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Do you believe in ghosts and other related phenomena?

JoeslopJoeslop Registered User regular
edited April 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
This was prompted by a dream I had this morning. The details are trivial (especially given the random nature of some dreams) but the gist of it is that someone I know had just died in a horrible fashion but I can't find their body. As I'm looking around, two clock radios in the room both start making that buzzing/static noise that occurs sometimes with incoming phone calls/text messages, and also similar to how the ghosts communicated in the movie White Noise. I realize that I don't have my cell phone on me and there isn't one in the immediate vicinity so I immediately assume that it's the person's ghost trying to contact me.

I wake up right after with a very distinct feeling of fear. I don't know if I woke up because of the fear or other reasons, but it got me thinking.

I've never personally seen a ghost, despite living in a city with a semi-famous ghost, however I have interacted with a few people that claim to have seen or even talked to ghosts. One such person was an older lady who used to drive my sister and I home from school; she was never one to lie or make up stories yet she claimed there was a ghost living in her attic (the ghost lived there before her) that she would talk to occasionally.

Stories about encountering ghosts or things of that nature are also encouraged.

Semi-related; when the movie version of Silent Hill came out (heavy fog plays into at least the first game, I haven't played the rest), that night, a lot of my city was covered in a very heavy fog. The best idea, of course, is to take the opportunity to visit the cemetery that was across the street from where we were. Despite being on a major road next to a shopping mall this cemetery manages to remain very dark. Nothing actually happened but just the coincidence of the fog was very creepy.

Joeslop on
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Posts

  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I like to fancy that there's something to people experiencing hyper-lucid phenomenon during a time which, by all known measures and accounts, they should be suffering from severe impairment or brain damage.

  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I don't believe in ghosts, but every now and then those primal instincts get to you. This is why I like owning a cat. Animals have better senses than we do in some cases and if there IS something out of the ordinary, they tend to notice before we do (not talking about ghosts or paranormal stuff here, again, they don't exist). But it's a useful reminder when you hear that bump in the night to be able to look over and see that cat staring at you like you're an idiot for worrying about the sounds of the house settling.

    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Joeslop wrote: »
    Joeslop wrote: »
    What's the explanation for people that claim to have physically seen/talked to/interacted with ghosts? Normally sane people not prone to lies or exaggerations having conversations with said apparitions?
    I think I'll be going with Sleep Paralysis on this one.

    And the ones that aren't sleeping or have been sleeping? Like the lady who used to drive me home; she didn't sleep in the attic.
    Since I don't know the specifics, allow me this little derail...

    Once upon a time there was a woman who was utterly convinced aliens had come to her and taken her unborn baby away. And then someone asked "were you actually pregnant at the time"? To which the answer, predictably, was "no".

    As for myself, I am frequently utterly convinced that there's some kind of demon standing right behind me ready to devour me at a moment's notice. I know it's not there, but since I know it's there I get terrified anyway.

    The point of all this, I guess, is to simply point out that brains are far from perfect and that "normally sane" doesn't mean you can't suffer from hallucinations or the like.

  • Manning'sEquationManning'sEquation Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    There is one God, and many angels. Fallen angels are called demons. Angels and demons can take any shape they wish. There is a hierarchy of angels biased on how powerful God created them. This is what I believe, no more and no less.

    One of my friends told me she didn't believe in ghosts; her reasoning was that any sufficiently advanced higher being wouldn't allow someone's soul to languish in between life and death like that.[/QUOTE]

    I will agree. It is heaven or hell for human souls. However there ARE angels and demons roaming the Earth right now. Demons do not equal human souls.

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The burden of proof is to prove that they exist. Until then i'm skeptical and willing to accept that some things do not have explanations that can easily be grasped.

    Aliens on the other hand. Sure, but I doubt we've been in contact with them in anyway.

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  • ResRes __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2009
    Demons do not equal human souls.

    For the purposes of this discussion, sure they do.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Joeslop wrote: »
    I've never personally seen a ghost, despite living in a city with a semi-famous ghost, however I have interacted with a few people that claim to have seen or even talked to ghosts. One such person was an older lady who used to drive my sister and I home from school; she was never one to lie or make up stories yet she claimed there was a ghost living in her attic (the ghost lived there before her) that she would talk to occasionally.

    There's a flash based ouija board on that site. When I asked it if ghosts were real, it said no. I think I trust it.


    Truthfully, I'm with the folks in here chalking this up to primal instincts. Many of us are really jumpy, and don't know how to interpret the things we feel.

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    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2009
    *shrug* As with zombies, I find them pretty damned unlikely. But if a zombie shows up at my door asking for brains I'm not going to try to tell it it doesn't exist and expect my skull to remain intact.

    DAMM
    Drunks Against Mad Mothers
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Joeslop wrote:
    There is one God, and many angels. Fallen angels are called demons. Angels and demons can take any shape they wish. There is a hierarchy of angels biased on how powerful God created them. This is what I believe, no more and no less.

    One of my friends told me she didn't believe in ghosts; her reasoning was that any sufficiently advanced higher being wouldn't allow someone's soul to languish in between life and death like that.

    I will agree. It is heaven or hell for human souls. However there ARE angels and demons roaming the Earth right now. Demons do not equal human souls.

    What are you, an asshole? Demons and Angels have to stay in their respective spheres of influence. Tempters and Guardians may get a pass occasionally, but they can do their work from the office 99% of the time. It is true that every fifth auto-worker is a Golem, though.



    And that one God had better be referring to Ahura-Mazda.

  • archonwarparchonwarp Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Joeslop wrote: »
    Nope.

    Paranormal phenomena are anything but - they're the effects of people misunderstanding various somewhat primal senses which are telling you the environment is somehow different. In our modern, safe world, these are pretty useless but they would've been great back in the day.

    Of note is that we have a limited susceptiblity to the effects of magnetic fields for example - we can't actually sense them, but we can feel the minute changes in the environment they cause. Haunted caves usually have magnetic rock surrounding them, amongst other things like the stereotypical cold breeze.

    We are very very good at detecting when an environment is not as we think it should be - i.e. a draft could imply something moving quietly out of sight. Of course today it means you need to buy some sealant.

    EDIT: Of note is that there is scientific evidence of a human magnetic sense with a more interesting summary here.

    What's the explanation for people that claim to have physically seen/talked to/interacted with ghosts? Normally sane people not prone to lies or exaggerations having conversations with said apparitions?

    *Edit* Supposedly DMT, or some very similar chemical is released from the pineal gland in the brain, but I don't have a valid source for that, so my entire post could be wrong

    Excessive DMT release, possibly caused by some type of trauma.

    It's thought to be the cause of sleep paralysis and hallucinations after waking. Important thing worth mentioning is that young children with little religious influence have near-death experiences and don't talk to dead people or see heaven. Instead, they hallucinate having conversations with their living parents or friends. It's speculated that there may be a big release of DMT from the pineal gland which causes these near death experiences.

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  • ObsObs __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2009
    There could be ghosts, but my theory is that they probably all stay at the exact spatial coordinates of where they died in the universe. So we never see them, unless they find a way to travel quickly.

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  • Inter_dInter_d Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    okay, think i'll ignore all the angels and demon crap since it's retarded and not based on any fact, and just say that I've never had an experience with aliens and ghosts. I refuse to believe it's real unless we have some actual proof and not just superstitious eyewitness accounts.

    Since I don't believe in an afterlife it would take an awful lot of convincing. I'm sorry i just refuse to believe that we all just happen to stick around after we die and our free to haunt wherever we're murdered/killed/died. if that was honestly the case than why the hell isn't the entire area surrounding the world trade center ripe with poltergeists?

    I do, however, believe that there are aliens out there but because i just think it's impossible that in an infinitely huge universe as ours that there's no other life in it but our own planet. maybe they've made contact in the past, i don't know but i doubt most of the people who claim they were abducted.

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    archonwarp wrote: »
    *Edit* Supposedly DMT, or some very similar chemical is released from the pineal gland in the brain, but I don't have a valid source for that, so my entire post could be wrong

    Excessive DMT release, possibly caused by some type of trauma.

    It's thought to be the cause of sleep paralysis and hallucinations after waking. Important thing worth mentioning is that young children with little religious influence have near-death experiences and don't talk to dead people or see heaven. Instead, they hallucinate having conversations with their living parents or friends. It's speculated that there may be a big release of DMT from the pineal gland which causes these near death experiences.
    The sheer number of ways that your brain is prepared to just fuck the shit out of you is something that never ceases to astound. I'm an annoying Scully type because it's just not that hard to trick the sensors. If I see a spooky ghost, I'm gonna assume that something's gone and fucked up in my brain, not that I'm a medium.

    Now, if the spirit world obeys laws that can be replicated I'd be interested. But no one seems to want to fund my Murder Lab of Horror.

  • IriahIriah Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ruzkin wrote: »
    I've seen a ghost. It was late at night, I was fully awake and in the presence of others. One other person saw it at the same time I did, while three people who were looking in the other direction all shivered, hunched and said "What the FUCK is that?" in the same way you would having felt an earthquake, or all experienced a simultaneous wave of nausea.

    I'd like for there to be a rational explanation, because I don't like the idea of ghosts. I don't like the paranormal. The paranormal is a silly load of bullshit for people who like reading tabloid newspapers about UFO's sighted over Kent.

    But I saw it, and as I saw it I felt it in my head and in my guts, the same as the three friends who were looking the other way. Then it was gone. So, please. Give me any scientific explanation, because I dearly want one.

    It was another 'you,' unstuck in time and appearing to yourself momentarily at an otherwise innocuous moment in your early history. The sensation of nausea was the violation of fourteen of the Ninety-Seven Principles Of Consciousness. In the coming months you should note your increasing stage-fright and paranoia as moments of your immediate future and past come unbidden to your mind, violating another three Principles and bending half a dozen more; observe also a burgeoning predilection for telekinesis, which is super useful for maintaining erections

  • CugelCugel Registered User
    edited April 2009
    As someone who's never seen a need nor reason to believe in a higher power, the supernatural is similarly ridiculous. While I can point two two events that pushed my ideas about the world in which I live, neither was truly so far out there as to make me think that there was anything supernatural about them.

    I do, however, fancifully dream that such were true. Life would be far more exciting with ghosts, demons, and monstrosities out of the Cthulhu mythos. And I wouldn't mind stumbling across Silent Hill one of these days.

    But alas, reality is dreadfully dull unless one makes an effort at adventure.

  • TaximesTaximes Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I think shows like Ghost Hunters do an excellent job of showing just why supernatural things likely don't exist. Some people record a bunch of nothing, imagine they hear or see something, and then show it to someone else with such casual acceptance of it being there that the other person is convinced it's there, too. The level of belief spirals out of control like a game of supernatural telephone, largely because they don't do anything with objectivity or skepticism. They just scour their data for anything that seems like it could possibly support their theory and then flaunt it while disregarding the rest. I've never seen anyone on that show go, "No, man. I just don't see anything." It's such an unbelievable lack of skepticism with complete disregard for the scientific method.

    Hell, I know people who do believe in ghosts, and even they hate Ghost Hunters. :P

    I am, however, unbelievably interested in the source of supernatural legends. Chances are, there's a good explanation for some of these myths that doesn't hinge on someone being crazy or making it up.

    For example, harlequin ichthyosis (which is so entirely NSFW and humanity that I will not even link to the Wikipedia page. This is the internet so you've probably seen it before, but if you haven't, just know that it causes the skin of the sufferer to be red and scaly from birth). It's so horrible even by today's standards that I can't imagine what people would have thought when it happened centuries ago. Everyone who witnessed it must have thought they were witnessing the birth of an honest-to-god demon. Obviously the baby wasn't a demon, but you can't exactly call the people crazy, either. In a case such as that, it's easy to see how the beliefs and rumors could spiral out of control.

  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited April 2009
    Saw a UFO once. As in unidentified flying object, not some damn flying saucer. Still wonder to this day what I saw. Or it wouldn't be unidentified, would it?

  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Cugel wrote: »
    As someone who's never seen a need nor reason to believe in a higher power, the supernatural is similarly ridiculous. While I can point two two events that pushed my ideas about the world in which I live, neither was truly so far out there as to make me think that there was anything supernatural about them.

    I do, however, fancifully dream that such were true. Life would be far more exciting with ghosts, demons, and monstrosities out of the Cthulhu mythos. And I wouldn't mind stumbling across Silent Hill one of these days.

    But alas, reality is dreadfully dull unless one makes an effort at adventure.
    Umm...things like silent hill are all well and good when they're safely in the PS2.

    If they were real though? Umm nothankyounevernevernotatallohpleaseno. I can do without fighting rapedemons from the innermost depths of mine/someone elses' id, or, if you believe certain interpretations of 3 (like I do)
    Spoiler:

    Especially when the only weapons I have are my shitty marksmanship skills and a lead pipe.

    I don't know if I believe in ghosts or not, honestly. It seems so farfetched, but perfectly sane, rational people claim to have experienced supernatural things, even when they admit it clashes with their own more rational worldview. Some strange stuff does go on in the world.

  • Ziac45Ziac45 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Taximes wrote: »
    I think shows like Ghost Hunters do an excellent job of showing just why supernatural things likely don't exist. Some people record a bunch of nothing, imagine they hear or see something, and then show it to someone else with such casual acceptance of it being there that the other person is convinced it's there, too. The level of belief spirals out of control like a game of supernatural telephone, largely because they don't do anything with objectivity or skepticism. They just scour their data for anything that seems like it could possibly support their theory and then flaunt it while disregarding the rest. I've never seen anyone on that show go, "No, man. I just don't see anything." It's such an unbelievable lack of skepticism with complete disregard for the scientific method.

    Hell, I know people who do believe in ghosts, and even they hate Ghost Hunters. :P

    I am, however, unbelievably interested in the source of supernatural legends. Chances are, there's a good explanation for some of these myths that doesn't hinge on someone being crazy or making it up.

    For example, harlequin ichthyosis (which is so entirely NSFW and humanity that I will not even link to the Wikipedia page. This is the internet so you've probably seen it before, but if you haven't, just know that it causes the skin of the sufferer to be red and scaly from birth). It's so horrible even by today's standards that I can't imagine what people would have thought when it happened centuries ago. Everyone who witnessed it must have thought they were witnessing the birth of an honest-to-god demon. Obviously the baby wasn't a demon, but you can't exactly call the people crazy, either. In a case such as that, it's easy to see how the beliefs and rumors could spiral out of control.


    Oh god, do not google image that. I am going to have nightmares for a month.

  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    Cugel wrote: »
    As someone who's never seen a need nor reason to believe in a higher power, the supernatural is similarly ridiculous. While I can point two two events that pushed my ideas about the world in which I live, neither was truly so far out there as to make me think that there was anything supernatural about them.

    I do, however, fancifully dream that such were true. Life would be far more exciting with ghosts, demons, and monstrosities out of the Cthulhu mythos. And I wouldn't mind stumbling across Silent Hill one of these days.

    But alas, reality is dreadfully dull unless one makes an effort at adventure.
    Umm...things like silent hill are all well and good when they're safely in the PS2.

    If they were real though? Umm nothankyounevernevernotatallohpleaseno. I can do without fighting rapedemons from the innermost depths of mine/someone elses' id, or, if you believe certain interpretations of 3 (like I do)
    Spoiler:

    Especially when the only weapons I have are my shitty marksmanship skills and a lead pipe.

    I dunno. That would at least be less boring than normal life. It usually seems that it wouldn't be hard to do better on improvisation than those games typically allow the player-character to, too.

    DAMM
    Drunks Against Mad Mothers
  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I dunno. That would at least be less boring than normal life. It usually seems that it wouldn't be hard to do better on improvisation than those games typically allow the player-character to, too.
    Keep in mind, though, that IRL if you get injured once you're pretty much fucked. I keep thinking about the little demon children in SH1 that carried knives and stabbed you in the thighs. In SH it wasn't a big deal, just guzzle a protein shake and you're good to go. If it was reality, though, you'd be crippled and would probably just pass out from blood loss before the gigantic cockroaches showed up and devoured your corpse.

  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    I dunno. That would at least be less boring than normal life. It usually seems that it wouldn't be hard to do better on improvisation than those games typically allow the player-character to, too.
    Keep in mind, though, that IRL if you get injured once you're pretty much fucked. I keep thinking about the little demon children in SH1 that carried knives and stabbed you in the thighs. In SH it wasn't a big deal, just guzzle a protein shake and you're good to go. If it was reality, though, you'd be crippled and would probably just pass out from blood loss before the gigantic cockroaches showed up and devoured your corpse.

    That is kept in mind. I'm also a bit more agile than the average semi. And I always remember wandering through a room in one of those games and seeing dozens of things that would make great clubs on the walls that I'm not allowed to use because they're a texture instead of a weapon.

    DAMM
    Drunks Against Mad Mothers
  • EchoEcho staring is caring Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited April 2009
    That is kept in mind. I'm also a bit more agile than the average semi.

    Can you turn and move at the same time?

    Possibly turn and move on a less than 20 foot radius?

  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    They fixed that in SH2 when you could get rid of the tank-style controls.

  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    That is kept in mind. I'm also a bit more agile than the average semi.

    Can you turn and move at the same time?

    Possibly turn and move on a less than 20 foot radius?

    Not only that, but I can climb on top of stuff. And throw desks at children. Throwing desks at children is in fact one of my greatest and most fun life-skills.

    DAMM
    Drunks Against Mad Mothers
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    That is kept in mind. I'm also a bit more agile than the average semi.

    Can you turn and move at the same time?

    Possibly turn and move on a less than 20 foot radius?

    Not only that, but I can climb on top of stuff. And throw desks at children. Throwing desks at children is in fact one of my greatest and most fun life-skills.

    Have a seat!

  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I will believe in ghosts when there is a well-documented, repeatable experiment to detect or produce them.

  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Kupi wrote: »
    I will believe in ghosts when there is a well-documented, repeatable experiment to detect or produce them.
    Well, since death is supposed to be the only way to produce ghosts, I'll happily settle for reliable, verifiable, accurate and repeatable detection.

  • PodlyPodly good moleman to youRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    yeah but what about aliens

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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Podly wrote: »
    yeah but what about aliens
    Aliens is easy, of course there are. In an infinite universe the odds that there's one sentient thing are pretty low. The odds of aliens that we can in any way converse/exchange with? That's mitigated by a lot more factors.

  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    While some form of alien life may exist, if it does it's probably at a very low level of development. I think most people don't realize how incredible it is that there's life on earth, let alone intelligent life (or even life as intelligent as, say, a dog or a cat). So, if an alien does exist we're probably talking about something on the cellular level.

    And I don't think I'll ever believe in UFOs/alien contact unless I directly experience it myself in a way I can't explain in any other way, including my own personal insanity. I mean, we can't even communicate all that well with chimps and for all intents and purposes they're identical to us on an evolutionary level. And yet somehow we're supposed to believe that aliens that evolved (somehow) on another planet/in another galaxy/whatever build ships and travel through the stars just like humans wish they could? I mean, hell, usually these "alien encounters" involve aliens that are functionally identical to humans - they communicate (in English, somehow), perform medical experiments, walk on two legs... I can't see how anybody with even a rudimentary grasp of biology or evolution could think of that as a plausible scenario.

  • archonwarparchonwarp Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    I mean, we can't even communicate all that well with chimps and for all intents and purposes they're identical to us on an evolutionary level. And yet somehow we're supposed to believe that aliens that evolved (somehow) on another planet/in another galaxy/whatever build ships and travel through the stars just like humans wish they could? I mean, hell, usually these "alien encounters" involve aliens that are functionally identical to humans - they communicate (in English, somehow), perform medical experiments, walk on two legs... I can't see how anybody with even a rudimentary grasp of biology or evolution could think of that as a plausible scenario.

    Not to nitpick, but I don't think the phrase "evolutionarily identical" really makes sense. Yeah, they're our closest primate relative still around, but we've got a good 1,500,000 years of evolution on our side.


    One of the things about bipedal anthro-aliens is that there aren't really too many other options that make sense. It wouldn't be practical for a large complex organism to have a lot of organs protected only by a cell membrane. There also aren't too many ways you can cause locomotion besides flapping appendages; I mean, how could you evolve a wheel ? Also, it's further proof that everything is made up by people who are experiencing problems wherein their brain plays tricks on them.

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  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Podly wrote: »
    yeah but what about aliens
    fuck that

    what about alien ghosts

    you fuckers never thought of that one, did ya

    HOW DO YOU FUCK UP BAGELS. YOU BOIL THE WATER. PUT IN THE NOODLES
  • EndomaticEndomatic Registered User
    edited April 2009
    I can't see how anybody with even a rudimentary grasp of biology or evolution could think of that as a plausible scenario.

    It's plausible of course, we exist. It's just so very unlikely.

    What about celebrity alien ghosts?!

  • PodlyPodly good moleman to youRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    MikeMan wrote: »
    Podly wrote: »
    yeah but what about aliens
    fuck that

    what about alien ghosts

    you fuckers never thought of that one, did ya

    MINDFUCK

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Well, this topic took a turn for the predictable.
    Spoiler:

    Another successful post, thanks to the power of Spacestar Ordering™!
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    one of my friends believes in ghosts

    she also believes that she is psychic, and that psychic powers are a matrilineal family gift.

    i think she's ridiculous.

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    archonwarp wrote: »
    Duffel wrote: »
    I mean, we can't even communicate all that well with chimps and for all intents and purposes they're identical to us on an evolutionary level. And yet somehow we're supposed to believe that aliens that evolved (somehow) on another planet/in another galaxy/whatever build ships and travel through the stars just like humans wish they could? I mean, hell, usually these "alien encounters" involve aliens that are functionally identical to humans - they communicate (in English, somehow), perform medical experiments, walk on two legs... I can't see how anybody with even a rudimentary grasp of biology or evolution could think of that as a plausible scenario.

    Not to nitpick, but I don't think the phrase "evolutionarily identical" really makes sense. Yeah, they're our closest primate relative still around, but we've got a good 1,500,000 years of evolution on our side.


    One of the things about bipedal anthro-aliens is that there aren't really too many other options that make sense. It wouldn't be practical for a large complex organism to have a lot of organs protected only by a cell membrane. There also aren't too many ways you can cause locomotion besides flapping appendages; I mean, how could you evolve a wheel ? Also, it's further proof that everything is made up by people who are experiencing problems wherein their brain plays tricks on them.

    This is a silly thing to say.

    We evolved eyes, neural systems, and brains - you think a wheel is going to be difficult? I mean there's already clearly evolved flagellar motors or whatever they're called, on the microscopic scale.

    Who even knows if another form of life, if it were even recognizable, would have something resembling DNA? I think evolution as a concept would broadly apply to any form of life, necesarily, but who knows how their reproduction and selection would function, and what it would produce, especially in alternate environments?

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • DuffelDuffel Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    We are not 1.5m years "more evolved" than chimps; chimps evolved to adapt to a different set of behaviors than humans. You're probably not too good at brachiating, but chimps are (although not as good as orangs).

    Also, there aren't too many ways for locomotion to take place on the land on earth with our gravity/atmosphere other than some form of appendage locomotion. Why wouldn't these hypothetical intelligent aliens be aquatic, for instance, or adapted to any other environment you could think of?

    And for all intents and purposes we are identical to chimps on a universal scale. We're omnivorous primates with opposable thumbs who can use tools, stereoscopic vision, and rely on social groups for survival. Compared to something like a scorpion or a squid, we are almost entirely identical to chimps. And we would by necessity be even closer to a scorpion or a squid than anything that came from another planet.

    EDIT: EM Beat me

  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    No, I don't believe in such things at all. I pretty well reject spirituality of any sort.

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