Whoa... Yeah that guys a nutcase. However he isn't a bodybuilder, he's a powerlifter, and it's also very clear from the article that the guy is not representative of his peers, but is in fact held in the same regard we view people who leave chick tracts in laundryrooms. ie: a crazy person.
Apologies, you're absolutely right. I should have said powerlifters, not bodybuilders.
running for a long time isn't the same as racing. there is no winner.
That would be great if it were true, but all the eyes of the kids sitting in the bleachers while you're still trucking that last lap alone don't say so. Even if they really don't think so, it's what you're thinking. It's embarrassing. To pretend it isn't is kinda unfair.
Kids are terrible. It's so much better when you're an adult. When my slow, old ass is lagging on the last lap of my mile and a half PRT run I don't hear anything but encouragement (and yes, people screaming at you to keep running is encouragement) and I can't count the number of times where I've seen the really fast people run multiple extra laps beyond what is required of them so as not to discourage the slower people by having them see people who are already done and off the track.
I can't stress enough that obese people should not be treated badly, but obesity needs to be treated like a real problem (because it is one) and not some sort of alternative lifestyle.
I have to agree.
the end of dodgeball, though it's a weird thing to mention I guess, I thought was great, the faux advertisement for Average Joe's Gym.
I am opposed to having competitive sports take place during gym class, I think it leads nowhere good.
are you also opposed to tests in class because they support a system of ability segregation between smart kids and dumb kids?
competetive sports are fine. life is competetive and its something kids have to learn.
Here's the thing, though. It all depends on what the point of PE class is.
Is it to teach kids how to be healthy?
Or get them to lose weight?
Cause if you want to teach them to be healthy, you have to get them to want to. I had to take a physics class in high school. Sure, it's enriching, it's necessary. But once I've finished that class I am fucking done with physics, forever. Is that so wrong if my interests lie elsewhere?
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I'm seeing a lot of "obesity is bad for you" in this thread.
Obesity is an indicator of increased probability of certain things going wrong for you. so if obesity is associated with, say (out of my ass) a 20% higher risk of heart disease, that means if the normal percentage is 20, for an obese person, it's 24.
Obesity alone isn't really a visual indicator of how lazy or active someone is - there are NFL and NHL players, MMA fighters, sumo wrestlers, powerlifters, strongmen, etc who are all obese or overweight to the naked eye despite doing more exercise in a day then most of this forum does in a week, to say nothing of busy moms or stressed business people who may not make the time to exercise but certainly aren't "lazy"
Not only that, but the difference between "really obese" and "she's a little fat so I'm going to make fun of her" isn't set right, at the moment.
People like Zimmy, who think that joking with fat people is helpful, are fucking assholes. I'm sorry, but it's true. "I'm just trying to motivate him" is such a shit rationale for making fun of someone...
Personally, I just got back from a 2 hour MMA workout most of the people on this thread couldn't finish. I do this 2-4 times a week, judo another 2-4 hours, and other weight and cardio work the rest of the week - no less then 1/2 hour a day, seven days a week. I work outside every day in a job that can be physically demanding and weather intensive. I'm 6'5" and about 360 pounds, so I'm still a person most of you would dismiss as a lazy fatty. Behind my back, of course.
I am opposed to having competitive sports take place during gym class, I think it leads nowhere good.
are you also opposed to tests in class because they support a system of ability segregation between smart kids and dumb kids?
competetive sports are fine. life is competetive and its something kids have to learn.
School competitions are voluntary for the most part, as are elective sports. Tests are not graded on a curve, and certainly not on a bell curve and are therefore noncompetitive.
Class rankings can be competitive, but that phenomena is externally driven by the colleges, and even still some schools refuse to play that game.
I am opposed to having competitive sports take place during gym class, I think it leads nowhere good.
are you also opposed to tests in class because they support a system of ability segregation between smart kids and dumb kids?
competetive sports are fine. life is competetive and its something kids have to learn.
Here's the thing, though. It all depends on what the point of PE class is.
Is it to teach kids how to be healthy?
Or get them to lose weight?
Cause if you want to teach them to be healthy, you have to get them to want to. I had to take a physics class in high school. Sure, it's enriching, it's necessary. But once I've finished that class I am fucking done with physics, forever. Is that so wrong if my interests lie elsewhere?
I'm in favor of teaching kids how to be healthy rather than making them exercise. Teach a man to fish and all that.
I am opposed to having competitive sports take place during gym class, I think it leads nowhere good.
are you also opposed to tests in class because they support a system of ability segregation between smart kids and dumb kids?
competetive sports are fine. life is competetive and its something kids have to learn.
Here's the thing, though. It all depends on what the point of PE class is.
Is it to teach kids how to be healthy?
Or get them to lose weight?
Cause if you want to teach them to be healthy, you have to get them to want to. I had to take a physics class in high school. Sure, it's enriching, it's necessary. But once I've finished that class I am fucking done with physics, forever. Is that so wrong if my interests lie elsewhere?
Learning physics won't help prevent heart disease when you get older
PE should 100% be about health and fitness, not weight loss
This means it is also about exercising, and should INCLUDE exercising, imo
No, the sedentary lifestyle of being on an actual submarine has destroyed the fitness gains I made in school.
But in school it was pretty great, they started everyone off jogging/running in a big pack and as the fatties (like me) start to slow they give them extra encouragement, eventually breaking off the fast people into a pack where they are driven up huge hills at increasingly faster and faster speeds before being made to run up a staircase that goes on forever, while the slower people are now in their own pack that takes the same hideous course at a more reasonable pace.
By the end of it everyone is too numb and exhausted to care whether they were in the fast group or the slow group and everyone trudges back home to take a shower with nary a breath to bullshit along the way.
And damn did my run times get good.
There is a pretty big difference between kids in compulsory school, and grown men and women attempting to further the career they have chosen for themselves.
I am opposed to having competitive sports take place during gym class, I think it leads nowhere good.
are you also opposed to tests in class because they support a system of ability segregation between smart kids and dumb kids?
competetive sports are fine. life is competetive and its something kids have to learn.
Here's the thing, though. It all depends on what the point of PE class is.
Is it to teach kids how to be healthy?
Or get them to lose weight?
Cause if you want to teach them to be healthy, you have to get them to want to. I had to take a physics class in high school. Sure, it's enriching, it's necessary. But once I've finished that class I am fucking done with physics, forever. Is that so wrong if my interests lie elsewhere?
Learning physics won't help prevent heart disease when you get older
PE should 100% be about health and fitness, not weight loss
This means it is also about exercising, and should INCLUDE exercising, imo
We always did jumping jacks in mine.
I think learning how to play a sport, or various sports, is a good thing, because a lot of kids find a sport they enjoy, which does keep those kids active if they continue to play the sport.
I don't think it should be competitive or about losing weight, though.
Team sports should absolutely be taught in schools.
It's healthy, more fun than just exercising, and learning to lose is something everyone should go through. It's part of being well-balanced.
I am opposed to having competitive sports take place during gym class, I think it leads nowhere good.
are you also opposed to tests in class because they support a system of ability segregation between smart kids and dumb kids?
competetive sports are fine. life is competetive and its something kids have to learn.
Here's the thing, though. It all depends on what the point of PE class is.
Is it to teach kids how to be healthy?
Or get them to lose weight?
Cause if you want to teach them to be healthy, you have to get them to want to. I had to take a physics class in high school. Sure, it's enriching, it's necessary. But once I've finished that class I am fucking done with physics, forever. Is that so wrong if my interests lie elsewhere?
Learning physics won't help prevent heart disease when you get older
PE should 100% be about health and fitness, not weight loss
This means it is also about exercising, and should INCLUDE exercising, imo
Obese teenagers aren't thinking about being healthy. They're thinking about that girl in math class with the long blond hair.
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Thank you, Powerpuppies.
If running hadn't been inextricably linked with 45 minutes of embarrassment, self-loathing, and yes, feeling physically shitty for the activity that other people do easily, I may have liked it
As it is, it still sucks, and I hate running because I get tired easily because I'm chunky and cause I don't run I stay chunky and running makes me tired! Wow!
I'm seeing a lot of "obesity is bad for you" in this thread.
Obesity is an indicator of increased probability of certain things going wrong for you. so if obesity is associated with, say (out of my ass) a 20% higher risk of heart disease, that means if the normal percentage is 20, for an obese person, it's 24.
Obesity alone isn't really a visual indicator of how lazy or active someone is - there are NFL and NHL players, MMA fighters, sumo wrestlers, powerlifters, strongmen, etc who are all obese or overweight to the naked eye despite doing more exercise in a day then most of this forum does in a week, to say nothing of busy moms or stressed business people who may not make the time to exercise but certainly aren't "lazy"
Not only that, but the difference between "really obese" and "she's a little fat so I'm going to make fun of her" isn't set right, at the moment.
People like Zimmy, who think that joking with fat people is helpful, are fucking assholes. I'm sorry, but it's true. "I'm just trying to motivate him" is such a shit rationale for making fun of someone...
Personally, I just got back from a 2 hour MMA workout most of the people on this thread couldn't finish. I do this 2-4 times a week, judo another 2-4 hours, and other weight and cardio work the rest of the week - no less then 1/2 hour a day, seven days a week. I work outside every day in a job that can be physically demanding and weather intensive. I'm 6'5" and about 360 pounds, so I'm still a person most of you would dismiss as a lazy fatty. Behind my back, of course.
I am opposed to having competitive sports take place during gym class, I think it leads nowhere good.
are you also opposed to tests in class because they support a system of ability segregation between smart kids and dumb kids?
competetive sports are fine. life is competetive and its something kids have to learn.
Here's the thing, though. It all depends on what the point of PE class is.
Is it to teach kids how to be healthy?
Or get them to lose weight?
Cause if you want to teach them to be healthy, you have to get them to want to. I had to take a physics class in high school. Sure, it's enriching, it's necessary. But once I've finished that class I am fucking done with physics, forever. Is that so wrong if my interests lie elsewhere?
Learning physics won't help prevent heart disease when you get older
PE should 100% be about health and fitness, not weight loss
This means it is also about exercising, and should INCLUDE exercising, imo
Obese teenagers aren't thinking about being healthy. They're thinking about that girl in math class with the long blond hair.
God, the concept that teenagers might have to do something in school that they don't want to is mind boggling
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
If running hadn't been inextricably linked with 45 minutes of embarrassment, self-loathing, and yes, feeling physically shitty for the activity that other people do easily, I may have liked it
and if it was more a part of the class it might not have been those things. you would have gotten better at it automagically just by doing it a lot.
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Plus, the health risks of being fat are rarely stressed in school and in society. It's not about that cardiac arrest you're building up in your veins; it's about how your thighs look like lard sticks, you whale. And that makes a person pretty resentful.
Plus, the health risks of being fat are rarely stressed in school and in society. It's not about that cardiac arrest you're building up in your veins; it's about how your thighs look like lard sticks, you whale. And that makes a person pretty resentful.
I think everyone here agrees with that
we're trying to say start health education earlier, emphasize health benefits of exercise and proper eating habits, and maybe we can make headway on this shit
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Johnny, I'm pretty sure Zimmy was one of the more vocal opponents of making fun of fat people.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I'm seeing a lot of "obesity is bad for you" in this thread.
Obesity is an indicator of increased probability of certain things going wrong for you. so if obesity is associated with, say (out of my ass) a 20% higher risk of heart disease, that means if the normal percentage is 20, for an obese person, it's 24.
Obesity alone isn't really a visual indicator of how lazy or active someone is - there are NFL and NHL players, MMA fighters, sumo wrestlers, powerlifters, strongmen, etc who are all obese or overweight to the naked eye despite doing more exercise in a day then most of this forum does in a week, to say nothing of busy moms or stressed business people who may not make the time to exercise but certainly aren't "lazy"
Not only that, but the difference between "really obese" and "she's a little fat so I'm going to make fun of her" isn't set right, at the moment.
People like Zimmy, who think that joking with fat people is helpful, are fucking assholes. I'm sorry, but it's true. "I'm just trying to motivate him" is such a shit rationale for making fun of someone...
Personally, I just got back from a 2 hour MMA workout most of the people on this thread couldn't finish. I do this 2-4 times a week, judo another 2-4 hours, and other weight and cardio work the rest of the week - no less then 1/2 hour a day, seven days a week. I work outside every day in a job that can be physically demanding and weather intensive. I'm 6'5" and about 360 pounds, so I'm still a person most of you would dismiss as a lazy fatty. Behind my back, of course.
yes, obesity is bad for you because it increases your health risks
Body builders and pro athletes also take frankendrugs the general public doesn't even know about yet, to say nothing of their lifestyles, travel requirements, stress levels, etc.
I'm not a fat acceptance person, but I do think obesity is not the absolute marker of bad health we paint it as - especially "we" meaning the insurance industry. They aren't allowed to ask me for a family history or a genetic profile, but they can take my height and weight and judge on that!
I'm not one of the people that thinks "I should be allowed to get as fat as I want and take up two seats on the airplane for the price of one and wash myself with a rag on a stick" but I do think most people simply have the body that their genetics gives them on a moderate diet and moderate exercise - the diet most people follow and the amount most people exercise.
How do you teach kids the importance of living a healthy, active lifestyle when 1) health isn't something your average kid is thinking about, 2) most athletics in gym class enforce resentment for overweight kids, decreasing the likelihood of doing them when there's choice involved, and 3) their parents might not be on board with them being more healthy. What I mean by 3 is, bad food is easy, quick, and cheap, and a busy parent's going to prepare that in a pinch. Anyone who's gone to a nutritionalist knows that planning a week's worth of healthy meals structured just for you takes a lot more planning, time, and (not necessarily) cash to do. If your mom or dad tells you to eat the pizza, you eat the pizza, you don't argue with them about it.
I had always known this kind of stuff to a degree, that the culture around me was setting me to fail to a degree in weight loss.
But man, it became very obvious when I moved to Korea
Now I live in a place where there isnt fast food everywhere. Instead there are lots of better food options. I don't have a car, so I have to walk everywhere/take mass transit.
The sad thing is that Korean culture is in some ways moving towards the American system. More fast food places opening, less time or emphasis on exercise. Everyone has a car, so noone walks as much. Hopefully there isnt a fat Korean epidemic in 30-40 years.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
How do you teach kids the importance of living a healthy, active lifestyle when 1) health isn't something your average kid is thinking about, 2) most athletics in gym class enforce resentment for overweight kids, decreasing the likelihood of doing them when there's choice involved, and 3) their parents might not be on board with them being more healthy. What I mean by 3 is, bad food is easy, quick, and cheap, and a busy parent's going to prepare that in a pinch. Anyone who's gone to a nutritionalist knows that planning a week's worth of healthy meals structured just for you takes a lot more planning, time, and (not necessarily) cash to do. If your mom or dad tells you to eat the pizza, you eat the pizza, you don't argue with them about it.
the same way you teach them math when most of them don't care about it, some of them are bad at it, and their parents plop them in front of the tv for five hours after school until bed.
if I get to a movie tonight... supposed to be studying.
The one that has to do with fat acceptance. :P
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Triple BBastard of the NorthMARegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I haven't read through this entire thread, just skimmed through a bit. I'm not going to say that my word is law, or that I'm right and you're wrong, but I feel like I have something valuable to add. If what I'm going to say has already been said, forgive me. As I said, I did not read the rest of the thread.
I've been overweight my whole life. I am a firm (figuratively speaking) believer that life is what you make it. If you have a physical shortcoming, I don't think it gives you the right to bitch and moan like the world owes you something. I've never made any bones about the fact that I'm fat because I don't make physical activity a big priority. My problem is that a lot of people think it's okay to be rude, inconsiderate pricks towards me just because of the way I look. You can say "It's not the same, fatty" all you want, but it truly is absolutely no different from using racial slurs towards ethnic minorities. We didn't necessarily choose to be fat, either. Maybe our parents didn't act like parents when we were very young. Maybe our dad never taught us to ride a bike or throw a football, or maybe we were never encouraged to go outside and play with other kids. Maybe our parents relied on food and video games to keep us occupied so they wouldn't have to pay attention. Circumstances vary.
I don't think fat people should be "protected" or specially catered to. But I do think that the rest of the world would do well to learn some manners and accept the fact that we, too are human beings with feelings. We don't deserve to be ridiculed just because you find it an inconvenience that you have to look at us. It speaks volumes of how inconsiderate people are that someone who is overweight is made to feel afraid to go out in public for fear of what someone else might say or do to them. When a fat girl goes out for a walk in an attempt to lose weight, and some kids throw food at her while driving by, do you think it's likely that she'll go out for a walk again any time soon? When a fat guy goes into Wal Mart to pick up a CD or something, and the cashier looks at him like he's a leper, how do you think that makes him feel about going out in public?
Someone who's never been overweight before simply does not understand. For a fat person, everything you take for granted is much more difficult. Riding a bike, playing sports, even something as simple as walking up a flight of stairs.
I don't want to be treated like I'm handicapped, I just want to be treated with the respect any human being deserves.
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
How do you teach kids the importance of living a healthy, active lifestyle when 1) health isn't something your average kid is thinking about, 2) most athletics in gym class enforce resentment for overweight kids, decreasing the likelihood of doing them when there's choice involved, and 3) their parents might not be on board with them being more healthy. What I mean by 3 is, bad food is easy, quick, and cheap, and a busy parent's going to prepare that in a pinch. Anyone who's gone to a nutritionalist knows that planning a week's worth of healthy meals structured just for you takes a lot more planning, time, and (not necessarily) cash to do. If your mom or dad tells you to eat the pizza, you eat the pizza, you don't argue with them about it.
the same way you teach them math when most of them don't care about it, some of them are bad at it, and their parents plop them in front of the tv for five hours after school until bed.
I don't think testing kids' athletic abilities is the way to go. Mostly because I would have failed, awfully, and I would have hated that affecting my GPA and not letting me go to the place I wanted for what I really wanted to study cause I can't make a mile in under 10 minutes
Body builders and pro athletes also take frankendrugs the general public doesn't even know about yet, to say nothing of their lifestyles, travel requirements, stress levels, etc.
I'm not a fat acceptance person, but I do think obesity is not the absolute marker of bad health we paint it as - especially "we" meaning the insurance industry. They aren't allowed to ask me for a family history or a genetic profile, but they can take my height and weight and judge on that!
I'm not one of the people that thinks "I should be allowed to get as fat as I want and take up two seats on the airplane for the price of one and wash myself with a rag on a stick" but I do think most people simply have the body that their genetics gives them on a moderate diet and moderate exercise - the diet most people follow and the amount most people exercise.
Obesity is actually one of the worst common health risks. It's up there with smoking. It sucks, believe me. I managed to quit smoking and now I'm struggling with the 15 lbs. I gained from doing that. And I wasn't thin to begin with, if you know what I mean.
I am opposed to having competitive sports take place during gym class, I think it leads nowhere good.
are you also opposed to tests in class because they support a system of ability segregation between smart kids and dumb kids?
competetive sports are fine. life is competetive and its something kids have to learn.
Here's the thing, though. It all depends on what the point of PE class is.
Is it to teach kids how to be healthy?
Or get them to lose weight?
Cause if you want to teach them to be healthy, you have to get them to want to. I had to take a physics class in high school. Sure, it's enriching, it's necessary. But once I've finished that class I am fucking done with physics, forever. Is that so wrong if my interests lie elsewhere?
Learning physics won't help prevent heart disease when you get older
PE should 100% be about health and fitness, not weight loss
This means it is also about exercising, and should INCLUDE exercising, imo
Obese teenagers aren't thinking about being healthy. They're thinking about that girl in math class with the long blond hair.
God, the concept that teenagers might have to do something in school that they don't want to is mind boggling
Have to? Most classes I took that I didn't need for the future, I did the bare minimum because the only thing that mattered was that I got the credit. If you think that kids with no real incentive are going to actually commit to this than I want what you're smoking. In most places anyway, health class isn't mandatory throughout post-secondary education. Tell me, who do you think keeps up with PE? I dropped it because of the change rooms and the sweating, while most people who kept up with it did it to keep playing games for one period a day.
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I haven't read through this entire thread, just skimmed through a bit. I'm not going to say that my word is law, or that I'm right and you're wrong, but I feel like I have something valuable to add. If what I'm going to say has already been said, forgive me. As I said, I did not read the rest of the thread.
I've been overweight my whole life. I am a firm (figuratively speaking) believer that life is what you make it. If you have a physical shortcoming, I don't think it gives you the right to bitch and moan like the world owes you something. I've never made any bones about the fact that I'm fat because I don't make physical activity a big priority. My problem is that a lot of people think it's okay to be rude, inconsiderate pricks towards me just because of the way I look. You can say "It's not the same, fatty" all you want, but it truly is absolutely no different from using racial slurs towards ethnic minorities. We didn't necessarily choose to be fat, either. Maybe our parents didn't act like parents when we were very young. Maybe our dad never taught us to ride a bike or throw a football, or maybe we were never encouraged to go outside and play with other kids. Maybe our parents relied on food and video games to keep us occupied so they wouldn't have to pay attention. Circumstances vary.
I don't think fat people should be "protected" or specially catered to. But I do think that the rest of the world would do well to learn some manners and accept the fact that we, too are human beings with feelings. We don't deserve to be ridiculed just because you find it an inconvenience that you have to look at us. It speaks volumes of how inconsiderate people are that someone who is overweight is made to feel afraid to go out in public for fear of what someone else might say or do to them. When a fat girl goes out for a walk in an attempt to lose weight, and some kids throw food at her while driving by, do you think it's likely that she'll go out for a walk again any time soon? When a fat guy goes into Wal Mart to pick up a CD or something, and the cashier looks at him like he's a leper, how do you think that makes him feel about going out in public?
Someone who's never been overweight before simply does not understand. For a fat person, everything you take for granted is much more difficult. Riding a bike, playing sports, even something as simple as walking up a flight of stairs.
I don't want to be treated like I'm handicapped, I just want to be treated with the respect any human being deserves.
It has been said before, but not as often as much, much, sillier things. Besides, this is the sort of thing that's worth covering twice. Well stated.
Everything Thanatos is saying in this thread hits all the right nails on the head. The rest of you (well, some of you) are making dents in the wood instead.
jeepguy, that is the terrible fucking idea. Yes, yell at a kid for being slow, so that they will garner the sniggers of their peers. That will do great to motivate them to get out in front of everybody and fail to be good enough! Because when you are operating on the assumption that you're the "slow one" or the "fat one" then of course you'll just keep trucking to succeed, not retreat from to avoid the humiliation!
Seriously. What Thanatos said about the gym being a place for healthy people and not people who want to be healthy is absolutely correct. I know it's part of the reason why I am straight up terrified of going to the gym. And the first person who says "Just don't be afraid" is gonna get smacked. That kind of reduction of legitimate fear to a simple on/off switch never helped anybody.
I won't say "don't be afraid" but I will say that you should find a YWCA rather than a regular gym.
I'd say the JCC should be a go-to answer, simply because it's hard to tell gender over the internet. The changing rooms are full of old people (although I could never figure out where they go, as there's never more than one of them in whatever fitness room I'm in), so you won't be the ugliest there. I personally jump on the eliptical in one of the little branch fitness rooms on my campus for the TDS/TCR hour (burns 1100 calories, on average). The room's small enough for me to change the TV and turn up the volume w/o complaints (it also helps that everybody likes those shows). It's not the most effective because my dorm's right next to the all you can eat caf and the only thing edible there is the ice cream, but it hold off the weight enough so I can eat a self-made sundae nightly without blowing up like a balloon.
I also lift weighs at least twice a week (gym class), which should help me gain muscle weight, which will help me burn calories faster (I'm also thinking of weighing down my jackets to accomplish that purpose).
Also, I read somewhere that there are people who were so fat that they get around using wheelchairs, and get their insurance to pay for it. Fuck that.
How do you teach kids the importance of living a healthy, active lifestyle when 1) health isn't something your average kid is thinking about, 2) most athletics in gym class enforce resentment for overweight kids, decreasing the likelihood of doing them when there's choice involved, and 3) their parents might not be on board with them being more healthy. What I mean by 3 is, bad food is easy, quick, and cheap, and a busy parent's going to prepare that in a pinch. Anyone who's gone to a nutritionalist knows that planning a week's worth of healthy meals structured just for you takes a lot more planning, time, and (not necessarily) cash to do. If your mom or dad tells you to eat the pizza, you eat the pizza, you don't argue with them about it.
Speaking personally, school food was part of the problem in my school system. The school lunch was still on a WWII era menu that basically attempted to feed people a 1500 calorie meal (the rationale being that some kids, being poor, get only school lunch).
Of course, we also had someone who attempted to make you clean your plate supervising the lunchroom exit until 8th grade. Not a big deal for me, but making an 80 pound girl eat 1500 calories at a setting is just fucking with her, really.
Yes, fat people much prefer it when you treat them like a hypersensitive child rather than a friend with human flaws like the rest of us.
Please find something I have said that would suggest I have been demeaning or hurtful to people with weight issues, or to show that I believe negative reinforcement to be anything but catastrophically unhelpful. Give me a quote in its proper context that justifies singling me out.
I treat my illness with a great deal of levity, because otherwise I'd spend most of my time wallowing in self-pity. Quite literally all of my close friends are or have been overweight at some point in their lives, and they all take it in stride when they can. Just because you know someone who is self-conscious about their weight to the point that trying to get them to laugh about it causes them to break out in rage-tears doesn't mean the rest of the world is so wretchedly unhappy. It's not about "motivating" people for Christ's sake, it's about removing the taboo and making your own flaws something that can be talked about, even joked about, without anybody getting hurt.
Most of what you said, I would be inclined to agree with, but the dig against me personally is just staggering.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
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How do you teach kids the importance of living a healthy, active lifestyle when 1) health isn't something your average kid is thinking about, 2) most athletics in gym class enforce resentment for overweight kids, decreasing the likelihood of doing them when there's choice involved, and 3) their parents might not be on board with them being more healthy. What I mean by 3 is, bad food is easy, quick, and cheap, and a busy parent's going to prepare that in a pinch. Anyone who's gone to a nutritionalist knows that planning a week's worth of healthy meals structured just for you takes a lot more planning, time, and (not necessarily) cash to do. If your mom or dad tells you to eat the pizza, you eat the pizza, you don't argue with them about it.
Speaking personally, school food was part of the problem in my school system. The school lunch was still on a WWII era menu that basically attempted to feed people a 1500 calorie meal (the rationale being that some kids, being poor, get only school lunch).
Of course, we also had someone who attempted to make you clean your plate supervising the lunchroom exit until 8th grade. Not a big deal for me, but making an 80 pound girl eat 1500 calories at a setting is just fucking with her, really.
I never ate the healthy, well balanced food available at my school because it was prepared so poorly. It's hard to fuck up french fries.
Of course when you're young (and even when you're not), being liked by your peers and being physically attractive are far more powerful motivators than general health. If peer pressure doesn't work I don't see how education alone is going to change things.
No, honestly, I think to change things there have to broader changes, like financial incentives to exercise, more availability for mass transit, making healthy food cheaper and workers working less hours so they have more time to rest and more energy to exercise. You know, basically everything.
I just think trying to pick out a single reason why obesity is increasing is wrong-headed. There are so many things tripping people up on the road to being healthy that it's going to take some pretty big changes.
How do you teach kids the importance of living a healthy, active lifestyle when 1) health isn't something your average kid is thinking about, 2) most athletics in gym class enforce resentment for overweight kids, decreasing the likelihood of doing them when there's choice involved, and 3) their parents might not be on board with them being more healthy. What I mean by 3 is, bad food is easy, quick, and cheap, and a busy parent's going to prepare that in a pinch. Anyone who's gone to a nutritionalist knows that planning a week's worth of healthy meals structured just for you takes a lot more planning, time, and (not necessarily) cash to do. If your mom or dad tells you to eat the pizza, you eat the pizza, you don't argue with them about it.
the same way you teach them math when most of them don't care about it, some of them are bad at it, and their parents plop them in front of the tv for five hours after school until bed.
I don't think testing kids' athletic abilities is the way to go. Mostly because I would have failed, awfully, and I would have hated that affecting my GPA and not letting me go to the place I wanted for what I really wanted to study cause I can't make a mile in under 10 minutes
How do you teach kids the importance of living a healthy, active lifestyle when 1) health isn't something your average kid is thinking about, 2) most athletics in gym class enforce resentment for overweight kids, decreasing the likelihood of doing them when there's choice involved, and 3) their parents might not be on board with them being more healthy. What I mean by 3 is, bad food is easy, quick, and cheap, and a busy parent's going to prepare that in a pinch. Anyone who's gone to a nutritionalist knows that planning a week's worth of healthy meals structured just for you takes a lot more planning, time, and (not necessarily) cash to do. If your mom or dad tells you to eat the pizza, you eat the pizza, you don't argue with them about it.
do you have a suggestion that goes beyond throwing up our hands
Learning physics won't help prevent heart disease when you get older
PE should 100% be about health and fitness, not weight loss
This means it is also about exercising, and should INCLUDE exercising, imo
Obese teenagers aren't thinking about being healthy. They're thinking about that girl in math class with the long blond hair.
God, the concept that teenagers might have to do something in school that they don't want to is mind boggling
Have to? Most classes I took that I didn't need for the future, I did the bare minimum because the only thing that mattered was that I got the credit. If you think that kids with no real incentive are going to actually commit to this than I want what you're smoking. In most places anyway, health class isn't mandatory throughout post-secondary education. Tell me, who do you think keeps up with PE? I dropped it because of the change rooms and the sweating, while most people who kept up with it did it to keep playing games for one period a day.
So teens only want to do the bare minimum PE classes required to graduate
Why not make sure those classes are the best they can be and the most informative and hte most likely tos eed better habits later in life?
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Apologies, you're absolutely right. I should have said powerlifters, not bodybuilders.
Kids are terrible. It's so much better when you're an adult. When my slow, old ass is lagging on the last lap of my mile and a half PRT run I don't hear anything but encouragement (and yes, people screaming at you to keep running is encouragement) and I can't count the number of times where I've seen the really fast people run multiple extra laps beyond what is required of them so as not to discourage the slower people by having them see people who are already done and off the track.
I have to agree.
the end of dodgeball, though it's a weird thing to mention I guess, I thought was great, the faux advertisement for Average Joe's Gym.
Is it to teach kids how to be healthy?
Or get them to lose weight?
Cause if you want to teach them to be healthy, you have to get them to want to. I had to take a physics class in high school. Sure, it's enriching, it's necessary. But once I've finished that class I am fucking done with physics, forever. Is that so wrong if my interests lie elsewhere?
NNID: Hakkekage
Obesity is an indicator of increased probability of certain things going wrong for you. so if obesity is associated with, say (out of my ass) a 20% higher risk of heart disease, that means if the normal percentage is 20, for an obese person, it's 24.
Obesity alone isn't really a visual indicator of how lazy or active someone is - there are NFL and NHL players, MMA fighters, sumo wrestlers, powerlifters, strongmen, etc who are all obese or overweight to the naked eye despite doing more exercise in a day then most of this forum does in a week, to say nothing of busy moms or stressed business people who may not make the time to exercise but certainly aren't "lazy"
Not only that, but the difference between "really obese" and "she's a little fat so I'm going to make fun of her" isn't set right, at the moment.
People like Zimmy, who think that joking with fat people is helpful, are fucking assholes. I'm sorry, but it's true. "I'm just trying to motivate him" is such a shit rationale for making fun of someone...
Personally, I just got back from a 2 hour MMA workout most of the people on this thread couldn't finish. I do this 2-4 times a week, judo another 2-4 hours, and other weight and cardio work the rest of the week - no less then 1/2 hour a day, seven days a week. I work outside every day in a job that can be physically demanding and weather intensive. I'm 6'5" and about 360 pounds, so I'm still a person most of you would dismiss as a lazy fatty. Behind my back, of course.
I host a podcast about movies.
School competitions are voluntary for the most part, as are elective sports. Tests are not graded on a curve, and certainly not on a bell curve and are therefore noncompetitive.
Class rankings can be competitive, but that phenomena is externally driven by the colleges, and even still some schools refuse to play that game.
I'm in favor of teaching kids how to be healthy rather than making them exercise. Teach a man to fish and all that.
PE should 100% be about health and fitness, not weight loss
This means it is also about exercising, and should INCLUDE exercising, imo
We always did jumping jacks in mine.
I think learning how to play a sport, or various sports, is a good thing, because a lot of kids find a sport they enjoy, which does keep those kids active if they continue to play the sport.
I don't think it should be competitive or about losing weight, though.
It's healthy, more fun than just exercising, and learning to lose is something everyone should go through. It's part of being well-balanced.
Obese teenagers aren't thinking about being healthy. They're thinking about that girl in math class with the long blond hair.
If running hadn't been inextricably linked with 45 minutes of embarrassment, self-loathing, and yes, feeling physically shitty for the activity that other people do easily, I may have liked it
As it is, it still sucks, and I hate running because I get tired easily because I'm chunky and cause I don't run I stay chunky and running makes me tired! Wow!
NNID: Hakkekage
yes, judging people by their appearance is wrong
yes, obesity is bad for you because it increases your health risks
and if it was more a part of the class it might not have been those things. you would have gotten better at it automagically just by doing it a lot.
NNID: Hakkekage
I think everyone here agrees with that
we're trying to say start health education earlier, emphasize health benefits of exercise and proper eating habits, and maybe we can make headway on this shit
Body builders and pro athletes also take frankendrugs the general public doesn't even know about yet, to say nothing of their lifestyles, travel requirements, stress levels, etc.
I'm not a fat acceptance person, but I do think obesity is not the absolute marker of bad health we paint it as - especially "we" meaning the insurance industry. They aren't allowed to ask me for a family history or a genetic profile, but they can take my height and weight and judge on that!
I'm not one of the people that thinks "I should be allowed to get as fat as I want and take up two seats on the airplane for the price of one and wash myself with a rag on a stick" but I do think most people simply have the body that their genetics gives them on a moderate diet and moderate exercise - the diet most people follow and the amount most people exercise.
I host a podcast about movies.
I had always known this kind of stuff to a degree, that the culture around me was setting me to fail to a degree in weight loss.
But man, it became very obvious when I moved to Korea
Now I live in a place where there isnt fast food everywhere. Instead there are lots of better food options. I don't have a car, so I have to walk everywhere/take mass transit.
The sad thing is that Korean culture is in some ways moving towards the American system. More fast food places opening, less time or emphasis on exercise. Everyone has a car, so noone walks as much. Hopefully there isnt a fat Korean epidemic in 30-40 years.
PSN: Corbius
the same way you teach them math when most of them don't care about it, some of them are bad at it, and their parents plop them in front of the tv for five hours after school until bed.
The one that has to do with fat acceptance. :P
I've been overweight my whole life. I am a firm (figuratively speaking) believer that life is what you make it. If you have a physical shortcoming, I don't think it gives you the right to bitch and moan like the world owes you something. I've never made any bones about the fact that I'm fat because I don't make physical activity a big priority. My problem is that a lot of people think it's okay to be rude, inconsiderate pricks towards me just because of the way I look. You can say "It's not the same, fatty" all you want, but it truly is absolutely no different from using racial slurs towards ethnic minorities. We didn't necessarily choose to be fat, either. Maybe our parents didn't act like parents when we were very young. Maybe our dad never taught us to ride a bike or throw a football, or maybe we were never encouraged to go outside and play with other kids. Maybe our parents relied on food and video games to keep us occupied so they wouldn't have to pay attention. Circumstances vary.
I don't think fat people should be "protected" or specially catered to. But I do think that the rest of the world would do well to learn some manners and accept the fact that we, too are human beings with feelings. We don't deserve to be ridiculed just because you find it an inconvenience that you have to look at us. It speaks volumes of how inconsiderate people are that someone who is overweight is made to feel afraid to go out in public for fear of what someone else might say or do to them. When a fat girl goes out for a walk in an attempt to lose weight, and some kids throw food at her while driving by, do you think it's likely that she'll go out for a walk again any time soon? When a fat guy goes into Wal Mart to pick up a CD or something, and the cashier looks at him like he's a leper, how do you think that makes him feel about going out in public?
Someone who's never been overweight before simply does not understand. For a fat person, everything you take for granted is much more difficult. Riding a bike, playing sports, even something as simple as walking up a flight of stairs.
I don't want to be treated like I'm handicapped, I just want to be treated with the respect any human being deserves.
NNID: Hakkekage
Obesity is actually one of the worst common health risks. It's up there with smoking. It sucks, believe me. I managed to quit smoking and now I'm struggling with the 15 lbs. I gained from doing that. And I wasn't thin to begin with, if you know what I mean.
Have to? Most classes I took that I didn't need for the future, I did the bare minimum because the only thing that mattered was that I got the credit. If you think that kids with no real incentive are going to actually commit to this than I want what you're smoking. In most places anyway, health class isn't mandatory throughout post-secondary education. Tell me, who do you think keeps up with PE? I dropped it because of the change rooms and the sweating, while most people who kept up with it did it to keep playing games for one period a day.
It has been said before, but not as often as much, much, sillier things. Besides, this is the sort of thing that's worth covering twice. Well stated.
I'd say the JCC should be a go-to answer, simply because it's hard to tell gender over the internet. The changing rooms are full of old people (although I could never figure out where they go, as there's never more than one of them in whatever fitness room I'm in), so you won't be the ugliest there. I personally jump on the eliptical in one of the little branch fitness rooms on my campus for the TDS/TCR hour (burns 1100 calories, on average). The room's small enough for me to change the TV and turn up the volume w/o complaints (it also helps that everybody likes those shows). It's not the most effective because my dorm's right next to the all you can eat caf and the only thing edible there is the ice cream, but it hold off the weight enough so I can eat a self-made sundae nightly without blowing up like a balloon.
I also lift weighs at least twice a week (gym class), which should help me gain muscle weight, which will help me burn calories faster (I'm also thinking of weighing down my jackets to accomplish that purpose).
Also, I read somewhere that there are people who were so fat that they get around using wheelchairs, and get their insurance to pay for it. Fuck that.
Speaking personally, school food was part of the problem in my school system. The school lunch was still on a WWII era menu that basically attempted to feed people a 1500 calorie meal (the rationale being that some kids, being poor, get only school lunch).
Of course, we also had someone who attempted to make you clean your plate supervising the lunchroom exit until 8th grade. Not a big deal for me, but making an 80 pound girl eat 1500 calories at a setting is just fucking with her, really.
I host a podcast about movies.
Yes, fat people much prefer it when you treat them like a hypersensitive child rather than a friend with human flaws like the rest of us.
Please find something I have said that would suggest I have been demeaning or hurtful to people with weight issues, or to show that I believe negative reinforcement to be anything but catastrophically unhelpful. Give me a quote in its proper context that justifies singling me out.
I treat my illness with a great deal of levity, because otherwise I'd spend most of my time wallowing in self-pity. Quite literally all of my close friends are or have been overweight at some point in their lives, and they all take it in stride when they can. Just because you know someone who is self-conscious about their weight to the point that trying to get them to laugh about it causes them to break out in rage-tears doesn't mean the rest of the world is so wretchedly unhappy. It's not about "motivating" people for Christ's sake, it's about removing the taboo and making your own flaws something that can be talked about, even joked about, without anybody getting hurt.
Most of what you said, I would be inclined to agree with, but the dig against me personally is just staggering.
I'm retarded. sorry all.
I never ate the healthy, well balanced food available at my school because it was prepared so poorly. It's hard to fuck up french fries.
No, honestly, I think to change things there have to broader changes, like financial incentives to exercise, more availability for mass transit, making healthy food cheaper and workers working less hours so they have more time to rest and more energy to exercise. You know, basically everything.
I just think trying to pick out a single reason why obesity is increasing is wrong-headed. There are so many things tripping people up on the road to being healthy that it's going to take some pretty big changes.
I'm not saying testing at all.
do you have a suggestion that goes beyond throwing up our hands
Why not make sure those classes are the best they can be and the most informative and hte most likely tos eed better habits later in life?
or we could just concede lol horny teens I guess