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Octuplets & Being a single mother with 14 children.

SmallLadySmallLady Registered User regular
edited February 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
Lots of diffrent opinions in the news, but how about D&D weighs in on the following questions:

- is it ethical to have invitro when you are a single mother with 6 kids? if yes, what about using 8 embrios?
- is it ethical to "sell the story" in order to support said children.
- Opinion on a lack of sponsorship that the family is getting due to the mother being a single mother.
- Opinion on why somebody would want to have that many children.



News Articles:
Only Child Syndrome?
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/OnCall/story?id=6810491&page=1
Mom wants 2 Million for Story & TV Show
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedishrag/2009/02/octopulets-mom.html
Mom had 2 workers compensation claims
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4516607/Octuplets-mother-had-filed-two-workers-compensation-claims.html
California Probing Octuplets Case
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/05/earlyshow/health/main4777292.shtml
Octuplets highly unlikely in Canada, expert says
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090204/IVF_octuplets_090204/20090204?hub=TopStories
Octuplets, Their mom and the Law
http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/02/03/napolitano_octuplets/
Birth of US Octuplets Raises Ethical Debate
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7B7E85043D-5DC6-421F-95D4-3B2699A76161%7D)&language=EN
Octuplets Mom "Dulged" by offers
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7869345.stm

SmallLady on
"we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
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Posts

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Quite frankly I think they should ban in vitro. There are plenty of children in this world with nothing, who just want a family.

    People get off on the fact it's "Theirs" and if they adopt it's not really. My girlfriend was adopted and she doesn't advertise the fact, when someone brings up adoption there's always at least one crazy cunt who feels the need to point out that adopted kids just aren't the same, and that it's not REALLY like having a child. If you want to see angry, that's about where to look.

    Fuck those people, they should be sterilized.

    This crazy bitch should have been sterilized when she was trying to get knocked up as a teenager.

    edit:

    I think the mental health of the woman should be in question at this point, and they shouldn't have allowed her to have the additional children. Making babies in this society is much like religion, you can get away with just about anything relating to it if you play the right card. It concerns me that no one really thought of the taxpayer burden and safety and health of the children. This womans mother is doing nearly all of the raising at is is out of guilt and a desire to not have the current crop starve. From what I read last week she plans on washing her hands of the entire thing very soon.

  • Greg USNGreg USN Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Quite frankly I think they should ban in vitro...

    I disagree completely. If people are free to have abortions they should be free to have fertility treatments.
    That being said. After have 6 kids she should have been denied subsequent treatments, if not she should have NEVER been allowed to have 8 at once.

    She is also a winner because she has been bleeding CA for workers comp for 10 years.

    Edit:
    the Tax payers also get to pay for the tremendous cost of her prenatal, delivery, and postnatal care. Hurray!

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  • CangoFettCangoFett Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Now, im not fan of the idea of 14 kids.

    But ive seen it done, very well. Saw a documentary about, I think it was a mormon family. They never used any sort of birth control, just had sex whenever they felt like it. Aparrently alot. They had like, 14 kids, ages 17 to baby stroller. Every single person in that family seemed very responsible and hard working. Cool people, overall. They lived in a large house that their father/older brothers built. Had one van for getting groceries and another for driving everyone to the grocery store. They had organized systems for the little details, like getting laundry done.


    All in all, a far more functional/organized/loving family than some of the peices of crap that I have seen in my town, that have only 1 or 2 kids.


    So, you really get 2 options;

    1) Let people do as they will

    2) Place laws on who can reproduce and when.


    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.

  • Greg USNGreg USN Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    CangoFett wrote: »

    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.

    Well said. I don't want us to be the next China.

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  • BrotherVoodooBrotherVoodoo Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    One article I read said that she had the 6 kids (including one set of twins) originally and "just wanted 1 more," ended up with 8 more. So I don't think she wanted 14 kids, but wanting half that number is still a bit weird to me.

    So the fuck what? I want a car made out of diamonds. But I would feel like a jackass driving it, knowing what a retarded thing to do it would be. Fuck.
    CangoFett wrote: »
    2) Place laws on who can reproduce and when.


    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.

    ...well besides the fact that I'm not completely opposed to number 2, we should be able to tax the shit out of people like that. In this documentary, how were these people making money to support a billion kids and still take care of them?

    13669_988031669590_13908669_57296127_2429910_n.jpg
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    She's absolutely insane. What, six children weren't enough when you are living on welfare? None of the doctors gave any advice to her on this? Christ, some of these kids are barely going to know their mother. 14 children, ALL who are under seven in age, EIGHT who are of the same age...there is no way in hell she can have enough personal time with each of them.

    Seriously, the situation is fucked up. There are going to be some very troubled kids raised in that home.
    CangoFett wrote: »
    Now, im not fan of the idea of 14 kids.

    But ive seen it done, very well. Saw a documentary about, I think it was a mormon family. They never used any sort of birth control, just had sex whenever they felt like it. Aparrently alot. They had like, 14 kids, ages 17 to baby stroller. Every single person in that family seemed very responsible and hard working. Cool people, overall. They lived in a large house that their father/older brothers built. Had one van for getting groceries and another for driving everyone to the grocery store. They had organized systems for the little details, like getting laundry done.

    It's a bit different situation when you are rich and have two parents and kids of varying age. I don't think anyone thinks that big families can't be managed, after all, how many of our grandmothers/grandfathers had absolutely huge families and still managed to come off right?

    This though...this is insane.

  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    CangoFett wrote: »
    Now, im not fan of the idea of 14 kids.

    But ive seen it done, very well. Saw a documentary about, I think it was a mormon family. They never used any sort of birth control, just had sex whenever they felt like it. Aparrently alot. They had like, 14 kids, ages 17 to baby stroller. Every single person in that family seemed very responsible and hard working. Cool people, overall. They lived in a large house that their father/older brothers built. Had one van for getting groceries and another for driving everyone to the grocery store. They had organized systems for the little details, like getting laundry done.


    All in all, a far more functional/organized/loving family than some of the peices of crap that I have seen in my town, that have only 1 or 2 kids.


    So, you really get 2 options;

    1) Let people do as they will

    2) Place laws on who can reproduce and when.


    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.
    There's a difference between placing laws on reproduction, and not allowing a woman with no job or assets who already has 6 children receive invitro fertilization. It's like the bank bailout, how Obama's attempting to limit executive salary to corps that took bailout money to 500k. If you're living on government assistance, the government should have the right to place restrictions on that assistance.

    h1DI1.jpg
    All my fuckin life I lived a normal fuckin life
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    CangoFett wrote: »
    Now, im not fan of the idea of 14 kids.

    But ive seen it done, very well. Saw a documentary about, I think it was a mormon family. They never used any sort of birth control, just had sex whenever they felt like it. Aparrently alot. They had like, 14 kids, ages 17 to baby stroller. Every single person in that family seemed very responsible and hard working. Cool people, overall. They lived in a large house that their father/older brothers built. Had one van for getting groceries and another for driving everyone to the grocery store. They had organized systems for the little details, like getting laundry done.


    All in all, a far more functional/organized/loving family than some of the peices of crap that I have seen in my town, that have only 1 or 2 kids.


    So, you really get 2 options;

    1) Let people do as they will

    2) Place laws on who can reproduce and when.


    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.

    The way in vitro currently works is they implant a whole bunch of eggs, not just one. It's not having "a" baby. It's having a litter.

  • KevinNashKevinNash Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    CangoFett wrote: »
    Now, im not fan of the idea of 14 kids.

    But ive seen it done, very well. Saw a documentary about, I think it was a mormon family. They never used any sort of birth control, just had sex whenever they felt like it. Aparrently alot. They had like, 14 kids, ages 17 to baby stroller. Every single person in that family seemed very responsible and hard working. Cool people, overall. They lived in a large house that their father/older brothers built. Had one van for getting groceries and another for driving everyone to the grocery store. They had organized systems for the little details, like getting laundry done.


    All in all, a far more functional/organized/loving family than some of the peices of crap that I have seen in my town, that have only 1 or 2 kids.


    So, you really get 2 options;

    1) Let people do as they will

    2) Place laws on who can reproduce and when.


    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.

    The numerous suggestions in this thread recommending that we ban in-vitro are alarming.
    dispatch.o wrote:
    Fuck those people, they should be sterilized.

    You managed to say something even more alarming.

  • KevinNashKevinNash Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    CangoFett wrote: »
    Now, im not fan of the idea of 14 kids.

    But ive seen it done, very well. Saw a documentary about, I think it was a mormon family. They never used any sort of birth control, just had sex whenever they felt like it. Aparrently alot. They had like, 14 kids, ages 17 to baby stroller. Every single person in that family seemed very responsible and hard working. Cool people, overall. They lived in a large house that their father/older brothers built. Had one van for getting groceries and another for driving everyone to the grocery store. They had organized systems for the little details, like getting laundry done.


    All in all, a far more functional/organized/loving family than some of the peices of crap that I have seen in my town, that have only 1 or 2 kids.


    So, you really get 2 options;

    1) Let people do as they will

    2) Place laws on who can reproduce and when.


    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.
    There's a difference between placing laws on reproduction, and not allowing a woman with no job or assets who already has 6 children receive invitro fertilization. It's like the bank bailout, how Obama's attempting to limit executive salary to corps that took bailout money to 500k. If you're living on government assistance, the government should have the right to place restrictions on that assistance.

    So her in-vitro was payed for with government assistance? I thought everyone was supposed to have free health care.

  • SmallLadySmallLady Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    the part that gets me the most is HOW is it medically legal to implant EIGHT embryos at one time. Are there no procedures and oversight for IVF treatments in the US?

    from the one of the articles from the OP
    Spoiler:

    "we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    She's an idiot and, even worse, should any of her children live they will spread their idiotic genes to their children, and their children's children...

    Stupid humans. Without natural selection our planet is going to be populated by people who are all related.

    JKKaAGp.png
  • BrotherVoodooBrotherVoodoo Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Quite frankly I think they should ban in vitro. There are plenty of children in this world with nothing, who just want a family.

    People get off on the fact it's "Theirs" and if they adopt it's not really. My girlfriend was adopted and she doesn't advertise the fact, when someone brings up adoption there's always at least one crazy cunt who feels the need to point out that adopted kids just aren't the same, and that it's not REALLY like having a child. If you want to see angry, that's about where to look.

    Fuck those people, they should be sterilized.

    This crazy bitch should have been sterilized when she was trying to get knocked up as a teenager.

    edit:

    I think the mental health of the woman should be in question at this point, and they shouldn't have allowed her to have the additional children. Making babies in this society is much like religion, you can get away with just about anything relating to it if you play the right card. It concerns me that no one really thought of the taxpayer burden and safety and health of the children. This womans mother is doing nearly all of the raising at is is out of guilt and a desire to not have the current crop starve. From what I read last week she plans on washing her hands of the entire thing very soon.

    High-5 to this post.

    13669_988031669590_13908669_57296127_2429910_n.jpg
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    CangoFett wrote: »
    Now, im not fan of the idea of 14 kids.

    But ive seen it done, very well. Saw a documentary about, I think it was a mormon family. They never used any sort of birth control, just had sex whenever they felt like it. Aparrently alot. They had like, 14 kids, ages 17 to baby stroller. Every single person in that family seemed very responsible and hard working. Cool people, overall. They lived in a large house that their father/older brothers built. Had one van for getting groceries and another for driving everyone to the grocery store. They had organized systems for the little details, like getting laundry done.


    All in all, a far more functional/organized/loving family than some of the peices of crap that I have seen in my town, that have only 1 or 2 kids.


    So, you really get 2 options;

    1) Let people do as they will

    2) Place laws on who can reproduce and when.


    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.

    The way in vitro currently works is they implant a whole bunch of eggs, not just one. It's not having "a" baby. It's having a litter.

    Wrong wrong wrong! In vitro techniques have improved to the point where this is no longer how in vitro works. The numbers of women who have been having 6+ children has been going down.

    The reality is that there should be more industry oversight on in vitro techniques. This shouldn't happen.

    And fuck the people who said she should be sterilized, that's just sick.

    steam_sig.png
  • SmallLadySmallLady Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    CangoFett wrote: »
    Now, im not fan of the idea of 14 kids.

    But ive seen it done, very well. Saw a documentary about, I think it was a mormon family. They never used any sort of birth control, just had sex whenever they felt like it. Aparrently alot. They had like, 14 kids, ages 17 to baby stroller. Every single person in that family seemed very responsible and hard working. Cool people, overall. They lived in a large house that their father/older brothers built. Had one van for getting groceries and another for driving everyone to the grocery store. They had organized systems for the little details, like getting laundry done.


    All in all, a far more functional/organized/loving family than some of the peices of crap that I have seen in my town, that have only 1 or 2 kids.


    So, you really get 2 options;

    1) Let people do as they will

    2) Place laws on who can reproduce and when.


    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.

    The way in vitro currently works is they implant a whole bunch of eggs, not just one. It's not having "a" baby. It's having a litter.

    Wrong wrong wrong! In vitro techniques have improved to the point where this is no longer how in vitro works. The numbers of women who have been having 6+ children has been going down.

    The reality is that there should be more industry oversight on in vitro techniques. This shouldn't happen.

    And fuck the people who said she should be sterilized, that's just sick
    .

    For somebody her age she shouldn't of had more then 1 or 2 embryo's planted. not EIGHT.

    EIGHT.

    my god. she's not a dog.

    "we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    CangoFett wrote: »
    Now, im not fan of the idea of 14 kids.

    But ive seen it done, very well. Saw a documentary about, I think it was a mormon family. They never used any sort of birth control, just had sex whenever they felt like it. Aparrently alot. They had like, 14 kids, ages 17 to baby stroller. Every single person in that family seemed very responsible and hard working. Cool people, overall. They lived in a large house that their father/older brothers built. Had one van for getting groceries and another for driving everyone to the grocery store. They had organized systems for the little details, like getting laundry done.


    All in all, a far more functional/organized/loving family than some of the peices of crap that I have seen in my town, that have only 1 or 2 kids.


    So, you really get 2 options;

    1) Let people do as they will

    2) Place laws on who can reproduce and when.


    Surely theres no way that #2 could ever go wrong.

    The way in vitro currently works is they implant a whole bunch of eggs, not just one. It's not having "a" baby. It's having a litter.

    Wrong wrong wrong! In vitro techniques have improved to the point where this is no longer how in vitro works. The numbers of women who have been having 6+ children has been going down.

    The reality is that there should be more industry oversight on in vitro techniques. This shouldn't happen.

    And fuck the people who said she should be sterilized, that's just sick.

    This is exactly how in vitro works. They pump someone full of hormones and harvest a bunch of eggs. They fertilize the eggs and then implant a handful back in during the right part of the cycle. The normal option is to abort a small number if none had failed.

    In reality it should be entirely possible to implant the eggs one at time, but people don't normally have the money to have repeated procedures if they fail, so the solution is to drop in a bucket load. If you don't have the funds to go about it the proper and ethical way, you shouldn't be having children in the first fucking place.

    They shouldn't even be doing the damn things if they can't do it responsibly and precisely, but our society is so hung up on spawning and your value as a woman or even married couple is lower if you haven't spewed forth a little hooligan that we decided, "well, yeah it's not very exact but fuck it lets make babies!".

    Edit:

    The reason she had them is she didn't want the eggs destroyed. It wouldn't matter how well we could implant and carry to term in the case of a crazy bitch like this.

  • bezerk bobbezerk bob Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    In australia, we pay people to have kids. No joke. Any deadshit, slacker, feral or dole bludger gets money for crapping out kids. How anyone thought that would be a good idea is completely beyond me. Dont we have 8 billion people on this planet as it is? cant we start paying people to not have kids?

    You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are. -- Colonel Adolphus Busch
  • KevinNashKevinNash Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    bezerk bob wrote: »
    In australia, we pay people to have kids. No joke. Any deadshit, slacker, feral or dole bludger gets money for crapping out kids. How anyone thought that would be a good idea is completely beyond me. Dont we have 8 billion people on this planet as it is? cant we start paying people to not have kids?

    They do this in China. How it works is that you can only have 1 child. If you have a daughter you drown her because women are inferior to men and you of course want to have a son at some point but can't have any more kids. Then you rinse repeat this process until you have a son. If you have additional children beyond that you either have to get an abortion or go to prison.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Look I think we can strike a happy medium between not rewarding people already on the system for having more children and murdering female babies.

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Look I think we can strike a happy medium between not rewarding people already on the system for having more children and murdering female babies.

    If I had that many children, I would abort myself.

    steam_sig.png
  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I think IVF is a great scientific discovery, and with the advances that have been made it is becoming more realistic. The multiple births that were more common are becoming scarce, and other countries have actually regulated how many embryos can be implanted I believe.

    This is one sick woman, though. At her age as a single parent with no job and obviously trying to cash in there is something wrong. Something wrong with the doc, too. Although there is the whole "don't tell me what I can and can't do with my body!" aspect.

    The Dave and Kate + 8 shit is really annoying, too. They had twins from IVF then had 6 more. I can understand having another kid but they should have been more responsible. The woman has a huge entitlement complex - been quoted as saying that society owes her etc.

    E26cO.jpg
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I think we can all agree that if Kate Gosselin was drug behind some pick up truck for hours on end the whole world would be better for it.

  • bezerk bobbezerk bob Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    KevinNash wrote: »
    bezerk bob wrote: »
    In australia, we pay people to have kids. No joke. Any deadshit, slacker, feral or dole bludger gets money for crapping out kids. How anyone thought that would be a good idea is completely beyond me. Dont we have 8 billion people on this planet as it is? cant we start paying people to not have kids?

    They do this in China. How it works is that you can only have 1 child. If you have a daughter you drown her because women are inferior to men and you of course want to have a son at some point but can't have any more kids. Then you rinse repeat this process until you have a son. If you have additional children beyond that you either have to get an abortion or go to prison.

    I was thinking tax incentives not to have kids or something, although that would probably be unfair as well. I just think that at this point there are way too many people in the world for anyones good. I saw a documentary on sbs on the declining birth rate in italy and how the catholic church is spazzing out about it, Whats the big deal? there are app 58 million people in italy which is not a big country. Maybye a few less wouldnt hurt, which goes for almost everywhere.

    Also on checking the figures world pop is set at app 6.75 billion, not 8. My bad.

    You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are. -- Colonel Adolphus Busch
  • SmallLadySmallLady Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that if Kate Gosselin was drug behind some pick up truck for hours on end the whole world would be better for it.


    who?

    "we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    SmallLady wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that if Kate Gosselin was drug behind some pick up truck for hours on end the whole world would be better for it.


    who?

    TLC show John and Kate + 8 she is the most overbearing bitch in the world.

  • mugginnsmugginns Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    SmallLady wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that if Kate Gosselin was drug behind some pick up truck for hours on end the whole world would be better for it.


    who?

    TLC show John and Kate + 8 she is the most overbearing bitch in the world.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/997048/why_i_went_from_a_jon_kate_plus_8_supporter_pg2.html

    Damn, I didn't even see that she had a free tummy tuck. Basically they had twins with IVF, then had 6 more kids at once. At one point, and I can't find the quote, she said that she was entitled to a medicaid nurse for a long time (instead of the one year that is written in law) because society owed her for having IVF f' up even though she could have aborted a few of the kids like the docs told her.

    She gets tons of free shit, and from what I've seen of the show, treats her husband like shit and uses her position as media darling to push her ideas.

    E26cO.jpg
  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    This reminds me of a case in Denmark, a retarded couple had invitro to have a baby. When it was born the authorities took the baby away since they weren't able to care for it. If she has a mental illness I don't think she should be allowed to keep the children, they should be placed in foster care, with the publicity it shouldn't be hard to find homes. She needs to get some help.

    DQ0uv.png 5E984.png
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    mugginns wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    SmallLady wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that if Kate Gosselin was drug behind some pick up truck for hours on end the whole world would be better for it.


    who?

    TLC show John and Kate + 8 she is the most overbearing bitch in the world.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/997048/why_i_went_from_a_jon_kate_plus_8_supporter_pg2.html

    Damn, I didn't even see that she had a free tummy tuck. Basically they had twins with IVF, then had 6 more kids at once. At one point, and I can't find the quote, she said that she was entitled to a medicaid nurse for a long time (instead of the one year that is written in law) because society owed her for having IVF f' up even though she could have aborted a few of the kids like the docs told her.

    She gets tons of free shit, and from what I've seen of the show, treats her husband like shit and uses her position as media darling to push her ideas.

    My biggest problem is she whores her family out to better herself. And I know about whoring out your multiple birth for cash as I'm related to the Dionne Quintuplets.

  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I have no problem with couples that have trouble having children using IVF. But this lady already had 6 kids, obviously she isn't challenged in the reproduction department. I can't believe that she found a doctor that wsa willing to go through with this.

    Dumb Hero wrote: »
    "Okay, you take 2d4 damage from the ogre's dick impaling your 2inch anus"
    Hey, Satan.
  • DuffelDuffel Registered User
    edited February 2009
    If she really is mentally ill, wouldn't this constitute some sort of violation of the Hippocratic Oath?

  • SmallLadySmallLady Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    If she really is mentally ill, wouldn't this constitute some sort of violation of the Hippocratic Oath?


    the Oath is "Do no Harm" not, "know everything"


    there are lots of senarios where they would have had no idea that she already had 6 kids, was single, living with mom, ect.

    "we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2009
    And people say welfare queens don't exist.


    Fuck her.

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    Obs.gif
  • SmallLadySmallLady Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Obs wrote: »
    And people say welfare queens don't exist.


    Fuck her.


    just because there are people like her, does not mean they are the norm.

    "we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
  • DuffelDuffel Registered User
    edited February 2009
    SmallLady wrote: »
    the Oath is "Do no Harm" not, "know everything"


    there are lots of senarios where they would have had no idea that she already had 6 kids, was single, living with mom, ect.
    I figured her obstetrician/fertility counselor/whatever asked a few questions like that.

    I was also thinking of the health consequences of carrying 8 children. It seems incredible to me that someone could survive that.

    Of course I guess they can't force you to abort a few of them, even if the mother's health is in danger, without her say-so. Where would the line fall between "right to choose to abort or carry to term" and "suicidal to the point where medical personnel should intervene"?

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I have a feeling child protective services visits will be in her future.

  • KistraKistra Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    mugginns wrote: »
    I think IVF is a great scientific discovery, and with the advances that have been made it is becoming more realistic. The multiple births that were more common are becoming scarce, and other countries have actually regulated how many embryos can be implanted I believe.

    At this point the standard is to implant one embryo in women without uterine deformities or specific forms of infertility which make implantation less likely. Even then you only implant two to three.

    I think it was horribly irresponsible of her doctor to have placed 8 at once. The embryos were already harvested and fertilized which is the expensive part and they were already old. It would have been just as easy to insert two a month until one took, the extra months of waiting wouldn't have made a huge impact on the others.

    Animal Crossing: City Folk Lissa in Filmore 3179-9580-0076
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Its kind of awesome how supposedly pro-choice people turn into fucking monsters whenever someone has more than the 'approved' number of kids. Whatever number that is.

    Christ, guys. Forced sterilisation? In vitro conception bans? Are you people that fucking stupid?

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I don't care if someone has a lot of children.

    I do care if someone mistreats children by having too many to care for.

    I also have yet to hear a compelling argument for in vitro. The only reason I could ever see it being of use is if there is a population dying out without it and you want to preserve their genetic diversity just in case they're immune to the zombie plague or some crap. Otherwise it's just a way to say Fuck You Orphans.

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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    And how many orphans have you adopted, you jackass?

    Your position is logically incoherent and thoroughly ill thought out. Shit, where do I even start?

    First, if you're worried about child mistreatment, then you need to focus on arguing that the children should be monitored, not hauled off without any evidence of mistreatment. And no, "they have a lot of siblings" is not evidence.

    Second, you're arguing that no-one has any legal obligation to keep fetuses they've generated themselves, but if they can't generate them without a doctor's help they have to...what, take what the state gives them? Do they get a choice in which kid is dumped on them, or do they get to go hunt up one they like the looks of? either way you're creating miles and miles of fuckery.

    Unbelievable.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I would be an unhealthy person to be raised by, and I do not have the funds to raise a child. I would be a jackass if I adopted a child, not to mention fathering one. If I was forced to raise a child, however, I'd adopt. My genes aren't so amazing that I simply must personally add to the population when instead some poor kid without a family could, you know, have one. Please drop the raging thing. It doesn't help your argument, and will ruin any chance for rational disourse if you persist. If you cannot drop the raging thing, I'll assume you don't want to be replied to.

    The woman has a mental problem, and she intended to subject at least seven children to it. Even if her intentions are good, this is very likely to fuck the kids up and give them shitty problems the rest of their lives. I find this less than satisfactory.

    As for in vitro, I'm aware that it's impractical to ban it because of humans being shitbags, but the species would likely be better off without it, though of course they'd have to get over themselves first.

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