I can say honestly that I've never, in a one on one situation, ever been asked, "What do y'all want to do?"
I have! In fact, I (by myself) went to JiffyLube today (Indianapolis, IN) and the young lady that went over my services with me asked "will y'all be wantin' our JiffyLube Signacha Oil Change today?" I had to ask her to repeat herself. She then went on to use the word "winders", as the plural form of "window."
/tangent
...well, fuck. OK, maybe I have been in such a situation, but illiterate folks aside, most of us don't do that!
Sooo...if someone made a thread that was referred positively to the Confederacy, it'd fill with hate against the old South quicker.
Well yeah because those titles attract different kinds of people.
There's always going to be two sides in every thread, the realists and the absolutists.
This is like how everyone's grandfather in Germany was a medic, right?
Same way all the Allies were great people and did nothing bad except for the racial discrimination, looting, and other stuff.
See that's what you sound like to me. As if had you been raised in pre-Civil War South you'd nobly stand against slavery with pure righteousness and moral perfection.
That wasn't actually the post I was trying to reply to.
I can say honestly that I've never, in a one on one situation, ever been asked, "What do y'all want to do?"
I have! In fact, I (by myself) went to JiffyLube today (Indianapolis, IN) and the young lady that went over my services with me asked "will y'all be wantin' our JiffyLube Signacha Oil Change today?" I had to ask her to repeat herself. She then went on to use the word "winders", as the plural form of "window."
/tangent
...well, fuck. OK, maybe I have been in such a situation, but illiterate folks aside, most of us don't do that!
In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.
And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."
read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.
But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.
I'd say that the meanings ascribed to it by the people who choose to fly it are what it actually means.
Sure, you can say that. Absent any actual practical real-world experience with how symbols and communication actually work, that is. Have you done any reading on semiotics? Would you care to actually back up your startlingly bold assertion that you know who ascribes meaning to symbols?
Considering there is such a heated debate over what it actually means, who are you to decide? If you're allowed to decide that, since racists fly it, it must be racist, I'm allowed to decide that since people fly it who simply see it as a symbol of southern life, it must simply be a symbol of southern life.
And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."
Funny that you call this a "debate." Many people in this thread have pointed out how inseparable the ideas of "Confederacy" and "slavery" are; PantsB went so far as to produce primary historical sources that demonstrate how slavery was not only the primary reason for secession but practically the only issue the Confederacy cared about. You, on the other hand, just assert that it can mean something else. You make this assertion over and over again. We're still waiting for an argument.
The argument is that they do not agree with you that is what it means. It is not a rational argument. But they believe it with the same conviction you believe the opposite. Good luck changing their minds. The only way you are going to is by forcing them not to grow up in the south.
I guess I have to make the distinction in my head that there are many, many, many people here who, if given the choice between an afternoon spent together and eye surgery, I'd choose the latter. But can any of you honestly say that you don't think the same about the residents of your town/state/region?
In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.
Strange, indeed.
I find it difficult to believe, given that I STILL use it in that manner occasionally. I didn't pick it up from Dukes of Hazard, people.
And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."
read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.
But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.
whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States
remind me...who shot first?
edit: it was the war bit I'm concerned with. and the owing allegiance.
In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.
Strange, indeed.
They're doing it to annoy you, so you'll go back to wherever you came from.
In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.
Strange, indeed.
Y'all keep meeting the wrong people. I mean, this is probably in convenience stores and other shops, yeah? You think those are our valedictorians you're talking to?
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.
OK this is some serious bullshit right here. Nobody in this thread has said anything like that (except maybe Thanatos; his "y'all" comment was out of line). In fact there have been several southerners in this thread who have agreed that waving the Confederate flag is bad. Stop trying to obscure the issue.
"Y'all" while perhaps not morally repugnant is annoying as hell, completely unnecessary (see vosotros) and illogical if broken down since the phrase "you all" is not used. That has about as much to do with the Confederate flag as "wicked" has to do with Boston Puritanism into the mid-1900s
In their defense, this is coming from people who think "y'all" is a word.
Y'all is a fine word; it's a contraction between you and all formed in the standard manner. It also fulfills a needed function, as modern English otherwise lacks a second person plural personal pronoun. So lay off y'all.
If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
I will cede that using y'all as a singular is indefensible.
"Y'all" while perhaps not morally repugnant is annoying as hell, completely unnecessary (see vosotros) and illogical if broken down since the phrase "you all" is not used. That has about as much to do with the Confederate flag as "wicked" has to do with Boston Puritanism into the mid-1900s
And what is your preferred method of addressing a group? And do you use this phrase 100% of the time without deviation?
"Y'all" while perhaps not morally repugnant is annoying as hell, completely unnecessary (see vosotros) and illogical if broken down since the phrase "you all" is not used. That has about as much to do with the Confederate flag as "wicked" has to do with Boston Puritanism into the mid-1900s
And what is your preferred method of addressing a group? And do you use this phrase 100% of the time without deviation?
And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."
read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.
But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.
Well, from the perspective of the Union, they committed treason when they fired on a U.S. military base, and seized U.S. military assets. And then, of course, there's the fact that the South was basically a client state of the North, the ultimate welfare queen, if you will; you don't get to just take your money and run. In addition, the South didn't even try to negotiate, they just decided "fuck all y'all, we want our own, personal black people" and went to war over it. This isn't quite East Timor we're talking about, here.
"Y'all" while perhaps not morally repugnant is annoying as hell, completely unnecessary (see vosotros) and illogical if broken down since the phrase "you all" is not used. That has about as much to do with the Confederate flag as "wicked" has to do with Boston Puritanism into the mid-1900s
And what is your preferred method of addressing a group? And do you use this phrase 100% of the time without deviation?
I can't speak for pants, but I use the word 'you', as it is the plural form of the word 'you'. If there is a southerner in the room I have been known to use the words 'you (plural)' to avoid confusion.
If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.
Strange, indeed.
They're doing it to annoy you, so you'll go back to wherever you came from.
*adds "passive-aggressive" to list of Southern stereotypes*
And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."
read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.
But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.
Man, you really need to learn what treason is or something. It is verifiable fact that every single Confederate state had ratified the U.S. constitution, basically agreeing that the document bound them together with the other states and that they and their citizens would abide by the law set forth by it. By breaking away unlawfully and then waging war against the United States, in contravention of their earlier agreement, they committed treason. How fucking hard is it for you to understand this? There's no wiggle room, or different perspective, or mitigating circumstance. They broke the law they'd agreed to abide by and turned on the nation they'd sworn allegiance to.
And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."
read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.
But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.
Man, you really need to learn what treason is or something. It is verifiable fact that every single Confederate state had ratified the U.S. constitution, basically agreeing that the document bound them together with the other states and that they and their citizens would abide by the law set forth by it. By breaking away unlawfully and then waging war against the United States, in contravention of their earlier agreement, they committed treason. How fucking hard is it for you to understand this? There's no wiggle room, or different perspective, or mitigating circumstance. They broke the law they'd agreed to abide by and turned on the nation they'd sworn allegiance to.
And if you want to get into what it actually means, it means "We are the Confederate army/navy."
read: we support treason. with violence. to preserve slavery.
The south didn't give "aid and comfort" to the enemy. The south was the enemy. It also didn't attempt to overthrow the government of the US, simply to remove itself from it. You can't commit treason against a country you're not a member of. Now, whether the Union recognized the Confederacy as a separate country is another story.
But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.
whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States
remind me...who shot first?
Again, when the war started, the south was the CSA. Fort Sumter was seen as an enemy occupation of sovereign territory. What the Union thought of it only mattered after they'd won the war.
And again, saying it was "fought over slavery" is like saying WW2 was "fought over land." Slavery was how the southern economy ran, and having it suddenly removed would literally plunge the south into poverty. Kind of like what happened when the North won the war, and the South was plunged into poverty. Now, having your economy based on free labor provided by slaves wasn't exactly the most humanitarian thing to do, but do you actually expect half a country to just say "Sure, we'll turn into a bunch of poor dirt farmers for the next two centuries" without putting up a fight?
If that were how anyone actually used it, that would make sense. Except they don't, they use it in the singular, too.
Well that's exactly how I use it. I honestly haven't heard anyone use "y'all" to refer to a single person outside of television and film.
I keep hearing this. I find it strange that the scant handful of times I've been in the South, I heard it used like this all the fucking time, yet lifelong Southerners have never in their lives heard it.
Strange, indeed.
They're doing it to annoy you, so you'll go back to wherever you came from.
*adds "passive-aggressive" to list of Southern stereotypes*
I already get accused to not "bein' from around here" due to the fact that I pronounce my "E"s the way they should be pronounced, and not like "I"s. For instance, "I write with a pen, I sew with a pin" and "Get."
I already get accused to not "bein' from around here" due to the fact that I pronounce my "E"s the way they should be pronounced, and not like "I"s. For instance, "I write with a pen, I sew with a pin" and "Get."
I was ordering at a restaurant not five miles from the house where I grew up and the waitress said "Are you from around here?"
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...well, fuck. OK, maybe I have been in such a situation, but illiterate folks aside, most of us don't do that!
Strange, indeed.
But considering that you seem to be just another northerner who thinks he's better than everyone in the south, it's kind of pointless debating it with you.
The argument is that they do not agree with you that is what it means. It is not a rational argument. But they believe it with the same conviction you believe the opposite. Good luck changing their minds. The only way you are going to is by forcing them not to grow up in the south.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States
remind me...who shot first?
edit: it was the war bit I'm concerned with. and the owing allegiance.
Y'all keep meeting the wrong people. I mean, this is probably in convenience stores and other shops, yeah? You think those are our valedictorians you're talking to?
OK this is some serious bullshit right here. Nobody in this thread has said anything like that (except maybe Thanatos; his "y'all" comment was out of line). In fact there have been several southerners in this thread who have agreed that waving the Confederate flag is bad. Stop trying to obscure the issue.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
y'all is singular.
alls y'all is plural.
just to clear that up.
And what is your preferred method of addressing a group? And do you use this phrase 100% of the time without deviation?
I can't speak for pants, but I use the word 'you', as it is the plural form of the word 'you'. If there is a southerner in the room I have been known to use the words 'you (plural)' to avoid confusion.
Man, you really need to learn what treason is or something. It is verifiable fact that every single Confederate state had ratified the U.S. constitution, basically agreeing that the document bound them together with the other states and that they and their citizens would abide by the law set forth by it. By breaking away unlawfully and then waging war against the United States, in contravention of their earlier agreement, they committed treason. How fucking hard is it for you to understand this? There's no wiggle room, or different perspective, or mitigating circumstance. They broke the law they'd agreed to abide by and turned on the nation they'd sworn allegiance to.
"All y'all" (As in "All y'all need to shut the shit up!")is actually more common I think than "y'all" on it's own.
edit: I mean, who doesn't know to use "dudette?"
zing of the day
you
edit: also maybe don't stare at one person while you do it. its not perfect...
And again, saying it was "fought over slavery" is like saying WW2 was "fought over land." Slavery was how the southern economy ran, and having it suddenly removed would literally plunge the south into poverty. Kind of like what happened when the North won the war, and the South was plunged into poverty. Now, having your economy based on free labor provided by slaves wasn't exactly the most humanitarian thing to do, but do you actually expect half a country to just say "Sure, we'll turn into a bunch of poor dirt farmers for the next two centuries" without putting up a fight?
thats cause y'all is singular. despite the obvious contraction it isn't plural.