That orgasms have multiple health benefits is not controversial anywhere but Salt Lake and Vatican Cities. You are comparing something that is good for you to something that actively kills you and in that comparisson you are equating them.
And it is absolutely either immature or ignorant, and definitely ridiculous.
So I gather you're prepared to explain how a device used as an aid to perform an activity whose ultimate result has been consistently shown to be good for both mental and physical health is analogous to an activity that actively kills you? If not, "maybe they just don't like it" doesn't fly. Maybe they just don't like your playing videogames ever at all. Or that you're interested in cars. Then they demand you abandon it completely and forever. Who is the douchebag there, you or them? I get the idea it's just not one that makes any sense.
Well, it gets more complicated than that. How important is your porn to you? How serious is her hang-up about it? If you really don't care one way or the other, and she's genuinely bothered by it for whatever reason, then maybe the answer is giving up porn instead of months of costly therapy. The answer depends on the specific circumstances. You can't simply... simply... wait, shit.
Hey man, do you have any aloe vera? Wrasslin' with your straw man has gotten me all itchy.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
That orgasms have multiple health benefits is not controversial anywhere but Salt Lake and Vatican Cities. You are comparing something that is good for you to something that actively kills you and in that comparisson you are equating them.
And it is absolutely either immature or ignorant, and definitely ridiculous.
Orgasms != porn. Last I heard, you could have orgasms from this thing called sex.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
See the post from which this branch discourse was born. Specifically see the part where I listed "not having enough sex" as a possible root-problem. Also the part where I specifically drew a distinction between porn and orgasm in the post you quoted above.
See the post from which this branch discourse was born. Specifically see the part where I listed "not having enough sex" as a possible root-problem. Also the part where I specifically drew a distinction between porn and orgasm in the post you quoted above.
Can you cite a source that says the number of orgasms you have, as opposed to just having them occasionally (2 times a week apparently), is better for your overall mental and physical health? Other than that it just seems like you'd be an ass to do that in the presence of such awe inspiring scientific proof.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
See the post from which this branch discourse was born. Specifically see the part where I listed "not having enough sex" as a possible root-problem. Also the part where I specifically drew a distinction between porn and orgasm in the post you quoted above.
Can you cite a source that says the number of orgasms you have, as opposed to just having them occasionally (2 times a week apparently), is better for your overall mental and physical health? Other than that it just seems like you'd be an ass to do that in the presence of such awe inspiring scientific proof.
Probably, but I made no claims to such effect so I don't need to. And I definitely don't feel like it.
How the hell can anyone here give an overall view that labels everyone's relationships?
People are dramatically different in many ways, especially in opinions, wants, needs, and personalities. So sure, some people have a relationship where they watch porn and their partner's o.k with it, maybe that means they don't like their partner enough to care what they think sexually about others. or maybe it means jack shit, it's completely personal to the relationship.
I do not in any way see how it is hard to understand how someone would be uncomfortable with their partner thinking about sex with another, or watching another woman have sex to get themselves sexually aroused, or vice versa.
Also, did someone say that someone elses girlfriend should "grow up" if they have a problem with this? Because who the fuck do they think they are?! And why should others value your opinion so highly? Because I think maybe you and your girlfriend should grow the fuck up and realize that sometimes, some people are truly intimate in the relationship and love their partner to share their sexual desires with them and only them, and why the hell would that matter to you?
How the hell can anyone here give an overall view that labels everyone's relationships?
People are dramatically different in many ways, especially in opinions, wants, needs, and personalities. So sure, some people have a relationship where they watch porn and their partner's o.k with it, maybe that means they don't like their partner enough to care what they think sexually about others. or maybe it means jack shit, it's completely personal to the relationship.
I do not in any way see how it is hard to understand how someone would be uncomfortable with their partner thinking about sex with another, or watching another woman have sex to get themselves sexually aroused, or vice versa.
Also, did someone say that someone elses girlfriend should "grow up" if they have a problem with this? Because who the fuck do they think they are?! And why should others value your opinion so highly? Because I think maybe you and your girlfriend should grow the fuck up and realize that sometimes, some people are truly intimate in the relationship and love their partner to share their sexual desires with them and only them, and why the hell would that matter to you?
The problems with an arrangement where you're each allowed to share your sexual desires with your partner and not yourself should be obvious.
And also, why would there be a problem there, in that specific relationship, which you know nothing about and don't know the people involved?
I do know something about the relationship. I know that the people involved each wish to deny themselves knowledge of own sexual desires while providing the other with theirs, but the only people who can find out what those desires in the first place are the individuals in who the desire resides. I know that their relationship is based on an incoherent ideal. That will be problems.
The problems with an arrangement where you're each allowed to share your sexual desires with your partner and not yourself should be obvious.
HEY CRAZY, I DON'T NEED TO STROKE MY MEAT TO PORN.
Cite me where it says porn is necessary to receive those awesome benefits you claimed earlier.
I didn't claim it was necessary, just that it helps. If you need me to prove that, uh, lock the door and GIS "boobies" or something. Make sure you have some tissues on hand. You are injecting lots of claims into my argument that just aren't there.
I do know something about the relationship. I know that the people involved each wish to deny themselves knowledge of own sexual desires while providing the other with theirs, but the only people who can find out what those desires in the first place are the individuals in who the desire resides. I know that their relationship is based on an incoherent ideal. That will be problems.
Speaking of incoherent, can you rephrase that in Earth-english?
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I do know something about the relationship. I know that the people involved each wish to deny themselves knowledge of own sexual desires while providing the other with theirs, but the only people who can find out what those desires in the first place are the individuals in who the desire resides. I know that their relationship is based on an incoherent ideal. That will be problems.
Speaking of incoherent, can you rephrase that in Earth-english?
Sounds like an inversed gospel babble from a scientologist.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
The problems with an arrangement where you're each allowed to share your sexual desires with your partner and not yourself should be obvious.
That sentence doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't you be able to share them with yourself... actually, how can you share them with yourself?
And also, why would there be a problem there, in that specific relationship, which you know nothing about and don't know the people involved?
You can sort of experience/fulfill many of your fantasies via porn+masturbation, not so much with your partner. You likely have wildly different fantasies many of which you have no interest in actually going through with in real life for practical reasons.
When it comes to relationships yes you often have to compromise for the sake of your partners happiness and the person who is in the right might decide its just not worth fighting over, but that doesn't mean one person can't be theoretically "right" and the other "wrong".
What if I tell a girl she can never read her romance smut novels ever again because they make me jealous and insecure and I've got low self esteem am I in the right? Maybe the problem here isn't the smut novels. People are insisting in blaming porn for things and insisting that it is more acceptable to tell someone they can't watch porn then it is to tell them they can't play golf.
The problems with an arrangement where you're each allowed to share your sexual desires with your partner and not yourself should be obvious.
HEY CRAZY, I DON'T NEED TO STROKE MY MEAT TO PORN.
Cite me where it says porn is necessary to receive those awesome benefits you claimed earlier.
It was from a 2006 study entitled Numerous Members of Notable Girth and Their Placement Within Aesthetically Pleasing Females Possessed of Non-Standard Social Mores VIII.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
The problems with an arrangement where you're each allowed to share your sexual desires with your partner and not yourself should be obvious.
HEY CRAZY, I DON'T NEED TO STROKE MY MEAT TO PORN.
Cite me where it says porn is necessary to receive those awesome benefits you claimed earlier.
It was from a 2006 study entitled Numerous Members of Notable Girth and Their Placement Within Aesthetically Pleasing Females Possessed of Non-Standard Social Mores VIII.
You're so kinky.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Bowen,
How and why is it more acceptable to tell your partner they can't watch porn than it is to tell them they can't play golf?
I'm not saying it's not. Merely that anyone can make any request about any habit or pastime that someone partakes in. If your S/O's father was killed in a horribly golfing accident, I don't see the problem. Why they're asking you is entirely up to them and if you wish to be in a relationship with that person, then you are able to decide if it's okay.
Claiming that making that call is unreasonable is just as unreasonable.
Also, it'd be like playing golf with $10,000 diamond fiber mega filament clubs. You don't need it to enjoy or play the game.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I do know something about the relationship. I know that the people involved each wish to deny themselves knowledge of own sexual desires while providing the other with their sexual desires, but the only people who can find out what those desires are in the first place are the individuals in whom the desire resides. I know that their relationship is based on an incoherent ideal. That will be problems.
Speaking of incoherent, can you rephrase that in Earth-english?
It was as clear as it can be before, but I corrected grammatical errors if that helps. The problem may be that you're expecting my description of an incoherent ideal to be coherent. What they want to do doesn't make any sense at all.
And I'm not saying that the person viewing the porn is a golden-child or anything, they could be the one preventing the couple from having enough sex too.
I'd be interested in differences in australia vs america as well, since in australia broadband is only highly available in the major urban areas and there's still a decent chunk of the population without decent internet access.
I'm not dissing what you are saying in any way Cat, just curious about trends.
Well that's the other thing - heavy internet users are still not the majority even in broadband-heavy areas, so the same people I'm talking about speak of feeling isolated from the local sexual norms, which are insulated somewhat from outside influences. And whether those local norms are actually healthier or not doesn't really change the isolation factor.
I didn't get that.
Sorry I'm not taking my adhd meds today for reasons of tense shoulders and wanting to give them a rest.
So I couldn't concentrate on all the variables.
Could you break it up a bit?
I'm not sure I got what Cat is saying there either. I'm thinking Cat is saying that broadband isn't as common as you'd think and isn't a major factor in weather someone has problems establishing actual intimacy. You need the combination of access to porn + isolation from local sexual/relationship norms to be more likely to report problems establishing actual intimacy.
I think this has less to do with porn and more to do with being isolated.
No, I'm basically saying that being the only person for 300 miles who even knows what 2girls1cup is tends to be an isolating factor for these people.
Not all porn habits are created equal. Why is your partner watching? Is it because he's horny and you're not around? Is it because he would rather wank it to fake sex than have the real thing with you? Is it because he thinks you're not hot enough? The former doesn't sound bad at all. The latter two, different story.
There's nothing wrong with porn. But both partners have to be okay with it, and it should be used to supplement sex, not replace it.
There's nothing wrong with pornography, but there is definitely something wrong with the vast majority of pornography available for consumption.
Mainly that it is a reflection of and contributor to the patriarchal white-supremacist mindset wrt sexuality.
-edit- There are distinctions to be made between hardcore and softcore and the various flavors of pornography, but for simplicity's sake I'm talking about the media that take the lion's share of the pornography dollars: hardcore hetero magazine and video porn.
Bowen,
How and why is it more acceptable to tell your partner they can't watch porn than it is to tell them they can't play golf?
I'm not saying it's not. Merely that anyone can make any request about any habit or pastime that someone partakes in. If your S/O's father was killed in a horribly golfing accident, I don't see the problem. Why they're asking you is entirely up to them and if you wish to be in a relationship with that person, then you are able to decide if it's okay.
Claiming that making that call is unreasonable is just as unreasonable.
Also, it'd be like playing golf with $10,000 diamond fiber mega filament clubs. You don't need it to enjoy or play the game.
Actually it's more like playing golf on a course as opposed to putt-putt. And yes, that request would be pretty unreasonable. There are grounds upon which it could be reasonable (i.e; the only time we both don't have to be at work you spend at the golf course), but the reason you've provided is ridiculous. Yes, a person's reasons for making a request absolutely bear on the reasonability of that request.
Dare I say that the assumption that you need porn to wank it (and VC isn't the only one who failed to question that until just now) is part of the problem I'm describing?
We can't even get a healthy balance to our cultural view of something as prosaic as eating, so doing so with sex seems pretty difficult.
[FMC thought: Chocolate makes me horny, sex makes me want chocolate life is good]
Very true Trowizilla and I'm betting there would be a very good case to be made that both have to do with availability, our animal nature and drive for survival. Funny that both eating and sex seem to have have a root in parenting and education.
Dare I say that the assumption that you need porn to wank it (and VC isn't the only one who failed to question that until just now) is part of the problem I'm describing?
Oh I think I do dare
I don't need to question it unless someone establishes that porn is natively harmful. It goes like this; you're allowed to do stuff until it causes harm. Not like this; you're not allowed to do stuff unless it's necessary. The necessity or lack of necessity of porn is irrelevant to my argument.
Bowen,
How and why is it more acceptable to tell your partner they can't watch porn than it is to tell them they can't play golf?
I'm not saying it's not. Merely that anyone can make any request about any habit or pastime that someone partakes in. If your S/O's father was killed in a horribly golfing accident, I don't see the problem. Why they're asking you is entirely up to them and if you wish to be in a relationship with that person, then you are able to decide if it's okay.
Claiming that making that call is unreasonable is just as unreasonable.
Also, it'd be like playing golf with $10,000 diamond fiber mega filament clubs. You don't need it to enjoy or play the game.
I'm ok with this answer.
I just felt like people were arguing that someone can say "you can't watch porn because its porn" and expect that to be a better justification then saying "you can't play golf because its golf"
The other problem I have is that lots of people think "you can't watch porn because it makes me jealous" is a better arguement then "you can't play golf because there is a cute girl working at the golf course and it makes me jealous". yeah, your partner could be right, but if your not infatuated with the porn girl or the golf course girl then your partner is probably being unreasonable. You might find you'd rather not fight your partner over the issue since relationships are about compromise, but that doesn't make your partner right.
Bowen,
How and why is it more acceptable to tell your partner they can't watch porn than it is to tell them they can't play golf?
I'm not saying it's not. Merely that anyone can make any request about any habit or pastime that someone partakes in. If your S/O's father was killed in a horribly golfing accident, I don't see the problem. Why they're asking you is entirely up to them and if you wish to be in a relationship with that person, then you are able to decide if it's okay.
Claiming that making that call is unreasonable is just as unreasonable.
Also, it'd be like playing golf with $10,000 diamond fiber mega filament clubs. You don't need it to enjoy or play the game.
I agree with bowen. Porn is a dirty thing, and sexuality is to be scoffed at.
Not in its current form (it was a fuckload tamer), and it was a lot harder to access.
Having written my dissetation partly on the history of porn, I feel obliged to clarify the above.
Porn in times past was only tamer in that it wasn't in video form. There's very, very little in our modern society in that respect that the Greeks or Romans didn't already do, draw and write about.
The accessiblity and video nature of porn are new, true.
The other problem I have is that lots of people think "you can't watch porn because it makes me jealous" is a better arguement then "you can't play golf because there is a cute girl working at the golf course and it makes me jealous". yeah, your partner could be right, but if your not infatuated with the porn girl or the golf course girl then your partner is probably being unreasonable. You might find you'd rather not fight your partner over the issue since relationships are about compromise, but that doesn't make your partner right.
What if it was, instead, "Don't play golf with your new hot babe golfing partner because it makes me jealous"? It's fairly common for people to imagine themselves in the situations they're viewing, and often having sex with people who aren't their SO. While I don't find porn necessarily unhealthy at all, I don't find it unreasonable that some people would object to their SO fantasizing about banging other people.
No, it doesn't make your partner right. My wife is claustrophobic and hates elevators. Is she "right"? No. But if we can take the stairs, it seems a reasonable accommodation. Because, you know, she's my wife, and I love her, and sometimes I don't mind inconveniencing myself to please her. Now, if I was scared of stairs, perhaps we'd need to explore a different solution.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Posts
http://www.worldhealth.net/news/good_vibrations_uncovering_the_health_be
http://www.4-men.org/sexual-health/benefits-of-orgasm.html
http://sexuality.about.com/od/sexualhealthqanda/f/orgasms_health.htm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5263250/
That orgasms have multiple health benefits is not controversial anywhere but Salt Lake and Vatican Cities. You are comparing something that is good for you to something that actively kills you and in that comparisson you are equating them.
And it is absolutely either immature or ignorant, and definitely ridiculous.
Well, it gets more complicated than that. How important is your porn to you? How serious is her hang-up about it? If you really don't care one way or the other, and she's genuinely bothered by it for whatever reason, then maybe the answer is giving up porn instead of months of costly therapy. The answer depends on the specific circumstances. You can't simply... simply... wait, shit.
Hey man, do you have any aloe vera? Wrasslin' with your straw man has gotten me all itchy.
Orgasms != porn. Last I heard, you could have orgasms from this thing called sex.
Can you cite a source that says the number of orgasms you have, as opposed to just having them occasionally (2 times a week apparently), is better for your overall mental and physical health? Other than that it just seems like you'd be an ass to do that in the presence of such awe inspiring scientific proof.
Probably, but I made no claims to such effect so I don't need to. And I definitely don't feel like it.
People are dramatically different in many ways, especially in opinions, wants, needs, and personalities. So sure, some people have a relationship where they watch porn and their partner's o.k with it, maybe that means they don't like their partner enough to care what they think sexually about others. or maybe it means jack shit, it's completely personal to the relationship.
I do not in any way see how it is hard to understand how someone would be uncomfortable with their partner thinking about sex with another, or watching another woman have sex to get themselves sexually aroused, or vice versa.
Also, did someone say that someone elses girlfriend should "grow up" if they have a problem with this? Because who the fuck do they think they are?! And why should others value your opinion so highly? Because I think maybe you and your girlfriend should grow the fuck up and realize that sometimes, some people are truly intimate in the relationship and love their partner to share their sexual desires with them and only them, and why the hell would that matter to you?
The problems with an arrangement where you're each allowed to share your sexual desires with your partner and not yourself should be obvious.
That sentence doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't you be able to share them with yourself... actually, how can you share them with yourself?
And also, why would there be a problem there, in that specific relationship, which you know nothing about and don't know the people involved?
HEY CRAZY, I DON'T NEED TO STROKE MY MEAT TO PORN.
Cite me where it says porn is necessary to receive those awesome benefits you claimed earlier.
I don't know, but that would have to be the case for masturbatory aids to be a problem.
By finding out what they are and masturbating to fantasies of them.
I do know something about the relationship. I know that the people involved each wish to deny themselves knowledge of own sexual desires while providing the other with theirs, but the only people who can find out what those desires in the first place are the individuals in who the desire resides. I know that their relationship is based on an incoherent ideal. That will be problems.
I didn't claim it was necessary, just that it helps. If you need me to prove that, uh, lock the door and GIS "boobies" or something. Make sure you have some tissues on hand. You are injecting lots of claims into my argument that just aren't there.
Speaking of incoherent, can you rephrase that in Earth-english?
Sounds like an inversed gospel babble from a scientologist.
We still have a good sex life. We're not sexual deviants.
Carry on.
You can sort of experience/fulfill many of your fantasies via porn+masturbation, not so much with your partner. You likely have wildly different fantasies many of which you have no interest in actually going through with in real life for practical reasons.
When it comes to relationships yes you often have to compromise for the sake of your partners happiness and the person who is in the right might decide its just not worth fighting over, but that doesn't mean one person can't be theoretically "right" and the other "wrong".
What if I tell a girl she can never read her romance smut novels ever again because they make me jealous and insecure and I've got low self esteem am I in the right? Maybe the problem here isn't the smut novels. People are insisting in blaming porn for things and insisting that it is more acceptable to tell someone they can't watch porn then it is to tell them they can't play golf.
It was from a 2006 study entitled Numerous Members of Notable Girth and Their Placement Within Aesthetically Pleasing Females Possessed of Non-Standard Social Mores VIII.
You're so kinky.
I used to not. Discussion restarted.
How and why is it more acceptable to tell your partner they can't watch porn than it is to tell them they can't play golf?
Let me rephrase that. My girlfriend used to give me blow jobs while we would watch porn.
Thread over due to awesomeness.
I'm not saying it's not. Merely that anyone can make any request about any habit or pastime that someone partakes in. If your S/O's father was killed in a horribly golfing accident, I don't see the problem. Why they're asking you is entirely up to them and if you wish to be in a relationship with that person, then you are able to decide if it's okay.
Claiming that making that call is unreasonable is just as unreasonable.
Also, it'd be like playing golf with $10,000 diamond fiber mega filament clubs. You don't need it to enjoy or play the game.
It was as clear as it can be before, but I corrected grammatical errors if that helps. The problem may be that you're expecting my description of an incoherent ideal to be coherent. What they want to do doesn't make any sense at all.
And I'm not saying that the person viewing the porn is a golden-child or anything, they could be the one preventing the couple from having enough sex too.
No, I'm basically saying that being the only person for 300 miles who even knows what 2girls1cup is tends to be an isolating factor for these people.
There's nothing wrong with pornography, but there is definitely something wrong with the vast majority of pornography available for consumption.
Mainly that it is a reflection of and contributor to the patriarchal white-supremacist mindset wrt sexuality.
-edit- There are distinctions to be made between hardcore and softcore and the various flavors of pornography, but for simplicity's sake I'm talking about the media that take the lion's share of the pornography dollars: hardcore hetero magazine and video porn.
Not in its current form (it was a fuckload tamer), and it was a lot harder to access.
Actually it's more like playing golf on a course as opposed to putt-putt. And yes, that request would be pretty unreasonable. There are grounds upon which it could be reasonable (i.e; the only time we both don't have to be at work you spend at the golf course), but the reason you've provided is ridiculous. Yes, a person's reasons for making a request absolutely bear on the reasonability of that request.
My analogy is comparing masturbation to watching porn while masturbating.
It seems.
Better analogy than both is playing golf with a full set of clubs instead of just two drivers.
Oh I think I do dare
I don't need to question it unless someone establishes that porn is natively harmful. It goes like this; you're allowed to do stuff until it causes harm. Not like this; you're not allowed to do stuff unless it's necessary. The necessity or lack of necessity of porn is irrelevant to my argument.
I've gotten blowjobs while playing scout in TF2
whole new meaning to BOINK!
I'm ok with this answer.
I just felt like people were arguing that someone can say "you can't watch porn because its porn" and expect that to be a better justification then saying "you can't play golf because its golf"
The other problem I have is that lots of people think "you can't watch porn because it makes me jealous" is a better arguement then "you can't play golf because there is a cute girl working at the golf course and it makes me jealous". yeah, your partner could be right, but if your not infatuated with the porn girl or the golf course girl then your partner is probably being unreasonable. You might find you'd rather not fight your partner over the issue since relationships are about compromise, but that doesn't make your partner right.
I agree with bowen. Porn is a dirty thing, and sexuality is to be scoffed at.
Having written my dissetation partly on the history of porn, I feel obliged to clarify the above.
Porn in times past was only tamer in that it wasn't in video form. There's very, very little in our modern society in that respect that the Greeks or Romans didn't already do, draw and write about.
The accessiblity and video nature of porn are new, true.
I call bullshit. Nothing existed before porn. Seriously, you know all those cave paintings of buffalo? Bestiality.
What if it was, instead, "Don't play golf with your new hot babe golfing partner because it makes me jealous"? It's fairly common for people to imagine themselves in the situations they're viewing, and often having sex with people who aren't their SO. While I don't find porn necessarily unhealthy at all, I don't find it unreasonable that some people would object to their SO fantasizing about banging other people.
No, it doesn't make your partner right. My wife is claustrophobic and hates elevators. Is she "right"? No. But if we can take the stairs, it seems a reasonable accommodation. Because, you know, she's my wife, and I love her, and sometimes I don't mind inconveniencing myself to please her. Now, if I was scared of stairs, perhaps we'd need to explore a different solution.