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[Pro Wrestling]ZZ TOP HOSTS RAW NEXT WEEK! Night of Champions July 26th!

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Posts

  • chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Whoa, that's crazy news. Do they say what he died off? Although I'm sure we are all thinking the same thing.

    He really could have been a star, but they never did anything with him after the HHH/Steph angle. He had a ready made feud there, but HHH fought him once and beat him pretty definately.

    I'd put money on an Eddie-ish heart problem.

    But how bad do you have to be to get kicked out of TNA?

    The list never changes: http://www.infinitebacklog.com
    Chamberlain.jpg
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    KurnDerak wrote: »
    Jeff vs. Triple H tend to be pretty decent matches, and his Umaga matches weren't bad.

    Personally, my problem with Jeff is he is one of those wrestlers that has a decent amount of notable moves, but the people who control the matches make him do almost all of them every match. So we always get that one where someone grabs his foot, and he flips around into a donkey kick or something, I dunno what its called, we get whisper in the wind, we get the double kick to the person in the corner, usually a twist of fate followed by a swanton bomb, and I think one or two others.
    It becomes more annoying when it happens each and every week over and over... against the same person like his fued with Umaga. So he can have good matches, I just don't like watching them too close to one another.

    Everyone does that. Austin did, Rock did, Cena does, Triple H does, Benoit did, etc. It's just more noticable because Jeff is an underdog type who genrally gets his ass beat on for most of the match, with big comebacks sprinkled in between...so most of his offense is his "signature" offense. But having a handful of moves and spots that you break out in every match is incredibly common in wrestling. It's because the crowd is warmed up to it, so it gets a pop...generally you want to build the match around these recognizable spots.

    iYBQTfcwSi2EW.jpg
  • QuickSnapQuickSnap Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Whoa, that's crazy news. Do they say what he died off? Although I'm sure we are all thinking the same thing.

    He really could have been a star, but they never did anything with him after the HHH/Steph angle. He had a ready made feud there, but HHH fought him once and beat him pretty definitely.

    I'd put money on an Eddie-ish heart problem.

    But how bad do you have to be to get kicked out of TNA?

    He wasn't kicked out of TNA per se, he was in TNA shortly after the Benoit tragedy and from the reports at the time, he was quite large (had been hitting the juice) so TNA told him to come back when he didn't look so freakish. They apparently didn't want to get some of the heat of having roided up wrestlers, though that in and of itself was unavoidable.

    "A little bit esoteric. Just bare with him, he'll get it right eventually; or drink himself death. Which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, really."

    Satan is my motor gifting person.
  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    My dad just told me about Test.

    Man that sucks. I still remember him vs. Shane at Summerslam when Shane first showed just how wacko he is by jumping through the announce table from the top rope.

  • KurnDerakKurnDerak Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Everyone does that. Austin did, Rock did, Cena does, Triple H does, Benoit did, etc. It's just more noticable because Jeff is an underdog type who genrally gets his ass beat on for most of the match, with big comebacks sprinkled in between...so most of his offense is his "signature" offense. But having a handful of moves and spots that you break out in every match is incredibly common in wrestling. It's because the crowd is warmed up to it, so it gets a pop...generally you want to build the match around these recognizable spots.

    I've watched very few Austin or Rock matches, but yea, I know Cena, HHH, and so forth do it. I think for myself the reason its so noticable with Jeff Hardy is a lot of his are done back to back in the match, or at least it used to be that way. So once he started it was the same string of moves in near the same way.

    And on David_Ts comment. I honestly don't know a lot of what goes into a match, mainly how much is pre-planned, such as someone saying "You need to do this spot here, and pull this here, and this is how it ends". I just sort of assumed there would be people saying "Hey, this move gets a reaction, do it each match". Though obviously a wrestler can only have so many moves they can reliably pull off on a regular basis.

    Also, on a completely different note, why did CM Punk stop using the anaconda vice and move to the GTS? I personally would like to see him use both, as I think its good to see a wrestler that can finish with a strong hit or a submission to mix things up.

  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    KurnDerak wrote: »
    Everyone does that. Austin did, Rock did, Cena does, Triple H does, Benoit did, etc. It's just more noticable because Jeff is an underdog type who genrally gets his ass beat on for most of the match, with big comebacks sprinkled in between...so most of his offense is his "signature" offense. But having a handful of moves and spots that you break out in every match is incredibly common in wrestling. It's because the crowd is warmed up to it, so it gets a pop...generally you want to build the match around these recognizable spots.

    I've watched very few Austin or Rock matches, but yea, I know Cena, HHH, and so forth do it. I think for myself the reason its so noticable with Jeff Hardy is a lot of his are done back to back in the match, or at least it used to be that way. So once he started it was the same string of moves in near the same way.

    And on David_Ts comment. I honestly don't know a lot of what goes into a match, mainly how much is pre-planned, such as someone saying "You need to do this spot here, and pull this here, and this is how it ends". I just sort of assumed there would be people saying "Hey, this move gets a reaction, do it each match". Though obviously a wrestler can only have so many moves they can reliably pull off on a regular basis.

    Also, on a completely different note, why did CM Punk stop using the anaconda vice and move to the GTS? I personally would like to see him use both, as I think its good to see a wrestler that can finish with a strong hit or a submission to mix things up.

    He might have stopped using it cause it doesn't look that great for a finisher. And since he isn't high up in the food chain, he isn't able to continously use it until it gets over as a competent finisher(Like Cena did with his STFU, which I still hate)

    And yeah, wrestlers do have a bunch of common moves that they string together. Heck, look at some of Bret's last matches and he's basically doing the same five moves in a row before winning the match. The thing with jeff is that apart from his set moves, he has almost no offense whatsoever. Whether that's from lack of skill or just the way he's contastantly booked, I don't know.

    Spoiler:
  • David_TDavid_T Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    noir_blood wrote: »
    And yeah, wrestlers do have a bunch of common moves that they string together. Heck, look at all of Bret's matches and he's basically doing the Five Moves Of Doom before winning the match.

    The one thing reading Scott Keith recaps have imprinted in me. It even has its own TV trope.

    steam_sig.png
    occasionallywearsahat.com, my rambly ramblings of ramble
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Bret even talks about his Five Moves of Doom in his book that I haven't finished reading yet.

    They basically came out of a match against Dynamite Kid, if I recall...

  • SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    David_T wrote: »
    noir_blood wrote: »
    And yeah, wrestlers do have a bunch of common moves that they string together. Heck, look at all of Bret's matches and he's basically doing the Five Moves Of Doom before winning the match.
    The one thing reading Scott Keith recaps have imprinted in me. It even has its own TV trope.
    From that link:
    Scottie Too Hottie: Facebuster from Behind, The Worm, miss the elbow drop, get hit by opponents finisher, lose.

  • Auntie ShibbyAuntie Shibby Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    David_T wrote: »
    noir_blood wrote: »
    And yeah, wrestlers do have a bunch of common moves that they string together. Heck, look at all of Bret's matches and he's basically doing the Five Moves Of Doom before winning the match.

    The one thing reading Scott Keith recaps have imprinted in me. It even has its own TV trope.
    Wow, thats a really awesome website.

    clowninthewoods.png
  • ANTVGM64ANTVGM64 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So I've figured out that if you've ever been one of my favorite wrestlers, you're going to die.

    Owen, Eddie, Crash Holly (Shut up), Benoit (who was my 2nd all time favorite), Test.

    Is Mick Foley under some kind of protective custody?

  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    ANTVGM64 wrote: »
    So I've figured out that if you've ever been one of my favorite wrestlers, you're going to die.

    Owen, Eddie, Crash Holly (Shut up), Benoit (who was my 2nd all time favorite), Test.

    Is Mick Foley under some kind of protective custody?


    Man, Crash was awesome. Without him we wouldn't have had the 24 hour rule on the hardcore belt, which brought lots of great moments. I forgot he passed away.

    And Mick Foley is better than protective custory. He's in TNA, where no one will ever spot him again.*rimshot*

    Spoiler:
  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    ANTVGM64 wrote: »
    So I've figured out that if you've ever been one of my favorite wrestlers, you're going to die.

    Owen, Eddie, Crash Holly (Shut up), Benoit (who was my 2nd all time favorite), Test.

    Is Mick Foley under some kind of protective custody?

    You stay the hell away from Shawn Michaels.

  • LegacyLegacy SCP Of The Digital Frontier The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    ANTVGM64 wrote: »
    So I've figured out that if you've ever been one of my favorite wrestlers, you're going to die.

    Owen, Eddie, Crash Holly (Shut up), Benoit (who was my 2nd all time favorite), Test.

    Is Mick Foley under some kind of protective custody?

    You stay the hell away from Shawn Michaels.

    Shawn is just about done anyway...

    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
  • Stevo 22Stevo 22 Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Legacy wrote: »
    ANTVGM64 wrote: »
    So I've figured out that if you've ever been one of my favorite wrestlers, you're going to die.

    Owen, Eddie, Crash Holly (Shut up), Benoit (who was my 2nd all time favorite), Test.

    Is Mick Foley under some kind of protective custody?

    You stay the hell away from Shawn Michaels.

    Shawn is just about done anyway...

    I consider the post 'born again' Shawn Michaels to be a completely different entity than the Heartbreak Kid. It helps me sleep at night.

    "It's do or die." "Hey, I've died twice."
  • LegacyLegacy SCP Of The Digital Frontier The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    Stevo 22 wrote: »
    Legacy wrote: »
    ANTVGM64 wrote: »
    So I've figured out that if you've ever been one of my favorite wrestlers, you're going to die.

    Owen, Eddie, Crash Holly (Shut up), Benoit (who was my 2nd all time favorite), Test.

    Is Mick Foley under some kind of protective custody?

    You stay the hell away from Shawn Michaels.

    Shawn is just about done anyway...

    I consider the post 'born again' Shawn Michaels to be a completely different entity than the Heartbreak Kid. It helps me sleep at night.

    Yes, but look at him. His face is just tired. Sagging eye. :| And it's hard to think of them as different while he still has that same shitty theme song. Even Undertaker has changed his a bit. I guess he did once when he was in DX, but factions are weird and his theme was still his regular one in singles, I think.

    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
  • Stevo 22Stevo 22 Registered User
    edited March 2009
    Legacy wrote: »
    Stevo 22 wrote: »
    Legacy wrote: »
    ANTVGM64 wrote: »
    So I've figured out that if you've ever been one of my favorite wrestlers, you're going to die.

    Owen, Eddie, Crash Holly (Shut up), Benoit (who was my 2nd all time favorite), Test.

    Is Mick Foley under some kind of protective custody?

    You stay the hell away from Shawn Michaels.

    Shawn is just about done anyway...

    I consider the post 'born again' Shawn Michaels to be a completely different entity than the Heartbreak Kid. It helps me sleep at night.

    Yes, but look at him. His face is just tired. Sagging eye. :| And it's hard to think of them as different while he still has that same shitty theme song. Even Undertaker has changed his a bit. I guess he did once when he was in DX, but factions are weird and his theme was still his regular one in singles, I think.

    I don't want to look at him. It's depressing. He should have went out after his back injury and retired as one of the greats. Instead, he came back and sullied the legacy. I had a tear in my eye when he left after losing to Austin, he was one of my favorite entertainers - from any medium. But returning was a mistake.

    "It's do or die." "Hey, I've died twice."
  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Stevo 22 wrote: »
    Legacy wrote: »
    Stevo 22 wrote: »
    Legacy wrote: »
    ANTVGM64 wrote: »
    So I've figured out that if you've ever been one of my favorite wrestlers, you're going to die.

    Owen, Eddie, Crash Holly (Shut up), Benoit (who was my 2nd all time favorite), Test.

    Is Mick Foley under some kind of protective custody?

    You stay the hell away from Shawn Michaels.

    Shawn is just about done anyway...

    I consider the post 'born again' Shawn Michaels to be a completely different entity than the Heartbreak Kid. It helps me sleep at night.

    Yes, but look at him. His face is just tired. Sagging eye. :| And it's hard to think of them as different while he still has that same shitty theme song. Even Undertaker has changed his a bit. I guess he did once when he was in DX, but factions are weird and his theme was still his regular one in singles, I think.

    I don't want to look at him. It's depressing. He should have went out after his back injury and retired as one of the greats. Instead, he came back and sullied the legacy. I had a tear in my eye when he left after losing to Austin, he was one of my favorite entertainers - from any medium. But returning was a mistake.

    Why?

    He's still a great wrestler and manages to hang with almost everyone he's paired with.

    I do agree that he needs a new gimmick. The 'Heartbreak Kid/DX Buffoon' thing is A) played out, and more importantly B) Just plain sad nowadays.

    Nonetheless, I still enjoy his matches, and I don't mind him sticking around for a while longer.

    Spoiler:
  • Stevo 22Stevo 22 Registered User
    edited March 2009
    noir_blood wrote: »
    Nonetheless, I still enjoy his matches, and I don't mind him sticking around for a while longer.

    I suppose. I just wish his legacy would have remained with him being one of the greatest wrestlers ever. His age is noticeable and sometimes distracting in his performance - it shows. His intensity and charisma is on and off with no measure of consistency. A lot of the time he just looks tired. This is obviously a matter of opinion but I would have preferred if he went out on top instead of fizzling out slowly. Shawn Michaels has become my 'Matrix Trilogy.'

    "It's do or die." "Hey, I've died twice."
  • ANTVGM64ANTVGM64 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    You know what I hate? When the undertaker does a running powerslam. If you have him up there, why not just hit the tombstone?


    Sorry, wrestling logic annoys me sometimes.

  • SkittlebrauSkittlebrau Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Wrestling logic is great. If you jump off of the top rope and land on the mat, that hurts like hell. If you jump off the top rope and land on another person, that doesn't hurt at all.

  • KurnDerakKurnDerak Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I both hate and love the logic that people are softer then the mat. If you miss any move, a standing leg drop for example, you nearly break your ass. If you hit it, you're perfectly fine. There are exceptions to this of course, such as the flying headbutt.

    Also the logic that dropping someone to the side off of your shoulder (FU) or picking someone up by their neck and dropping them on their back (choke slam) can be just as, if not more devistating then say a chair shot or a championship belt to the head... or getting driven through an announce table.

    On another note, I think what the WWE should do sometime is just have all of those storylines and characters that mysteriously disappeared come back out of the plot hole they fell into and try and take over the WWE. It would be confusing as hell, really absurd... most likely stupid... but I'd watch it.

  • Mad_Scientist_WorkingMad_Scientist_Working Registered User
    edited March 2009
    KurnDerak wrote: »
    I both hate and love the logic that people are softer then the mat. If you miss any move, a standing leg drop for example, you nearly break your ass. If you hit it, you're perfectly fine. There are exceptions to this of course, such as the flying headbutt.
    Well in their defense it isn't a trope that is delegated to wrestling. I know Eureka actually had an episode where Carter was saved by falling on top of a another body after falling off a bridge.

  • QuickSnapQuickSnap Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Kyougu wrote: »

    God damn man, that creeps me out a little bit. I mean, to hear him talk about the wrestlers that have died young, and what that looks like, and then to think about the fact that he probably (we don't know yet) died the same way...its creepy and its heart breaking and its tragic all at the same time.

    "A little bit esoteric. Just bare with him, he'll get it right eventually; or drink himself death. Which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, really."

    Satan is my motor gifting person.
  • JoeslopJoeslop Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I finally got around to watching the ECW show from my DVR.

    Why are the commentators so bad? Was it an off night or are they always like that?

    One of them said something to the effect of "If this were a video game he would be tapping A and B right now!" and "Speaking of video games, *guy whose name I forget* has on his Tetris shorts!"

    I mean, really?

  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Stevo 22 wrote: »
    noir_blood wrote: »
    Nonetheless, I still enjoy his matches, and I don't mind him sticking around for a while longer.

    I suppose. I just wish his legacy would have remained with him being one of the greatest wrestlers ever. His age is noticeable and sometimes distracting in his performance - it shows. His intensity and charisma is on and off with no measure of consistency. A lot of the time he just looks tired. This is obviously a matter of opinion but I would have preferred if he went out on top instead of fizzling out slowly. Shawn Michaels has become my 'Matrix Trilogy.'

    His age is noticable, especially when you look at his face. He's not the "Kid" anymore, but he still works harder and does the mic better than half the roster. It's a testament to just how good he was in the 90s.

    Watch his PPV matches from the winter - fall of 1996, starting with the Royal Rumble. I mean shit, he pulled a 4* match out of Sid at Survivor Series. That's incredible. The other noticable difference between Shawn and the other guys of mid 90s is that Shawn was already in the Attitude Era, 2 full years before it came around. His charisma, his look, his style, everything was a step ahead the entire roster. I'm going back to SS again, but watch that PPV in full. It's gimmicky, full of cheesy late 80s crap. The only two matches on that show that could fit into a show from 1998-2002 were Austin/Bret and Michaels/Sid. And it's no surprise that Austin was involved in one of them, but it's just an entirely different feeling to see Shawn and Sid work together than the gimmicky shit earlier in the show. It feels like a time machine.

    Just a quick rundown of 1996...
    Spoiler:


    At this point, Michaels and Taker are the only two guys left from their group. They're the relics of an era past (hell, Jericho should be attacking them about it too, not just the real old timers), but they're so good at what they do that they can fit in today's wrestling without missing a beat.

    Another problem is what you said before, the goofy rebel thing Shawn has been doing since DX started in late '97 is very worn out. But so is a lot of the roster right now. It could use a good shaking up....but just like Cena, the almighty dollar prevails. Shawn pushes merchandise as a face, and that's what the company truly wants in the end. The money.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Well the biggest problem with micheals is he is a multiple WWE champ, he's been just about every champ you can be in the WWE and he's at best a mid carder now. I can't think of the last time he's been a real title contender or had a good run with a strap. He's a merch pusher and thats about it.

  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    HBK overselling the Hogan match will be his greatest accomplishment ever

    because seriously, he was one of the few guys that could get away with that, and probably the only one with the balls to do it

  • astrobstrdastrobstrd So full of mercy... Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Is everyone still talking about the same Shawn Michaels I see every week? The guy that is consistently in the top feuds of the year and the best matches on Raw? Sure, his look and theme need an update, but if Flair can be the Nature Boy still, I don't see why Michaels can't be the Heartbreak Kid.

    I also really wish they would stop with the "surprise" DX reunions, where all they do is make dick jokes and shill old merchandise, but as long as Michaels is having feuds that are as high quality as his Jericho and JBL ones, I'm not really in a hurry to send him out to pasture.

  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    Does anyone actually call him Heartbreak Kid anymore? I thought he just became HBK, kinda like how like Imagine Games Network just became IGN. Except HBK is actually still relevant

  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    He's still announced as The Heartbreak Kid, Shawn Michaels.

  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    HBK is still one of the best pure workers in the company...and still puts on some of the best matches and promos. He's more than welcome on my TV screen.

    So ROH's first episode is this weekend on HDNet. Anyone else gonna be watching/ I'm pretty excited.

    iYBQTfcwSi2EW.jpg
  • redfield85redfield85 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Isn't today National Stone Cold Steve Austin Day?

    002_3458~WWE-Stone-Cold-Austin-3-16-Posters.jpg

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  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    I hope he shows up on Raw to confront Jericho.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    redfield85 wrote: »
    Isn't today National Stone Cold Steve Austin Day?

    002_3458~WWE-Stone-Cold-Austin-3-16-Posters.jpg

    Ahh austin if only the WWE could copy his schtick with someones whose knees still work.

  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Well the biggest problem with micheals is he is a multiple WWE champ, he's been just about every champ you can be in the WWE and he's at best a mid carder now. I can't think of the last time he's been a real title contender or had a good run with a strap. He's a merch pusher and thats about it.

    I don't think he's a midcarder at all. Yea, his JBL feud was midcard, but the one right before that, with Jericho was basically what pushed Raw forward for a good few months.

    He's one of those guys that doesn't need the belts.

    Spoiler:
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    noir_blood wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Well the biggest problem with micheals is he is a multiple WWE champ, he's been just about every champ you can be in the WWE and he's at best a mid carder now. I can't think of the last time he's been a real title contender or had a good run with a strap. He's a merch pusher and thats about it.

    I don't think he's a midcarder at all. Yea, his JBL feud was midcard, but the one right before that, with Jericho was basically what pushed Raw forward for a good few months.

    He's one of those guys that doesn't need the belts.

    Yeah he doesn't need the belt, but the longer he goes without a strap the less the younger crowd will think of him as anyone but a perrenial contender and not a winner. We know he's awesome but the WWE needs to remind people why they call him the show stopper.

  • LegacyLegacy SCP Of The Digital Frontier The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    I hope he shows up on Raw to confront Jericho.

    i figured he would, going by the way everythings been going and since theyre in texas.

    i totally forgot about todays date, however...

    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
This discussion has been closed.