Smokers aren't directly useful on their own, but they're great for making someone freak out and grabbing them at the worst possible time. Just when they need to be somewhere else saving someone, suddenly BAM, you're caught.
It should be reiterated that Hunter slash hit multiple people. So if you see 2 or more people right next to each other its probably worth the life to go in and slash once.
Which is absolutely destructive against melee corners/closets/whatever, such as in the BH5 finale when people cluster around the weapon cabinet.
In these situations it's usually best to have your boomer go in and get shot. Then in those critical few seconds where the survivors are stunned you try to wedge yourself somewhere between 2 of them and shlash shlash. You have to get pretty lucky but i've incapped people that way. If it's a closet there's no way you can get in between them, though.
iowa on
0
Options
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
I think if they simply make the tongue go through regular infected it would make the smoker much, much better.
Most of the time, my smoker tricks don't work because there's a stupid fucking horde in the way and my tongue won't hit anything.
Guys in the last stage of blood harvest I got smoker at the start so I went to the right of the train car by the cliff. I tongued the bot on their team (someone left) and he ended up falling and holding the edge of the cliff. The 3 others run over and shoot me. One person goes to rescue the bot but he overshoots and ends up falling and holding on right next to the bot. I'm spawning in as a hunter now and start to make a run for them. They pull up the person (bot is still hanging there) just as I pounce in and pin one of them. The knockback pushes the other 2 clean off the cliff (no grabbing on) and the bot is still their hanging on while I sit on the last guy clawing at him.
(clearly I am the best)
edit: hordes can help with the smoker sometimes since they stop the people and let the damage start quicker
Guys in the last stage of blood harvest I got smoker at the start so I went to the right of the train car by the cliff. I tongued the bot on their team (someone left) and he ended up falling and holding the edge of the cliff. The 3 others run over and shoot me. One person goes to rescue the bot but he overshoots and ends up falling and holding on right next to the bot. I'm spawning in as a hunter now and start to make a run for them. They pull up the person (bot is still hanging there) just as I pounce in and pin one of them. The knockback pushes the other 2 clean off the cliff (no grabbing on) and the bot is still their hanging on while I sit on the last guy clawing at him.
(clearly I am the best)
edit: hordes can help with the smoker sometimes since they stop the people and let the damage start quicker
See, Smokers need to be nerfed now they're clearly overpowered. Damnit Valve when will you learn?
The tongue should have 1.5 to 2x the life it does now vs. shooting. I'm fine with one melee breaking it.
Also, dragging should cause minute damage as well as the smoke cloud. Make them equal to (or maybe slightly better than) the ticking of pain pills.
Those would be my changes.
The problem with melee breaking the smoker tongue is that if there's a melee column, the smoker tongue instantly gets melee'd off, making the smoker pretty useless.
If the smoker tongue was invinclble to melee for a few seconds after grabbing... Or caused knockback on grab... Or required a couple melee hits to break... Any number of things could turn smokers from the joke they are now to the absolutely frightening thing that boomers are.
According to the commentary, the Smoker is supposed to be the formation-breaker. They created the Hunter to punish players for separating from the group, and then they created the Smoker to disrupt the phalanx formation that resulted. To that end, I think any Smoker buff ought to improve his ability to do that. Give him the ability to clip his tongue (and the pullee) through normal Infected and a faster dragging rate and you're set. He's not there for damage, he's there to force the survivors to break formation and save their ally.
In other words, the Smoker is supposed to be the counter to the melee closet. Oops.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
You should play the game before making comments like this, since it makes you look foolish. Boomers, like all the Special Infected (exception: the Tank and the Witch), are not frightening at all, even on Expert, unless they're accompanied by a Horde and/or other Special Infected. A Smoker grabbing you or a Hunter pouncing you while your buddies are blinded and trying to fend off a massive Horde is one of the worst moments in the game.
According to the commentary, the Smoker is supposed to be the formation-breaker. They created the Hunter to punish players for separating from the group, and then they created the Smoker to disrupt the phalanx formation that resulted. To that end, I think any Smoker buff ought to improve his ability to do that. Give him the ability to clip his tongue (and the pullee) through normal Infected and a faster dragging rate and you're set. He's not there for damage, he's there to force the survivors to break formation and save their ally.
In other words, the Smoker is supposed to be the counter to the melee closet. Oops.
And what's the boomer's role?
I was thinking about this yesterday and reflected on the fact that making the smoke do damage and perhaps shortening the cooldown for his primary ability would make the smoker an expert at breaking formations.
Right now the smoker is highly situational. There are some places where he's a gigantic pain, and others where he's almost useless.
They should just take out meleeing the tongue to break it. Shoot the tongue!
Everything would be fixed with the smoker if they'd just apply actual damage to FUCKING STRANGLE SOMEONE!
Like seriously valve, a tongue wrapped around someone's neck dragging them 100 feet and then beating on them while suffocating them.
Like FUCK, people in real life die from suffocation in like 10-15 seconds, it should be the same goddamn concept.
Um, you get strangled if you get hung up on an object, or lifted off the ground by the tongue.
I haven't played much Versus, but Smokers have ruined my day many a time on Campaign. I don't think they're underpowered, I just don't think players are playing them properly.
Like yesterday, a horde came upon my group in the sewers of No Mercy and from one of the side tunnels a Smoker sucked me in. I got pulled into a really dark tunnel and died while my team was fending off the horde. It was something straight out of a horror movie.
Be creative. Try to get players from locations where it's difficult to be shot at. Yes, the tongue breaks easily, but the Smoker is meant to be a distraction, not a killer.
You should play the game before making comments like this, since it makes you look foolish. Boomers, like all the Special Infected (exception: the Tank and the Witch), are not frightening at all, even on Expert, unless they're accompanied by a Horde and/or other Special Infected. A Smoker grabbing you or a Hunter pouncing you while your buddies are blinded and trying to fend off a massive Horde is one of the worst moments in the game.
Hey, way to be a prick! You should maybe read before making comments like this, since it makes you look foolish.
I never said that boomers by themselves are frightening. But I'm more afraid of a Boomer during a co-ordinated attack than any of the others - any downed survivor + vomit = a quick death. A well-timed boomer spells the very end of survivor teams, while a well-timed smoker has a good chance of dragging a guy four feet before he's rescued and the squad soldiers on. There's a big difference.
Making the smoke deal damage seems counter intuitive. The smoker is supposed to be the ranged class, the cloud being toxic merely encourages the player to spawn like a boomer, and run straight into the survivors and never bother with the tongue.
And while I don't like melee closeting on hordes, forcing the survivors to constantly move around during a panic event would swing it completely the opposite way and make it too hard.
Seriously, the only change needed is one that lets the smoker do what he's supposed to: grab one of the survivors and pull him away from the others. Improve the firing/grab, as it often fails for little or no reason to even connect, and make it a bit harder to break.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
They should just take out meleeing the tongue to break it. Shoot the tongue!
Everything would be fixed with the smoker if they'd just apply actual damage to FUCKING STRANGLE SOMEONE!
Like seriously valve, a tongue wrapped around someone's neck dragging them 100 feet and then beating on them while suffocating them.
Like FUCK, people in real life die from suffocation in like 10-15 seconds, it should be the same goddamn concept.
Um, you get strangled if you get hung up on an object, or lifted off the ground by the tongue.
I haven't played much Versus, but Smokers have ruined my day many a time on Campaign. I don't think they're underpowered, I just don't think players are playing them properly.
Like yesterday, a horde came upon my group in the sewers of No Mercy and from one of the side tunnels a Smoker sucked me in. I got pulled into a really dark tunnel and died while my team was fending off the horde. It was something straight out of a horror movie.
Be creative. Try to get players from locations where it's difficult to be shot at. Yes, the tongue breaks easily, but the Smoker is meant to be a distraction, not a killer.
No offence intended or anything, but you need to play more versus before commenting on this. We're all talking specifically about versus, not campaigns where the infected do far, far more damage (on advanced and expert).
No good survivor team is going to back up against a wall to fight a horde with one of the guys backed up next to a hole to be smokered out of, and even if they did they would melee him out of the tongue incredibly fast.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
They should just take out meleeing the tongue to break it. Shoot the tongue!
Everything would be fixed with the smoker if they'd just apply actual damage to FUCKING STRANGLE SOMEONE!
Like seriously valve, a tongue wrapped around someone's neck dragging them 100 feet and then beating on them while suffocating them.
Like FUCK, people in real life die from suffocation in like 10-15 seconds, it should be the same goddamn concept.
Um, you get strangled if you get hung up on an object, or lifted off the ground by the tongue.
I haven't played much Versus, but Smokers have ruined my day many a time on Campaign. I don't think they're underpowered, I just don't think players are playing them properly.
Like yesterday, a horde came upon my group in the sewers of No Mercy and from one of the side tunnels a Smoker sucked me in. I got pulled into a really dark tunnel and died while my team was fending off the horde. It was something straight out of a horror movie.
Be creative. Try to get players from locations where it's difficult to be shot at. Yes, the tongue breaks easily, but the Smoker is meant to be a distraction, not a killer.
Two comments:
1. Smokers are not very good in versus. Out of all the times I've ever played, smokers have consistently been the least dangerous infected overall, with the occasional all or nothing exception. People spam melee all the time.
2. When a class is being played by actual human beings, it has to be effective enough on its own so said person can feel like they contributed. Smokers have the least number of moments where you feel like you did something valuable or cool.
And while I don't like melee closeting on hordes, forcing the survivors to constantly move around during a panic event would swing it completely the opposite way and make it too hard.
I think bunkering down is awesome for the flow of the game, but the issue is that certain areas are cheap as hell (like the closet in NM4 right before the elevator). It's a map design issue more than a gameplay issue.
Seriously, the only change needed is one that lets the smoker do what he's supposed to: grab one of the survivors and pull him away from the others. Improve the firing/grab, as it often fails for little or no reason to even connect, and make it a bit harder to break.
Something might need to be changed about how FF works for smoked targets as well. I generally just fire right through grabbed teammates to kill the smoker if Tier 2 weapons are available, even if the smoker gets the target out of melee range (rare).
According to the commentary, the Smoker is supposed to be the formation-breaker. They created the Hunter to punish players for separating from the group, and then they created the Smoker to disrupt the phalanx formation that resulted. To that end, I think any Smoker buff ought to improve his ability to do that. Give him the ability to clip his tongue (and the pullee) through normal Infected and a faster dragging rate and you're set. He's not there for damage, he's there to force the survivors to break formation and save their ally.
In other words, the Smoker is supposed to be the counter to the melee closet. Oops.
And what's the boomer's role?
Boomer was supposed to force players to think more tactically by changing up the "shoot everything that moves" rule(aside from your teammates).
No offence intended or anything, but you need to play more versus before commenting on this. We're all talking specifically about versus, not campaigns where the infected do far, far more damage (on advanced and expert).
No good survivor team is going to back up against a wall to fight a horde with one of the guys backed up next to a hole to be smokered out of, and even if they did they would melee him out of the tongue incredibly fast.
You completely ignored my point and I've played more Versus than I can think of.
The smoke cloud after the smoker dies doesn't do SHIT.
It's a very small cloud and easily avoidable.
I mean wow, yes the smoker IS the ranged class, but then they should have made it able for him to spit or made the tongue more effective (damage like I said when being dragged/strangled).
Cause in all honesty, it's almost impossible to pull off a successful pull with a smoker in VS with all the melee, and when you do it's only a brief 2-3 second pull before they melee you off. Even then, while they're hanging by dear life for 10 seconds and me beating their asses, brings their health down to what a measly 10 health? I can fucking do that in one swipe from a hunter, .5 seconds.
Sorry rami, but I've played a shitload of vs and smoker is there merely to annoy people, and even then it's unsuccessful.
Edit: rami totally my fault I thought you were commenting on my post, not his. Apology.
I maintain that the smoke cloud should appear around the tongue target the moment it makes contact, rather than around the Smoker after death. Then make it so the smoke does a little damage, and bam, you made Smokers useful and fixed the hero closet/corner strat.
I wonder how adding some knockback to the smoker tongue would change things. If anyone were too close to someone who got smokered, they'd stumble for a bit similar to how the pounce causes knockback. It could make it easier to pull someone out of a melee closet.
I mean, I was even agreeing with you in my previous post, the smoker is shit and doesn't work with all the melee spam in VS. The tongue needs to be a lot more durable.
I don't think damage needs to be incurred while dragging, dragging just needs to be easier. As for the smoke cloud, I'd long since written that off as purely a stylistic thing. I'm not sure the smoke was ever intended to do anything, I think they just wanted to call him the Smoker and so added the smoke in. His 'thing' is the tongue drag and 'smoker' as really nothing to do with that.
If they do anything with the smoke, it should be that a smoke cloud is released when the tongue hits a target. Just a normal vision obscuring cloud. That way it provides a bit of cover while you're dragging a survivor away.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
I mean, I was even agreeing with you in my previous post, the smoker is shit and doesn't work with all the melee spam in VS. The tongue needs to be a lot more durable.
I don't think damage needs to be incurred while dragging, dragging just needs to be easier. As for the smoke cloud, I'd long since written that off as purely a stylistic thing. I'm not sure the smoke was ever intended to do anything, I think they just wanted to call him the Smoker and so added the smoke in. His 'thing' is the tongue drag and 'smoker' as really nothing to do with that.
If they do anything with the smoke, it should be that a smoke cloud is released when the tongue hits a target. Just a normal vision obscuring cloud. That way it provides a bit of cover while you're dragging a survivor away.
This. What the guy below you said too, both of these ideas about the cloud of smoke when first shot is great.
In other news: One hunter pouncing in is always the best way to lead. Everyone instinctually runs toward the hunter'd target. Once they're all huddled close enough together, (which they always then are), the boomer booms them all at once. Other hunter or two can basically get like 5 melee hits in before they see where the damn hunter is.
And of course they're so close together you're guaranteed to hit more than one at once, and maybe even all of them.
That's right. 250 damage to the team in total.
Awww yeah
and yeah, smoker is basically useless. Like, even on NM3 the crescendo event, teams are finally learning to go open the door instead of dropping down to save the teammate
You know, I don't think 80% or players even knew that door existed until the door exploit started spreading around
In other news: One hunter pouncing in is always the best way to lead. Everyone instinctually runs toward the hunter'd target. Once they're all huddled close enough together, (which they always then are), the boomer booms them all at once. Other hunter or two can basically get like 5 melee hits in before they see where the damn hunter is.
And of course they're so close together you're guaranteed to hit more than one at once, and maybe even all of them.
That's right. 250 damage to the team in total.
Awww yeah
and yeah, smoker is basically useless. Like, even on NM3 the crescendo event, teams are finally learning to go open the door instead of dropping down to save the teammate
You know, I don't think 80% or players even knew that door existed until the door exploit started spreading around
how am i a manic pyscho i put edit: and apologized god I hate you all..
you spelled my name wrong too and it's right in front of you.
And while we're at it, the cloud of smoke should work like umbra in NS (cut down the bullets that hit), so the smoker can have a bit more luck dragging someone without being instantly shot away.
And while we're at it, the cloud of smoke should work like umbra in NS (cut down the bullets that hit), so the smoker can have a bit more luck dragging someone without being instantly shot away.
Yea like the bullets get cancer before they travel to the smoker, so when they enter his body he just goes to the store and buys another pack.
They should make the tongue easier to snap (the line of the tongue, not the part wrapping up people) and harder to bash off of people. It shouldn't take two hunting rifle rounds to break a smoker tongue.
I think people are also underestimating the aid of the smoker to the infected. Just because you're not getting points doesn't mean that dragging survivors around isn't helping your team. A smoker is likely to get absolutely 0 points for dragging a survivor off the roof in NM3 or the balcony in NM4, but they're immensely helpful to the team. Those two spots just happen to be the most overt help to the infected. Forcing survivors backwards, or into boomer/hunter ready spots or just making them slow down to try and shoot you - all help the infected without scoring points.
The game doesn't score cooperative acts very well. Seriously, the only way smokers get assist points is if survivors are getting attacked in the smoke cloud. That is not the only time the smoker is assisting the team.
He's still generally the least rewarding 'class' to play. That could be alleviated with very light damage while dragging and either a slower tongue reload or limiting that 'frozen in place after your tongue is broken' stuff.
UltimaGecko on
The facehuggers want to play with you in the AvP LP. Facehuggers also want you to check out the TF2 cards here. View the in-progress RE mansion recreation for L4D here.
The balcony on NM4 is hardly a major setback. I mean, it would take some serious discoordination on the part of the survivors to be seriously harmed there. At most it gives other infected more time to do a little more wear to the survivors.
And NM3, like I said, is becoming more and more useless. I mean, of course the smoker should still do it, because what else is he gonna do? And it could certainly at least allow the Infected to, as before, dish out a little more damage while the survivors recompose themselves.
But more and more teams have wisened up and started just going for the door instead of dropping down like clowns to save their teammate.
JamesKeenan on
0
Options
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
You should play the game before making comments like this, since it makes you look foolish. Boomers, like all the Special Infected (exception: the Tank and the Witch), are not frightening at all, even on Expert, unless they're accompanied by a Horde and/or other Special Infected. A Smoker grabbing you or a Hunter pouncing you while your buddies are blinded and trying to fend off a massive Horde is one of the worst moments in the game.
Wow... are you really that daft? The poster you quoted is absolutely right, and you look like a huge prick who doesn't know what he's talking about.
He wasn't saying a Boomer itself is frightening. He was referring to what a Boomer can do/trigger that is frightening. In any mode, VS or Co-op, what is the FIRST thing people do when they hear the Boomer's gargles?
The Boomer is the absolutely biggest chaos inducer in the game, second only to the tank in some cases.
People go out of their way to kill a boomer.
People will run faster after they have killed a boomer, knowing the next one won't arrive for at least 30 seconds.
People will huddle in a corner in fright after being vomited on by a boomer.
If you take the three main boss infected and consider which one people will scramble after the most, it is the Boomer. Hunter? Stick close together and you're fine. Smoker? He's a joke. Boomer? Spread out, motherfuckers, I just got this shit dry-cleaned.
Edit: I just went into your profile to see if you had posted at all in any of our L4D threads before and noticed the above quote was post #12 for you. Stick to lurking.
Unless you get off on being vomited on, and then you're all like, "I hear those gargles, time to "innocently" wander around those corners and aim at the ground everywhere I go"
A Smoker grabbing you or a Hunter pouncing you while your buddies are blinded and trying to fend off a massive Horde is one of the worst moments in the game.
I think this is the important part. Boomers create that horde that you're talking about. Without the boomer the other special infected have a much harder time doing their thing.
Boomers lead the infected team, everything else revolves around it.
I dabbled in this yesterday to much disappointment.
In 45 minutes I'm going to try it again, probably campaign mode since the game yells at me about finishing that. Anyone interested in that on 360 at that time should send me a message on XBL.
The balcony on NM4 is hardly a major setback. I mean, it would take some serious discoordination on the part of the survivors to be seriously harmed there. At most it gives other infected more time to do a little more wear to the survivors.
And NM3, like I said, is becoming more and more useless. I mean, of course the smoker should still do it, because what else is he gonna do? And it could certainly at least allow the Infected to, as before, dish out a little more damage while the survivors recompose themselves.
But more and more teams have wisened up and started just going for the door instead of dropping down like clowns to save their teammate.
I've noticed the same thing and if I haven't spawned yet when the smoker pulls someone down I try to get set up to either hit the one person who heads toward the inside door switch, or the last person to head down the hole inside the window if all of them go. Anything to keep the group broken up and not continue on.
Also, the balcony on NM4, should have been the roof on NM4.
You should play the game before making comments like this, since it makes you look foolish. Boomers, like all the Special Infected (exception: the Tank and the Witch), are not frightening at all, even on Expert, unless they're accompanied by a Horde and/or other Special Infected. A Smoker grabbing you or a Hunter pouncing you while your buddies are blinded and trying to fend off a massive Horde is one of the worst moments in the game.
Wow... are you really that daft? The poster you quoted is absolutely right, and you look like a huge prick who doesn't know what he's talking about.
He wasn't saying a Boomer itself is frightening. He was referring to what a Boomer can do/trigger that is frightening. In any mode, VS or Co-op, what is the FIRST thing people do when they hear the Boomer's gargles?
The Boomer is the absolutely biggest chaos inducer in the game, second only to the tank in some cases.
People go out of their way to kill a boomer.
People will run faster after they have killed a boomer, knowing the next one won't arrive for at least 30 seconds.
People will huddle in a corner in fright after being vomited on by a boomer.
If you take the three main boss infected and consider which one people will scramble after the most, it is the Boomer. Hunter? Stick close together and you're fine. Smoker? He's a joke. Boomer? Spread out, motherfuckers, I just got this shit dry-cleaned.
Edit: I just went into your profile to see if you had posted at all in any of our L4D threads before and noticed the above quote was post #12 for you. Stick to lurking.
Figgy. I tried to respond to this, but you did it with the vitriol and style I was goin' for.
Posts
Also, dragging should cause minute damage as well as the smoke cloud. Make them equal to (or maybe slightly better than) the ticking of pain pills.
Those would be my changes.
In these situations it's usually best to have your boomer go in and get shot. Then in those critical few seconds where the survivors are stunned you try to wedge yourself somewhere between 2 of them and shlash shlash. You have to get pretty lucky but i've incapped people that way. If it's a closet there's no way you can get in between them, though.
Most of the time, my smoker tricks don't work because there's a stupid fucking horde in the way and my tongue won't hit anything.
(clearly I am the best)
edit: hordes can help with the smoker sometimes since they stop the people and let the damage start quicker
See, Smokers need to be nerfed now they're clearly overpowered. Damnit Valve when will you learn?
The problem with melee breaking the smoker tongue is that if there's a melee column, the smoker tongue instantly gets melee'd off, making the smoker pretty useless.
If the smoker tongue was invinclble to melee for a few seconds after grabbing... Or caused knockback on grab... Or required a couple melee hits to break... Any number of things could turn smokers from the joke they are now to the absolutely frightening thing that boomers are.
In other words, the Smoker is supposed to be the counter to the melee closet. Oops.
It involves zombies dressed as traders at the NYSE
They're all heckling and in commotion
Overhead is a giant screen with the price of world commodities
and below Crude Oil is Braaaaains -170.13
You should play the game before making comments like this, since it makes you look foolish. Boomers, like all the Special Infected (exception: the Tank and the Witch), are not frightening at all, even on Expert, unless they're accompanied by a Horde and/or other Special Infected. A Smoker grabbing you or a Hunter pouncing you while your buddies are blinded and trying to fend off a massive Horde is one of the worst moments in the game.
Like seriously valve, a tongue wrapped around someone's neck dragging them 100 feet and then beating on them while suffocating them.
Like FUCK, people in real life die from suffocation in like 10-15 seconds, it should be the same goddamn concept.
And what's the boomer's role?
I was thinking about this yesterday and reflected on the fact that making the smoke do damage and perhaps shortening the cooldown for his primary ability would make the smoker an expert at breaking formations.
Right now the smoker is highly situational. There are some places where he's a gigantic pain, and others where he's almost useless.
Um, you get strangled if you get hung up on an object, or lifted off the ground by the tongue.
I haven't played much Versus, but Smokers have ruined my day many a time on Campaign. I don't think they're underpowered, I just don't think players are playing them properly.
Like yesterday, a horde came upon my group in the sewers of No Mercy and from one of the side tunnels a Smoker sucked me in. I got pulled into a really dark tunnel and died while my team was fending off the horde. It was something straight out of a horror movie.
Be creative. Try to get players from locations where it's difficult to be shot at. Yes, the tongue breaks easily, but the Smoker is meant to be a distraction, not a killer.
Hey, way to be a prick! You should maybe read before making comments like this, since it makes you look foolish.
I never said that boomers by themselves are frightening. But I'm more afraid of a Boomer during a co-ordinated attack than any of the others - any downed survivor + vomit = a quick death. A well-timed boomer spells the very end of survivor teams, while a well-timed smoker has a good chance of dragging a guy four feet before he's rescued and the squad soldiers on. There's a big difference.
And while I don't like melee closeting on hordes, forcing the survivors to constantly move around during a panic event would swing it completely the opposite way and make it too hard.
Seriously, the only change needed is one that lets the smoker do what he's supposed to: grab one of the survivors and pull him away from the others. Improve the firing/grab, as it often fails for little or no reason to even connect, and make it a bit harder to break.
No offence intended or anything, but you need to play more versus before commenting on this. We're all talking specifically about versus, not campaigns where the infected do far, far more damage (on advanced and expert).
No good survivor team is going to back up against a wall to fight a horde with one of the guys backed up next to a hole to be smokered out of, and even if they did they would melee him out of the tongue incredibly fast.
Two comments:
1. Smokers are not very good in versus. Out of all the times I've ever played, smokers have consistently been the least dangerous infected overall, with the occasional all or nothing exception. People spam melee all the time.
2. When a class is being played by actual human beings, it has to be effective enough on its own so said person can feel like they contributed. Smokers have the least number of moments where you feel like you did something valuable or cool.
Edit:
I think bunkering down is awesome for the flow of the game, but the issue is that certain areas are cheap as hell (like the closet in NM4 right before the elevator). It's a map design issue more than a gameplay issue.
Something might need to be changed about how FF works for smoked targets as well. I generally just fire right through grabbed teammates to kill the smoker if Tier 2 weapons are available, even if the smoker gets the target out of melee range (rare).
Boomer was supposed to force players to think more tactically by changing up the "shoot everything that moves" rule(aside from your teammates).
The smoke cloud after the smoker dies doesn't do SHIT.
It's a very small cloud and easily avoidable.
I mean wow, yes the smoker IS the ranged class, but then they should have made it able for him to spit or made the tongue more effective (damage like I said when being dragged/strangled).
Cause in all honesty, it's almost impossible to pull off a successful pull with a smoker in VS with all the melee, and when you do it's only a brief 2-3 second pull before they melee you off. Even then, while they're hanging by dear life for 10 seconds and me beating their asses, brings their health down to what a measly 10 health? I can fucking do that in one swipe from a hunter, .5 seconds.
Sorry rami, but I've played a shitload of vs and smoker is there merely to annoy people, and even then it's unsuccessful.
Edit: rami totally my fault I thought you were commenting on my post, not his. Apology.
I was responding to Ragnar, not you.
I mean, I was even agreeing with you in my previous post, the smoker is shit and doesn't work with all the melee spam in VS. The tongue needs to be a lot more durable.
I don't think damage needs to be incurred while dragging, dragging just needs to be easier. As for the smoke cloud, I'd long since written that off as purely a stylistic thing. I'm not sure the smoke was ever intended to do anything, I think they just wanted to call him the Smoker and so added the smoke in. His 'thing' is the tongue drag and 'smoker' as really nothing to do with that.
If they do anything with the smoke, it should be that a smoke cloud is released when the tongue hits a target. Just a normal vision obscuring cloud. That way it provides a bit of cover while you're dragging a survivor away.
In other news: One hunter pouncing in is always the best way to lead. Everyone instinctually runs toward the hunter'd target. Once they're all huddled close enough together, (which they always then are), the boomer booms them all at once. Other hunter or two can basically get like 5 melee hits in before they see where the damn hunter is.
And of course they're so close together you're guaranteed to hit more than one at once, and maybe even all of them.
That's right. 250 damage to the team in total.
Awww yeah
and yeah, smoker is basically useless. Like, even on NM3 the crescendo event, teams are finally learning to go open the door instead of dropping down to save the teammate
You know, I don't think 80% or players even knew that door existed until the door exploit started spreading around
you spelled my name wrong too and it's right in front of you.
I think people are also underestimating the aid of the smoker to the infected. Just because you're not getting points doesn't mean that dragging survivors around isn't helping your team. A smoker is likely to get absolutely 0 points for dragging a survivor off the roof in NM3 or the balcony in NM4, but they're immensely helpful to the team. Those two spots just happen to be the most overt help to the infected. Forcing survivors backwards, or into boomer/hunter ready spots or just making them slow down to try and shoot you - all help the infected without scoring points.
The game doesn't score cooperative acts very well. Seriously, the only way smokers get assist points is if survivors are getting attacked in the smoke cloud. That is not the only time the smoker is assisting the team.
He's still generally the least rewarding 'class' to play. That could be alleviated with very light damage while dragging and either a slower tongue reload or limiting that 'frozen in place after your tongue is broken' stuff.
How? I know it was a mistake. But it was a funny mistake.
You yelled at him first, and the very next post were all, "This, this guy is so right"
I understand what happened, it was just funny. No hard feelings at all.
Also, I didn't spell it wrong intentionally, it was a typo.
And NM3, like I said, is becoming more and more useless. I mean, of course the smoker should still do it, because what else is he gonna do? And it could certainly at least allow the Infected to, as before, dish out a little more damage while the survivors recompose themselves.
But more and more teams have wisened up and started just going for the door instead of dropping down like clowns to save their teammate.
Wow... are you really that daft? The poster you quoted is absolutely right, and you look like a huge prick who doesn't know what he's talking about.
He wasn't saying a Boomer itself is frightening. He was referring to what a Boomer can do/trigger that is frightening. In any mode, VS or Co-op, what is the FIRST thing people do when they hear the Boomer's gargles?
The Boomer is the absolutely biggest chaos inducer in the game, second only to the tank in some cases.
People go out of their way to kill a boomer.
People will run faster after they have killed a boomer, knowing the next one won't arrive for at least 30 seconds.
People will huddle in a corner in fright after being vomited on by a boomer.
If you take the three main boss infected and consider which one people will scramble after the most, it is the Boomer. Hunter? Stick close together and you're fine. Smoker? He's a joke. Boomer? Spread out, motherfuckers, I just got this shit dry-cleaned.
Edit: I just went into your profile to see if you had posted at all in any of our L4D threads before and noticed the above quote was post #12 for you. Stick to lurking.
Boomers lead the infected team, everything else revolves around it.
LoL: BunyipAristocrat
In 45 minutes I'm going to try it again, probably campaign mode since the game yells at me about finishing that. Anyone interested in that on 360 at that time should send me a message on XBL.
猿も木から落ちる
I've noticed the same thing and if I haven't spawned yet when the smoker pulls someone down I try to get set up to either hit the one person who heads toward the inside door switch, or the last person to head down the hole inside the window if all of them go. Anything to keep the group broken up and not continue on.
Also, the balcony on NM4, should have been the roof on NM4.