you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
bitching about the way people enjoy a game is unbecoming
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
But what about competent players with super high numbers?
It doesn't matter how good you are at avoiding raid damage, if you aren't outputting your share of the dps you're dead weight on the raid.
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
But what about competent players with super high numbers?
It doesn't matter how good you are at avoiding raid damage, if you aren't outputting your share of the dps you're dead weight on the raid.
If you can't meet your base output then you aren't a competent player. My brother the rogue for example: super well geared, yet not a competent player because he can't out dps a fly. And what the fuck does "your share of dps" mean?
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
from now on raid invites will be determined by your /hug statistics
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
But what about competent players with super high numbers?
It doesn't matter how good you are at avoiding raid damage, if you aren't outputting your share of the dps you're dead weight on the raid.
If you can't meet your base output then you aren't a competent player. My brother the rogue for example: super well geared, yet not a competent player because he can't out dps a fly. And what the fuck does "your share of dps" mean?
Is there any point in not using WF/WF then? Instead of WF/FT for LL.
I currently have the Glyph of WF and LL and will get SS.
WF/WF is great up until you start putting points into Maelstrom. After that, the spellpower bonus from FT gives a good DPS increase that scales very well with your gear. However, it can be a little mana-intensive until you get into some later-Outland/mid-Northrend gear, but hey, that's what Shamanistic Rage is for.
Glyph of Lava Lash sucks. 10% more onto an already "filler" ability isn't worth the slot, but the Stormstrike glyph is tits. SS boosts LB, LS and ES all at once, so an extra 8% onto all of those spells is a huge boost.
That third glyph slot is kind of iffy... Glyph of Earth Shock was going to be the end-all enhancement glyph, but they never got it to work correctly and now it's the lackluster Glyph of Shocking. Glyph of Feral Spirit is pretty neat, but it's only really used every three minutes for 40 seconds at a time. I've got Glyph of Lightning Shield, but I suppose Glyph of FT would be OK, too... a 2% more chance to proc Elemental Devastation ain't that bad.
I havent run sims to check, but I'd wager that SS, WF, and FT glyphs are the best. Not only is it more Elemental Devastation, but with so much of enhancement damage coming from spells now, I think it's have a pretty profound effect. Maybe I'll actually break out a simulator.
also - are you sure that SS over MW-LB is better? I know when I ran sims a few months ago it was (marginally) better to have LB prioritized. However this was before SS became mana regen, and I might've not even had maxed out Static Shock? I can't remember.
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
But what about competent players with super high numbers?
It doesn't matter how good you are at avoiding raid damage, if you aren't outputting your share of the dps you're dead weight on the raid.
If you can't meet your base output then you aren't a competent player. My brother the rogue for example: super well geared, yet not a competent player because he can't out dps a fly. And what the fuck does "your share of dps" mean?
Auto Shot/Steady Shot hurrrrrr.
no really? how exactly does one quantify someone doing "enough" dps. "More than the tank" works as a pretty good benchmark. But beyond that there is so much disparity by class, spec and gear that without being some sort of max dps purist asshole it's almost impossible to say where one player's dps should be.
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
Since when did they become mutually exclusive?
And doesn't "competent" involve knowing how to play your class and how to best work the numbers to your advantage?
Is there any point in not using WF/WF then? Instead of WF/FT for LL.
I currently have the Glyph of WF and LL and will get SS.
WF/WF is great up until you start putting points into Maelstrom. After that, the spellpower bonus from FT gives a good DPS increase that scales very well with your gear. However, it can be a little mana-intensive until you get into some later-Outland/mid-Northrend gear, but hey, that's what Shamanistic Rage is for.
Glyph of Lava Lash sucks. 10% more onto an already "filler" ability isn't worth the slot, but the Stormstrike glyph is tits. SS boosts LB, LS and ES all at once, so an extra 8% onto all of those spells is a huge boost.
That third glyph slot is kind of iffy... Glyph of Earth Shock was going to be the end-all enhancement glyph, but they never got it to work correctly and now it's the lackluster Glyph of Shocking. Glyph of Feral Spirit is pretty neat, but it's only really used every three minutes for 40 seconds at a time. I've got Glyph of Lightning Shield, but I suppose Glyph of FT would be OK, too... a 2% more chance to proc Elemental Devastation ain't that bad.
I havent run sims to check, but I'd wager that SS, WF, and FT glyphs are the best. Not only is it more Elemental Devastation, but with so much of enhancement damage coming from spells now, I think it's have a pretty profound effect. Maybe I'll actually break out a simulator.
also - are you sure that SS over MW-LB is better? I know when I ran sims a few months ago it was (marginally) better to have LB prioritized. However this was before SS became mana regen, and I might've not even had maxed out Static Shock? I can't remember.
Yeah man--it's 28% more damage. LB against a target with the SS debuff will always do more damage than LB on a target without. Plus, your subsequent ES will do 28% more damage, too... it's pretty much god's law that you want that SS debuff on your target at all times, hence making it top priority.
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
I care because being top DPS makes me a stallion with my wife
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
Since when did they become mutually exclusive?
And doesn't "competent" involve knowing how to play your class and how to best work the numbers to your advantage?
to some extent yes. In my mind a competent player is one who knows their class well enough to use the right ability at the right time (i.e. not using aoe on a single regular type mob), doesn't stand in fire (or move when flame wreath is cast) and is respectful (to an extent) of their group
so by that:
incompetent player: someone running around single targeting packs of mobs and/or dying every single time because they like to dps while standing on top of the tank and then cussing out the healers for not saving them
competent player: attacks groups with almost the right ability, stands in the right place and is responsive to people
super player: always on top of attacks with (de)buffs always up, anticipates where to stand so good that they are marked with an icon to help others move, kindly offers help to others without telling them how to play [and has fish feasts for all]
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GrathI'm a much happier person these daysRegistered User, ClubPAregular
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
I care because being top DPS makes me a stallion with my wife
I hear if you're top DPS wives will invite their very attractive friends over to reward you for a successful raid
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
I kind of enjoy the theorycrafting a bit. 30 minutes of reading about your class and game mechanics goes a hell of a long way.
Some enjoy it more, and write simulators and other stuff, that may be "too much" but what's the harm?
Some do it too little and just faceroll the keyboard to DPS, they're more or less dead weight in your raid/group.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with theorycrafting or enjoying the numbers of the game. I'm saying it's wrong to hold numbers against people when they're good players.
Is there any point in not using WF/WF then? Instead of WF/FT for LL.
I currently have the Glyph of WF and LL and will get SS.
WF/WF is great up until you start putting points into Maelstrom. After that, the spellpower bonus from FT gives a good DPS increase that scales very well with your gear. However, it can be a little mana-intensive until you get into some later-Outland/mid-Northrend gear, but hey, that's what Shamanistic Rage is for.
Glyph of Lava Lash sucks. 10% more onto an already "filler" ability isn't worth the slot, but the Stormstrike glyph is tits. SS boosts LB, LS and ES all at once, so an extra 8% onto all of those spells is a huge boost.
That third glyph slot is kind of iffy... Glyph of Earth Shock was going to be the end-all enhancement glyph, but they never got it to work correctly and now it's the lackluster Glyph of Shocking. Glyph of Feral Spirit is pretty neat, but it's only really used every three minutes for 40 seconds at a time. I've got Glyph of Lightning Shield, but I suppose Glyph of FT would be OK, too... a 2% more chance to proc Elemental Devastation ain't that bad.
I havent run sims to check, but I'd wager that SS, WF, and FT glyphs are the best. Not only is it more Elemental Devastation, but with so much of enhancement damage coming from spells now, I think it's have a pretty profound effect. Maybe I'll actually break out a simulator.
also - are you sure that SS over MW-LB is better? I know when I ran sims a few months ago it was (marginally) better to have LB prioritized. However this was before SS became mana regen, and I might've not even had maxed out Static Shock? I can't remember.
Yeah man--it's 28% more damage. LB against a target with the SS debuff will always do more damage than LB on a target without. Plus, your subsequent ES will do 28% more damage, too... it's pretty much god's law that you want that SS debuff on your target at all times, hence making it top priority.
This is wrong, because every second that you're not using that 5 stack, you're wasting more potential charges, therefore you're losing more lightning bolts overall. SS is the next priority for the reasons you explained, but it doesn't take priority over MWLB.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with theorycrafting or enjoying the numbers of the game. I'm saying it's wrong to hold numbers against people when they're good players.
Here is my stance on holding numbers against people.
Are we having trouble killing a boss y/n
if yes is the problem related to not being fast enough (enrage timers, dps races etc)
if yes Look at the lowest person and check their gear, is it shit? y/n
if no suggest they read up on how to increase their dps.
I typically am not going to hold it against somebody if I'm pulling ~5k dps and they are pulling ~4500dps
If I'm pulling ~5k dps and they are pulling ~2k dps then I might make a few suggestions.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with theorycrafting or enjoying the numbers of the game. I'm saying it's wrong to hold numbers against people when they're good players.
Here is my stance on holding numbers against people.
Are we having trouble killing a boss y/n
if yes is the problem related to not being fast enough (enrage timers, dps races etc)
if yes Look at the lowest person and check their gear, is it shit? y/n
if no suggest they read up on how to increase their dps.
I typically am not going to hold it against somebody if I'm pulling ~5k dps and they are pulling ~4500dps
If I'm pulling ~5k dps and they are pulling ~2k dps then I might make a few suggestions.
And that's totally reasonable. My problem is people who take the same list and reverse it.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with theorycrafting or enjoying the numbers of the game. I'm saying it's wrong to hold numbers against people when they're good players.
Here is my stance on holding numbers against people.
Are we having trouble killing a boss y/n
if yes is the problem related to not being fast enough (enrage timers, dps races etc)
if yes Look at the lowest person and check their gear, is it shit? y/n
if no suggest they read up on how to increase their dps.
I typically am not going to hold it against somebody if I'm pulling ~5k dps and they are pulling ~4500dps
If I'm pulling ~5k dps and they are pulling ~2k dps then I might make a few suggestions.
And that's totally reasonable. My problem is people who take the same list and reverse it.
Is there any point in not using WF/WF then? Instead of WF/FT for LL.
I currently have the Glyph of WF and LL and will get SS.
WF/WF is great up until you start putting points into Maelstrom. After that, the spellpower bonus from FT gives a good DPS increase that scales very well with your gear. However, it can be a little mana-intensive until you get into some later-Outland/mid-Northrend gear, but hey, that's what Shamanistic Rage is for.
Glyph of Lava Lash sucks. 10% more onto an already "filler" ability isn't worth the slot, but the Stormstrike glyph is tits. SS boosts LB, LS and ES all at once, so an extra 8% onto all of those spells is a huge boost.
That third glyph slot is kind of iffy... Glyph of Earth Shock was going to be the end-all enhancement glyph, but they never got it to work correctly and now it's the lackluster Glyph of Shocking. Glyph of Feral Spirit is pretty neat, but it's only really used every three minutes for 40 seconds at a time. I've got Glyph of Lightning Shield, but I suppose Glyph of FT would be OK, too... a 2% more chance to proc Elemental Devastation ain't that bad.
I havent run sims to check, but I'd wager that SS, WF, and FT glyphs are the best. Not only is it more Elemental Devastation, but with so much of enhancement damage coming from spells now, I think it's have a pretty profound effect. Maybe I'll actually break out a simulator.
also - are you sure that SS over MW-LB is better? I know when I ran sims a few months ago it was (marginally) better to have LB prioritized. However this was before SS became mana regen, and I might've not even had maxed out Static Shock? I can't remember.
Yeah man--it's 28% more damage. LB against a target with the SS debuff will always do more damage than LB on a target without. Plus, your subsequent ES will do 28% more damage, too... it's pretty much god's law that you want that SS debuff on your target at all times, hence making it top priority.
This is wrong, because every second that you're not using that 5 stack, you're wasting more potential charges, therefore you're losing more lightning bolts overall. SS is the next priority for the reasons you explained, but it doesn't take priority over MWLB.
I should clarify that the SS debuff takes priority on the rotation--since the debuff lasts for 12 seconds and the cooldown lasts 8, there will be plenty of times where you'll skip it in favor of LB.
Is there any point in not using WF/WF then? Instead of WF/FT for LL.
I currently have the Glyph of WF and LL and will get SS.
WF/WF is great up until you start putting points into Maelstrom. After that, the spellpower bonus from FT gives a good DPS increase that scales very well with your gear. However, it can be a little mana-intensive until you get into some later-Outland/mid-Northrend gear, but hey, that's what Shamanistic Rage is for.
Glyph of Lava Lash sucks. 10% more onto an already "filler" ability isn't worth the slot, but the Stormstrike glyph is tits. SS boosts LB, LS and ES all at once, so an extra 8% onto all of those spells is a huge boost.
That third glyph slot is kind of iffy... Glyph of Earth Shock was going to be the end-all enhancement glyph, but they never got it to work correctly and now it's the lackluster Glyph of Shocking. Glyph of Feral Spirit is pretty neat, but it's only really used every three minutes for 40 seconds at a time. I've got Glyph of Lightning Shield, but I suppose Glyph of FT would be OK, too... a 2% more chance to proc Elemental Devastation ain't that bad.
I havent run sims to check, but I'd wager that SS, WF, and FT glyphs are the best. Not only is it more Elemental Devastation, but with so much of enhancement damage coming from spells now, I think it's have a pretty profound effect. Maybe I'll actually break out a simulator.
also - are you sure that SS over MW-LB is better? I know when I ran sims a few months ago it was (marginally) better to have LB prioritized. However this was before SS became mana regen, and I might've not even had maxed out Static Shock? I can't remember.
Yeah man--it's 28% more damage. LB against a target with the SS debuff will always do more damage than LB on a target without. Plus, your subsequent ES will do 28% more damage, too... it's pretty much god's law that you want that SS debuff on your target at all times, hence making it top priority.
This is wrong, because every second that you're not using that 5 stack, you're wasting more potential charges, therefore you're losing more lightning bolts overall. SS is the next priority for the reasons you explained, but it doesn't take priority over MWLB.
That's been my rationale too. One other thing is that SS is what, 8s cooldown? That's 4 charges every 8 seconds. Your reason for throwing SS before MWLB is to make sure the charges are up, but realistically, you get 1 ES, maybe 1 LS proc, and maybe a MWLB every 8 seconds, so even being generous you don't usually run out of SS procs anyway.
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
no really? how exactly does one quantify someone doing "enough" dps. "More than the tank" works as a pretty good benchmark. But beyond that there is so much disparity by class, spec and gear that without being some sort of max dps purist asshole it's almost impossible to say where one player's dps should be.
"Above the tank" is a pretty shitty benchmark.
At least if you want to do anything other than Naxx and Sartharion with no friends.
It's pretty easy to tell where a pure DPS class should be most of the time.
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
you guys seriously care waaaay too much about your min/max numbers. Like way too much. Competent players are much more important than super high numbers. And I don't fucking care if you want to bitch me out for saying that, but it's true.
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
o_O
I dunno maybe my reading is being selective. I just see in this thread a lot of: ulduar ulduar, not enough dps, I want to go, can't go, go to naxx...
Posts
and seriously, when did you start caring so much, and how long until you stop?
But what about competent players with super high numbers?
It doesn't matter how good you are at avoiding raid damage, if you aren't outputting your share of the dps you're dead weight on the raid.
it's one thing to enjoy the math.
it's quite another to hold the math against people.
I'm really getting the feeling that people are caring too much about each other numbers and not enough about each other.
If you can't meet your base output then you aren't a competent player. My brother the rogue for example: super well geared, yet not a competent player because he can't out dps a fly. And what the fuck does "your share of dps" mean?
fuck you LD, we all know you run wowhugglider
meissnerd will you
will you turn me into a boomkin tonight
Auto Shot/Steady Shot hurrrrrr.
I havent run sims to check, but I'd wager that SS, WF, and FT glyphs are the best. Not only is it more Elemental Devastation, but with so much of enhancement damage coming from spells now, I think it's have a pretty profound effect. Maybe I'll actually break out a simulator.
also - are you sure that SS over MW-LB is better? I know when I ran sims a few months ago it was (marginally) better to have LB prioritized. However this was before SS became mana regen, and I might've not even had maxed out Static Shock? I can't remember.
yesss i will
you've made me the happiest druid in the world!
no really? how exactly does one quantify someone doing "enough" dps. "More than the tank" works as a pretty good benchmark. But beyond that there is so much disparity by class, spec and gear that without being some sort of max dps purist asshole it's almost impossible to say where one player's dps should be.
Since when did they become mutually exclusive?
And doesn't "competent" involve knowing how to play your class and how to best work the numbers to your advantage?
to some extent yes. In my mind a competent player is one who knows their class well enough to use the right ability at the right time (i.e. not using aoe on a single regular type mob), doesn't stand in fire (or move when flame wreath is cast) and is respectful (to an extent) of their group
so by that:
incompetent player: someone running around single targeting packs of mobs and/or dying every single time because they like to dps while standing on top of the tank and then cussing out the healers for not saving them
competent player: attacks groups with almost the right ability, stands in the right place and is responsive to people
super player: always on top of attacks with (de)buffs always up, anticipates where to stand so good that they are marked with an icon to help others move, kindly offers help to others without telling them how to play [and has fish feasts for all]
I kind of enjoy the theorycrafting a bit. 30 minutes of reading about your class and game mechanics goes a hell of a long way.
Some enjoy it more, and write simulators and other stuff, that may be "too much" but what's the harm?
Some do it too little and just faceroll the keyboard to DPS, they're more or less dead weight in your raid/group.
Crafty's Legendary Pole
http://www.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=43651
This is wrong, because every second that you're not using that 5 stack, you're wasting more potential charges, therefore you're losing more lightning bolts overall. SS is the next priority for the reasons you explained, but it doesn't take priority over MWLB.
Here is my stance on holding numbers against people.
Are we having trouble killing a boss y/n
if yes is the problem related to not being fast enough (enrage timers, dps races etc)
if yes Look at the lowest person and check their gear, is it shit? y/n
if no suggest they read up on how to increase their dps.
I typically am not going to hold it against somebody if I'm pulling ~5k dps and they are pulling ~4500dps
If I'm pulling ~5k dps and they are pulling ~2k dps then I might make a few suggestions.
And that's totally reasonable. My problem is people who take the same list and reverse it.
And who's doing this?
That's been my rationale too. One other thing is that SS is what, 8s cooldown? That's 4 charges every 8 seconds. Your reason for throwing SS before MWLB is to make sure the charges are up, but realistically, you get 1 ES, maybe 1 LS proc, and maybe a MWLB every 8 seconds, so even being generous you don't usually run out of SS procs anyway.
"Above the tank" is a pretty shitty benchmark.
At least if you want to do anything other than Naxx and Sartharion with no friends.
It's pretty easy to tell where a pure DPS class should be most of the time.
Epix 2k-3k
Legendaries: you won the game so stand around IF, no dps required
3k in epixxxxx ...what? Is that like...an elemental shaman?
o_O
I would think a warrior wielding a thunderfury and sulfuras (titan's grip can accommodate that right?) would disagree.
I dunno maybe my reading is being selective. I just see in this thread a lot of: ulduar ulduar, not enough dps, I want to go, can't go, go to naxx...
needs more espnicorns
that sounds pretty useless
I'm sorry for your loss