normal, healthy child. There is a greater likelihood of recessive genetic problems manifesting, and the more interbreeding there is, the worse things get, but a single brother-sister pairing? Happens all the time with entirely benign phyisiological results.

The problem is that Sword of Truth is just pretty normal pulp fantasy. In fact, it has a good chunk of concepts suspiciously in common with another, equally terrible series, the Wheel of Time. Add to SoT the incredibly wrongheaded and hamfisted moralizing and philosophizing, the caricatures of evil that are failed attempts to discuss or reflect the real world, and the main character who is both admittedly the author's attempt to represent himself (clearly self-worship) and a terrible, brutal man who is somehow a paragon of virtue and perfect solution to every problem - add all this and you have terrible books.

Organichu · November 2008

I disagree, Evil, but I will fight to the death for your right to say what you say.

(

Spoiler:

)

Evil Multifarious · November 2008

Organichu wrote: »

I disagree, Evil, but I will fight to the death for your right to say what you say.

(

Spoiler:

you jerk
)

It's okay to be wrong. And one day, maybe you'll even be right!

GoodKingJayIII · November 2008

Xeddicus wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

A Song of an Ice and Fire series has incest all over the place popping out healthy kids.

And frankly, ASoIaF is pretty terrible too.

At least Goodkind generally sticks with the same characters (at least when I stopped after the fourth book). Martin's fiction is just a garbled mess of characters, some of whom he seems to make up on the spot, and then focus on for half a book. I have no problem with him killing off important characters for the sake of story, but when he ignores them for entire books, I'm done.

zeeny · November 2008

GoodKingJayIII wrote: »

Xeddicus wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

A Song of an Ice and Fire series has incest all over the place popping out healthy kids.

And frankly, ASoIaF is pretty terrible too.

At least Goodkind generally sticks with the same characters (at least when I stopped after the fourth book). Martin's fiction is just a garbled mess of characters, some of whom he seems to make up on the spot, and then focus on for half a book. I have no problem with him killing off important characters for the sake of story, but when he ignores them for entire books, I'm done.

You seem to be forgetting that one of those two can write very good fantasy prose and the other is a smith with a typewriter.

GoodKingJayIII · November 2008

zeeny wrote: »

GoodKingJayIII wrote: »

Xeddicus wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

A Song of an Ice and Fire series has incest all over the place popping out healthy kids.

And frankly, ASoIaF is pretty terrible too.

At least Goodkind generally sticks with the same characters (at least when I stopped after the fourth book). Martin's fiction is just a garbled mess of characters, some of whom he seems to make up on the spot, and then focus on for half a book. I have no problem with him killing off important characters for the sake of story, but when he ignores them for entire books, I'm done.

You seem to be forgetting that one of those two can write very good fantasy prose and the other is a smith with a typewriter.

Neither writes prose very well. I just picked up A Feast for Crows, because I hadn't read GRRM in several years and I figured I'd give him another chance. It's the same hackneyed garbage I read in the last three books.

GungHo · November 2008

Evil Multifarious wrote: »

The problem is that Sword of Truth is just pretty normal pulp fantasy.

There are elements from just about everything, from Rings, to Star Wars, to a hundred other things. The only things that really make it stand out from everything else is the perverted Gorean bullshit... which was also a rip off (of perverted Gorean bullshit). Goodkind's literature is about as original as Wal-Mart's Dr. Thunder.

Witch_Hunter_84 · November 2008

GoodKingJayIII wrote: »

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

A Song of an Ice and Fire series has incest all over the place popping out healthy kids.

And frankly, ASoIaF is pretty terrible too.

At least Goodkind generally sticks with the same characters (at least when I stopped after the fourth book). Martin's fiction is just a garbled mess of characters, some of whom he seems to make up on the spot, and then focus on for half a book. I have no problem with him killing off important characters for the sake of story, but when he ignores them for entire books, I'm done.

That's not me, that's Xeddicus who said that.

Mr. Henry Bemis · November 2008

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

I loved the books, to me Terry Goodkind is a fucking literary master.

holy fucking shit

Mr. Henry Bemis · November 2008

I DISAGREE STRONGLY

A Dabble Of Thelonius · November 2008

Kristen knows.

Rolo · November 2008

Witch_Hunter_84 wrote: »

I loved the books, to me Terry Goodkind is a fucking literary master. That being said, i discovered that he was the one who had the final say on how the show was written. This really shocked me. Why would he do something like this to his own work? I would've rather not associated myself with the project at all and let the whole thing go under without my name being attached to it rather than be associated with . . . this.

Terry Goodkind wrote:

They raced out from the long shadows of the buildings and poured around the corner. The people off at the end of the street all turned when they spotted Richard's force coming. More people--men and women from the city--surged into the street in front of the compound of buildings the soldiers had taken oup as barracks and a command post. The people looked like a scraggly lot.

"No war! No war! No war!" the people shouted as Richard led the men up the street at a dead run.
"Out of the way!" Richard yelled as he closed the distance. This was no time for subtlety or discussions: the success of their attack depended in large part on speed. "Get out of the way! This is your only warning! Get out of the way or die!"
"Stop the hate! Stop the hate!" the people chanted as they locked arms.
They had no idea how much hate was raging through Richard. He drew the Sword of Truth. The wrath of its magic didn't come out with it, but he had enough of his own. He slowed to a trot.
"Move!" Richard called as he bore down on the people.
A plump, curly-haired woman took a step out from the others. Her round face was red with anger as she screamed. "Stop the hate! No war! Stop the hate! No war!"
"Move or die!" Richard yelled as he picked up speed.
The red-faced woman shook her fleshy fist at Richard and his men, leading an angry chant. "Murderers! Murderers! Murderers!"
On his way past her, gritting his teeth as he screamed with the fury of the attack begun, Richard took a powerful swing, lopping off the woman's head and upraised arm. Strings of blood and gore splashed across the faces behind her even as some still chanted their empty words. The head and loose arm tumbled through the crowd. A man mad the mistake of reaching for Richard's weapon, and took the full weight of a charging thrust.
Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead. The line of people collapsed before the merciless charge. Some of the people, screaming their contempt, used their fists to attack Richard's men. They were met with swift and deadly steel.
At the realization that their defense of the Imperial Order's brutality would actually result in consequences to themselves, the crowd began scattering in fright, screaming curses back at Richard and his men.

Mr. Henry Bemis · November 2008

Terry Fucking Goodkind wrote:

Hissing, hackles lifting, the chicken's head rose.

Kahlan pulled back.

Its claws digging into stiff dead flesh, the chicken slowly turned to face her. It cocked its head, making its comb flop, its wattles sway.

"Shoo," Kahlan heard herself whisper.

There wasn't enough light, and besides, the side of its beak was covered with gore, so she couldn't tell if it had the dark spot. But she didn't need to see it.

"Dear spirits, help me," she prayed under her breath.

The bird let out a slow chicken cackle. It sounded like a chicken, but in her heart she knew it wasn't. In that instant, she completely understood the concept of a chicken that was not a chicken. This looked like a chicken, like most of the Mud People's chickens. But this was no chicken.

This was evil manifest.

The Raging Platypus · November 2008

Hahahhahahahahahhahhh

I should really go back and read these books, just for sheer entertainment value.

Penny Arcade

Legend of the Seeker: Look upon me book continuity, and despair.

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