First, the terrible sandbox part in No More Heroes? Wouldn't someone be silly to say that it doesn't matter that it's bad, because the rest of the game is good? Of course it matters. The game can still be awesome and receive criticism for bad elements. Mirror's Edge can still be awesome and receive rightful criticism for flaws.
The Shadow of the Colossus thing. First of all, I'll find the article that affirms what I said. Second of all, I was using it as an example of a game whose priorities were meant to lay elsewhere, and used intelligent design choices to lower the priority in the mind of the gamer of one thing or another. To qualify my statements on the supposedly bad gunplay of Mirror's Edge.
I'm not being intentionally antagonistic or pulling this all out of my ass. I'm being unintentionally antagonistic and pulling it out of thin air.
First, the terrible sandbox part in No More Heroes? Wouldn't someone be silly to say that it doesn't matter that it's bad, because the rest of the game is good? Of course it matters. The game can still be awesome and receive criticism for bad elements. Mirror's Edge can still be awesome and receive rightful criticism for flaws.
Yes.
You have no idea how prevalent the excusal of the overworld is because of the aforementioned hypothesis.
The Shadow of the Colossus thing. First of all, I'll find the article that affirms what I said. Second of all, I was using it as an example of a game whose priorities were meant to lay elsewhere, and used intelligent design choices to lower the priority in the mind of the gamer of one thing or another. To qualify my statements on the supposedly bad gunplay of Mirror's Edge.
I'm not being intentionally antagonistic or pulling this all out of my ass. I'm being unintentionally antagonistic and pulling it out of thin air.
But you are taking it for granted that moving the jump button to triangle is a "intelligent design choice." You shouldn't take this for granted in this debate. Because I don't agree. I don't agree that ther decision was either less or more intelligent than the Mirror's Edge deveopers' decision to not cultivate the gunplay.
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Podlyyou unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered Userregular
edited November 2008
Studying Greek makes Heidegger seem more valid in his genealogy of being. Because, seriously, Greek etymology is pretty kooky.
The best way to kill a troll is to engage them face-value. You pretend as if they are not trolling and exhaust them by just continuing to argue with them until THEY are blue in the face. Then when they get fed up and retreat to their bedroll in the bedrock, you can smile in the knowledge that you have bested them through attrition alone.
The physics of throwing the basketball were atrocious. But I think it's excusable because it's not necessary.
See, and we do differ here. I don't think it's excusable. Don't take this to mean I'd nerd-rage over it. It is entirely inconsequential. It's not necessary, you're absolutely right. It is as unimportant as things get. However, and I realize how unutterably pedantic and trivial this is, it's not excusable. Simply ignorable.
So I can excuse it being shitty. Since it doesn't actually impede the game in any way. It's just an extra thing that isn't good.
My main point, I suppose. My ultimate point, is that it doesn't specifically take away from the overall reach and achievement of the game, as optional as it is. Also, gunplay is a little more integral than basketball, but still I just think that, because of it, Mirror's Edge could not, should not, earn an AAA rating. That's all.
The physics of throwing the basketball were atrocious. But I think it's excusable because it's not necessary.
See, and we do differ here. I don't think it's excusable. Don't take this to mean I'd nerd-rage over it. It is entirely inconsequential. It's not necessary, you're absolutely right. It is as unimportant as things get. However, and I realize how unutterably pedantic and trivial this is, it's not excusable. Simply ignorable.
So I can excuse it being shitty. Since it doesn't actually impede the game in any way. It's just an extra thing that isn't good.
My main point, I suppose. My ultimate point, is that it doesn't specifically take away from the overall reach and achievement of the game, as optional as it is. Also, gunplay is a little more integral than basketball, but still I just think that, because of it, Mirror's Edge could not, should not, earn an AAA rating. That's all.
So to be considered a superb game, every bit of its code has to be spic-n-span?
I mean, The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall is probably the buggiest game I've ever played and I would still place it in my top-25 games-of-all-time list. Above any of the other Elder Scrolls games, in fact.
Sometimes the good a game does can push past the shit it drags along. I really don't know how to think about games any other way. They aren't like books where you can't skip pages. I didn't have to pick up that basketball, ever. The fact that it wasn't implemented perfectly has absolutely no negative bearing on my opinion of the game. I simply cannot understand how it can, for you. It's like getting a birthday cake with Reese's Peanut Butter Cups on top and saying "this cake sucks because of the Peanut Butter Cups on top!" because you don't like them, when you can just pick them off.
Anyway I just successfully lied to the Sheriff's Office. It was pretty rad. But also I feel pretty bad. But also rad.
??
There have been two bank robberies in as many months in my county. I was curious because that never happens around here. There's crime, just not anything that bold. People in this town knock over convenience stores, not banks. So I successfully convinced the SO that I'm a a CJ major and wanted to use an actual investigation to write a paper on the investigative process.
So I'm going to come over in the morning and sign a non-disclosure agreement and they're going to let me follow their investigation.
JamesKeenan what is the difference between something excusable and something ignorable
On case by case I would say it'd vary, but if you put a gun to my head and asked, I might say something ignorable is something that's inconsequential to the main method of gameplay. For the record I would not agree that guns are completely irrelevant to the main method of gameplay in Mirror's Edge.
Excusable might be something beyond developer control, or human capability. Bugs probably fall under this category. I can't help but feel that this question was just a trap, but I'm trying to be cooperative since I am more or less the face of evil in this debate.
So to be considered a superb game, every bit of its code has to be spic-n-span?
No, I don't mean 10/10 scores must be reserved for UND ONLY FOR perfect games with NO FLAWS.
It comes down to a personal measure of the weight or importance of the specific element in question. Which in turn comes down to a debate on the purpose of video games themselves, and then art.
Anyway I just successfully lied to the Sheriff's Office. It was pretty rad. But also I feel pretty bad. But also rad.
??
There have been two bank robberies in as many months in my county. I was curious because that never happens around here. There's crime, just not anything that bold. People in this town knock over convenience stores, not banks. So I successfully convinced the SO that I'm a a CJ major and wanted to use an actual investigation to write a paper on the investigative process.
So I'm going to come over in the morning and sign a non-disclosure agreement and they're going to let me follow their investigation.
Sometimes the good a game does can push past the shit it drags along. I really don't know how to think about games any other way. They aren't like books where you can't skip pages. I didn't have to pick up that basketball, ever. The fact that it wasn't implemented perfectly has absolutely no negative bearing on my opinion of the game. I simply cannot understand how it can, for you. It's like getting a birthday cake with Reese's Peanut Butter Cups on top and saying "this cake sucks because of the Peanut Butter Cups on top!" because you don't like them, when you can just pick them off.
Well, first, I would obviously not argue that the game was less because of the basketball thing. I would not consider taking away one point.
But of course it would bother me.
And yes, sometimes an amazing game his shit it drags along. But
1. You still can't ignore the shit in the name of the good things
2. After that, you still need to weigh the good against the bad.
JamesKeenan what is the difference between something excusable and something ignorable
On case by case I would say it'd vary, but if you put a gun to my head and asked, I might say something ignorable is something that's inconsequential to the main method of gameplay. For the record I would not agree that guns are completely irrelevant to the main method of gameplay in Mirror's Edge.
Excusable might be something beyond developer control, or human capability. Bugs probably fall under this category. I can't help but feel that this question was just a trap, but I'm trying to be cooperative since I am more or less the face of evil in this debate.
So to be considered a superb game, every bit of its code has to be spic-n-span?
No, I don't mean 10/10 scores must be reserved for UND ONLY FOR perfect games with NO FLAWS.
It comes down to a personal measure of the weight or importance of the specific element in question. Which in turn comes down to a debate on the purpose of video games themselves, and then art.
Guns are not completely irrelevant to Mirror's Edge's gameplay.
Specifically, the player using guns to shoot enemies, though, is ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT TO MIRROR'S EDGE'S GAMEPLAY.
See the difference? This is what I was trying to explain in my first post. And this was the catch, here. Guns ARE an important inclusion. And disarming them IS an important thematic and interactive element of the game. But turning around and shooting enemies is NOT. That specific part of what falls under "guns" in the game ISentirelyirrelevant.
Anyway I just successfully lied to the Sheriff's Office. It was pretty rad. But also I feel pretty bad. But also rad.
??
There have been two bank robberies in as many months in my county. I was curious because that never happens around here. There's crime, just not anything that bold. People in this town knock over convenience stores, not banks. So I successfully convinced the SO that I'm a a CJ major and wanted to use an actual investigation to write a paper on the investigative process.
So I'm going to come over in the morning and sign a non-disclosure agreement and they're going to let me follow their investigation.
Most of that stuff is public record anyways.
I'd find out who did it, yeah. After waiting for them to catch the guy. If they catch the guy. This way I'll be able to watch them (not) catch the guy.
Posts
Why won't you allow me to actually purchase things?
I just want to give you money. Assholes.
First, the terrible sandbox part in No More Heroes? Wouldn't someone be silly to say that it doesn't matter that it's bad, because the rest of the game is good? Of course it matters. The game can still be awesome and receive criticism for bad elements. Mirror's Edge can still be awesome and receive rightful criticism for flaws.
The Shadow of the Colossus thing. First of all, I'll find the article that affirms what I said. Second of all, I was using it as an example of a game whose priorities were meant to lay elsewhere, and used intelligent design choices to lower the priority in the mind of the gamer of one thing or another. To qualify my statements on the supposedly bad gunplay of Mirror's Edge.
I'm not being intentionally antagonistic or pulling this all out of my ass. I'm being unintentionally antagonistic and pulling it out of thin air.
And here they keep asking for my money and I won't give it to them.
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Yes.
You have no idea how prevalent the excusal of the overworld is because of the aforementioned hypothesis.
But you are taking it for granted that moving the jump button to triangle is a "intelligent design choice." You shouldn't take this for granted in this debate. Because I don't agree. I don't agree that ther decision was either less or more intelligent than the Mirror's Edge deveopers' decision to not cultivate the gunplay.
They let me give them all my money.
Hello, lied the Incenjucar.
The best way to kill a troll is to engage them face-value. You pretend as if they are not trolling and exhaust them by just continuing to argue with them until THEY are blue in the face. Then when they get fed up and retreat to their bedroll in the bedrock, you can smile in the knowledge that you have bested them through attrition alone.
Lying to people is easy.
Laying people is harder.
I have to remind myself that I just don't have enough time to play that many awesome games.
Anyway I just successfully lied to the Sheriff's Office. It was pretty rad. But also I feel pretty bad. But also rad.
See, and we do differ here. I don't think it's excusable. Don't take this to mean I'd nerd-rage over it. It is entirely inconsequential. It's not necessary, you're absolutely right. It is as unimportant as things get. However, and I realize how unutterably pedantic and trivial this is, it's not excusable. Simply ignorable.
My main point, I suppose. My ultimate point, is that it doesn't specifically take away from the overall reach and achievement of the game, as optional as it is. Also, gunplay is a little more integral than basketball, but still I just think that, because of it, Mirror's Edge could not, should not, earn an AAA rating. That's all.
I've been foruming since EverQuest 1.
I am experienced in these matters.
I can persuade just about anyone to go away and abandon whatever foolish forum quest they thought to embark on on any given day.
??
So to be considered a superb game, every bit of its code has to be spic-n-span?
I mean, The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall is probably the buggiest game I've ever played and I would still place it in my top-25 games-of-all-time list. Above any of the other Elder Scrolls games, in fact.
Sometimes the good a game does can push past the shit it drags along. I really don't know how to think about games any other way. They aren't like books where you can't skip pages. I didn't have to pick up that basketball, ever. The fact that it wasn't implemented perfectly has absolutely no negative bearing on my opinion of the game. I simply cannot understand how it can, for you. It's like getting a birthday cake with Reese's Peanut Butter Cups on top and saying "this cake sucks because of the Peanut Butter Cups on top!" because you don't like them, when you can just pick them off.
It's not polite to [chat] with your mouth full.
There have been two bank robberies in as many months in my county. I was curious because that never happens around here. There's crime, just not anything that bold. People in this town knock over convenience stores, not banks. So I successfully convinced the SO that I'm a a CJ major and wanted to use an actual investigation to write a paper on the investigative process.
So I'm going to come over in the morning and sign a non-disclosure agreement and they're going to let me follow their investigation.
On case by case I would say it'd vary, but if you put a gun to my head and asked, I might say something ignorable is something that's inconsequential to the main method of gameplay. For the record I would not agree that guns are completely irrelevant to the main method of gameplay in Mirror's Edge.
Excusable might be something beyond developer control, or human capability. Bugs probably fall under this category. I can't help but feel that this question was just a trap, but I'm trying to be cooperative since I am more or less the face of evil in this debate.
:evil:
No, I don't mean 10/10 scores must be reserved for UND ONLY FOR perfect games with NO FLAWS.
It comes down to a personal measure of the weight or importance of the specific element in question. Which in turn comes down to a debate on the purpose of video games themselves, and then art.
Most of that stuff is public record anyways.
Yay internet!
Well, first, I would obviously not argue that the game was less because of the basketball thing. I would not consider taking away one point.
But of course it would bother me.
And yes, sometimes an amazing game his shit it drags along. But
2. After that, you still need to weigh the good against the bad.
Guns are not completely irrelevant to Mirror's Edge's gameplay.
Specifically, the player using guns to shoot enemies, though, is ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT TO MIRROR'S EDGE'S GAMEPLAY.
See the difference? This is what I was trying to explain in my first post. And this was the catch, here. Guns ARE an important inclusion. And disarming them IS an important thematic and interactive element of the game. But turning around and shooting enemies is NOT. That specific part of what falls under "guns" in the game IS entirely irrelevant.
I'd find out who did it, yeah. After waiting for them to catch the guy. If they catch the guy. This way I'll be able to watch them (not) catch the guy.
But I won't. I'll replace his eyes if I have to, if he won't see what I see.
He has to drive in a couple months. Don't completely ruin his eyes.
Well, for some people.