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Castlevania or Chrono Trigger?

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Posts

  • shutzshutz Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    My 2 cents:

    I got both, don't regret either purchase, so go with whatever you feel like playing the most (platformer or RPG.)

    One thing about Ecclesia's difficulty: yes, it's definitely harder than the last two DS Castlevanias, but, considering I'm not into games that have hardcore difficulty and tend to give up when I hit a point that I can't get past after 20-30 tries, I have to say that Ecclesia offers a good challenge, but not an annoying one. In general, if you hit a wall (usually with a boss) you can just grind for a few levels and then try again.

    The game feels bigger than the last two DS Castlevanias, and there's plenty of (fun) backtracking to do, especially if you're trying to get every drop.

    On Chrono Trigger DS: from my point of view, the game successfully made the transition to handheld without much to complain about. Apart from that, all I can say is, it's the 2D JRPG with the best plot/story EVER.

    Creativity begets criticism.
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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    slash000 wrote: »
    The reason that this combo is particularly powerful on Drac is because he's so weak against Light magic; whereas not all bosses in the game are weak against Light magic. So that takes away a lot of effectiveness.

    I never understood that in most RPGs. Enemies are evil, so naturally they're going to be more darkness-based, right? There's generally a big unbalance as to which enemies are somehow light-aligned and darkness hurts them, so why include it in that way?

    3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504
    Nintendo Network ID: unclesporky
  • SlayerVinSlayerVin Registered User
    edited February 2009
    slash000 wrote: »
    The reason that this combo is particularly powerful on Drac is because he's so weak against Light magic; whereas not all bosses in the game are weak against Light magic. So that takes away a lot of effectiveness.

    I never understood that in most RPGs. Enemies are evil, so naturally they're going to be more darkness-based, right? There's generally a big unbalance as to which enemies are somehow light-aligned and darkness hurts them, so why include it in that way?

    Completely off-topic, but you need to play Shin Megami Tensei.

    On topic comment: When playing OoE, I approached it as another Metroidvania-type game, which was probably wrong on my part. It actually attempted to (and largely succeeded in) merging the old-style Castlevania with the new-style. The first half of the game feels a lot like the old, linear Castlevania 1-3/Dracula X games, where you're pretty limited to how you can choose to proceed whereas at the end, things begin to feel more like the SotN-type games.

    I didn't really think about this until talking about it on here, but this realization makes me appreciate the game just a little bit more.

    BE ATTITUDE FOR GAINS!
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    slash000 wrote: »
    The reason that this combo is particularly powerful on Drac is because he's so weak against Light magic; whereas not all bosses in the game are weak against Light magic. So that takes away a lot of effectiveness.

    I never understood that in most RPGs. Enemies are evil, so naturally they're going to be more darkness-based, right? There's generally a big unbalance as to which enemies are somehow light-aligned and darkness hurts them, so why include it in that way?

    I dunno. Honestly I didn't think that OoE had too many of one type.

    Here are the different types of attacks that an enemy may be potentially weak or strong against:

    Strike
    Fire
    Lightning
    Dark
    Curse
    Slash
    Ice
    Light
    Poison
    Stone


    Furthermore, an enemy can be strong against a type, weak against a type, or neutral against a type.

    Most enemies are weak against at least 2 types, strong against at least 2 types, and neutral against the rest, but it varies; some enemies are weak against 3 or 4 types, and neutral against the rest. Some are weak against 1 type and strong against the rest. Etc. etc. Many combinations.


    There's plenty of room for strategy in this game. But I think it goes kind of without saying that the Lord of Darkness is weak against Light and strong against Dark :P.

  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    SlayerVin wrote: »
    I didn't really think about this until talking about it on here, but this realization makes me appreciate the game just a little bit more.

    I realized this almost immediately, and it's something I really appreciated about OoE. It's ultimately a metroidvania, sure, but it's far more heavily influenced by the older, classic action-platformer Castlevanias than any of the post-Symphony games.

    I mean, Shanoa is still a witch that uses swords/axes/etc. glyphs and other magic, and she gaines new abilities and armor/items, and there's plenty of exploration and what have you; but in a way the levels and tackling the levels feels a lot like the 16 bit Castlevanias like CV4 or Rondo.

    Anyway, it's something I liked because I still kind of long for a new CV in the old style, although finally getting play Rondo-proper (rather than the SNES version) has fulfilled that need for now (on the DracX Chronicles on PSP). But OoE is kind of like a delicious middle ground, and I think it helps distinguish the game from the other Metroidvanias. And distinguishment is good because it helps hold back the series from getting too samey.

  • greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    DracX kinda spoiled me graphics wise. Will I still enjoy OoE? Sure, but always in the back of my head I'll be saying, I wish this was on psp or psn/XBLA. (I like the DS for touch games, button centric games I would rather have elsewhere)

    PSN/steam/battle.net: greeble XBL: GreebleX

    Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
    I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    OoE is beautiful. It's hand drawn and it's gorgeous.

    I think it looks better than the angular 3D models of DracX. In fact I'd say it's the most beautiful of all the 2D castlevania games.

  • Blue mapBlue map Generic Skeleton Guy Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I wouldn't worry about it, i have played the Dracula X Chronicles for something like 20 or so hours total and had no problems with OoE graphics.

  • greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    slash000 wrote: »
    OoE is beautiful. It's hand drawn and it's gorgeous.

    I think it looks better than the angular 3D models of DracX. In fact I'd say it's the most beautiful of all the 2D castlevania games.

    Yeah, but wouldn't you rather have that beautiful hand drawn artwork on a better screen bigger than 3" diagonal? Also while I agree that the hand drawn models look better statically, the animation is better on the 3D ones. (I'm really just pining for a bigger/better screen, not the 3d so much)

    PSN/steam/battle.net: greeble XBL: GreebleX

    Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
    I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
  • mastriusmastrius Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Renzo wrote: »
    These CV games tend to have a ton of replay value for me, so my opinion may be skewed.

    That said, I bought both CT and OoE.

    This is the way to go obviously. In my dilemma of which game to choose my friend came out and said he wanted castlevania anyways and bought it. So I was able to choose Chrono Trigger much more easily. Now i get to play em both.

    "You're like a kitten! A kitten who doesn't speak Japanese." ~ Juliet Starling
  • SlayerVinSlayerVin Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Eh, I dunno. I've played both OoE and Dracula X (in 2D and 3D), and also a lot of 2D and 3D games. Hand-drawn art just always looks better to me, in motion, and still. I grew up with the NES and eventually the SNES, so that might be painting my bias, but if there are enough frames of animation, 2D to me will always look better than 3D.

    I'll definitely agree that stuff generally looks nicer on the big PSP screen, but who wouldn't?

    BE ATTITUDE FOR GAINS!
  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    OOE looks amazing, even compared to the previous DS castlevanias.
    I'm in on those really liking the old/new castlevania blend, too.

  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    OoE is beautiful. It's hand drawn and it's gorgeous.

    I think it looks better than the angular 3D models of DracX. In fact I'd say it's the most beautiful of all the 2D castlevania games.

    Yeah, but wouldn't you rather have that beautiful hand drawn artwork on a better screen bigger than 3" diagonal? Also while I agree that the hand drawn models look better statically, the animation is better on the 3D ones. (I'm really just pining for a bigger/better screen, not the 3d so much)


    Well we hope for this or that, but the reality is that certain great games are only on certain systems, and no amount of wishing it were on something else will change that fact. It's something every gamer faces at some point, especially when they have a particular preference. Just as an example, I personally can say that many console FPSs I wish had come out on PC, where I am more comfortable with the KBAM controls.

    However, some great games end up on certain systems and that's how it is.


    I personally have very little issue with the NDS screens. I do have an issue with the PSP's ghosting screen and the fact that it's noticeably darker than my NDS's screen; although it's nice that it's larger. However, if anything, I kind of wish that DracX was on either a console or the NDS; the console because then I could play it on a larger screen and because I'd be playing in a situation where I wouldn't be bothered so much by load times; or altnernatively on the NDS because if it has to be portable, at least I won't have load times at all and it would have a brighter, less ghost-tending screen. Plus, I could imagine a scenario where a game like Rondo could be done in the style of Ecclesia with beautiful 2D graphics; after all, it's not like Rondo is inherently a 3D game.

    On that note, you could make that argument for any handheld game would be preferable on a console simply by virtue of the larger screen and potentially better graphics. Wouldn't it have been great if Contra 4 were an XBLA title? Wouldn't it have been great if Final Fantasy Crisis Core were a console game?

    It just doesn't happen sometimes. So if you want to play Contra 4, you gotta play it on the NDS. Or Crisis Core on the PSP. Or whatever. Wishing and wanting won't change things; and especially if we're talking about the PSP, there's an increasingly lower probability that some games will be released for it, thanks to developer dropoff in support and the relative high level of investment required for a PSP game and the tendency of low software sales among the installed base.

    I think that given the nature of the Metroidvanias, both in gameplay terms and in terms of the market provided for by the NDS, the platform was the best choice. I also happen to think that the beautiful handdrawn graphics of OoE look better than many of the areas in Drac X that look like pretty weak 3D modelling for some areas, whereas they would have looked so much better with OOE-level detailed high quality 2D art. I don't think OOE suffers at all and in fact benefits from a total lack of loading times; which is something that DracX suffers from.




    But ultimately I buy good games for platforms that I own because they're good games. If it's not available on another platform then that's just how it is. Fortunately in this case, Ecclesia looks beautiful and runs beautiful and has no load times and has excellent controls. I also happen to like having a map on the other screen at all times and I think these metroidvanias are better for that feature. The game is really well suited for the NDS and the fact is, Konami can't really put these games on the PSP or a console because the market's just not there, especially considering the potential increase in development costs. The NDS is an ideal situation for these games both from a gamer's standpoint and the company's standpoint.

  • XagarathXagarath Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Also, having a screen for the map is a wonderful thing.

  • QuicksandSlowlyQuicksandSlowly Registered User
    edited February 2009
    You know what I loved about Chrono Trigger? Multiple endings...

    Adds SO much replayability. Plus the game's so good you'll love replaying.

    Or just save at a good point so you can do something different and get the other endings.

    -Quicksand
  • greeblegreeble Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    slash000 wrote: »
    Wrote a bunch of stuff
    Yeah I realize all that. However I do think a full fledged Castlevania would do ok on the big consoles. And I miss having the option to to play 2D castlevanias on a bigger screen. (psp lets me do that via component cable, GBA let me do it via game boy player, DS however is stuck to two damn 3" screens.) Perhaps I should look into methods which dare not be mentioned on this forum. (Make a fucking DS player for wii, using the IR pointer and I'll buy it, I promise nintendo)

    PSN/steam/battle.net: greeble XBL: GreebleX

    Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
    I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    Wrote a bunch of stuff
    Yeah I realize all that. However I do think a full fledged Castlevania would do ok on the big consoles. And I miss having the option to to play 2D castlevanias on a bigger screen. (psp lets me do that via component cable, GBA let me do it via game boy player, DS however is stuck to two damn 3" screens.) Perhaps I should look into methods which dare not be mentioned on this forum. (Make a fucking DS player for wii, using the IR pointer and I'll buy it, I promise nintendo)

    I dunno; Curse of Darkness barely pulled 200k on the huge PS2 installed base. I can only imagine that huge increases in development costs of the current gen consoles would only strain Konami and Iga's team even more, and only for a far smaller install base. I suppose the Wii would introduce a less expensive option than the PS3/360, but it's still a smaller isntall base than the NDS, and still costs more to dev for than the NDS, even though it's significantly larger base / less cost thanthe PS360. The NDS has both the huge install base and very little dev costs for its games. Plus, there's already an established Castlevania fanbase with the system. Plus, like I said, the games aren't constrained by being on the NDS in terms of what the games require to be made; and the metroidvanias arguably benefit with the onscreen fullscreen map.

    I agree with you in that it'd be nice to have a 2D castlevania on a console, but the reality of the matters preclude that. The consoles are costly to develop for and there's not much promise of sales on those systems. The PSP has very high dev costs for a portable system, but software sales are generally pretty poor.

    It's like I said. There are a lot of things that you and I would want. We can wish for a 2D castlevania on consoles. But the reality is that it's not likely to happen. Instead what we have are some excellent CV games on the NDS (and one on PSP). Beautiful, well-crafted ones. Wishing that circumstances were different isn't going to make circumstances different.


    I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just realistic.


    *also - I tried using the TV out for my PSP. I'm displeased by the fact that TV out results in a tiny image in the center 33% of the screen, and can only be used on TVs supporting prog-scan. But I guess it's better than nothing. Still disappointing though, especially if the TV is HD and introduces video lag, as many HDtvs will do with sub-HD resolution inputs.

  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The strategy worked! Credits are rolling. Thanks guys.

    3DS: 3351-5352-0314
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Renzo wrote: »
    The strategy worked! Credits are rolling. Thanks guys.

    haha, nice :^:

  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    get ready for hard mode


    try hard mode level 50 first, trust me--hard mode level 1 is fucking insane

  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Haha, it'll be a while before I hit up hard mode. I have quite a backlog, including Chrono Trigger.

    3DS: 3351-5352-0314
  • SlayerVinSlayerVin Registered User
    edited February 2009
    greeble wrote: »
    slash000 wrote: »
    Wrote a bunch of stuff
    Yeah I realize all that. However I do think a full fledged Castlevania would do ok on the big consoles. And I miss having the option to to play 2D castlevanias on a bigger screen. (psp lets me do that via component cable, GBA let me do it via game boy player, DS however is stuck to two damn 3" screens.) Perhaps I should look into methods which dare not be mentioned on this forum. (Make a fucking DS player for wii, using the IR pointer and I'll buy it, I promise nintendo)

    I do remember reading that Konami was looking at how well Mega Man 9 did to determine whether or not it would be cost-effective to do a new Castlevania in that same 8-bit style. Here it is:

    "Capcom's 8-bit downloadable revival Mega Man 9 (PS3, Wii, 360) could create new possibilities for developers if it proves a commercial success, Castlevania producer Koji Igarashi told Game|Life.
    "I'm watching [Mega Man 9] very closely to see how it does," said Igarashi. "I'm a big retro gaming fan, so if it is successful that definitely opens up doors for what I can do.""

    http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53835

    Maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but I think it would be pretty sweet.

    BE ATTITUDE FOR GAINS!
  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    It should be understood that I have not even really tried Hard Mode Max Level 1. I beat the game on Hard Max. Lv 50, but Max 1 is just retarded. I don't care enough to do it.

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