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Israel bans Arab political parties from elections

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Posts

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    I've already said that the bans of the party in and of themselves are terrible and undemocratic things. When I said 'found guilty', I didn't mean via a worthy survey. I didn't suggest there were comprehensive- or even cursory- investigations into whether the bans were deserved. The bans are bad. End of story- no need to try to approach that from a different angle, I already agree.

    On to the point where we disagree, then: I don't disagree that this is a power grab. It absolutely is the intention of Yisrael Beiteinu (and some of the xenophobic members of more mainstream parties) to fill Knesset with war hawks, and so they jumped all over this proposal. However I disagree that it is an intentional power play upon racial lines (at least, amongst most of the government, which is, as I've already said, my primary point of contention).

    So, I absolutely believe that this is a concerted effort to manipulate the ideological paradigm in the Knesset. I believe that as a consequence, many Israeli Arabs will need to run around with their heads cut off to decide on new votes in the next few weeks. However, I don't think that 'because they are Arab' is the reason. I think it's entirely self-furthering and is on ideological, and not racial, lines.
    Yeah, and the South didn't fight the Civil War because they're racists, they just fought it because they believed in states' rights. It was an ideological battle.

    Y'know, states' rights, like the right to own black people.
    I don't know a great deal about the US civil war so perhaps you could make use of a different example that might allow me a deeper understanding?
    It'd be like setting crosses on fire on the lawn of every family in your community celebrating Kwanzaa, then claiming "oh, it's not a racist thing, I just really hate Kwanzaa; I don't have a problem with black people."

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Hopefully the Israeli Supreme Court will overturn this decision.

    It needs to be kept in perspective, though, that it is specific parties being singled out, not a specific race. That doesn't suddenly make it okay, but it does make it a different kind of issue.
    This is bullshit, Evander, and as someone who's studied even a little bit of political science, you should know it.

    Seriously, are you familiar with the term "pretense?"

    All political science is bullshit.

    What they are doing is forcibly removing people who oppose what they stand for. It's not an attack against arabs, its an attack against opponents of the war.

    georgersig.jpg
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...
    What the fuck else could it possibly be?

    It could always be an elaborate surprise party.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Hopefully the Israeli Supreme Court will overturn this decision.

    It needs to be kept in perspective, though, that it is specific parties being singled out, not a specific race. That doesn't suddenly make it okay, but it does make it a different kind of issue.
    This is bullshit, Evander, and as someone who's studied even a little bit of political science, you should know it.

    Seriously, are you familiar with the term "pretense?"
    All political science is bullshit.

    What they are doing is forcibly removing people who oppose what they stand for. It's not an attack against arabs, its an attack against opponents of the war.
    No, it's an attack against proponents of Arab interests. The fact that they object to the war is just the excuse they're using.

  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...
    What the fuck else could it possibly be?

    It could always be an elaborate surprise party.

    THE CAKE IS A LIE
    THE CAKE IS A LIE
    THE CAKE IS A LIE
    THE CAKE IS A LIE
    THE CAKE IS A LIE

    sig.png
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    But don't those ideologies run along racial lines?
    For some of the parties (Yisrael Beiteinu, for instance, and Avigdor Lieberman), sure. For the majority of the Israeli government? No, I don't think so.
    There are... what... five Arab MPs who aren't in those parties? Out of 113 MPs? Representing 20% of the population?

    Yeah, that totally doesn't run along racial lines.

    If I'm reading this correctly, you're suggesting that the low number of Arab members in Knesset is proof that Israeli MPs are racist? Just to clarify so we're on the same page- you are aware that the Israeli public for the most part elects Knesset, eyes? This allows them to vote on whatever issue they'd like- race, ideology etc. But we're not talking about the public, I don't think, unless the topic's changed.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...
    What the fuck else could it possibly be?
    It could always be an elaborate surprise party.
    It turns out it's just a way to get the Arab political parties to the Supreme Court for the most unexpected RickRolling of all time.

  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Hopefully the Israeli Supreme Court will overturn this decision.

    It needs to be kept in perspective, though, that it is specific parties being singled out, not a specific race. That doesn't suddenly make it okay, but it does make it a different kind of issue.
    This is bullshit, Evander, and as someone who's studied even a little bit of political science, you should know it.

    Seriously, are you familiar with the term "pretense?"
    All political science is bullshit.

    What they are doing is forcibly removing people who oppose what they stand for. It's not an attack against arabs, its an attack against opponents of the war.
    No, it's an attack against proponents of Arab interests. The fact that they object to the war is just the excuse they're using.

    And a very bad one. Banning people who doesn't share your (war) interests is also appalling.

  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Hopefully the Israeli Supreme Court will overturn this decision.

    It needs to be kept in perspective, though, that it is specific parties being singled out, not a specific race. That doesn't suddenly make it okay, but it does make it a different kind of issue.
    This is bullshit, Evander, and as someone who's studied even a little bit of political science, you should know it.

    Seriously, are you familiar with the term "pretense?"

    All political science is bullshit.
    Largely but not entirely true.

    sig.png
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Hopefully the Israeli Supreme Court will overturn this decision.

    It needs to be kept in perspective, though, that it is specific parties being singled out, not a specific race. That doesn't suddenly make it okay, but it does make it a different kind of issue.
    This is bullshit, Evander, and as someone who's studied even a little bit of political science, you should know it.

    Seriously, are you familiar with the term "pretense?"
    All political science is bullshit.

    What they are doing is forcibly removing people who oppose what they stand for. It's not an attack against arabs, its an attack against opponents of the war.
    No, it's an attack against proponents of Arab interests. The fact that they object to the war is just the excuse they're using.

    Then why are they stopping at those two parties?

    Your accusations make assumptions of the wants of the Israeli people that there just isn't evidence to back-up. In fact, the last time a party was barred like this, it was a Jewish party that wanted to kick all the arabs out of Israel.

    georgersig.jpg
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Elldren wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    However, I don't think that 'because they are Arab' is the reason. I think it's entirely self-furthering and is on ideological, and not racial, lines.

    But don't those ideologies run along racial lines?

    For some of the parties (Yisrael Beiteinu, for instance, and Avigdor Lieberman), sure. For the majority of the Israeli government? No, I don't think so.

    And who, exactly, proposed kicking them out?

    What's your point? :?: I've already said that there certainly are racist elements, I just don't think it constitutes the majority of Knesset.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • PeekingDuckPeekingDuck __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2009
    Well I'm quite proud that Israel has given the big middle finger to the rest of the world. It was about fucking time.

  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    That doesn't make any sense to me.

    Let's say that tomorrow every Asian American male over the age of 18 committed a murder. They were all indicted, sat trial, and were found guilty. Let's throw in that we have the death penalty in these instances, and so all of those men are executed. This will severely harm the Asian American community. It will take away many of its workers, fathers, and bread winners.

    Are you saying those convictions would then, as a result, be racist? o_O

    Are you suggesting that every single member of the Arab parties are criminals?

    Seriously

    This analogy is so profoundly stupid I can't even find the words to describe it

    I clarified this analogy 9 minutes before your post. I don't think I've said anything unclear, at this point? Can you explain what's stupid about my clarification?

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...
    What the fuck else could it possibly be?

    Given that these were ultranationalists, wanting to get rid of people who visited hostile nations, called a meeting of the government a "celebration of death," called their [the ultranationalist's] party fascist, and identified themselves as "members of the same nation" as foreigners?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    At this point I am beginning to think that there is some merit to the Evangelical position on Israel.

    Allow me to propose a secular version: let Israel slide deeper and deeper into an extremist religious theocracy. That way, when it provokes nuclear war with Iran and/or Pakistan, a smaller percentage of sane people will die in the fallout.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    Banning people who doesn't share your (war) interests is also appalling.

    Banning political parties in general is pretty damn appalling.

    georgersig.jpg
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    But don't those ideologies run along racial lines?
    For some of the parties (Yisrael Beiteinu, for instance, and Avigdor Lieberman), sure. For the majority of the Israeli government? No, I don't think so.
    There are... what... five Arab MPs who aren't in those parties? Out of 113 MPs? Representing 20% of the population?

    Yeah, that totally doesn't run along racial lines.
    If I'm reading this correctly, you're suggesting that the low number of Arab members in Knesset is proof that Israeli MPs are racist? Just to clarify so we're on the same page- you are aware that the Israeli public for the most part elects Knesset, eyes? This allows them to vote on whatever issue they'd like- race, ideology etc. But we're not talking about the public, I don't think, unless the topic's changed.
    The Israeli public votes on the Knesset, but the parties themselves choose the lists. The only party lists with a substantial Arab presence are the Arab parties; the Commies and maybe a couple of the hella left-wing parties (probably Meretz-Yachad) throw a couple of token Arabs near the top of their lists hoping to pick up a couple extra percent from the Arab voters.

    So, I'm saying that the parties are absolutely racist, yes. And do I hold an Israeli public that votes in racist parties as being racist themselves? Fuck yes I do.

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    However, I don't think that 'because they are Arab' is the reason. I think it's entirely self-furthering and is on ideological, and not racial, lines.

    But don't those ideologies run along racial lines?

    For some of the parties (Yisrael Beiteinu, for instance, and Avigdor Lieberman), sure. For the majority of the Israeli government? No, I don't think so.

    And who, exactly, proposed kicking them out?

    What's your point? :?: I've already said that there certainly are racist elements, I just don't think it constitutes the majority of Knesset.

    But that majority voted overwhelming for what is most obviously a racist motion.

  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    I've already said that the bans of the party in and of themselves are terrible and undemocratic things. When I said 'found guilty', I didn't mean via a worthy survey. I didn't suggest there were comprehensive- or even cursory- investigations into whether the bans were deserved. The bans are bad. End of story- no need to try to approach that from a different angle, I already agree.

    On to the point where we disagree, then: I don't disagree that this is a power grab. It absolutely is the intention of Yisrael Beiteinu (and some of the xenophobic members of more mainstream parties) to fill Knesset with war hawks, and so they jumped all over this proposal. However I disagree that it is an intentional power play upon racial lines (at least, amongst most of the government, which is, as I've already said, my primary point of contention).

    So, I absolutely believe that this is a concerted effort to manipulate the ideological paradigm in the Knesset. I believe that as a consequence, many Israeli Arabs will need to run around with their heads cut off to decide on new votes in the next few weeks. However, I don't think that 'because they are Arab' is the reason. I think it's entirely self-furthering and is on ideological, and not racial, lines.
    Yeah, and the South didn't fight the Civil War because they're racists, they just fought it because they believed in states' rights. It was an ideological battle.

    Y'know, states' rights, like the right to own black people.
    I don't know a great deal about the US civil war so perhaps you could make use of a different example that might allow me a deeper understanding?
    It'd be like setting crosses on fire on the lawn of every family in your community celebrating Kwanzaa, then claiming "oh, it's not a racist thing, I just really hate Kwanzaa; I don't have a problem with black people."

    That's so goofy it doesn't make any sense to me, Thanatos.

    We have: a group of people voting to change the composition of Knesset. The change is composition removes a lot of X people who think Y way. You're presuming that they're trying to change it so hard because of the type of person they are, X (in this case, Arab), rather than the way they think, Y (in this case anti Gaza war, etc.). I can't seem to garner any reasoning for that other than "well it's obvious, come on".

    It's not obvious to me, and no one has yet sufficiently explained it.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Banning people who doesn't share your (war) interests is also appalling.

    Banning political parties in general is pretty damn appalling.

    Yes... Thanatos said that the excuse they were using was that "the parties opposed the war = kicked out" and I was commenting on what a really shitty excuse that is.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    No, it's an attack against proponents of Arab interests. The fact that they object to the war is just the excuse they're using.
    Then why are they stopping at those two parties?
    Because they wouldn't get the necessary support from it, and having the token Arab presence in the Knesset means that they can claim it isn't about race.
    Your accusations make assumptions of the wants of the Israeli people that there just isn't evidence to back-up. In fact, the last time a party was barred like this, it was a Jewish party that wanted to kick all the arabs out of Israel.
    That was over 20 years ago.

    I guess since Saddam Hussein was doing it twenty years ago, the current Iraqi government must support invading Kuwait and rape rooms.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...
    What the fuck else could it possibly be?
    Given that these were ultranationalists, wanting to get rid of people who visited hostile nations, called a meeting of the government a "celebration of death," called their [the ultranationalist's] party fascist, and identified themselves as "members of the same nation" as foreigners?
    Quick check, now:

    When did an MP visiting a country become illegal in Israel?
    When did stating an opinion about the state of the Knesset become illegal?
    When did stating an opinion about an opposing member's party become illegal?
    And when did Israel recognize the existance of a Palestinian nation?

  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...
    What the fuck else could it possibly be?

    Given that these were ultranationalists, wanting to get rid of people who visited hostile nations, called a meeting of the government a "celebration of death," called their [the ultranationalist's] party fascist, and identified themselves as "members of the same nation" as foreigners?

    Hyperbole in parliaments is not exactly a new phenomenon.

    sig.png
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    And do I hold an Israeli public that votes in racist parties as being racist themselves? Fuck yes I do.

    Does that only go for Israel, or does that apply to any election?

    georgersig.jpg
  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Yeah, and the South didn't fight the Civil War because they're racists, they just fought it because they believed in states' rights. It was an ideological battle.

    Y'know, states' rights, like the right to own black people.

    It was a war over money.

    QlBGc.jpg
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Hopefully the Israeli Supreme Court will overturn this decision.

    It needs to be kept in perspective, though, that it is specific parties being singled out, not a specific race. That doesn't suddenly make it okay, but it does make it a different kind of issue.
    This is bullshit, Evander, and as someone who's studied even a little bit of political science, you should know it.

    Seriously, are you familiar with the term "pretense?"
    All political science is bullshit.

    What they are doing is forcibly removing people who oppose what they stand for. It's not an attack against arabs, its an attack against opponents of the war.
    No, it's an attack against proponents of Arab interests. The fact that they object to the war is just the excuse they're using.

    Then why are they stopping at those two parties?

    Yes, the Israelis are to be commended for not creating a third party just for the sake of banning it. Truly they are a paragon of reserve and level-headedness.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    But don't those ideologies run along racial lines?
    For some of the parties (Yisrael Beiteinu, for instance, and Avigdor Lieberman), sure. For the majority of the Israeli government? No, I don't think so.
    There are... what... five Arab MPs who aren't in those parties? Out of 113 MPs? Representing 20% of the population?

    Yeah, that totally doesn't run along racial lines.
    If I'm reading this correctly, you're suggesting that the low number of Arab members in Knesset is proof that Israeli MPs are racist? Just to clarify so we're on the same page- you are aware that the Israeli public for the most part elects Knesset, eyes? This allows them to vote on whatever issue they'd like- race, ideology etc. But we're not talking about the public, I don't think, unless the topic's changed.
    The Israeli public votes on the Knesset, but the parties themselves choose the lists. The only party lists with a substantial Arab presence are the Arab parties; the Commies and maybe a couple of the hella left-wing parties (probably Meretz-Yachad) throw a couple of token Arabs near the top of their lists hoping to pick up a couple extra percent from the Arab voters. So, I'm saying that the parties are absolutely racist, yes.

    Ok... still not following here. Why are you drawing automatically that the difference in representation (2:1) is a result of racial worthiness versus ideological sameness or elect ability or any number of issues? It seems to me that you want to believe this is about race but I'm just not seeing many things to back it up. We're talking about a group of people who are 20% of the population but who also have:

    a.) lower qualities of life, in general, and so obviously would be less likely to pursue politics

    b.) ideological views that typically differ from the parties with the greatest amount of seats to offer

    Is there a racist element at work in the nomination status of Knesset parties? Sure. You're making the entire situation about race, though, when really the numbers make sense to me with race accounting for little.
    And do I hold an Israeli public that votes in racist parties as being racist themselves? Fuck yes I do.

    Again, I disagree that the majority of MPs are virulently racist.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    No, it's an attack against proponents of Arab interests. The fact that they object to the war is just the excuse they're using.
    Then why are they stopping at those two parties?
    Because they wouldn't get the necessary support from it, and having the token Arab presence in the Knesset means that they can claim it isn't about race.

    Again, what is your evidence of all of these nebulous intentions?

    You're basically accusing them of a coordinated conspiracy at this point.

    georgersig.jpg
  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Unless you can provide proof that the overarching intention of these motions is to effectively stifle Arab representation in Knesset?...
    What the fuck else could it possibly be?

    Given that these were ultranationalists, wanting to get rid of people who visited hostile nations, called a meeting of the government a "celebration of death," called their [the ultranationalist's] party fascist, and identified themselves as "members of the same nation" as foreigners?

    Hyperbole in parliaments is not exactly a new phenomenon.

    And didn't one of the articles linked (Jazeera I believe) clearly state that the "celebration of death" and fascist remark were made after this ban?

  • edited January 2009
    Evander wrote:
    Then why are they stopping at those two parties?


    They're not stopping at them, they're starting with them.

    This isn't some giant misunderstanding, this is a country who politically defines itself as one race making political decisions to keep itself racially pure.

    D:

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    And do I hold an Israeli public that votes in racist parties as being racist themselves? Fuck yes I do.
    Does that only go for Israel, or does that apply to any election?
    I've said the same thing about people voting for Southern Republicans in this country. It's a little different when your coalitions are formed pre-election than post-election, though.

    Out of curiosity, when was the last time an Arab party was part of a ruling coalition in Israel?

  • PeekingDuckPeekingDuck __BANNED USERS
    edited January 2009
    Sheep wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Yeah, and the South didn't fight the Civil War because they're racists, they just fought it because they believed in states' rights. It was an ideological battle.

    Y'know, states' rights, like the right to own black people.

    It was a war over money.

    No, no... I'm pretty sure Lincoln threw the nation into war for the sake of the black folk he loved so much.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2009
    Organichu wrote: »

    Again, I disagree that the majority of MPs are virulently racist.

    Just casually so?

    I think it's foolish to suggest that an undercurrent of racism and/or nationalism does not run beneath literally every action performed regarding Israeli-Palestinian relations, on both sides.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I mean, let's be clear, I'm generally exceptionally sympathetic to Israel, but this is just fucking ridiculous.

    sig.png
  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Hopefully the Israeli Supreme Court will overturn this decision.

    It needs to be kept in perspective, though, that it is specific parties being singled out, not a specific race. That doesn't suddenly make it okay, but it does make it a different kind of issue.
    This is bullshit, Evander, and as someone who's studied even a little bit of political science, you should know it.

    Seriously, are you familiar with the term "pretense?"
    All political science is bullshit.

    What they are doing is forcibly removing people who oppose what they stand for. It's not an attack against arabs, its an attack against opponents of the war.
    No, it's an attack against proponents of Arab interests. The fact that they object to the war is just the excuse they're using.

    Then why are they stopping at those two parties?

    Yes, the Israelis are to be commended for not creating a third party just for the sake of banning it. Truly they are a paragon of reserve and level-headedness.

    I meant as opposed to banning all arabs, or banning other heavily arab parties (communists, for example.)



    Banning the partiest is a bad thing, but to automatically assume that it was racially motivated, and that the political reasons given are just a smokescreen, is a bit crazy.

    georgersig.jpg
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Banning the partiest is a bad thing, but to automatically assume that it was racially motivated, and that the political reasons given are just a smokescreen, is a bit crazy.

    I think there were many shitty reasons, of which racism is just one.

    edit: And I don't get why you're so tripped up by this "smokescreen" business. Politicians and governments do things for trumped up reasons as smokescreens all the damned time. Why are you so positive that people are being entirely upfront about their motives here?

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »

    Again, I disagree that the majority of MPs are virulently racist.

    Just casually so?

    I think that plenty of Israeli government members possess some level of bigotry, sure. The type that will significantly alter their votes in office? Not nearly so many.
    I think it's foolish to suggest that an undercurrent of racism and/or nationalism does not run beneath literally every action performed regarding Israeli-Palestinian relations, on both sides.

    I agree.

    XMSODhjrer45.gif
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Banning the partiest is a bad thing, but to automatically assume that it was racially motivated, and that the political reasons given are just a smokescreen, is a bit crazy.

    You're ignoring the notion that the political reasons and racial motivation are not mutually exclusive, and in fact (in this case) work hand-in-hand.

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  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Evander wrote: »

    I meant as opposed to banning all arabs, or banning other heavily arab parties (communists, for example.)



    Banning the partiest is a bad thing, but to automatically assume that it was racially motivated, and that the political reasons given are just a smokescreen, is a bit crazy.

    Even if the political reasons given, that it was because they opposed the war, this is still madness.

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    And do I hold an Israeli public that votes in racist parties as being racist themselves? Fuck yes I do.
    Does that only go for Israel, or does that apply to any election?
    I've said the same thing about people voting for Southern Republicans in this country.

    Would you say the same thing of the Palestinians?

    I mean, the Hamas charter is INCREDIBLY anti-semitic (among other things, it goes so far as to say that Jews secretly control the Masons, the Lions, and the Rotary Clubs).

    I just want to know where lines are being drawn here.

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