Old thread is here. New thread, commence! (Thanks to Adda and Carbonfire for the title.) ----- DEMON'S SOULS [PS3] (From Software, 2009, ARPG, 1-4 player) ----- Time for the faithful to throw their hands in the air and praise Atlus' name for dragging another niche release kicking and screaming out of Japan. (Unless you *cough*already imported it*cough*. Not that I'd know anything about that. Oh no.) So... how does a slow, lonely, epic third-person action RPG developed in Japan with dark medieval fantasy aesthetics, the freakiest multiplayer going and a learning curve that'll rip your guts out grab you? You like Roguelikes? You like Monster Hunter? Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer, maybe? ICO? Shadow of the Colossus? You like grim, empty, blasted landscapes, crumbling ruins and shadowy holes in the ground where things might (make that will) jump out and kill you in horrible, horrible ways the second your concentration wavers? Perhaps you should play Demon's Souls. Recent edits: Tidied up and re-written for the second thread. ----- Linkage! (YouTube it, read reviews, wiki it) Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler Reviews, FAQs, guides, general information: Demon's Souls can be found at Metacritic (yes, yes, I know) here. Selected reviews from more reliable/entertaining sources across teh intertubes: Gamespot's review is actually pretty good. A well deserved 9/10! Eurogamer reviewed the Asian import version and loved it. Another 9/10! RPGFan are all over it! I've never heard of One Last Continue, but they like it too! Here's Atlus' official wiki, or alternatively here's the unofficial wiki. YouTube! One billion hits a day, right? Atlus have helpfully placed several videos of Demon's Souls on their YouTube channel, which can be found here. This is Atlus' US trailer. The original CG teaser/attract sequence. The 10-minute Japanese extended trailer. (Shows most of the above, plus tutorial walkthrough etc. - CONTAINS SPOILERS) The second boss, world one. (CONTAINS SPOILERS) Some two-player co-op on world three, stage two. (CONTAINS SPOILERS) ----- Notes which may be of interest if you've just started playing! (Patch notes, multiplayer, PSN nicks, etc.) Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler Multiplayer! 1) The US servers are completely different to the Asian servers, unfortunately - Atlus supposedly don't want mismatched PvP between experienced players and terrified, scurrying nooblets. If you want to play with a friend you will both need the same copy of the game - both US, both Asian, both Korean or whatever. 2) This game does not contain voice chat, text chat, a party system or any other such thing! If you want to co-op with a friend, you'll need to arrange some means of communication outside of the game to co-ordinate one person dropping his blue stone and the other person picking it up before anyone else does. That's just the way it is, people... you know you don't want the WoW chat channel in here. ----- World tendency! (If you've just started playing, don't worry too much about this straight away) If you're trying to influence world tendency for fun times and unique weapons and all, pay attention! The latest patch has a known bug in online play where, if you save and quit while in the Nexus, this will reset every world to Neutral. No Satsuki/Miralda/Doran/Primeval Demons et al for you! So beware, whether or not From meant it to work this way. ----- Random stuff! 1) Why yes, yes you can kill the tutorial boss. SPOILERS! 2) And a heads up which may possibly be of use to someone: sadly, Demon's Souls uses a protected save file. No transferring from system to system! As I found out with my first character - 50 hours' playtime down the can. Oh, well. Least I saw the ending first. ----- How I can has my own copy? (How can I buy the game? Which version do I want? Where do I buy it?) Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler Currently no publisher has signed Demon's Souls up for a European release. Awww! But remember - the PS3 is region-free! Thanks, Sony! You may need the right TV to play NTSC software on a PAL PS3, but any of these editions should otherwise run fine on any model of PS3. Atlus' US release of Demon's Souls comes in Deluxe or Regular versions. I'm not too hot on American online retailers, but you can order the Deluxe from Amazon here, or the Regular edition here. If you must import for whatever reason (though, like, you should totally show Atlus how awesome they are and buy their version, and stuff): The Asian and Korean versions are fully, I repeat, fully in English apart from the manual. Voices, menus, subtitles, the works. Asian version even has a little quick reference sheet that's entirely in English! Order the Asian version on YesAsia here. Order the Asian version on PlayAsia here. Or order the Asian version on NCSX here. ----- FAQ (A long and rambling Q&A I wrote when the import came out to try and explain what Demon's Souls was. Tidied up and expanded a little.) Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler Q: So what is Demon's Souls? From the wiki: "Demon's Souls is the latest Role Playing Game created by the famed niche Japanese development team "From Software," creators of such franchises as Armored Core, Tenchu, Otogi and Chromehounds, and is published by Sony Computer Entertainment. Created to be the spiritual successor to the infamous King's Field franchise also created by From Software, Demon's Souls brings hardcore RPG action to the PlayStation 3." Alternatively: like it says at the top of the page, it's a third-person action RPG. Create a character, view them from a chase cam, run around fantasy landscapes a-hackin' an' a slashin' beasties so's NUMBERS GO UP and you get phat lewts and you can do it all over again to even stronger things. And so on. Q: But there's, like, a million of these things out there. Diablo, for one. Plus God knows how many freeware bits and pieces. Why should I go for this? A: Well... because it marries stunning visuals a la ICO or Shadow of the Colossus with balls-out rock-hard old-school gameplay. Because it's atmospheric like you've never seen - bleak, dark, unremittingly grim. Because it serves up beautifully refined classic gameplay mechanics with some surprisingly fresh ones on the side. Because it allows for a fair mix of different playing styles and gives you a fair amount of scope to tailor your character. Because it has a fairly decent story, if you like that sort of thing, with some jaw-dropping cutscenes along the way. Because it has a ton of neat shit you can collect and hoard like the crazed packrat you are. Sound good? Oh, yes, and it has bosses that are a hundred feet tall. Q: Okay, starting to get interested, but... details! Details! A: Okay. York notes version of the story, such as it is; the ruler of the kingdom of Boletaria, King Allant, got tempted by the whisperings of the Old One, the big ol' demon sealed away many years before by the Monumentals. The Monumentals being Ye Olde Mystic Order who saw the world was going haywire and mankind was abusing the power of the sorcerous arts and thought they'd lock all things mythical underground and hope people forgot about them. One convenient lunatic monarch later, the Old One's stirring in his prison, magic is free again, demons are on the loose and a colourless fog has sealed Boletaria away from the outside world... except for the heroes who wander in looking for lewts and magical weaponry with attack bonuses like a jackpot in Vegas. The latest of these poor brave idiots, of course, being you! The gameworld, once you've cleared the tutorial, comprises a hub - the Nexus - and five surrounding worlds (different parts of the kingdom). Each world is divided into several stages. Once you clear the boss in world one, stage one, you can (mostly) pick and choose where you want to head next. Four stages in world one, three in worlds two through five. Sixteen bosses, give or take. There's a boss for every stage - a more powerful sub-boss at the end of worlds two through five, and the final boss of the game at the end of world one. You make your way through the stage, you kill everything in your path, you solve a couple of very mild environmental puzzles, you get to the boss, you kill him. Rinse, repeat, the end. Only it doesn't work like that because this game is hard. You will die. A lot. You button-mash, you die. You rush in, you die. You stop concentrating, you die. You meet any boss first time... yeah, you see where I'm going with this. Combat is slow and methodical, at least for most players, to begin with. Light slash, heavy slash, block, parry, riposte. It's a matter of keeping your guard up, waiting for an opening and stabstabstabstabstab or if you can handle it, breaking your enemy's guard and landing a hit while he's staggering. Fluff your moves - mis-time them, misjudge your range or whatever - and it'll hurt. You have three gauges, health, mana and stamina, and the stamina bar Is Your God. Everything uses stamina, attacks, blocks, dodges, sprinting - doesn't matter how effective they are. Run out of stamina and you can't do anything. You die through button-mashing because none of your blows land properly and your stamina bar's gone and the enemy won't stop hitting you and you can't run away and aaaaaggggggghhhhhh *splat*. Dead. Only that's where the game really gets started. In Demon's Souls you can be in one of two states - your regular body (physical form) or your soul (spirit form). Take a fatal hit in your physical body, you resurrect in spirit form. You can't ever really "die". Each world has several checkpoints - one at the start, one after you've defeated each major boss. Every time you go down, you resurrect at the last checkpoint you reached. You get back to regular form by using a particular item or by defeating any boss. This ties in with the difficulty because on the one hand, if you die, you're kicked all the way back to the beginning of the level - Q: Oh hell no. A: Wait! Thing is, Demon's Souls doesn't do random levels. There are shortcuts everywhere you can open up permanently, so with careful play and a good memory for detail, in the end you can race through a stage straight to whatever boss you're currently stuck on. Plus, unlike your classic Roguelike model, Demon's Souls does not take away whatever items you're carrying. Q: Say what? But how exactly is that a challenge? A: Well, see - the one thing the game does take away... ...is your monies. Or what passes for monies. There's no gold. You can't sell any surplus items you pick up. When you kill an enemy, you drain its Mystical Glowing Green Sparklies - its "souls", if you'd rather - and this is what every vendor in the game accepts in lieu of the readies. Including - and this is the challenge - the NPC who levels you up. So you die (regular or soul form) and you lose every single soul you've collected up to that point. You get one chance, one chance, to pick them back up: if you can get back to the spot you died without being wiped out again, you can pick them up... but die again before reaching that point and they're gone for good. Keep dying over and over and losing everything you're grinding for and you will not get anything out of it. It is an insanely vicious case of risk versus reward: should you turn back now, or keep going? If you die will you be able to get this far through the stage again? And remember, you will die. A lot. The basic enemies on several stages can paste you in a couple of swings, there's catwalks over bottomless pits all over the place, stages in near pitch darkness, traps that knock off most of your health, entire areas that poison you... And bosses that are a hundred feet tall. Don't forget them. Q: And I have to do this all on my own? A: Sort of! This is the other surprisingly interesting thing/cool new idea Demon's Souls has going for it. It's primarily a single-player game: you can get through the whole thing offline if you're that dedicated (or just plain badass). Multiplayer isn't compulsory. But... Q: Multiplayer? A: Damn straight. Even if you're hooked up to PSN, by default you don't play with other people per se. But you see them - people doing the same levels, just in their own little instanced worlds, if you like. White ghosts running past you, swinging at nothing, that sort of thing. Plus whenever any player dies, they leave a bloodstain. A gory little Post-It, so to speak. Touch another player's bloodstain and you'll see a replay of the last few seconds before they snuffed it. Sometimes funny, sometimes creepy, sometimes a vital heads-up there's something around the next corner that got him. Q: Yeah, reeeal helpful. A: We're not done. There are two main sides to multiplayer. Co-op, for starters. Any player in regular physical form can summon players in spirit form who've tagged themselves as ready to co-op. Can't crack a stage, can't take down a boss? Drag some randoms in and team up for massive damage. Any co-op players in spirit form who successfully take down a boss get revived in physical form, too. But there's also PvP. There's another item players stuck in soul form can use which registers them as wanting some PK action. Anyone wandering around in physical form can have their game forcibly invaded - the other player incarnates as a "black phantom", their goal being to kill the host to get their body back as a reward. Don't like the sound of that? Tough - there's no escaping - victory, death or suicide are pretty much your only choices. Or disconnecting. But no-one likes a crybaby. Q: Is there more? A: Oh Christ yes. There's the world tendency and character tendency system, where by doing Certain Things you can switch either the levels' moral compass or your own to good or evil. This opens up new areas, allows you to meet new NPCs (and possibly kill them!), pick up new weapons, spawns new enemies... it is possible to see every secret the game has to offer in one run, but a lot of people won't. There's the crafting system, if you're into farming for drops... weapons are beefed up with rare minerals you collect throughout the levels and from the enemies, and getting every trophy involves getting the maximum upgrade for every single type of weapon and armour in the game. Which will take you multiple playthroughs, should you feel so inclined. There's the New Game+ system, where once you've beaten it the whole ghastly merryground starts all over again with everything you've collected, only the enemies get even tougher. But... ...okay, I guess that's more than enough. It's out, it's made it to the US, we all know the score by now... those bosses won't finish themselves off. Get to it!

I should be finishing my homework so I can play instead of reading the forums. What's the best stones to upgrade my swords with if I'm playing a magic/dex using character?

Ugh, lost probably a total of about 50k souls last night between trying to take out 4-1 and then going through 2-1 and 2-2. Mostly 2-2 since after I finally *did* beat 4-1 with all my accumulated Souls I had something like 68k... that was pretty nice. Anyhow, fuck Flamelurker. I'm ranged with my Royal but I just can't really get space from him, he leaps on me from everywhere and then I can't heal. I only tried him twice, but my god the 2-2 level itself is just annoying as fuck.

Right at the end of the other thread, there was some discussion about Black Phantoms. Anyway, I'd like to hear some of your horror/success stories both as an invader and invadee. I'll start with my very first success as a BP. It was 4-1. The guy and his Blue Phantom friend were waiting for me when I came up the stairs. After a brief scuffle, I realized I couldn't take them down head-on so I ran away. Luckily, they hadn't beaten that fat, grey demon in the courtyard yet (forgot his name) so I ran past him and went into the tunnels to double back and get the drop on them. It ended up working out better than I could have imagined as they both ran right right past the doorway I was hiding in without even a glance my way. I managed to get lucky and get fatal backstabs on both of them while they were looking at the scenery or something, totally oblivious that I was taking them out. One of the most satisfying experiences I've gotten from DS yet. That's mine. Let's hear yours.

Anyhow, fuck Flamelurker. I'm ranged with my Royal but I just can't really get space from him, he leaps on me from everywhere and then I can't heal. I only tried him twice, but my god the 2-2 level itself is just annoying as fuck. Turn right at the start and drop down the mineshaft in stages, it's much faster.

Right at the end of the other thread, there was some discussion about Black Phantoms. Anyway, I'd like to hear some of your horror/success stories both as an invader and invadee. I'll start with my very first success as a BP. It was 4-1. The guy and his Blue Phantom friend were waiting for me when I came up the stairs. After a brief scuffle, I realized I couldn't take them down head-on so I ran away. Luckily, they hadn't beaten that fat, grey demon in the courtyard yet (forgot his name) so I ran past him and went into the tunnels to double back and get the drop on them. It ended up working out better than I could have imagined as they both ran right right past the doorway I was hiding in without even a glance my way. I managed to get lucky and get fatal backstabs on both of them while they were looking at the scenery or something, totally oblivious that I was taking them out. One of the most satisfying experiences I've gotten from DS yet. That's mine. Let's hear yours. Crescent Kilij +4 + lots of magic stat = 284 damage + regenerator ring vs black phantoms using 30% magic reduction shields = dead black phantoms. If they don't block, they get two shot. If they block, I'm still doing like 77 damage per hit so they're still dead. Especially when you're on the walkways in 2-2 so they HAVE to drop down on you, and if they don't roll properly, they either fall to their deaths, or have a long recovery animation which means they're dead. The key to PVP I believe is to upgrade your weapons/spells before leveling up too much.

Ugh, lost probably a total of about 50k souls last night between trying to take out 4-1 and then going through 2-1 and 2-2. Mostly 2-2 since after I finally *did* beat 4-1 with all my accumulated Souls I had something like 68k... that was pretty nice. Anyhow, fuck Flamelurker. I'm ranged with my Royal but I just can't really get space from him, he leaps on me from everywhere and then I can't heal. I only tried him twice, but my god the 2-2 level itself is just annoying as fuck. On Flamelurker get to the rubble at the top of the stairs opposite where you start. I don't know if this was universal, but once I got up there, he couldn't reach me and I just magic'd him down. Beat the Adjudicator earlier and it was one of the few times I said screw it to the distance attack and broke out my dragonsword and just carved him up.

I should be finishing my homework so I can play instead of reading the forums. What's the best stones to upgrade my swords with if I'm playing a magic/dex using character? Depends on how far you are. If you can get to 4-1 you can grab the Crescent Falchion pretty early. I used that for the majority of the game. Did manage to beat that giant club a-hole in 5-2. The rest of it wasn't easy, as there were two more of those guys that I completely lucked out on. Trying to find that shortcut while not knowing what was around the next corner was about as nervous/scared as I've been in a game in a long time. So now I just have 1-4 and I haven't gotten my ass seared by a dragon this many times since . . 1-2. I get about an inch further every life so I can't stop now . . .

I'm guessing you haven't got a certain NPC with you then. Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler Oh, Biorr. So awesome.

I should be finishing my homework so I can play instead of reading the forums. What's the best stones to upgrade my swords with if I'm playing a magic/dex using character? Depends on how far you are. If you can get to 4-1 you can grab the Crescent Falchion pretty early. I used that for the majority of the game. Did manage to beat that giant club a-hole in 5-2. The rest of it wasn't easy, as there were two more of those guys that I completely lucked out on. Trying to find that shortcut while not knowing what was around the next corner was about as nervous/scared as I've been in a game in a long time. So now I just have 1-4 and I haven't gotten my ass seared by a dragon this many times since . . 1-2. I get about an inch further every life so I can't stop now . . . I JUST restarted with a Royal. I've just unlocked the first short cut on 1-1. My Knight had no troubles with the Skeles in 4-1. Block. Stab. Dead. I have a feeling that's not gonna work for me now. More like roll - shoot.

Gone through 4-1, 4-2 and 4-3 with my Royal, though I admit with this character I did level up quite some way first. As long as you don't get hit by their big swings, which is fairly easy to do, you should be fine blocking their rolls and then stabbing them just like everyone else.

Yeah with my Royal, as long as I dodged or blocked their initial roll and swing, I could jump in and tear them down before they got a second shot at me.

doot doot doot In the Chinese version, the line is "This is Harsh. Evaluate me." Everything is slightly off like that. What do the Hand of God flavor text say in the US version? In mine it's like "Once a man fought a dragon with his bare hands, and those fists became a God in China. The Legendary Big M."

Holy shit holy shit holy shit Just killed the maneaters bymyself with both up with just a halberd holy shit holy shit holy shit *collapses*

What world is that in? Should I know what you're talking about?

One of the youtube vids you linked has been taken down for TOS violations, just so you know Rooks. Also, how come there's 4 people doing co-op in that one video? I thought the limit was 3? (host and two helpers)

One of the youtube vids you linked has been taken down for TOS violations, just so you know Rooks. Also, how come there's 4 people doing co-op in that one video? I thought the limit was 3? (host and two helpers) Cheers. Edited. It should work now. Plus the four-player co-op was actually a glitch in the Asian/Korean versions, so I really ought to replace that too... there we go.

I should get some new stuff. What's the easiest way to get new gear immediately following 1-1 that doesn't involve forging?

Ugh, lost probably a total of about 50k souls last night between trying to take out 4-1 and then going through 2-1 and 2-2. Mostly 2-2 since after I finally *did* beat 4-1 with all my accumulated Souls I had something like 68k... that was pretty nice. Anyhow, fuck Flamelurker. I'm ranged with my Royal but I just can't really get space from him, he leaps on me from everywhere and then I can't heal. I only tried him twice, but my god the 2-2 level itself is just annoying as fuck. On Flamelurker get to the rubble at the top of the stairs opposite where you start. I don't know if this was universal, but once I got up there, he couldn't reach me and I just magic'd him down. Beat the Adjudicator earlier and it was one of the few times I said screw it to the distance attack and broke out my dragonsword and just carved him up. See, I thought I remembered someone in this thread saying something about rubble on the stairs, so that's the first place I went. I couldn't really find anything in particular, though I wear nearer the door at the back of the stairs, he jumped right up on top of me, knocked me down and before I could get away from him, hit me again and killed me. Second try I tried the weird skeleton bones to block him and it didn't work at all. So I guess I'll have to look for the rubble again...

I should get some new stuff. What's the easiest way to get new gear immediately following 1-1 that doesn't involve forging? There is a ton of stuff in 4-1. If you can manage to get past the skeletons at the beginning, (you might even be able to run past them w/o fighting if you get lucky) there is a ton of gear lying around. Since you keep items you pick up, even if you die, you might be able to grab some gear. e: 3-1 has a lot of stuff lying around as well, you just have to watch out for the Cthulhu looking dudes because they have powerful spells. If you go there in spirit form and sneak up on them, you could probably take them out and grab all the cool stuff from the cells.

Stock up on spice and spam soul arrow. Roll whenever he charges you and just play really safe. It takes a while, but that's the best way I've found. It's one of the few fights where I stay locked on for most of it. Anyway, does anyone know if regen effects stack? I think I'm going a faith build and upgrading my morning star down the blessed path. Do a regenerator ring + abjucator shield + blessed weapon all stack for huge passive healing?

All regen effects stack, yes. At least for my temple knight I had pretty much that setup - I think I was doing blessed weapon plus Adjudicator's shield and casting slow regen - and it pretty much meant the swamps in the Valley were no problem at all.

Should I continue upgrading my halberd...or is there something as a better investment for giant kill you really dead kind of weapon? I got the Great sword from 1-3 which is too heavy..need more strength.

Quick question, what do the negative numbers mean beside your weapon's damage stat? According to the wiki, that's a bonus that your str/dex/whatever adds to your damage. So does a negative number mean your higher stats make it do less damage? i'm confus

Ugh, lost probably a total of about 50k souls last night between trying to take out 4-1 and then going through 2-1 and 2-2. Mostly 2-2 since after I finally *did* beat 4-1 with all my accumulated Souls I had something like 68k... that was pretty nice. Anyhow, fuck Flamelurker. I'm ranged with my Royal but I just can't really get space from him, he leaps on me from everywhere and then I can't heal. I only tried him twice, but my god the 2-2 level itself is just annoying as fuck. I got so lucky with the Flamelurker. I managed to get him far enough away from me that he didn't give chase and put on the Thief's Ring, then managed to drop him with a barrage of arrows from across the room.