Sagat gets high damage output, long reaching powerful normals, high and low fireballs, a million anti-air options, and an easy way to combo into his ultra...
And his only real flaw is that I believe his walk speed is lower than everyone elses.
Whoopedy doo. Capcom is pretty retarded, guys. Even on paper the concept of Sagat is fucking retarded.
I'd rather have Adon in the game than Sagat. But going on Sagat's intro, maybe I'm a minority in this and Adon isn't very well liked in general.
That Jumping bean Ryu strat actually works pretty well vs my characters (Abel, El F) I find both anti air grabs have issues with minor lag. One of the guys I played that was using it had 2800 bp, he was doing the Medium jump kick>medium sweep> fireball landing mostly if he caught me, he did catch me with a srk cancel super as well. I need to get out of work and keep up my quest to become more skilled in the luchador ways.
So, good ken/ryu players can you answer this for me.
If I play a ryu and he just jumps. constantly, just jumping forwards and backwards... I guess trying to catch me in a cross up? And just does his kick -> sweep jump combo... Is that par for the course? Is that how good players play? Cause... once I get in the rythm it's not to bad to mess up.
short answer: no they suck.
Does this actually work against you? I love it when they do that because I just cannon spike them any time they fling themselves into the air like a retard. If you're using ryu or ken you could just dragon punch them or crouching HP.
We don't all have godly AA like that!
I was actually wondering what to do against them with Zangief. His clothesline won't do it, and jump straight up HK only sometimes works. I've taken to low block the sweep and jam out some LPs, but that's suboptimal. Once in a while, I can sneak in a SPD between kicks, but it requires an excellent connection and I can't do it 100%.
I usually beat these fuckers anyway, but what can I do to keep them from jumping in all the goddamn time? I want to put the fear of [strike]OT God[/strike]The Red Cyclone in them whenever they think about jumping.
So, good ken/ryu players can you answer this for me.
If I play a ryu and he just jumps. constantly, just jumping forwards and backwards... I guess trying to catch me in a cross up? And just does his kick -> sweep jump combo... Is that par for the course? Is that how good players play? Cause... once I get in the rythm it's not to bad to mess up.
short answer: no they suck.
Does this actually work against you? I love it when they do that because I just cannon spike them any time they fling themselves into the air like a retard. If you're using ryu or ken you could just dragon punch them or crouching HP.
We don't all have godly AA like that!
Jump straight up + attack. Neutral jump attacks tend to beat jump in attacks. E honda has a fairly nasty neutral jumping fierce IIRC.
I personally love to do air throws against people who telegraph their jumpins like crazy.
So, good ken/ryu players can you answer this for me.
If I play a ryu and he just jumps. constantly, just jumping forwards and backwards... I guess trying to catch me in a cross up? And just does his kick -> sweep jump combo... Is that par for the course? Is that how good players play? Cause... once I get in the rythm it's not to bad to mess up.
short answer: no they suck.
Does this actually work against you? I love it when they do that because I just cannon spike them any time they fling themselves into the air like a retard. If you're using ryu or ken you could just dragon punch them or crouching HP.
We don't all have godly AA like that!
I was actually wondering what to do against them with Zangief. His clothesline won't do it, and jump straight up HK only sometimes works. I've taken to low block the sweep and jam out some LPs, but that's suboptimal. Once in a while, I can sneak in a SPD between kicks, but it requires an excellent connection and I can't do it 100%.
I usually beat these fuckers anyway, but what can I do to keep them from jumping in all the goddamn time? I want to put the fear of [strike]OT God[/strike]The Red Cyclone in them whenever they think about jumping.
I was actually wondering what to do against them with Zangief. His clothesline won't do it, and jump straight up HK only sometimes works. I've taken to low block the sweep and jam out some LPs, but that's suboptimal. Once in a while, I can sneak in a SPD between kicks, but it requires an excellent connection and I can't do it 100%.
I usually beat these fuckers anyway, but what can I do to keep them from jumping in all the goddamn time? I want to put the fear of [strike]OT God[/strike]The Red Cyclone in them whenever they think about jumping.
oh for the 'Gief?
kkk or ppp 8-)
Yeah, this will work 90% of the time. Although a well placed jumping RH with Ryu stuffs PPP (it hits Z in the head).
If you play a Ryu who can hit Z's sweet spot, you can FA the jumping attack.
If you decide to block, and the jumping attack isn't deep, SPD Ryu.
If you can react fast enough, you can PPP and back up/move forward to mess up their jumping arc.
I was actually wondering what to do against them with Zangief. His clothesline won't do it, and jump straight up HK only sometimes works. I've taken to low block the sweep and jam out some LPs, but that's suboptimal. Once in a while, I can sneak in a SPD between kicks, but it requires an excellent connection and I can't do it 100%.
I usually beat these fuckers anyway, but what can I do to keep them from jumping in all the goddamn time? I want to put the fear of [strike]OT God[/strike]The Red Cyclone in them whenever they think about jumping.
oh for the 'Gief?
kkk or ppp 8-)
Do you have to hit them with the windup? 'Cause doing it even slightly early only gets me hit on top of the head. Hitting with startup is better in that it tends to trade, rather than just lose, but that's still not great. Is there some trick to using it as an effective AA?
@Banshee:
I've tried to FA the jump-in, but his counterattack is slow enough that it usually gets hit by the sweep. Is there some timing that allows me to charge up long enough to absorb the first hit while starting early enough to interrupt the second?
I was actually wondering what to do against them with Zangief. His clothesline won't do it, and jump straight up HK only sometimes works. I've taken to low block the sweep and jam out some LPs, but that's suboptimal. Once in a while, I can sneak in a SPD between kicks, but it requires an excellent connection and I can't do it 100%.
I usually beat these fuckers anyway, but what can I do to keep them from jumping in all the goddamn time? I want to put the fear of [strike]OT God[/strike]The Red Cyclone in them whenever they think about jumping.
oh for the 'Gief?
kkk or ppp 8-)
Do you have to hit them with the windup? 'Cause doing it even slightly early only gets me hit on top of the head. Hitting with startup is better in that it tends to trade, rather than just lose, but that's still not great. Is there some trick to using it as an effective AA?
@Banshee:
I've tried to FA the jump-in, but his counterattack is slow enough that it usually gets hit by the sweep. Is there some timing that allows me to charge up long enough to absorb the first hit while starting early enough to interrupt the second?
For the FA part, this really depends on the timing of the jump in and what they decide to follow it with... not so much the timing of the FA on your part (just as long as it's before he does his attack obviously :P). Really late jump ins give you a much smaller window to let go of the buttons and attack, and if he follows up with a jab/short, there's a good chance he'll still beat out the animation of the FA too.
For crossups, the idea behind FA'ing the cross up is that you can dash forward and be out of range for his followup.
(EDIT) re zangief's lariats: You want to hit them with the start/mid of it. Your mid section pretty much disappears at the start/mid of the lariat making it impossible to him zangief with mid attacks. The head/Feet remain vulnerable (IIRC). Fun note: Chun li's cr.roundhouse whiffs against zangief lariat until the end frames.
The 3K button (IIRC) removes his feet hitbox but leaves his head/mid vulnerable. I always found it fairly pointless outside of building meter after knockdown... maybe has some uses against Cammy too I dunno.
The head (again, IIRC!) always remains vulnerable. So attacks aimed at his head will hit. Best bet is move back (maybe even backdash) -> lariat to catch jumpers.
I was actually wondering what to do against them with Zangief. His clothesline won't do it, and jump straight up HK only sometimes works. I've taken to low block the sweep and jam out some LPs, but that's suboptimal. Once in a while, I can sneak in a SPD between kicks, but it requires an excellent connection and I can't do it 100%.
I usually beat these fuckers anyway, but what can I do to keep them from jumping in all the goddamn time? I want to put the fear of [strike]OT God[/strike]The Red Cyclone in them whenever they think about jumping.
oh for the 'Gief?
kkk or ppp 8-)
Do you have to hit them with the windup? 'Cause doing it even slightly early only gets me hit on top of the head. Hitting with startup is better in that it tends to trade, rather than just lose, but that's still not great. Is there some trick to using it as an effective AA?
@Banshee:
I've tried to FA the jump-in, but his counterattack is slow enough that it usually gets hit by the sweep. Is there some timing that allows me to charge up long enough to absorb the first hit while starting early enough to interrupt the second?
You can do PPP as a reversal, it has priority over a lot of stuff. So do the lariat as late as you can.
If someone is crossing you up or is at the apex of their jump, and you lariat early, they may be high enough so that the lariat whiffs and then you'll get kicked in the head. Again, if you expect a crossup do it as late as possible.
Also, if you get hit high enough because you PPPed too early, the rest of your opponent's combo may not connect. That's a free SPD right there.
As for the FA, it needs to be released as soon as you take the jumping hit. If your opponent's attacks are too fast, backdash, then evaluate if you're close enough to hit or SPD.
I noticed something from playing online. I used to use Ken/Ryu for ages (since SF2, and everygame between, including SFEX and all the Vs. games), but this is the first time I've actually played against a wide breadth of players.
My BP was not that great with Ken/Ryu, and when i switched to Sagat, I started to do better. Anyone else notice that switching from a shoto to a non-shoto player?
but... you switched from a shoto... to a muy tha-- shoto.
What's a shoto . . .?
Ken/Ryu/Sakura/Akuma are Shoto fighters. Based on their fighting style.
I don't really consider Sakura a "shoto". She plays significantly differently than Ken/Ryu/Akuma, who were all three originally basically headswapped sprites with almost exactly the same normals.
If you lump her in under the "Shoto" brand, then you almost have to do the same for Dan, which would be just plain wacky.
I noticed something from playing online. I used to use Ken/Ryu for ages (since SF2, and everygame between, including SFEX and all the Vs. games), but this is the first time I've actually played against a wide breadth of players.
My BP was not that great with Ken/Ryu, and when i switched to Sagat, I started to do better. Anyone else notice that switching from a shoto to a non-shoto player?
but... you switched from a shoto... to a muy tha-- shoto.
What's a shoto . . .?
Ken/Ryu/Sakura/Akuma are Shoto fighters. Based on their fighting style.
I don't really consider Sakura a "shoto". She plays significantly differently than Ken/Ryu/Akuma, who were all three originally basically headswapped sprites with almost exactly the same normals.
If you lump her in under the "Shoto" brand, then you almost have to do the same for Dan, which would be just plain wacky.
personally, i call everyone who fireballs and SRKs a shoto
i'm not saying it's right; but, i'm like...
ryu, ken, akuma, dan, sakura, and sometimes sagat, and also sometimes gouken
I noticed something from playing online. I used to use Ken/Ryu for ages (since SF2, and everygame between, including SFEX and all the Vs. games), but this is the first time I've actually played against a wide breadth of players.
My BP was not that great with Ken/Ryu, and when i switched to Sagat, I started to do better. Anyone else notice that switching from a shoto to a non-shoto player?
but... you switched from a shoto... to a muy tha-- shoto.
What's a shoto . . .?
Ken/Ryu/Sakura/Akuma are Shoto fighters. Based on their fighting style.
I don't really consider Sakura a "shoto". She plays significantly differently than Ken/Ryu/Akuma, who were all three originally basically headswapped sprites with almost exactly the same normals.
If you lump her in under the "Shoto" brand, then you almost have to do the same for Dan, which would be just plain wacky.
personally, i call everyone who fireballs and SRKs a shoto
i'm not saying it's right; but, i'm like...
ryu, ken, akuma, dan, sakura, gouken, and sometimes sagat
I definitely wouldn't include Gouken in that, his only SRK is his super and ultra and his hurricane kick is completely different. Hell, almost all his moves are completely different.
I wish the Avoidance/negative replys were game specific. I know I have avoids from Halo and the percentages stay about the same for me but it would be nice to know when people are getting frustrated and avoiding me because of it for each game.
Abel is C class on the tier list? Hmmm, I dont seem to be having this tier problem at all ranked or against anyone. I think its safe to say that the Tiers are only applicable for high level tournement play and is bullshit for the rest of the crew.
We need a new thread, i get lost just looking at the amount of pages ive missed since the last time i logged in. lol
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Abel is C class on the tier list? Hmmm, I dont seem to be having this tier problem at all ranked or against anyone. I think its safe to say that the Tiers are only applicable for high level tournement play and is bullshit for the rest of the crew.
We need a new thread, i get lost just looking at the amount of pages ive missed since the last time i logged in. lol
Notice that the tiers are also rather tight, the thing with Abel is he doesn't have any omg free win matchups, mostly 6-4 or 4-6 or 5-5 match ups for our french friend. El F and Vega don't even have a ton of super bad match ups. I am curious to see a tier listing with console characters, something tells me fei fans are gonna be upset at his placement.
Abel is C class on the tier list? Hmmm, I dont seem to be having this tier problem at all ranked or against anyone. I think its safe to say that the Tiers are only applicable for high level tournement play and is bullshit for the rest of the crew.
We need a new thread, i get lost just looking at the amount of pages ive missed since the last time i logged in. lol
Notice that the tiers are also rather tight, the thing with Abel is he doesn't have any omg free win matchups, mostly 6-4 or 4-6 or 5-5 match ups for our french friend. El F and Vega don't even have a ton of super bad match ups. I am curious to see a tier listing with console characters, something tells me fei fans are gonna be upset at his placement.
I don't think any one of them will be near the top. Either they intended it to be that way or they simply had a better grasp of the new system when they made them.
Abel is C class on the tier list? Hmmm, I dont seem to be having this tier problem at all ranked or against anyone. I think its safe to say that the Tiers are only applicable for high level tournement play and is bullshit for the rest of the crew.
We need a new thread, i get lost just looking at the amount of pages ive missed since the last time i logged in. lol
Notice that the tiers are also rather tight, the thing with Abel is he doesn't have any omg free win matchups, mostly 6-4 or 4-6 or 5-5 match ups for our french friend. El F and Vega don't even have a ton of super bad match ups. I am curious to see a tier listing with console characters, something tells me fei fans are gonna be upset at his placement.
I don't think any one of them will be near the top. Either they intended it to be that way or they simply had a better grasp of the new system when they made them.
If I had to call it now from what I have seen of the console only guys ranking them on there own not vs the rest of the cast the ranks would prob go: Rose, Sakura, Cammy, Gouken, Dan, Gen(based on difficulty), Seth, Fei Long.
I would call Seth and Fei about even they are likely both better then el f and claw at least initially tho. Fei seems so easily punished and has pretty weak specials from what I have seen, could just be Abel is a good match up vs Fei but my friend has major issues with half the cast playing Fei.
i've been playin' a bit of sagat lately. and, i don't know that i like the fact.
but... his zoning is off the charts, that's what i love about him (the fact that his priority rocks helps here, too).
is there anyone else that can lock down like Tiger Knee... the regular shotos get the fireball/SRK that locks down a lot; but, fuck that Knee has got some wicked range. Does anyone have a move comparable to Tiger Knee... i mean it's a fuckin' AA that covers half the screen...
i've been playin' a bit of sagat lately. and, i don't know that i like the fact.
but... his zoning is off the charts, that's what i love about him (the fact that his priority rocks helps here, too).
is there anyone else that can lock down like Tiger Knee... the regular shotos get the fireball/SRK that locks down a lot; but, fuck that Knee has got some wicked range. Does anyone have a move comparable to Tiger Knee... i mean it's a fuckin' AA that covers half the screen...
Most charge characters?
edit: speaking of charge characters, how do you deal with a balrog that keeps doing down+back? I can't deal with that at all.
i've been playin' a bit of sagat lately. and, i don't know that i like the fact.
but... his zoning is off the charts, that's what i love about him (the fact that his priority rocks helps here, too).
is there anyone else that can lock down like Tiger Knee... the regular shotos get the fireball/SRK that locks down a lot; but, fuck that Knee has got some wicked range. Does anyone have a move comparable to Tiger Knee... i mean it's a fuckin' AA that covers half the screen...
Most charge characters?
edit: speaking of charge characters, how do you deal with a balrog that keeps doing down+back?
Turtling like a motherfucker.
it's hard if you don't have a good fast pressure character, but you have to keep on him in a way that either baits his counters or doesn't let him counter. Use overheads; bait his anti-airs; throw him. A lot.
i've been playin' a bit of sagat lately. and, i don't know that i like the fact.
but... his zoning is off the charts, that's what i love about him (the fact that his priority rocks helps here, too).
is there anyone else that can lock down like Tiger Knee... the regular shotos get the fireball/SRK that locks down a lot; but, fuck that Knee has got some wicked range. Does anyone have a move comparable to Tiger Knee... i mean it's a fuckin' AA that covers half the screen...
Most charge characters?
man... i don't like playin' charge characters
i had pretty much ruled them out (in my head) by default
i'm surprised at the lack of people's abilities to read my mind today.
maybe if there was a charge character with a fireball that wasn't a charge move (i.e. not a charge character)
Posts
I'd rather have Adon in the game than Sagat. But going on Sagat's intro, maybe I'm a minority in this and Adon isn't very well liked in general.
I was actually wondering what to do against them with Zangief. His clothesline won't do it, and jump straight up HK only sometimes works. I've taken to low block the sweep and jam out some LPs, but that's suboptimal. Once in a while, I can sneak in a SPD between kicks, but it requires an excellent connection and I can't do it 100%.
I usually beat these fuckers anyway, but what can I do to keep them from jumping in all the goddamn time? I want to put the fear of [strike]OT God[/strike]The Red Cyclone in them whenever they think about jumping.
Jump straight up + attack. Neutral jump attacks tend to beat jump in attacks. E honda has a fairly nasty neutral jumping fierce IIRC.
I personally love to do air throws against people who telegraph their jumpins like crazy.
oh for the 'Gief?
kkk or ppp 8-)
Yeah, this will work 90% of the time. Although a well placed jumping RH with Ryu stuffs PPP (it hits Z in the head).
If you play a Ryu who can hit Z's sweet spot, you can FA the jumping attack.
If you decide to block, and the jumping attack isn't deep, SPD Ryu.
If you can react fast enough, you can PPP and back up/move forward to mess up their jumping arc.
Do you have to hit them with the windup? 'Cause doing it even slightly early only gets me hit on top of the head. Hitting with startup is better in that it tends to trade, rather than just lose, but that's still not great. Is there some trick to using it as an effective AA?
@Banshee:
I've tried to FA the jump-in, but his counterattack is slow enough that it usually gets hit by the sweep. Is there some timing that allows me to charge up long enough to absorb the first hit while starting early enough to interrupt the second?
Last I checked, Bison! No one else matters!
Edit: Official answer: http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/
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XBox ID - therealmasume
PS4 ID - realmasume
For the FA part, this really depends on the timing of the jump in and what they decide to follow it with... not so much the timing of the FA on your part (just as long as it's before he does his attack obviously :P). Really late jump ins give you a much smaller window to let go of the buttons and attack, and if he follows up with a jab/short, there's a good chance he'll still beat out the animation of the FA too.
For crossups, the idea behind FA'ing the cross up is that you can dash forward and be out of range for his followup.
(EDIT) re zangief's lariats: You want to hit them with the start/mid of it. Your mid section pretty much disappears at the start/mid of the lariat making it impossible to him zangief with mid attacks. The head/Feet remain vulnerable (IIRC). Fun note: Chun li's cr.roundhouse whiffs against zangief lariat until the end frames.
The 3K button (IIRC) removes his feet hitbox but leaves his head/mid vulnerable. I always found it fairly pointless outside of building meter after knockdown... maybe has some uses against Cammy too I dunno.
The head (again, IIRC!) always remains vulnerable. So attacks aimed at his head will hit. Best bet is move back (maybe even backdash) -> lariat to catch jumpers.
You can do PPP as a reversal, it has priority over a lot of stuff. So do the lariat as late as you can.
If someone is crossing you up or is at the apex of their jump, and you lariat early, they may be high enough so that the lariat whiffs and then you'll get kicked in the head. Again, if you expect a crossup do it as late as possible.
Also, if you get hit high enough because you PPPed too early, the rest of your opponent's combo may not connect. That's a free SPD right there.
As for the FA, it needs to be released as soon as you take the jumping hit. If your opponent's attacks are too fast, backdash, then evaluate if you're close enough to hit or SPD.
If you lump her in under the "Shoto" brand, then you almost have to do the same for Dan, which would be just plain wacky.
personally, i call everyone who fireballs and SRKs a shoto
i'm not saying it's right; but, i'm like...
ryu, ken, akuma, dan, sakura, and sometimes sagat, and also sometimes gouken
I definitely wouldn't include Gouken in that, his only SRK is his super and ultra and his hurricane kick is completely different. Hell, almost all his moves are completely different.
he taught ryu the OG shoto, so i have a hard time with that one
i'm a loose amalgamation between move-set and cannon
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Yeah, I mentioned that like 5 pages back and seemingly was ignored :P
I have no idea, but I do appreciate your sig.
PSN: PalaceBrother
0% avoidance/negative responses? I was hoping I was better at Street Fighter than that
We need a new thread, i get lost just looking at the amount of pages ive missed since the last time i logged in. lol
Gamertag(SSF4/MW2)StokedAidzzzSC2 ID Stoked.655
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Notice that the tiers are also rather tight, the thing with Abel is he doesn't have any omg free win matchups, mostly 6-4 or 4-6 or 5-5 match ups for our french friend. El F and Vega don't even have a ton of super bad match ups. I am curious to see a tier listing with console characters, something tells me fei fans are gonna be upset at his placement.
I don't think any one of them will be near the top. Either they intended it to be that way or they simply had a better grasp of the new system when they made them.
If I had to call it now from what I have seen of the console only guys ranking them on there own not vs the rest of the cast the ranks would prob go: Rose, Sakura, Cammy, Gouken, Dan, Gen(based on difficulty), Seth, Fei Long.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
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Me on Twitch!
Also, I need to stop jumping and expecting to be able to block. Too many guilty gear.
i've been playin' a bit of sagat lately. and, i don't know that i like the fact.
but... his zoning is off the charts, that's what i love about him (the fact that his priority rocks helps here, too).
is there anyone else that can lock down like Tiger Knee... the regular shotos get the fireball/SRK that locks down a lot; but, fuck that Knee has got some wicked range. Does anyone have a move comparable to Tiger Knee... i mean it's a fuckin' AA that covers half the screen...
xbl is learntofly
edit: busy now!
Most charge characters?
edit: speaking of charge characters, how do you deal with a balrog that keeps doing down+back? I can't deal with that at all.
Turtling like a motherfucker.
it's hard if you don't have a good fast pressure character, but you have to keep on him in a way that either baits his counters or doesn't let him counter. Use overheads; bait his anti-airs; throw him. A lot.
Handmade Jewelry by me on EtsyGames for sale
Me on Twitch!
man... i don't like playin' charge characters
i had pretty much ruled them out (in my head) by default
i'm surprised at the lack of people's abilities to read my mind today.
maybe if there was a charge character with a fireball that wasn't a charge move (i.e. not a charge character)