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The psychology of human cruelty.
Fawful
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Ah, the internet. It has brought us many beautiful things, but also exposes us to a lot of man's darkest behaviors. Over the years I have seen my fair share of horrible things on the internet committed by real people to real other living beings, from some of the lovely pictures that they like to collect at sites like Ogrish and Rotten, to kittens being impaled by a crazy Asian woman with stiletto heels, to live movies of terrorists cutting through prisoner's throats while they scream in agony in (IIRC) Iraq.
Things like these (at least to me) just doesn't seem to get any less horrific to watch, every time. Although I can imagine someone becoming a little more numb or resistent to them after repeated exposure.
Yesterday though, I stumbled upon the most horrible, awful thing I have ever seen in my entire life. It's [Thanatos Edit: Nuh-uh, not here] movie of raccoons and other animals exruciatingly slowly having their skin ripped off completely and cut away with knives. They are fully alive and conscious and even live on for a good while afterwards, without their skin.
I feel just completely numb, almost paralyzed even, ever since I first saw this footage. I can't put it out of my mind. Not in my darkest dreams could I ever have imagined something as horrible as this to be even possible. Seriously, it wouldn't even come up in my mind that it would be possible for a human being to another living, sentient being. It boggles my mind like nothing else before.
Can someone explain to me how it is even possible for a human being to think of doing something like this, much less going through with it? Why don't they at least kill these completely innocent and defenseless creatures before stripping them from their skin? How does someone come up with cutting the entire skin of a raccoon while it is still alive and conscious? I'm seriously interested in how human behaviour like this comes to be psychologically. It's just beyond fucked up. Way beyond.
I thought the Saw movies (esp. the third one) were about as sick and fucked up as human imagination could possibly get, but it turns out reality is even far more horrific than the darkest fiction. I can't put this question out of my head: how is something like this possible?
Things like these (at least to me) just doesn't seem to get any less horrific to watch, every time. Although I can imagine someone becoming a little more numb or resistent to them after repeated exposure.
Yesterday though, I stumbled upon the most horrible, awful thing I have ever seen in my entire life. It's [Thanatos Edit: Nuh-uh, not here] movie of raccoons and other animals exruciatingly slowly having their skin ripped off completely and cut away with knives. They are fully alive and conscious and even live on for a good while afterwards, without their skin.
I feel just completely numb, almost paralyzed even, ever since I first saw this footage. I can't put it out of my mind. Not in my darkest dreams could I ever have imagined something as horrible as this to be even possible. Seriously, it wouldn't even come up in my mind that it would be possible for a human being to another living, sentient being. It boggles my mind like nothing else before.
Can someone explain to me how it is even possible for a human being to think of doing something like this, much less going through with it? Why don't they at least kill these completely innocent and defenseless creatures before stripping them from their skin? How does someone come up with cutting the entire skin of a raccoon while it is still alive and conscious? I'm seriously interested in how human behaviour like this comes to be psychologically. It's just beyond fucked up. Way beyond.
I thought the Saw movies (esp. the third one) were about as sick and fucked up as human imagination could possibly get, but it turns out reality is even far more horrific than the darkest fiction. I can't put this question out of my head: how is something like this possible?
Fawful on
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...Yeah.
They valued the money gained from the slow skinning process over the animals life.
They are either high, greedy, desperate, or horrible people.
What's the shock? It was in Enders Game, so maybe they read that (Peter skinning animals, then placing sticks in their limbs to hold them still.)
Edit: I didn't see the video, saving it for when I am really hungry and want to kill the hunger.
The people that don't care or the animals?
When does the video cut away? I'm guessing at that moment they're too preoccupied putting away the skins or something. I don't see why they can't kill the animal in the first place; it's not like skin comes off any cleaner when an animal is still alive.
I personally couldn't be an animal skinner, even if they were dead, because I like animals.
These guys could just be sadist.
Do you eat meat? Skinning dead animals isn't any different from more general butchering (in the food sense). I personally have no particular problem with fur provided the animals are treated humanely.
But yeah, power trips, etc.
It's not even so much the flaying itself, but the way it is done while they are still alive and fully conscious, hanging from their hind legs.
Also Thanatos, I don't understand why you edited the link out? Is it to prevent minors from seeing it or something? People can choose for themself to view it if they want, I'm certainly not making them (as I can't get it burned off my eyes myself). Also, I don't know if you realized but your "Nuh-uh" is really condescending and inappropriate.
I think it's innate, but some people find it easier than others. Suspension of empathy is a basic requirement of doing something unpleasant to another living being. I don't just mean in the gory physical sense either, it could be as basic as telling someone they're fired, going up to killing and gutting a fish, shooting and skinning an animal, etc.
Growing up, I could see how that influence rubbed off on my Dad as well. He was never specifically cruel to animals, but he hated them, and didn't like the pets we had growing up. He usually seemed glad when they would eventually die and he'd get to go bury them. However, I know he isn't a cruel person either - he's actually probably the most gentle and caring person I've ever known. Some people just don't believe that anything but human life has any inherent value, and animal cruelty has about the same effect on them as cutting down a tree. It just doesn't mean anything.
That said, there's a big difference between people like that and those who do it intentionally for sadistic purposes. My Grandaddy never had a problem killing animals, but he never did it just for fun either.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Because I think it would be more likely to be the first, which would in turn stem, at least partially, from a sort of self interest and not so much from altruism or something like that like you might imagine. Because I find it very hard to rhyme the way he regards and behaves towards animals (specifically pets) with a complete and utter gentleness and caring for other people. How can anybody be so caring and gentle towards people and yet so cold towards pets, which produce like an automatic (in fact, I think it's psychologically built in) "awww, how cute" response from like 90% of the rest of humankind? It just doesn't match.
In my defense, meat is delicious, and I would think that the treatment of animals has improved in the meat business (but I'm probably just kidding myself)
It's also possible that the reason he hates pets is because he has already had to see so many animals die and knows that that's something pets will inevitably do. Or maybe he's teribly allergic. Pseudo-psychoanalysis is not sufficient justification to moralise at people.
Depends on the brand. Same for eggs.
Thank god I live in Chicago.
nobody picked up on how the OP was all 'oh yah whatever' about the screaming dieing guys in iraq, but was like 'OH MY GAWD' at skinning animals?
I almost had to throw up after that Iraq video. It was just that it was over significantly sooner (still took an excruciatingly long time though) than the way those raccoons were killed, which just seemed to go on and on forever. But of course it was just as horrific and awful.
Well, it can be argued how humane it is to be killed by having your throat slit and hung upside down until exanguinated.
Some people only value individuals.
Some people value one type of thing (Animal, Human, Plant, Imaginary Friend, whatever), despite what we assume is the natural value of things.
It's somewhat common knowledge by now that plants have some sort of pain response.
Almost nobody cares.
It's commonly known that animals suffer.
Many people care, many people don't. Children are often absolutely oblivious to it, maybe thanks to stuffed animals or animals being punished for defending themselves against the grabby brats. Many people HAVE to cease to care in some degree in order to survive in their environment or at their job, and some people take that waaaay too far.
Humans are just one more breed of animal we have the most training towards caring about. But history and the present show how little that training does overall.
To address your question, Fawful, it's true that I probably see him in a more positive light than others would simply because of my relationship to him. However, I would definitely say that his attitude towards other people is not contained just to those he is familiar with. Even with complete strangers, he's incredibly patient and kind toward them. He gives money and time to charity, he keeps his cool when people wrong him (way more than I do, for sure), and I've never heard him speak negatively of anyone.
It's strange, I agree - I love animals, especially dogs, and his indifference to them has always bothered me. But based on everything I and others have seen from him over the years, I can only conclude that that attitude is limited only to animals, and not humans. And surprisingly, there are many people who seem to have this same outlook - they don't desire to be cruel to animals, but they could care less what happens to them. I don't understand it either, but I've seen far too many (anectodal, true) cases of it to think that there's anything else going on there. How anyone could find a baby adorable but not a puppy is beyond me, but I guess it happens.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
The meat industry is more assembly-line style, particularly in the states. Cruelty is not merely outlawed, it is also inefficient. Once an animal is put down quickly, it can be processed more easily. Doesn't stop PETA from circulating outdated, 30+ year old videos of conditions at a couple of plants chosen specifically because of their documented violations.
A lot of people just never grew up, were never made to value or respect life of any kind. When a boy hits that stage where he thinks it's fun to hurt animals, siblings, or other kids, somebody has to teach him a lesson about reciprocity. Most of us either got bitten by the dog, scratched by the cat, knocked on our ass by our sibling, or stood up to by a classmate at this stage in our lives, and we learned our lesson. We didn't become bullies or sadists, because we were made to realize, with the clarity of firsthand knowledge, that hurting or being hurt isn't fun.
Well, some people never had that formative experience, and it shows. They still see inflicting pain as a source of fun.
But neither do Humans.
Oh boy, more pseudo-psychoanalysis. I never had that formative experience. I learned what it meant to be hurt before I got it in my head to hurt someone else for fun. So does this mean I see inflicting pain as a source of fun?
Edit: To clarify, I have inflicted pain before, and probably will again many times in the future. Is fun my motive?
A neighbor kid, back when I was a youngin', once tried to argue that he had a right be cruel to a fence lizard on our property because his deity made them for people.
My instinct was to break the kid's neck.
But instead I went with no.
That time.
You pushed us closer to the edge, and now we are teetering on the brink, Drez! :shock:
I'm a thinker.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie