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The Black Friday Thread: Walmart Worker Trampled and Killed By Crowd

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Posts

  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    When you read the article, the part that really stands out
    "When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,"' she said. "They kept shopping."

    So the guy dying and then telling customers to leave because, you know, they had just killed a guy...even that won't shake people out of it on Black Fridays?

    Jesus, I'm never going to a sale again.

    EDIT: I also agree that, though I suspect reality may raise a hand and say "Excuse me" on this one, the customers should be the ones to be looked at for charges. I'm not saying Walmart isn't involved and doesn't share some burden here, but seriously, a mob of people trample a guy and the mob goes free while the place the mob was going to is vilified? I would go so far to say as a societal outlook that results in the company being held responsible and not the mob is part of why incidents like this happen.

    Raynaga on
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Well Fox News informed me that this is what we, Americans, should do. Because we work hard to buy stuff because materialism is a good thing. God damn America.

    Casually Hardcore on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Raynaga wrote: »
    When you read the article, the part that really stands out
    "When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,"' she said. "They kept shopping."

    So the guy dying and then telling customers to leave because, you know, they had just killed a guy...even that won't shake people out of it on Black Fridays?

    Jesus, I'm never going to a sale again.

    EDIT: I also agree that, though I suspect reality may raise a hand and say "Excuse me" on this one, the customers should be the ones to be looked at for charges. I'm not saying Walmart isn't involved and doesn't share some burden here, but seriously, a mob of people trample a guy and the mob goes free while the place the mob was going to is vilified? I would go so far to say as a societal outlook that results in the company being held responsible and not the mob is part of why incidents like this happen.
    There isn't really any way to hold the mob responsible, and it's not like Wal-Mart is totally blameless.

    Thanatos on
  • Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    If [legal fees+damages paid to relatives]>[sales profit], expect action to be taken. If not, I wouldn't expect much of it.

    Panda4You on
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    When you read the article, the part that really stands out
    "When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,"' she said. "They kept shopping."

    So the guy dying and then telling customers to leave because, you know, they had just killed a guy...even that won't shake people out of it on Black Fridays?

    Jesus, I'm never going to a sale again.

    EDIT: I also agree that, though I suspect reality may raise a hand and say "Excuse me" on this one, the customers should be the ones to be looked at for charges. I'm not saying Walmart isn't involved and doesn't share some burden here, but seriously, a mob of people trample a guy and the mob goes free while the place the mob was going to is vilified? I would go so far to say as a societal outlook that results in the company being held responsible and not the mob is part of why incidents like this happen.

    There isn't really any way to hold the mob responsible, and it's not like Wal-Mart is totally blameless.

    Maybe I'm missing something here :lol:

    Raynaga on
  • Kate of LokysKate of Lokys Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Quid wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    However, it is impossible to change these people on a personal level. Maybe shops should stop hyping Black Friday?
    This is pretty much the only solution I can think of, though it isn't likely since no company wants to miss out on that many customers. Likely won't see any change without much worse casualties.

    Alternatively, they could move all the sales online.

    Just look at the thread in G&T. Half the people got their deals online and were damn happy about it. If people knew they weren't missing out by staying home, they'd gladly abandon the Black Friday tradition altogether.
    This too. Though I'd be happy if they just sort of strung out the sales over the holidays rather than put them all in one day.
    Stores aren't going to move their Black Friday specials online, because it would cut their profit in half.

    Places like Wal-Mart and Best Buy don't make their money from those $800 plasmas. They make their money from impulse items ("Oh hey while we're here we need a new DVD player and there's one on sale!"), peripherals ("You're going to need this $120 Monster HDMI cable to get true high-definition picture quality from that TV!"), extended warranties, and people who just buy the next best thing because the special is all sold out. If Wal-Mart has ten $200 laptops, and they sell out in 30 seconds, the other 250 people who spent seventeen hours standing in line aren't just going to shrug and walk away; they're going to run around madly trying to snap up whatever other deals they can. Like that ancient HP Celeron that just got a "Black Friday Special, $100 Off!" sticker slapped on it the night before. Or instead of buying the 50" TV for $800, they end up paying $900 for a 42" just so they didn't waste a trip.

    Online, that's not an issue. There's no wasted time or effort in checking a website, so there's no pressure to buy. There are no aisles filled with attractively-displayed add-ons like cables, batteries, the latest DVDs, etc, so there are no impulse buys. If people try to purchase a specific deal online, and it's sold out, they don't tend to buy something else just because.

    Kate of Lokys on
  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Why does any excuse whatsoever turn people into complete and total fuck heads? :(

    Fixed.

    Part me wants to make a joke about taking one for the team, part of me hopes the cops grab the security footage and start arresting people. Rest in peace noble Wal Mart Employee.

    Detharin on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Why does any excuse whatsoever turn people into complete and total fuck heads? :(

    Fixed.

    Part me wants to make a joke about taking one for the team, part of me hopes the cops grab the security footage and start arresting people. Rest in peace noble Wal Mart Employee.

    They have the tapes, but good luck figuring out any sort of identification from them. They should have locked everybody in the store afterwards for questioning. Preferably until after 1:00, when all the sales lapsed.

    moniker on
  • MorskittarMorskittar Lord Warlock Engineer SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Raynaga wrote: »
    When you read the article, the part that really stands out
    "When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,"' she said. "They kept shopping."

    So the guy dying and then telling customers to leave because, you know, they had just killed a guy...even that won't shake people out of it on Black Fridays?

    Jesus, I'm never going to a sale again.

    EDIT: I also agree that, though I suspect reality may raise a hand and say "Excuse me" on this one, the customers should be the ones to be looked at for charges. I'm not saying Walmart isn't involved and doesn't share some burden here, but seriously, a mob of people trample a guy and the mob goes free while the place the mob was going to is vilified? I would go so far to say as a societal outlook that results in the company being held responsible and not the mob is part of why incidents like this happen.

    One would hope that this mob would have received even the most minimal punishment of not getting the shit they wanted to buy. Trample someone to death, purchase goods, go home and watch TV? What the fuck.

    Morskittar on
    snm_sig.jpg
  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Two people killed in a SoCal Toys R' Us shooting:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/11/28/state/n123739S87.DTL&tsp=1
    Two people were shot to death in a crowded toy store on Black Friday in a confrontation apparently involving rival groups, city officials said.

    Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other. Ferguson said he asked police whether the incident was a dispute over a toy or whether it was gang-related. He said police told him they were not going to release further details until the victims' relatives were notified.

    "I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

    frank as fuck on
  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    They have the tapes, but good luck figuring out any sort of identification from them. They should have locked everybody in the store afterwards for questioning. Preferably until after 1:00, when all the sales lapsed.

    In todays fast paced, consumer driven world how many of those unidentified masses paid cash? Grab the tapes, grab receipts, and start rounding up the herd. It would be a ton of man hours, but you could do it. You track the people entering the store who trampled him, and the use the footage to get people as they leave. Time stamp it, and check your credit card sales.

    Detharin on
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    They have the tapes, but good luck figuring out any sort of identification from them. They should have locked everybody in the store afterwards for questioning. Preferably until after 1:00, when all the sales lapsed.

    In todays fast paced, consumer driven world how many of those unidentified masses paid cash? Grab the tapes, grab receipts, and start rounding up the herd. It would be a ton of man hours, but you could do it. You track the people entering the store who trampled him, and the use the footage to get people as they leave. Time stamp it, and check your credit card sales.

    Aaaaand as has been repeatedly stated, you have nothing to charge them with that a jury would convict them of

    Medopine on
  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Medopine wrote: »

    Aaaaand as has been repeatedly stated, you have nothing to charge them with that a jury would convict them of

    First degree asshattery? Personally I would go with Manslaughter. It sounds like they busted through the doors. I would get them on trespassing, and then charge them all with Manslaughter as the death happened due to the committing of the crime.

    Would a jury convict? Maybe, depends on what the tape shows.

    Detharin on
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Detharin wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »

    Aaaaand as has been repeatedly stated, you have nothing to charge them with that a jury would convict them of

    First degree asshattery? Personally I would go with Manslaughter. It sounds like they busted through the doors. I would get them on trespassing, and then charge them all with Manslaughter as the death happened due to the committing of the crime.

    Would a jury convict? Maybe, depends on what the tape shows.

    They were definitely absolutely not trespassing

    Look up the California Penal Code (EDIT: or whatever state this was in) and tell me if you find anything that fits and isn't 1. a complete stretch and 2. provable to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt

    I realize that this mob of people did something horrendous but the sad fact is here criminal penalties are not going to happen, not with the laws we have now

    Medopine on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Medopine wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »

    Aaaaand as has been repeatedly stated, you have nothing to charge them with that a jury would convict them of

    First degree asshattery? Personally I would go with Manslaughter. It sounds like they busted through the doors. I would get them on trespassing, and then charge them all with Manslaughter as the death happened due to the committing of the crime.

    Would a jury convict? Maybe, depends on what the tape shows.

    They were definitely absolutely not trespassing

    Look up the California Penal Code and tell me if you find anything that fits and isn't 1. a complete stretch and 2. provable to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt

    They were in New York.

    moniker on
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Yeah sorry, I got it mixed up with that shooting

    Medopine on
  • CangoFettCangoFett Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Note to self, commit future murders by putting target in front of a mob of people, and tell the mob that PS3s are on sale for 20 bucks.

    CangoFett on
  • TalleyrandTalleyrand Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Medopine wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »

    Aaaaand as has been repeatedly stated, you have nothing to charge them with that a jury would convict them of

    First degree asshattery? Personally I would go with Manslaughter. It sounds like they busted through the doors. I would get them on trespassing, and then charge them all with Manslaughter as the death happened due to the committing of the crime.

    Would a jury convict? Maybe, depends on what the tape shows.

    They were definitely absolutely not trespassing

    Look up the California Penal Code (EDIT: or whatever state this was in) and tell me if you find anything that fits and isn't 1. a complete stretch and 2. provable to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt

    I realize that this mob of people did something horrendous but the sad fact is here criminal penalties are not going to happen, not with the laws we have now

    I'm going to be pissed if the media doesn't at least jump all over this and shovel guilt down the throats of those responsible. I want this to haunt their Christmas this year and every year for the rest of their lives.

    Talleyrand on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Talleyrand wrote: »
    I'm going to be pissed if the media doesn't at least jump all over this and shovel guilt down the throats of those responsible. I want this to haunt their Christmas this year and every year for the rest of their lives.
    Well, there are these explosions and shootings directed towards British and Americans in Mumbai right now, so probably not.

    Quid on
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Medopine wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »

    Aaaaand as has been repeatedly stated, you have nothing to charge them with that a jury would convict them of

    First degree asshattery? Personally I would go with Manslaughter. It sounds like they busted through the doors. I would get them on trespassing, and then charge them all with Manslaughter as the death happened due to the committing of the crime.

    Would a jury convict? Maybe, depends on what the tape shows.

    They were definitely absolutely not trespassing

    Look up the California Penal Code (EDIT: or whatever state this was in) and tell me if you find anything that fits and isn't 1. a complete stretch and 2. provable to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt

    I realize that this mob of people did something horrendous but the sad fact is here criminal penalties are not going to happen, not with the laws we have now

    Didn't they bust the doors down a few minutes before open? I mean, the store opens at 5am, and they broke it open at 456, so there's a level of trespassing there... ;-)

    Shadowfire on
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Medopine wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »

    Aaaaand as has been repeatedly stated, you have nothing to charge them with that a jury would convict them of

    First degree asshattery? Personally I would go with Manslaughter. It sounds like they busted through the doors. I would get them on trespassing, and then charge them all with Manslaughter as the death happened due to the committing of the crime.

    Would a jury convict? Maybe, depends on what the tape shows.

    They were definitely absolutely not trespassing
    They broke down locked doors, how is that not trespassing?

    Salvation122 on
  • milathmilath Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Medopine wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »

    Aaaaand as has been repeatedly stated, you have nothing to charge them with that a jury would convict them of

    First degree asshattery? Personally I would go with Manslaughter. It sounds like they busted through the doors. I would get them on trespassing, and then charge them all with Manslaughter as the death happened due to the committing of the crime.

    Would a jury convict? Maybe, depends on what the tape shows.

    They were definitely absolutely not trespassing

    Look up the California Penal Code (EDIT: or whatever state this was in) and tell me if you find anything that fits and isn't 1. a complete stretch and 2. provable to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt

    I realize that this mob of people did something horrendous but the sad fact is here criminal penalties are not going to happen, not with the laws we have now

    In the news clip I saw they reported the police were still looking at the possibility of criminal charges, so...

    Granted that doesn't necessarily mean a conviction, but it seems to me a good arresting would do some of the culprits some good. Maybe scare them enough to where they wouldn't do something like that ever again, even if they aren't convicted for some sort of manslaughter.

    As for the whole situation, it's sickening. No stupid item is worth a human life. I hope the people who initiated the whole thing at least suffer from some form of horrible, debilitating guilt if there's no legal repercussions.

    milath on
    steam_sig.png
    "No.. I was wrong. This must be what going mad feels like."

  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Ah I didn't realize the doors were locked still when the trampling occurred. Trespassing might stand up, but I doubt manslaughter would.



    Prosecutors will tell you that you shouldn't charge unless you believe you have the evidence to convict. Arresting them just to teach them a lesson is fairly unethical and wastes money and time.

    Medopine on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Medopine wrote: »
    Detharin wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »

    Aaaaand as has been repeatedly stated, you have nothing to charge them with that a jury would convict them of

    First degree asshattery? Personally I would go with Manslaughter. It sounds like they busted through the doors. I would get them on trespassing, and then charge them all with Manslaughter as the death happened due to the committing of the crime.

    Would a jury convict? Maybe, depends on what the tape shows.

    They were definitely absolutely not trespassing
    They broke down locked doors, how is that not trespassing?

    He unlocked them, that's basically why he got knocked down and trampled.

    moniker on
  • milathmilath Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Medopine wrote: »
    Prosecutors will tell you that you shouldn't charge unless you believe you have the evidence to convict. Arresting them just to teach them a lesson is fairly unethical and wastes money and time.

    Ok, I can see the unethical part, perhaps, but I completely disagree with the waste of money and time part. If it prevents just one of those people from doing the same thing again, maybe it saves a life in the future. I'd hardly call that a waste of time or money.

    If nothing is done, that seems to me to be an almost tacit endorsement of this type of behavior. Arresting a few people for initiating the situation would send the message to a lot of people that it won't be tolerated.

    I know, slippery slope and all that, but what happened is wrong, period. It may fall in a legal gray area or whatever, but it's still wrong and there should be consequences or it's just asking for more of the same type of stories in the future.

    milath on
    steam_sig.png
    "No.. I was wrong. This must be what going mad feels like."

  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Which person would you arrest?

    The people pushing in the back? The people in front? The people that walked by without helping? Those that continued shopping while the guy was dying on the floor?

    Medopine on
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Breaking and entering

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Breaking and entering

    Usually doesn't apply to businesses, only homes/dwellings

    Medopine on
  • milathmilath Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Medopine wrote: »
    Which person would you arrest?

    The people pushing in the back? The people in front? The people that walked by without helping? Those that continued shopping while the guy was dying on the floor?

    I guess I should've been more clear. I'm not calling for the whole crowd to be arrested for no reason.

    But if it can be determined from the security footage and interviews or questioning, I'd arrest the people who started pushing, wherever they are in the crowd.

    Of course, if that can't be determined then I have no idea what can be done cause it would be a waste to arrest hundreds of people, most of whom are probably innocent of doing anything beyond trying to not get crushed themselves.

    milath on
    steam_sig.png
    "No.. I was wrong. This must be what going mad feels like."

  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Has anyone else read more of the details on this yet? My girlfriend was telling me that people were slamming into the people trying to give him CPR and shit, still trying to push past them to get to the deals, or whatever.

    frank as fuck on
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    This is like another case of humanity swimming in its own shit.

    Hoz on
  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    It does make me think that if they could pinpoint the people who were slamming into people trying to save this guy's life, they might be able to make a charge stick to them, at least. Medo, could interfering with people administering CPR count as anything?

    frank as fuck on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    There isn't really any way to hold the mob responsible, and it's not like Wal-Mart is totally blameless.

    Please explain how the mob isn't resonsible, when EMTs and police are surrounding a dead body and people are still shoving their way past them?

    Henroid on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Henroid wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    There isn't really any way to hold the mob responsible, and it's not like Wal-Mart is totally blameless.

    Please explain how the mob isn't resonsible, when EMTs and police are surrounding a dead body and people are still shoving their way past them?

    Because you cannot arrest all the perpetrators, criminal negligence doesn't apply, and apparently lynching laws are more specific than I had figured so there aren't really any mob killing charges that can be brought.

    But please, tell me what they could be charged with that would stick.

    moniker on
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Henroid wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    There isn't really any way to hold the mob responsible, and it's not like Wal-Mart is totally blameless.

    Please explain how the mob isn't resonsible, when EMTs and police are surrounding a dead body and people are still shoving their way past them?

    He said there isn't any way to hold them to responsibility, not that they are not responsible. If you didn't detain them on the spot you've got nothing. And even if you did most of them could squeak out on technicalities and then counter-sue.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Thanks for depressing me you guys.

    Henroid on
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    There's no good way for me to express my disgust without breaking some laws. This is after my aunt was telling me about some people she saw fist fighting for xbox 360's while she was at wal-mart today. It's probably true that nothing will become of this, and worse will probably happen next year.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Psychotic OnePsychotic One The Lord of No Pants Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    And this is why I am ever so glad I got out of retail work.

    Sweet Zombie Jesus what is wrong with people.

    Psychotic One on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Natheo wrote: »
    There's no good way for me to express my disgust without breaking some laws. This is after my aunt was telling me about some people she saw fist fighting for xbox 360's while she was at wal-mart today. It's probably true that nothing will become of this, and worse will probably happen next year.

    We'll get a good crop in the meantime, though.

    moniker on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    You can't get people riled up about the destruction of freedoms by the Bush Administration but throw a sale at them and OMG MUST SHINE GET!

    lol America and Consumerism.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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