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Earth Hour, Climate change and your vote

DmanDman Registered User regular
edited March 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
For once voting green won't be throwing your vote away. On March 28th I'll be turning off my lights, unplugging my powerbars, and hoping the stuff in my freezer doesn't melt to cast my vote for earth.

I registered here:
http://www.voteearth2009.org/home/

But I'd like this to be an event that gets noticed by the people managing the power grid, not just a bunch of e-mail address and names on a petition.

So D&D,
Do you believe climate change is occurring and is caused by human activity?
If so, what do you think we should be doing about it? If one billion people do participate in earth hour what does it mean? Will politicians take notice? Will we write up another Kyoto accord only to have it fail again?

What should we be doing about climate change, not just personally but politically? Is having an Earth Hour every year and trying to get more and more people to participate a good way to go about this?

Dman on
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Posts

  • NimoyNimoy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Awareness for global concerns is great and all, but this whole "Vote Earth by turning off your lights" and "If you leave your lights on you support Global Warming" crap is just way too childish for my liking.

    The message is one I can get behind, its the self righteous belief that turning you lamp off for an hour means you made a difference is what kills it for me.

  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    This is reaaally dumb "action."

    Awareness of global warming doesn't need raising. Everyone's aware of it. Whether they believe it or not is another thing.

    This will get the attention of the people managing the power grid by giving the technicians a slow hour and then an enormous headache as a huge chunk of the grid flickers back on simultaneously.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2009
    I'm going to unplug all my appliances for an hour to show how much I love the Earth.

    Then I'm going to show my opposition to oil usage by not driving my car for an hour, and show my support for humane treatment of animals by swapping out a salad in place of a chicken sandwich for lunch today.

    I am so totally making a difference. I am so awesome.

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  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Isn't this whole thing useless since powerplants don't actually gear down anyway?

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  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Where's that badass Obama quote about changing lightbulbs? Seems pretty applicable.

  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I did change my light bulbs, i believe the Obama quote your referring to is:

    'Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I f---ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective'

    So if awareness is prevalent but many people don't seem to give a shit and you don't think earth hour will make any difference what do you suggest?

    I think earth hour is a good idea and maybe collective action, however small, will give people hope.

  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited March 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I'm going to unplug all my appliances for an hour to show how much I love the Earth.

    Annual Earth hour? Shit, man, I turn off nearly everything in my apartment for eight hours each day.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Wait, what is this supposed to accomplish?

    That's a genuine question, I'm not seeing what the purpose of this is.

  • TachTach Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hope for what? That the earth won't continue to get warmer? Global warming will continue, unless we not only immediately cease all contributions of greenhouse gasses, but work out a way to revers what we've already done to the atmosphere.

    Ain't happening.

    Besides, everyone should realize that in the long run, the planet will be fine. Plants and animals will adapt, and bounce back. It's just the people that are fucked.

    BNsig.jpg
  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited March 2009
    japan wrote: »
    Wait, what is this supposed to accomplish?

    That's a genuine question, I'm not seeing what the purpose of this is.

    Yes. It's like separating your organic trash from the non-organic.

    Whatever you save in energy by separating that gets gobbled up by transport and management costs for treating it differently. It's not worth it unless you're a restaurant.

  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    i will not be doing this since i don't feel like sitting in the woods in the cold and dark for an hour.

    and because i love spiting al gore.... and because AGW doesn't exist.

  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    japan wrote: »
    Wait, what is this supposed to accomplish?

    That's a genuine question, I'm not seeing what the purpose of this is.

    My understanding is that they are going to present a ton of data showing more conclusively that global warming is in fact occurring and along with that they want to show that a ton of people care (turned off their shit for 1 hr) and want action taken by governments worldwide.

    Ultimately I'm guessing its suppose to accomplish something like another kyoto accord where governments promise to do something.....only hopefully a little more effective.

  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    Wait, what is this supposed to accomplish?

    That's a genuine question, I'm not seeing what the purpose of this is.

    Yes. It's like separating your organic trash from the non-organic.

    Whatever you save in energy by separating that gets gobbled up by transport and management costs for treating it differently. It's not worth it unless you're a restaurant.

    This is what I think about when I hear my local radio ads about buying local produce.

    I don't know, well, any of the numbers, but I always wonder about the cost of loss of efficiency by buying local. I'll pay more money, to support an operation that might make inefficient use of land, and that money could instead be used to pay for the transportation costs of the non-local food, and them some.

    rodq.jpg
  • NimoyNimoy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    At the risk of being redundant, its like I said I'm all for awareness but that site rubs me the wrong way. Its that whole 'if you're not with us you're against us' mentality coupled with the attitude that one hour is going to bring about significant change.

    I'd be more for a campaign educating people on more efficient bulbs and what not than turning shit off for an hour and then going right back into the usual routine. If anything do some PSA's about turning lights off when you leave a room or something.

    Change people's long term habits, don't create some one time holiday and expect it to have some impact.

  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    i will not be doing this since i don't feel like sitting in the woods in the cold and dark for an hour.

    and because i love spiting al gore.... and because AGW doesn't exist.

    Remind me never to go camping with you...

  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dman wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    i will not be doing this since i don't feel like sitting in the woods in the cold and dark for an hour.

    and because i love spiting al gore.... and because AGW doesn't exist.

    Remind me never to go camping with you...

    well, if we are camping it better be during the summer.

    and ill bring booze.

  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Nimoy wrote: »
    At the risk of being redundant, its like I said I'm all for awareness but that site rubs me the wrong way. Its that whole 'if you're not with us you're against us' mentality coupled with the attitude that one hour is going to bring about significant change.

    I'd be more for a campaign educating people on more efficient bulbs and what not than turning shit off for an hour and then going right back into the usual routine. If anything do some PSA's about turning lights off when you leave a room or something.

    Change people's long term habits, don't create some one time holiday and expect it to have some impact.

    I agree that in terms of getting people to personally change their long term energy wasting habits this is not a very good way to go about it. Do you think if we get everyone to personally change their habits that will be good enough and change will come about quickly enough or do you think political action is needed also, and if the latter what do you suggest instead of Earth Hour?

  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    Dman wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    i will not be doing this since i don't feel like sitting in the woods in the cold and dark for an hour.

    and because i love spiting al gore.... and because AGW doesn't exist.

    Remind me never to go camping with you...

    well, if we are camping it better be during the summer.

    and ill bring booze.

    This is brilliant. Everyone turn off all your stuff and drink for an hour. There is no excuse now.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dman wrote: »
    Do you think if we get everyone to personally change their habits that will be good enough and change will come about quickly enough or do you think political action is needed also, and if the latter what do you suggest instead of Earth Hour?

    Individual people changing their habits is pretty much redundant, individuals can't significantly reduce their environmental impact significantly beyond a few negligible changes. For individual efforts to really make a difference it would require people to make serious sacrifices regarding their quality of life, and only a trivial number of people are really willing to do that.

    Most of the changes required are infrastructural, because that is where the significant gains are to be made, and in practice, a lot of those trends are already in motion. The big two are power generation and air travel, which are already the focus of a lot of political will. What changes do you want to happen?

  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited March 2009
    I just remembered writing something cynical about this last year, so I looked it up.

    Last year, Sydney celebrated the end of their Earth Hour by a massive goddamn fireworks display.

  • GanluanGanluan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    All of the people who haven't heard of this will be voting for global warming inadvertently!

    Bastards

  • SaammielSaammiel Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Environmental Theater is the new Security Theater amirite?

    This whole thing just reminds me of the 'sleepouts' that the stupid middle class college kids at my campus would do to show their support for the plight of the homeless. It was a farce and this is a farce.

  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    because AGW doesn't exist.

    Oh man, when I get home, it is on.

  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited March 2009
    Want to do something for nature? Go outside, take a walk, pick up garbage for an hour. Of course, that involves some actual work instead of turning off most of your lights and patting yourself on the back, so I guess that’ll never get popular.

  • DeathPrawnDeathPrawn Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Septus wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    Wait, what is this supposed to accomplish?

    That's a genuine question, I'm not seeing what the purpose of this is.

    Yes. It's like separating your organic trash from the non-organic.

    Whatever you save in energy by separating that gets gobbled up by transport and management costs for treating it differently. It's not worth it unless you're a restaurant.

    This is what I think about when I hear my local radio ads about buying local produce.

    I don't know, well, any of the numbers, but I always wonder about the cost of loss of efficiency by buying local. I'll pay more money, to support an operation that might make inefficient use of land, and that money could instead be used to pay for the transportation costs of the non-local food, and them some.

    This is slightly OT, but the benefits of buying 'locally' are just as much (if not more) about supporting small independently-owned and organic (to varying definitions of the word 'organic') farms than it is about transportation costs. Although small farms are less efficient than commercial operations in that they have a smaller yield per acre, a properly-run independent farm consumes far less petroleum-based products and does a much better job of renewing the soil and maintaining a healthy ecosystem. Rather than destroying the environment through irresponsible farming practices, they keep it healthy. Because these farms are so small, it isn't feasible for them to distribute nationally, hence the urging to purchase from them locally.

    Signature not found.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Super Moderator, Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2009
    japan wrote: »
    Wait, what is this supposed to accomplish?

    That's a genuine question, I'm not seeing what the purpose of this is.

    You know how every time we have a National Don't Buy Gas day, we really teach those oil barons a lesson by shuffling our driving habits around and making them get their profit on slightly different days?

    Yeah, it's sort of like that.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    Want to do something for nature? Go outside, take a walk, pick up garbage for an hour. Of course, that involves some actual work instead of turning off most of your lights and patting yourself on the back, so I guess that’ll never get popular.

    This is true, but just because something is "work" doesn't automatically make it better than doing something easy and patting yourself on the back, like changing to efficient light bulbs/appliances, turning down your heat, turning down the temperature on the hot water boiler, hanging your clothes to dry instead of using the dryer.....
    Spoiler:

  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    I just remembered writing something cynical about this last year, so I looked it up.

    Last year, Sydney celebrated the end of their Earth Hour by a massive goddamn fireworks display.

    Well, see, I just ran on the treadmill for ten minutes, so that's why I deserve this 600 calorie ice cream sundae...

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  • wunderbarwunderbar Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I will be taking part. I'm not going to fucking un plug my fridge/freezer, or shit like that, but I'll turn the lights off, except for one, turn my computers off, and read for an hour. If I follow the trend of last year, I'll end up reading for about 4 hours and not even notice.

    But I also make sure that it's not the only thing I do for the year. I do try to conserve electricity, I do recycle, and I do pick up garbage, etc.

    If someone makes this the only thing they do all year, fuck them, becuase it's easy to turn the lights off for an hour and say that you contribute to making the world better. It's different to actually get up and do something for more than 1 hour of the year.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Relevant to the thread, I was reading today about the possibility of developing re-processable nuclear fuel which cannot be made in nuclear weapons, but now I can't find the article.

    That would be good because we could finally do nuclear properly without all this arsing around with burying waste.

    EDIT: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/03/05/de-clawed-nuclear-fuel-would-provide-only-electricity-not-bombs/

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    THERMAL DEPOLY... Breeder Reactors! Can you dig it!?

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  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So, this is something people can do so they can say "I'm making a difference" without actually changing their lifestyle? Awesome, we don't have enough of those.

    I've been able to see my breath in my bedroom all winter. Fuck this "Earth Hour" bullshit.

    ragesig.jpg

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    So, this is something people can do so they can say "I'm making a difference" without actually changing their lifestyle? Awesome, we don't have enough of those.

    I've been able to see my breath in my bedroom all winter. Fuck this "Earth Hour" bullshit.
    yeah, people at work complain about how cold it is when they turn their heat down to 68, and I'm like, "I'd kill for 68!" My thermostats at 57 usually and I wear double layers all tucked into everything and a thick robe. And still my feet and hands get numb.

    Also my wife and I started showering together to save water.
    We've been pretty good about behaving ourselves so it actually works.
    :(

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  • wunderbarwunderbar Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    we keep our thermostat really low overnight when we're sleeping and during the day when no one is home, only kick it up to room temperature when we are home.

    Getting out of the warm bed in the morning is really hard.

  • ProtoProto Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    So, this is something people can do so they can say "I'm making a difference" without actually changing their lifestyle? Awesome, we don't have enough of those.

    I've been able to see my breath in my bedroom all winter. Fuck this "Earth Hour" bullshit.

    Like most things like this, it's more about raising awareness. You guys can drop the "this ain't gonna do shit for the environment!" cry any time now.

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  • SaammielSaammiel Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Proto wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    So, this is something people can do so they can say "I'm making a difference" without actually changing their lifestyle? Awesome, we don't have enough of those.

    I've been able to see my breath in my bedroom all winter. Fuck this "Earth Hour" bullshit.

    Like most things like this, it's more about raising awareness. You guys can drop the "this ain't gonna do shit for the environment!" cry any time now.

    Yeah, because no one has heard about conservation before this. Wait a minute, turning off lights saves electricity?!?! Hold the presses!

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Proto wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    So, this is something people can do so they can say "I'm making a difference" without actually changing their lifestyle? Awesome, we don't have enough of those.

    I've been able to see my breath in my bedroom all winter. Fuck this "Earth Hour" bullshit.

    Like most things like this, it's more about raising awareness. You guys can drop the "this ain't gonna do shit for the environment!" cry any time now.

    I think you're as likely to find a person who lives in the developed world who is honestly not aware of climate change and it's causes as you are to find someone who is unaware that smoking is linked to an increased risk of cancer.

    I'm really not certain how much more aware people can be of this issue.

  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Proto wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    So, this is something people can do so they can say "I'm making a difference" without actually changing their lifestyle? Awesome, we don't have enough of those.

    I've been able to see my breath in my bedroom all winter. Fuck this "Earth Hour" bullshit.

    Like most things like this, it's more about raising awareness. You guys can drop the "this ain't gonna do shit for the environment!" cry any time now.

    Raising awareness of what? That climate change is real? That greenhouse gasses contribute to global warming? That people shouldn't waste a finite resource?

    If you realize these things (all of which have been obvious for decades) then you should be changing things anyway, without regard to little "actions" like this. If these concepts are new to you then you are an idiot, and this is unlikely this is going to change your views since the average citizen has been swamped by (equally foolish) "go green" messages for the past couple years.

    This is just another feel-good news byte that gets a minute blurb on the evening news. Everyone gets to pat themselves on the back for being so responsible, while overall consumption of energy remains unchanged.

    So no, I don't think I'll change my cry. One hour a year, one hour a year will not help the environment. Turning off the lights, unplugging freezers and so on are not solutions. People need these things. The only way things are going to change on the level of the everyday person (not counting industry, agriculture and government) is to significantly cut back on energy use for long periods of time.

    That people think they're changing anything by doing this disgusts me.

    PS: Proto, when I say "you" in this post, I'm referring to a hypothetical you, not you as a poster. As you can see I'm pretty frustrated about these issues, but my anger is not directed to you.

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  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Proto wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    So, this is something people can do so they can say "I'm making a difference" without actually changing their lifestyle? Awesome, we don't have enough of those.

    I've been able to see my breath in my bedroom all winter. Fuck this "Earth Hour" bullshit.

    Like most things like this, it's more about raising awareness. You guys can drop the "this ain't gonna do shit for the environment!" cry any time now.

    Raising awareness of what? That climate change is real? That greenhouse gasses contribute to global warming? That people shouldn't waste a finite resource?

    If you realize these things (all of which have been obvious for decades) then you should be changing things anyway, without regard to little "actions" like this. If these concepts are new to you then you are an idiot, and this is unlikely this is going to change your views since the average citizen has been swamped by (equally foolish) "go green" messages for the past couple years.

    This is just another feel-good news byte that gets a minute blurb on the evening news. Everyone gets to pat themselves on the back for being so responsible, while overall consumption of energy remains unchanged.

    So no, I don't think I'll change my cry. One hour a year, one hour a year will not help the environment. Turning off the lights, unplugging freezers and so on are not solutions. People need these things. The only way things are going to change on the level of the everyday person (not counting industry, agriculture and government) is to significantly cut back on energy use for long periods of time.

    That people think they're changing anything by doing this disgusts me.

    PS: Proto, when I say "you" in this post, I'm referring to a hypothetical you, not you as a poster. As you can see I'm pretty frustrated about these issues, but my anger is not directed to you.

    I've said this a few times already now, I realize this is nothing great when it comes to getting people to make long term personal changes, the idea is to get such a large number of people to participate that it sends a message to industry, agriculture and government that a large number of people are willing to actually DO something, suggesting they might care enough to put their consumer dollar or election vote where their mouth is.

    This is how I see it:
    It be great if everyone suddenly started using mass transit instead of their car, but how do we get them to?

    Your saying the solution is if everyone just starts taking mass transit that will be the incentive to make mass transit better.

    I'm saying maybe if everyone rode mass transit for a day and also petitioned the government (and the event coincided with a bunch of engineers and scientists presenting the merits of mass transit over cars to world leaders) the governments would spend money on mass transit making it more appealing, simultaneously increasing the gas tax to pay for it, making driving cars less appealing, and suddenly everyone will use the mass transit.

    I agree everyone doing something small and patting themselves on the back is shitty compared to if everyone just rode the damn bus/subway/trains we already have, but clearly your solution of saying "everyone already knows this" isn't working.

  • AegisAegis Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    For this to work you'd have to get millions of people doing this honestly to make a dent. Ground-up democratic action like this is nice, but I'd equate the effects of such attempts to the effects that online petitions have (nothing).

    Especially considering this would be rather inconvenient to people. I'd rather be surfing the web personally than sitting with my lights out for an hour. Other people may like doing laundry in the evening or catching up on work that they might have missed. You're going to have to get past this inconvenience to people before it has any noticeable impact on anyone. Industry isn't going to change because for one hour they had a drop in output.

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