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New comic 2/18

1679111218

Comments

  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Oh come off it Javen.

    Deep down, you know you want to strafe.

  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Blaket wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of other black characters in RE5 that are black and not zombies. Your partner, for one

    Well, the whole light-skinned "good" African with Western, white, middle-class accepted modes of speech and behavior is, unfortunately, actually another Hollywood stereotype.

    Unless I'm wrong, she's not really presented as in any way similar to or a part of the group of africans that are being turned into zombies, no? So that entire group of people is still dehumanized. What's needed are people who look like them, speak like them, and still humanized and relatable. Having some completely different Westernized, light-skinned black person who doesn't look, act, or speak anything like the people being dehumanized really doesn't help, especially when the only "good" black person conforms to white standards that still plague this country today (like how among most African Americans, as well as Hollywood and the fashion industry, light skin is considered more attractive than dark skin).

    Like I said, having a black protagonist doesn't make the problem go away by itself.

    I would really like this further explained.

    How come you can't have a black person with middle-class accepted mode of speech? I see this complaint alot when there are black people portrayed.

    Because I am not trying to be mean here but if we were to say look percentage wise at say black doctors, the majority of them would come from middle class families as opposed to people from the ghetto. So why is it surprise that they speak where they are from?

    No, what he's saying is that having a black character with more 'relatable' Westernized speech and mannerisms, etc., doesn't help to undo the portrayal as the Africans in the game as mindless/violent/savages, because she is then patently not a part of that group at all.

    nemosig.png
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Javen wrote: »
    I mean let's be serious for a minute, here.

    Are any of you complaining about this not going to buy the game for the same reason?

    I'm going to wait until it drops in price at least because the demo was really underwhelming.

    But not out of principle because of any racist bollocks.

    I'd buy a Ku Klux Revolution game if it was fun enough. Morals be damned.

    scarab you have mental problems
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I actually don't mind the RE controls at all.

    It's always the way they've controlled. As far as survival horror goes I much prefer the more deliberate, yet slightly unrealistic movement.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Blaket wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of other black characters in RE5 that are black and not zombies. Your partner, for one

    Well, the whole light-skinned "good" African with Western, white, middle-class accepted modes of speech and behavior is, unfortunately, actually another Hollywood stereotype.

    Unless I'm wrong, she's not really presented as in any way similar to or a part of the group of africans that are being turned into zombies, no? So that entire group of people is still dehumanized. What's needed are people who look like them, speak like them, and still humanized and relatable. Having some completely different Westernized, light-skinned black person who doesn't look, act, or speak anything like the people being dehumanized really doesn't help, especially when the only "good" black person conforms to white standards that still plague this country today (like how among most African Americans, as well as Hollywood and the fashion industry, light skin is considered more attractive than dark skin).

    Like I said, having a black protagonist doesn't make the problem go away by itself.

    I would really like this further explained.

    How come you can't have a black person with middle-class accepted mode of speech? I see this complaint alot when there are black people portrayed.

    Because I am not trying to be mean here but if we were to say look percentage wise at say black doctors, the majority of them would come from middle class families as opposed to people from the ghetto. So why is it surprise that they speak where they are from?

    No, what he's saying is that having a black character with more 'relatable' speech and mannerisms, etc., doesn't help to undo the portrayal as the Africans in the game as mindless/violent/savages, because she is then patently not a part of that group at all.

    No that's cool I get that.

    But I have heard this complaint in that they don't "sound black enough" before and I am genuinely curious about it.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    It's kind of like when Al Sharpton spoke out against Obama because he acted too white.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • Volucrisus AedriusVolucrisus Aedrius Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    My problem with Resident Evil 5 is that the enemies are no longer entirely zombies, they're merely parasitically infected humans. This zombie franchise has been stripped of its zombies, and now thousands of slow shambling zombies are out of a job. Dead Rising 2 may come with a stimulus of needed jobs for the shambling zombie market, but with all Fast Zombies capable of slowing down to meet the reduced speed requirements, many exclusively slow zombies will again find it increasingly hard to find employment in today's spiraling economy.

    Back to you, Tom.

    Dex Dynamo wrote: »
    Keith wrote:
    What would be your ultimate slam dunk??
    I would dunk it so hard my parents would love each other again
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Blaket wrote: »
    No, what he's saying is that having a black character with more 'relatable' speech and mannerisms, etc., doesn't help to undo the portrayal as the Africans in the game as mindless/violent/savages, because she is then patently not a part of that group at all.

    No that's cool I get that.

    But I have heard this complaint in that they don't "sound black enough" before and I am genuinely curious about it.

    Oh, that.

    It kind of varies with intent, I think.

    On the one hand it can be some seriously racist bullshit, the idea that a well-spoken, middle-class black is not "believable".

    On the other hand there is a strong desire in a lot of TV/Movie circles to want to present "safe" black characters, that aren't too different or strong or threatening.

    Or it can dissolve into some ridiculously convoluted and idiotic identity politics, a la what Javen said.

    nemosig.png
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    My problem with Resident Evil 5 is that the enemies are no longer entirely zombies, they're merely parasitically infected humans. This zombie franchise has been stripped of its zombies, and now thousands of slow shambling zombies are out of a job. Dead Rising 2 may come with a stimulus of needed jobs for the shambling zombie market, but with all Fast Zombies capable of slowing down to meet the reduced speed requirements, many exclusively slow zombies will again find it increasingly hard to find employment in today's spiraling economy.

    Back to you, Tom.

    Thanks Diane.

    This just in, Family Guy references suck ass. More at eleven.

    scarab you have mental problems
  • KungFuKungFu Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I mean did anyone here even play Fallout 3

    Theft 4 Bread
  • DavoidDavoid Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    KungFu wrote: »
    I mean did anyone here even play Fallout 3

    what is a fallout

    rqv6.png
  • RaneadosRaneados Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    fall

    out?

    Dubh wrote: »
    Rane is the future of ancient greek tradition
  • edited February 2009
    Blaket wrote: »

    No that's cool I get that.

    But I have heard this complaint in that they don't "sound black enough" before and I am genuinely curious about it.

    That's mostly stupid.

    But a more detailed complaint could go sort of like this:

    Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional. The only time people tend to break out of this at all is the "color-blind" character, where their race is literally just completely ignored. I think a lot of people find this disingenuous though, especially black people, because it's hard to be black and not notice your own race, and have it influence your life. So a character who is written "color-blind" isn't perfect, though in my own opinion it's still better than a stupid stereotype.

    Now some media of course actually manages to portray black characters that are, you know, properly fleshed out and well-written but in a race-conscious way.

    I think if those kinds of characters weren't so rare, actually the concept of the color-blind character would be completely fine.

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Okay... This looks bad.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I thought these enemies were supposed to be neither strictly zombies nor strictly Ganados?

    but I might be misremembering

    also, are the controls basically like the RE4 controls or what? 'cause I was fine with those

    zw3k8eu.gif
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer I'm Speed Racer and I drive real fast. I drive real fast, I'm gonna last.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional.

    Let's be fair here.

    Portrayal of people in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes.

    The controls are the same as RE4's, but for some reason I felt like I was struggling with them a lot more in this game than I was in the other. I think it's just because the areas they dump you into in the demo are actually kind of hard.

    speedsig2_zps388d2098.jpg
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Racism is about intent and beliefs. I don't know how you could think of it otherwise.

    A white man shooting a black man is not inherently racist, that's the point of the comic. People were calling RE5 racist the moment that a white protagonist was shown facing black antagonists.

    I guess we better not make any games with black people in them. That'll avoid racism for certain.

    Steam name: munkus_beaver
    Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
    Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): munkusbeaver
    Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
  • DavoidDavoid Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    We should stop making games with people in them

    rqv6.png
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    The only thing you are going to convince game developers of doing is that they should never set their games in Africa for any reason.

    Hell, I think this is the only one ever.

    Steam name: munkus_beaver
    Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
    Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): munkusbeaver
    Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
  • Volucrisus AedriusVolucrisus Aedrius Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    My problem with Resident Evil 5 is that the enemies are no longer entirely zombies, they're merely parasitically infected humans. This zombie franchise has been stripped of its zombies, and now thousands of slow shambling zombies are out of a job. Dead Rising 2 may come with a stimulus of needed jobs for the shambling zombie market, but with all Fast Zombies capable of slowing down to meet the reduced speed requirements, many exclusively slow zombies will again find it increasingly hard to find employment in today's spiraling economy.

    Back to you, Tom.

    Thanks Diane.

    This just in, Family Guy references suck ass. More at eleven.

    Wait, family guy did this? Goddamnit.

    Dex Dynamo wrote: »
    Keith wrote:
    What would be your ultimate slam dunk??
    I would dunk it so hard my parents would love each other again
  • Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User
    edited February 2009
  • edited February 2009
    Also it's worth mentioning that white middle-class modes of speech and behavior shouldn't be taken at face value as superior or necessary.

    Certainly there are plenty of very intelligent and successful people who "sound black" or "dress black" or in whatever other way conform to a more stereotypical image of African Americans, and why in the hell should they have to adopt different mannerisms or styles of dress?

    I think it's people like this who feel most left out of all in media portrayal.

    Like, a guy I knew in Ohio, who dressed "ghetto," smoked wine-flavored Black N Milds, used black slang, and generally disliked white people but he graduated with honors from Princeton, as did his brother. We shouldn't consider those things incongruous, but most of us do, thanks to widespread media stereotypes

    People like him don't really have any representation in American media whatsoever.

  • The Far SideThe Far Side __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2009
    t-t-they make wine flavoured cigs? what

    33aqfwk.jpg
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Whenever I think about stereotypical statistics, I think of young black males that have been in prison once

    Steam name: munkus_beaver
    Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
    Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): munkusbeaver
    Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional. The only time people tend to break out of this at all is the "color-blind" character, where their race is literally just completely ignored. I think a lot of people find this disingenuous though, especially black people, because it's hard to be black and not notice your own race, and have it influence your life. So a character who is written "color-blind" isn't perfect, though in my own opinion it's still better than a stupid stereotype.

    Now some media of course actually manages to portray black characters that are, you know, properly fleshed out and well-written but in a race-conscious way.

    I think if those kinds of characters weren't so rare, actually the concept of the color-blind character would be completely fine.

    Developed characters of any skin color are fucking rare.

    1LRdqui.png
  • edited February 2009
    Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional.

    Let's be fair here.

    Portrayal of people in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes.

    It's true, but for white people, who are considered "normal" in American media, those stereotypes are things like "frat boy" and "nerd" and whatever else. For black characters, those stereotypes are all defined primarily by their race.

    The problem is that white people are considered "normal." Anyone else is racialized. White characters, just like white people in America, aren't defined at all by their race. Black characters, as well as other minority characters, are defined that way in the public eye.

    Just think about this, for instance: we don't find anything unusual about black people seeing movies with all or almost entirely all white characters, but we do consider it weird for white people to attend movies with predominately black casts.

    I mean, just think about it -- there are "black" movies. Are there "white" movies? No, of course not, we consider those just "regular" or "normal" movies. This is because whites are considered normal and not identified or defined by their race

  • PharezonPharezon Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Although I am pretty sure that the black dude in the second panel is staring right at her chest.

    Steam name: munkus_beaver
    Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
    Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): munkusbeaver
    Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
  • Speed RacerSpeed Racer I'm Speed Racer and I drive real fast. I drive real fast, I'm gonna last.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Basically, portrayal of African Americans in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes, all fairly one dimensional.

    Let's be fair here.

    Portrayal of people in contemporary American media tends to fit into a couple prescribed stereotypes.

    It's true, but for white people, who are considered "normal" in American media, those stereotypes are things like "frat boy" and "nerd" and whatever else. For black characters, those stereotypes are all defined primarily by their race.

    The problem is that white people are considered "normal." Anyone else is racialized. White characters, just like white people in America, aren't defined at all by their race. Black characters, as well as other minority characters, are defined that way in the public eye.

    Just think about this, for instance: we don't find anything unusual about black people seeing movies with all or almost entirely all white characters, but we do consider it weird for white people to attend movies with predominately black casts.

    I mean, just think about it -- there are "black" movies. Are there "white" movies? No, of course not, we consider those just "regular" or "normal" movies. This is because whites are considered normal and not identified or defined by their race
    Yeah alright fair enough.

    speedsig2_zps388d2098.jpg
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Okay... This looks bad.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Well hey there lady

    zw3k8eu.gif
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"

    Steam name: munkus_beaver
    Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
    Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): munkusbeaver
    Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
  • edited February 2009
    Racism is about intent and beliefs. I don't know how you could think of it otherwise.

    A white man shooting a black man is not inherently racist, that's the point of the comic. People were calling RE5 racist the moment that a white protagonist was shown facing black antagonists.

    Actually that's not really true at all. The vast majority of the criticism did not revolve around simply a white character shooting black characters, but many other images in the game, and the context of that violence.

    Additionally, if you read the newspost, you would have seen that they did actually find the game to present some uncomfortable imagery.

    Also, you don't seem to have read anything anyone said in this thread about this issue.

    I, for instance, specifically pointed out how it's not the white character shooting black characters that's inherently racist, it's the the stereotypes presented.

    Also, Munkus, tell me what you think about this:

    Bill O'Reilly went to a famous soul food restaurant in Harlem, and on his show the next day talked at length about how "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"

    Now, he of course insisted that that segment wasn't racist at all, because he didn't intend it to be.

    However, clearly, the fact that he thinks he needs to explain that people weren't calling waiters motherfuckers in a soul food restaurant indicates that he's internalized and is propagating stereotypes and, is in fact, racist.

  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pharezon showing us pictures of black people does not stop the game from having racist overtones.

    The issue really isn't a white dude (and a pleasantly lightened black friend) shooting black people.

    It's the issue of the beat down of the white girl and the savages thing. Those are the main issues.

  • edited February 2009
    There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"

    One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated

  • edited February 2009
    There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"


    Do you actually think whites are getting short-shrifted here? Are we being oppressed by PC watchdogs or something?

    I don't want to assume anything and respond before clarifying what you're saying here.

  • PharezonPharezon Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Blaket wrote: »
    Pharezon showing us pictures of black people does not stop the game from having racist overtones.

    The issue really isn't a white dude (and a pleasantly lightened black friend) shooting black people.

    It's the issue of the beat down of the white girl and the savages thing. Those are the main issues.

    Not saying it doesn't it was more in reference to Backwards.

    jkZziGc.png
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    I can see how that isn't racist in two ways since his expectations would be for a soul food dining environment in harlem.

    If you tell me that you're gonna take me to a roadhouse outside of Jasper, I am going to have expectations too.

    Second, he could be speaking

    People act like human beings don't hear stories and conduct pattern recognition in their brains on a subconscious level, and that it's somehow evil for a person to have any sort of expectation and have it proved wrong.

    I'll tell you this: If I am walking in New York at night and I see a guy behind me in a hoodie and saggy pants, I'm gonna cross the street cause I'm afraid. If I see a guy behind me wearing a suit I won't do shit.

    Steam name: munkus_beaver
    Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
    Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): munkusbeaver
    Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"

    One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated

    I didn't realize that the Matrix was meant to target white audiences.

    Best go tell my asian buds that they were out of the demographic.

    Steam name: munkus_beaver
    Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
    Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): munkusbeaver
    Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"

    One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated

    I didn't realize that the Matrix was meant to target white audiences.

    Best go tell my asian buds that they were out of the demographic.

    I think what he meant was that it doesn't discriminate, ie it targets all audiences, whites included.

    scarab you have mental problems
  • Blake TBlake T Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Racism is about intent and beliefs. I don't know how you could think of it otherwise.

    A white man shooting a black man is not inherently racist, that's the point of the comic. People were calling RE5 racist the moment that a white protagonist was shown facing black antagonists.

    Actually that's not really true at all. The vast majority of the criticism did not revolve around simply a white character shooting black characters, but many other images in the game, and the context of that violence.

    Additionally, if you read the newspost, you would have seen that they did actually find the game to present some uncomfortable imagery.

    Also, you don't seem to have read anything anyone said in this thread about this issue.

    I, for instance, specifically pointed out how it's not the white character shooting black characters that's inherently racist, it's the the stereotypes presented.

    Also, Munkus, tell me what you think about this:

    Bill O'Reilly went to a famous soul food restaurant in Harlem, and on his show the next day talked at length about how "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"

    Now, he of course insisted that that segment wasn't racist at all, because he didn't intend it to be.

    However, clearly, the fact that he thinks he needs to explain that people weren't calling waiters motherfuckers in a soul food restaurant indicates that he's internalized and is propagating stereotypes and, is in fact, racist.

    Well no, isn't he saying, he more saying? Hey, I used to think this, (which was racist) but I have come to realise that this is not the case and I was wrong in believing that.

  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere MY FINEST CREATION oh nevermind it's deadRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    there are movies targeted to whites

    I dare you to find any non-white who wanted to see Beer For My Horses

    nHu0VJL.png
    My Youtube My Steam SMITE IGN: TDOTCRFH4 come SMITE with me
This discussion has been closed.