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Posts

  • edited February 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Let me put it this way:

    I would be surprised to walk into a Soul Food restaurant that is classy, prim and proper.

    Same way that I am surprised to find an upscale Mexican restaurant. Or, hell, a fucking upscale burger joint until they started building those down here too. Fucking love cheeburger and five guys, though. But man, first time I heard about it I was all "What the fuck? You mean...a sit-down burger joint? Uh...ok..."

    Well I don't know about classy prim and proper. Those are kind of vague, and potentially offensive. I guess it depends how you define those words.

    But finding an upscale mexican joint surprising is realistic, simply because there aren't many. The ones that do exist are fucking delicious, hot damn, but lord knows I lament there rarity.

    Now, finding it unusual that a place frequented by African Americans isn't run according to negative stereotypes of african americans is something else entirely.

    That's like being surprised that a Mexican restaurant has legal residents working inside. That's offensive.

    It's not offensive if it's accurate. (I don't know if it's accurate.)

    You'd have to know before hand the status of the employees of that specific restaurant.

    If you know for a fact that everyone in a taco joint is illegal, and then you come back one day and there's a legal resident working there, that might be surprising because you know factually the specific case at hand and aren't making inferences based on race.

    If you assume anyplace staffed with Mexican-Americans is going to be full of illegals, that's racist.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    All I am getting here is that Backwards is a racist.

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  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere MY FINEST CREATION oh nevermind it's deadRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Is a black guy unusual for wanting to see Beer for My Horses?

    I think I already said that that was the case!

    Also he would have poor taste in cinema.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    run according to negative stereotypes of african americans
    "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"
    Those are black stereotypes?

    If it's one of those movie theaters where you can also get dinner, sure.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • edited February 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"

    One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated

    But that's dumb because you could just arbitrarily say that across the board with any majority group even if the marketing team and the production team made no active effort. I mean that's like saying "Sophocles wrote with a distinct Greek bias." Yeah, of course he did, because he was Greek. That doesn't make his entire body of work rabidly nationalistic/ethnocentric.

    No but what I'm saying is whites aren't exactly suffering for a lack of movies targeted at them.

    But you're asserting without basis that these movies are targeted at whites. What if they're just targeted at "the moviegoing populace in general?" Maybe that population happens to be white, Christian, 50/50 split on gender, and has whatever distribution among ages and income levels? Just targeting "the vast body of customers in general" does not count as "specifically targeting whites."

    I'm not saying targeted at whites to the exclusion of other groups.

  • edited February 2009
    All I am getting here is that Backwards is a racist.

    explain

  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere MY FINEST CREATION oh nevermind it's deadRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    run according to negative stereotypes of african americans
    "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"
    Those are black stereotypes?

    if you talk to a racist enough person they probably are

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Is a black guy unusual for wanting to see Beer for My Horses?

    I think I already said that that was the case!

    Also he would have poor taste in cinema.

    The answer to the question is yes because it is a movie about a Toby Keith song.

    The fuck is that guy thinking?

    Steam name: munkus
    Pokemon X ID:
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  • KovakKovak did a lot of drugs married cher?Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    guys they do advertise to whites

    its called advertising to hipsters

  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Cloudman wrote: »
    cynic is racist against mantises

    fuck you and your anti mantis agenda

    When we actually meet the sentient mantis-people and some people will inevitably be prejudiced against them, I think the slur used against them should be "Zorak." As in, "those damned Zoraks are taking my jobs!"

    Or maybe we'll all use it. I don't know; they could be evil.

    :^:

    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • edited February 2009
    run according to negative stereotypes of african americans
    "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"
    Those are black stereotypes?

    vulgarity, rudeness, and use of the word motherfucker?

    Yes, those are negative stereotypes. Do I subscribe to them? No, but I don't have to subscribe to a stereotype to know it exists.

    Do you subscribe to the stereotype that women are less intelligent than men? If not, do you deny that it is a stereotype that exists, and is harmful to women when propagated and internalized?

  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"

    One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated

    But that's dumb because you could just arbitrarily say that across the board with any majority group even if the marketing team and the production team made no active effort. I mean that's like saying "Sophocles wrote with a distinct Greek bias." Yeah, of course he did, because he was Greek. That doesn't make his entire body of work rabidly nationalistic/ethnocentric.

    No but what I'm saying is whites aren't exactly suffering for a lack of movies targeted at them.

    But you're asserting without basis that these movies are targeted at whites. What if they're just targeted at "the moviegoing populace in general?" Maybe that population happens to be white, Christian, 50/50 split on gender, and has whatever distribution among ages and income levels? Just targeting "the vast body of customers in general" does not count as "specifically targeting whites."

    I'm not saying targeted at whites to the exclusion of other groups.

    Then why would you say that so many movies are targeted at whites because whites are considered raceless? That whole statement clearly implies that those movies are not also targeted at blacks or hispanics or whatever. Otherwise, why make the statement at all?

    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • edited February 2009

    Ok, so when you make assumptions about a Roadhouse outside of Bumfuck Alabama, you're being racist?

    Just because it is located in an area where blacks happen to be doesn't mean that it is racist to form an opinion of that area. If there are fucking murders going on outside the YMCA, I'm not racist for not wanting to go to the Y, even if it's located in harlem.


    If you avoid the YMCA because it is a locus of crime, that's fine.

    If you avoid the YMCA because it's frequented by blacks, and you assume that therefore it is crime-ridden, then it's racist.

    Do you see the difference?

    Munkus I'd really appreciate an answer to this because I think I phrased this question extremely clearly and we're both on the same page here, in terms of talking about the same thing

  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere MY FINEST CREATION oh nevermind it's deadRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    backwards just admit that you said something stupid and we can all move on to the next inane point contention

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  • edited February 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    There are no "white" movies because to imply that your movie is targeting a "white" audience would get the racism train brought down on your studio faster than you could say "Watermelon"

    One could argue that every movie targets white audiences unless otherwise implied or stated

    But that's dumb because you could just arbitrarily say that across the board with any majority group even if the marketing team and the production team made no active effort. I mean that's like saying "Sophocles wrote with a distinct Greek bias." Yeah, of course he did, because he was Greek. That doesn't make his entire body of work rabidly nationalistic/ethnocentric.

    No but what I'm saying is whites aren't exactly suffering for a lack of movies targeted at them.

    But you're asserting without basis that these movies are targeted at whites. What if they're just targeted at "the moviegoing populace in general?" Maybe that population happens to be white, Christian, 50/50 split on gender, and has whatever distribution among ages and income levels? Just targeting "the vast body of customers in general" does not count as "specifically targeting whites."

    I'm not saying targeted at whites to the exclusion of other groups.

    Then why would you say that so many movies are targeted at whites because whites are considered raceless? That whole statement clearly implies that those movies are not also targeted at blacks or hispanics or whatever. Otherwise, why make the statement at all?

    Because there is still an explicit effort on the part of the producers to make sure white audiences will see it. Not to the exclusion of anyone else, but that whites will see it.

  • BelruelBelruel naw Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    no way am i reading this whole thread to see if this was posted, but

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwNSNLPIfw

  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    run according to negative stereotypes of african americans
    "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"
    Those are black stereotypes?

    vulgarity, rudeness, and use of the word motherfucker?

    Yes, those are negative stereotypes. Do I subscribe to them? No, but I don't have to subscribe to a stereotype to know it exists.

    Do you subscribe to the stereotype that women are less intelligent than men? If not, do you deny that it is a stereotype that exists, and is harmful to women when propagated and internalized?
    I've never, ever heard that black people don't eat with forks.

    1LRdqui.png
  • redheadredhead Registered User
    edited February 2009
    backwards just admit that you said something stupid and we can all move on to the next inane point contention

    backwards doing a remarkable job of not saying stupid things despite being faced with the ever popular tactic of being snide, negative, picky, and never saying much of anything to support one's own position while nitpicking the other guy's extensively

    I'm impressed!

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I love Avenue Q and I love you by association.

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  • edited February 2009
    backwards just admit that you said something stupid and we can all move on to the next inane point contention

    what stupid thing did I say?

    The idea that whites are non-raced and others in America are racialized is a very common and well accepted opinion among people who study race in America

    it's not at all a radical, unusual, or uncommon position.

    I haven't said anything inflammatory, insulted anyone, been rude or condescending, and I've been exceedingly patient. What did I say that was stupid?

  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere MY FINEST CREATION oh nevermind it's deadRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Belruel stop making me love you

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    backwards just admit that you said something stupid and we can all move on to the next inane point contention

    what stupid thing did I say?

    The idea that whites are non-raced and others in America are racialized is a very common and well accepted opinion among people who study race in America

    it's not at all a radical, unusual, or uncommon position.

    I haven't said anything inflammatory, insulted anyone, been rude or condescending, and I've been exceedingly patient. What did I say that was stupid?

    So no racial stereotypes exist about white people?

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • edited February 2009
    run according to negative stereotypes of african americans
    "no one was vulgar or rude or loud, everyone ate with forks and napkins, no one was shouting 'mother fucker get me some iced tea'"
    Those are black stereotypes?

    vulgarity, rudeness, and use of the word motherfucker?

    Yes, those are negative stereotypes. Do I subscribe to them? No, but I don't have to subscribe to a stereotype to know it exists.

    Do you subscribe to the stereotype that women are less intelligent than men? If not, do you deny that it is a stereotype that exists, and is harmful to women when propagated and internalized?
    I've never, ever heard that black people don't eat with forks.

    That's just Bill O'Reilly's own personal racism, in that case.

    I should mention that he was there in the first place with Al Sharpton, because they had exchanged angry words about some race-related issue. So it was all very much in the context of race to begin with.

  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    BN, it seems like some of your statements here run along the lines of "if a group has a common, frequent trait that has less than 100% saturation within that group, it is bigoted to assume it when you see an individual of that group." I would suggest that it's not. Applying it blindly, without considering other, more important factors, might indicate bigotry, but otherwise it's just simple statistics. Or pattern recognition.

    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Javen wrote: »
    backwards just admit that you said something stupid and we can all move on to the next inane point contention

    what stupid thing did I say?

    The idea that whites are non-raced and others in America are racialized is a very common and well accepted opinion among people who study race in America

    it's not at all a radical, unusual, or uncommon position.

    I haven't said anything inflammatory, insulted anyone, been rude or condescending, and I've been exceedingly patient. What did I say that was stupid?

    So no racial stereotypes exist about white people?

    Whites are not considered raceless. They are simply the majority, and therefore the default in many cases when race is unspecified.

    hello massa, I jar jar binks
    I've overheard someone say "Don't say something is retarded, its not cool to make fun of retards. Just say its gay."
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Belruel wrote: »
    no way am i reading this whole thread to see if this was posted, but

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwNSNLPIfw

    I love this show.

    The best part of it is not in song.

    The bad news bears.

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  • BelruelBelruel naw Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    javen, i'm surprised at you!
    i find that racist!

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009

    Ok, so when you make assumptions about a Roadhouse outside of Bumfuck Alabama, you're being racist?

    Just because it is located in an area where blacks happen to be doesn't mean that it is racist to form an opinion of that area. If there are fucking murders going on outside the YMCA, I'm not racist for not wanting to go to the Y, even if it's located in harlem.


    If you avoid the YMCA because it is a locus of crime, that's fine.

    If you avoid the YMCA because it's frequented by blacks, and you assume that therefore it is crime-ridden, then it's racist.

    Do you see the difference?

    Munkus I'd really appreciate an answer to this because I think I phrased this question extremely clearly and we're both on the same page here, in terms of talking about the same thing

    Again, you're the one that is assuming that he made an assumption based on race alone and not anything else.

    Steam name: munkus
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    Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/
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  • edited February 2009
    Javen wrote: »
    backwards just admit that you said something stupid and we can all move on to the next inane point contention

    what stupid thing did I say?

    The idea that whites are non-raced and others in America are racialized is a very common and well accepted opinion among people who study race in America

    it's not at all a radical, unusual, or uncommon position.

    I haven't said anything inflammatory, insulted anyone, been rude or condescending, and I've been exceedingly patient. What did I say that was stupid?

    So no racial stereotypes exist about white people?

    Racial stereotypes may still exist, to some extent, but whites are still considered "normal"

    I'm not saying stereotypes about whites are OK

    Race-based stereotypes are generally detrimental to everyone, even those not in the race involved. If something is stereotypically white or black, not only does it limit a white or black person, but it also can limit someone of another race who wants to embrace what's perceived as a stereotype of someone else's race.

    However, just because stereotypes exist about whites, does not mean that white characters are seen as primarily or even importantly defined by their race. Black characters, hispanic characters, asian characters, and other minorities very frequently are, sometimes to the point where people in those groups can feel frustrated or alienated because they almost never see any characters who aren't defined this way.

    Such definition in media and culture can spill into real life too, which even worse

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    No wait, the Bad Idea Bears.

    Not Bad News.

    Still.

    Best part.

    Steam name: munkus
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    Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/
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  • ThatDudeOverThereThatDudeOverThere MY FINEST CREATION oh nevermind it's deadRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The bad news bears.

    We've found scientology!

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Belruel wrote: »
    javen, i'm surprised at you!
    i find that racist!

    well you're a little bit too
    I guess we're both a little bit racist

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User
    edited February 2009
    All I am getting here is that Backwards is a racist.

    I know you're not really serious, but

    why does every thread on the internet dealing with race always have to have one or two people pulling this lame fucking failure of a verbal judo?

    "Ah, but do you see? Truly you are the real racist here!"

    it's like some magic trick and they expect people to clap when the cloth is pulled away

    and nobody ever does because it is incredibly stupid

    nemosig.png
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    All I am getting here is that Backwards is a racist.

    I know you're not really serious, but

    why does every thread on the internet dealing with race always have to have one or two people pulling this lame fucking failure of a verbal judo?

    "Ah, but do you see? Truly you are the real racist here!"

    it's like some magic trick and they expect people to clap when the cloth is pulled away

    and nobody ever does because it is incredibly stupid

    The last time someone did that I made a Princess Pride joke and no one laughed.

    Heathens.

    bar-cc-1.jpg
  • BelruelBelruel naw Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    when i was out last night bogey was scandalized by us super racist whites
    we wore our hoods

  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    whites are still considered "normal"

    By whom?

    1LRdqui.png
  • BelruelBelruel naw Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    whites are still considered "normal"

    By whom?

    yeah dudes, where i live, being white is the minority.

  • edited February 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    BN, it seems like some of your statements here run along the lines of "if a group has a common, frequent trait that has less than 100% saturation within that group, it is bigoted to assume it when you see an individual of that group." I would suggest that it's not. Applying it blindly, without considering other, more important factors, might indicate bigotry, but otherwise it's just simple statistics. Or pattern recognition.

    If that group is a persecuted minority, historically, in the present, or both, as most racial minorities in America are, I would say that yes, such "statistics" are very harmful

    Also, let's not call it "statistics" unless the person who's making the assumption is really using actual numbers.

    Crossing the street when you see a black guy is not OK, based on his appearance, unless he say has a weapon, or is actively engaging in an illegal activity, or some other extenuating circumstance that you would avoid anyone in such a circumstance.

    The statistics are that blacks are disproportionately poor, but not overwhelmingly, with a growing middle class. The statistics are that more violent criminals are white than black. The statistics are that criminals tend to be poor, but not necessarily.

    When you see a black guy in baggy clothes, you're making a string of assumptions to get to the conclusion of fear.

    The reason these guesstimations are not OK is because they hurt the people they're aimed at

    It can really just be as simple as "how would you feel if every day of your life, people crossed the street because they looked at you, and assumed you were a criminal?"

    It would hurt, it would make you mad, justifiably so, and it would make you feel alienated and unaccepted by your society.

    Obviously those prejudices have much more far-reaching effects than the personal impact, but that alone should be enough.

  • KovakKovak did a lot of drugs married cher?Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    guys guys

    i see so many white people

  • edited February 2009
    whites are still considered "normal"

    By whom?

    By advertisers, hollywood, media generally, which is what we were talking about?

This discussion has been closed.