Here are these ones with a little more work and the center one done in a rough big brush. To be honest I really like the look of the middle one. How harsh it is yet simple and it still provides enough detail to actually know what it is. mmm maybe thats just me lol.... anyway ill do a few from reference photo's now. Ill try to avoid photos that use a flash because they really mess up lighting because its from two lighting sources then. Ill find a nice simple one light source and work on shapes from there.

That middle one is great - her right arm especially, the thick black line on the side facing her body seems the perfect width, with the notch for her elbow.

With reference, took about an hour. I change the face from the photo and I think you can tell because of the slight lighting difference mmm... You guys seeing an improvement from being 'muddy' ? I have noticed that when I export to jpeg it does take away some of the 'lines' in the drawing mmm i can see in some areas like the top side of the legs it isnt a clear line, same with the top shoulder... mmmm I think I will work on this a bit longer with higher alpha. Thanks for your kind comments to guys. I understand people can get carried away with criticism but its ok. I really want to push myself because I really want to get a career drawing and since I only started drawing late last year when I gave up my music career I have allot of catching up to do. With the few contract jobs I have had the biggest compliments I get is that apparently most graphic designer and drawers 'go off' or get angry when to much criticism is given and it is sent back to many times. I really love it as I want to draw and create for other people, not just me. Sure you cant please everybody but we create for an audience and them liking it and maybe taking something form it is what gives me the kicks. Its why i want to create for games or movies because both have such a huge impact on todays society Im disappointed that I haven't got a job yet apart from a few contract illustration jobs so I really need a push. I've been looking through the forum at some of you guys work to and there is some really really good stuff so I know I am getting good advice *EDIT* Ok looking again at what I did I spent another 10 minutes on it and made it allot sharper I think and I think you guys will like it more. The lines are more clearly defined.

I'm going draw crazy but yeah I did a drawing of a dragon a few months ago and since finding out I need to sharpen my images up I re did it and went over it and made it less muddy and more crisp. Tried to fix the lighting in it as well. Still having difficult with the extra lighting source the flame but I definitely see an improvement since the old version Old version New version

That's a big improvement in the second picture. The picture of the girl is good too, although the light source seems inconsistent.

it really is a huge improvement. You are getting better by leaps and bounds. To extend what tube blathered out of his stupid head, shouldn't all that fire be casting a lot of light on the dragon?

haha yeah I know.. fire makes light sure but I had no idea how to draw that in. Ill give it a go maybe tonight after the movie. Going to see my bloody valentine in 3D lol... Here is another drawing I did just then. About 30 minutes. I always love to draw dragons and they come so easy to me. I have over exaggerated the light source and tried to keep the angle of it simple. Still not adding any colour just because as was said earlier probably best to leave it out at this stage and fogcus on the shapes and light. Here is two versions of it. one with texture and one without

I think a lot of people here shy away from too much praise to make it clear this is not DeviantArt and nobody gets asspats without earning them. That said, you're definitely among the better end of the spectrum in terms of having the right attitude and taking advice to heart, and you're putting your money where your mouth is and putting up lot of updates. Your rendering technique could still use a good deal of refinement. I think the best thing for really getting a strong grasp on photoshop brushes is to try doing a study from a photograph and do the best job you can replicating the forms and paying attention to how the edges terminate. Right now too many of your edges are still fuzzy and careless, like in the dragon picture it almost looks like it was drawn with crayon. Post up the reference you used on the painting study of the leggy woman and we'll be able to give you more specific advice and on how you can improve it.

mmm I think i need to find some lighting tutorials. I'll try your suggestion scosgien. Ill try to find a high res photo to work off so I have the detail to copy.. Im using a funny looking standard brush in photoshop. Maybe I'll give the circle one a go but I really dont like the look of it on the canvas. more light and smoke

I saw this on youtube and thought this might help you! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzoHhgrHrEg It's a guy speedpainting a dragon with very basic colour usage, but remarkable effect!

That video is cool. The dragons are veryy cool Been doing as sugested and working on a reference photo. I probably should of picked a reference with a better quality but I like pulp fiction and I dont think its coming up to badly so far Original Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler My drawing Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler

You're having us on aren't you? You're an awesome artist whose pretending to be a novice aren't you?

You're having us on aren't you? You're an awesome artist whose pretending to be a novice aren't you? haha godd I wish I even have a dodgey website and am struggling to get any work in drawing or even graphic design. I have such a broad multimedia degree which I finished last year and I'm really struggling. I have started illustrating a poem my sister wrote to get it published and hopefully start to make a name for myself. After I improve a bit more I will re-send my resume off to a bunch of places and hopefully this time at least receive one positive response :s I came across this forum because someone I think I applied a job through said I should join it and has been right so if that person is here 'Isaac' I would like to thank you I work hard at the things I want and I struggle in some areas of learning and life but music and hopefully art comes a little easier and I love doing it. It is my dream to work for Pixar or something like a games company.. I think its many years off but I have to keep trying A main issue I have apart from what has already been said being lighting and well drawing technical knowledge which I am working on is I work very quickly and kind of rush through something and then its over. I need to learn to slow my thoughts down and add more detail. As shown in that pulp fiction thing that is only about 45min to an hour work. mmm I draw in shadows and light and then fill in the details which makes it all work quickly but I still dont see things in shapes. Only in light and dark. Anyway off to work and have fun this weekend and I'll be back on the ball monday Id like to thank you all again for the progress you have help me made so far I'm stoked and looking through this forum you all seem so talented and I'm honored to be getting criticism and advice from you. Regards Dom

The pulp fiction drawing is exactly the kind of thing I like to see. You're making mistakes and that's a GOOD thing. If you don't stumble a bit then it's not a study worth doing. It looks like you're jumping a little too soon into the latter steps of the study and not spending enough time observing and setting up your drawing to ensure accuracy. I did a little paintover that will reiterate this, but two things to always keep in the forefront of your thoughts when drawing from observation are: Is the angle of the contour or edge accurate, and does this shape line up where it should relative to others on the same axis in the canvas/page (plumb lines). So here is a section your reference side by side with your painting and some notations that I have made in red, corresponding to explanations below. Almost everything noted here is spotted using some simple tricks for analyzing shapes. A. The window frame in the background isn't just window dressing, it's part of the scene and is actually a very helpful tool to ensure accuracy of your foreground figures if you know what to look for. Notice the strong, sharp edge that the light from the window creates against the suit (You may recall the term "negative shapes". Sometimes it's easier to draw the background against an object than the object itself). Notice in your painting how this edge is wobbly, and the shape is a bit off. B. I've drawn here a horizontal "plumb line", which is simply a vertical or horizontal straight edge that you can use to compare how various features should line up on your drawing. In real life you can hold your arm out and use a ruler, pencil, string, or any other straight edge to do the same thing. Notice in the reference how the top of the gun lines up neatly with John Travolta's chin. In your painting the gun has fallen too low and it throws the gesture of the whole figure off. John's pose doesn't have the same intensity from just this little mistake. C. One of the most appealing parts of this photo is the cool graphic effect the strong rim lighting makes when it plays with the suits and arms. In the photo the folds of the jacket fabric create strong, graphic shapes, but you've muddled around with little brushes and grays. You're too concerned with getting every little crease and furrow in there and not enough with the big picture. These edges should be high contrast and sharp. D. Faces are always tricky, especially celebrities when you have to be foremost concerned with likeness. I could write a whole post about getting John's face right, but I'll just boil it down to a few things to watch out for. His head just a little bit too big in general. John has a big forehead but it's not quite as big as you've drawn it. His face meeting his hair creates a very high contrast edge, it's almost white up against black. That means you have to be extremely delicate and careful with getting the contour right. The features are also handled a little too heavily to match the slightly overexposed look in the photo, and the handling of his mandible is also not quite subtle enough. John has a very slight scowl that is mostly lost in your drawing of the mouth, and again goes to show how just a little mistake can take away greatly from the character of a figure. E. Once again, negative shapes are our friend here. In this case, the negative shape of the back wall against Mr. Jackson's shoulder reveals a big error-- Mr. Jackson has slid far too much over to the left in the framing. We can also see a sliver of light from the window behind detailing John's other arm that has been almost totally lost in your painting. F. Angles are important to pay attention to! For every shape, that goes for the background too. If you look closely you can see that the frame leans to the left in the photo reference but in your painting it's gone the other way. A little mistake like this can throw the construction of the scene off and make things look lopsided and skewed out of perspective. It can also make it hard to use things like negative shapes to help you (like in E.) when you have inconsistencies between big forms like this. G. This shape has gotten a little too thin in your painting, which can again throw off your negative shapes, plumb lines, and all sorts of other details. It's an important bit of his jacket so it's important to make sure it's properly proportioned. If we look a little to the right we can also see John's undershirt-- notice how it's just a bit darker than the bright white we see up near his collar. H. John's shoulder is raised up almost like a little hill here. It's subtle but it's important to getting the gesture correct. We can see in your painting that the angle isn't quite high enough and the shoulder just kind of wobbles down. Whew! Anyway, here is a QUICK little summary paintover taking most of these changes into affect and showing what a few little fixes can do for you. I'm sure mine is a bit off in some places and the likeness isn't perfect but hopefully it gets the point across for you. One final bit of advice is to USE BIGGER BRUSHES! Use the biggest brush you can get away with when painting something. Be foremost concerned with the whole image, then the major shapes before the details.

I see major improvement from first post here. This will soon lead to rock hard abs.

Hey guys. Scosgien: Thanks for the very detailed reply and hints. I feel stupid that I never thought about using lines and grids to check placement on things. I have used the grid technique before but I guess when I work from photos I don't try to make it look perfect because then its not mine. I will try again using the tips you have left me tomorrow. Unfortunately I am going to be a little slower because I got 2 fingers broken friday night at the party I went to. ahaha mmm. some girl slammed the door against my finger tips right on the end on the nails. My nails are black and really hurts lol... I didn't even realise my hand was in the door for a few seconds and then WOAH! Drawing those outlines over the characters 'lines' felt like a click for me to. I am discovering I am just working in to bigger space at a time and not spotting these lines. I am looking for shades and blocks rather than lines and I think you made me realise that is most definitely wrong as well as inaccurate. I appreciate the time you spent on writing it up for me and I know I haven't got you gave me in one go but I will re-read this post a few times and work it out I think I definetly rush through these paintings to much to. I gave the time frame on-top of each of these drawings and I think I need to spend more time working placement out before adding anything else which I think is the main thing you were getting at. I also read on another post for giving another new person feedback that starting off with the solid round brushes might be a good thing instead of using the more shapely complicated brushes. So I will give all of this ago tomorrow. I wish I could try today but I have work in an hour *sigh* Also, great paintup you did Urantia- Thanks for your kind words On another note this is a pencil self portrait I did of myself about two months ago. Id like to give some more pencil drawings a shot soon. Its really weird but when I do pencil portraits people always end up looking heaps younger than they are :p Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler and good ol walter M Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler I did this in pencil and Pen - I really like this one Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler

The optimus prime picture is really awesome, I love that kind of dark hatched look!

Surrealitycheck: thanks mate. Yeah I like that allot to Ok.. sooo I decided to mix a few things I have learnt since joing the forum and some of the things Scos has said in his previous post about lining things up etc. To help me with this one I worked on the 'right brain principle' to start with drawing the image upside down until i was happy with the position of the shapes. I did find this helped me see lines more clearly and position on the page but I was unable to really put in detail while it was upside down. So yeah then I flipped it the right way, finished it off and then added a little more with the horizontals flipped just to get that third 'look' on what I was drawing. I am also trying to use as bigger brush as possible. This drawing took me maybe just over an hour. I chose to do the werewolf off underworld for a few reasons, one is that the colour pallet isn't huge and I don't think i have the colours down and also it was a high contrast drawing which made it easier to see the shapes involved. Unlike the Pulp Fiction one I spent a bit more time laying out the drawing before even attempting detail I think the results are pritty good but as usual I would love for criticism. I know I have a long way to go before I am good and I am using every push you guys give me to help me get there I appreciate you guys on this forum allot Original Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler My drawing Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler

Update* Here is the underworld poster I just drew. Took just over an hour again. Do you think its getting muddy again? I kind of found this brush that I like with low flow but it makes the edges a little umm rough. Original Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler My drawing Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler lol lol lol I just noticed that I have made her fatter, lowered her knee on the right and stuff. Quick call Jenny Craig

ok ok. I'm sure I have posted way to many things already but here is a drawing I just did. I used a few different reference photos to try to get the perspective right. The forshortening is really hard and I know I dont have the hands right yet. I am going to find and do a study on hands I think because I have so much trouble. So.. I tried to keep the light source consistant for this drawing. Can I please get a critique. Thanks Dom

Legg! You're really improving. The wolf from Underworld is a really good example of your dedication to doing studies and improving. The foreshortening on this last portrait you did seems to be what's throwing it off, but I can't really tell without the original picture you were using. Right now, it seems like the girl's head is HUGE rather than coming towards us. You said you used several pictures for reference- that might be the problem if you started combining perspectives from one picture to the other. Post your reference to make it easier to work this out.

I think it maybe that you applied foreshortening to the head but not to the rest of the body. The hands are equal in size yet the difference between head and shoulders would dictate a much greater difference in size between the shoulders and legs (including the hand rested on the leg) You could consider using perspective lines to help shore this up.

I think it maybe that you applied foreshortening to the head but not to the rest of the body. The hands are equal in size yet the difference between head and shoulders would dictate a much greater difference in size between the shoulders and legs (including the hand rested on the leg) You could consider using perspective lines to help shore this up. ok silly question but how would you use perspective lines on this? im familier with like 2 point perspective drawings and one point with buildings and landscapes. Would i put the point like above the head and work as a triangle down ?

Short answer would be to treat the body as a series of (or as being enclosed in) boxes, which you would apply the appropriate perspectve (with the vanishing point below the person, not above).

Yup, treat the body like a building, a really weird fucked up incredibly complicated looking building with arms and legs and shit.