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Old 04-11-2009, 08:59 PM
Anyway I get the idea now, it mainly seems contextual.

I don't think it applies in this case since it's made in japan and the judgements aren't taking into account all the cultural elements involved there.

But I definitely see that no euro-american designer could make this game.

Am I allowed to like the hair dragons though? I don't care that she's naked, I like the hair dragons!
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:59 PM
Podly wrote: View Post
but you are paedobear
actually nowadays I believe he goes by Titus Pullo

TITVS PVLLO!
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:59 PM
I think this phalla has rendered me incapable of complex synthesis.

It has worn me out.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:00 PM
Really Ellaten is a nice lady.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:00 PM
quote:
Kratos has a couple of minigames where he fucks women does this count as a terrible male stereotype.

Plus Dante. Smarmy charm and all that, he sure is a sexy lad.

Indeed all of dmc 3. Undershirts? I need no...undershirts.
Those are pretty bad examples. The first is to be "mature" and is for titillation that appeals to horny pathetic gamers. It has little to do with Kratos' actual characterization and was superfluous in both games. I haven't played any of the DMC games enough to comment on Dante, but he never seemed to have overtly sexualized moves to me.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:01 PM
Hachface wrote: View Post
Podly wrote: View Post
also, Hach, speaking of Homer

I'm taking a class on Homeric Greek next semester.

I am le terrified.
I want to learn Ancient Greek sooooooo baaaaad
maybe I'll get a joint MA in philo when I go to law school and use that as an excuse
I'm still not sure if it's worth all the effort that it takes.
I hope it is.
Learn latin first. My big mistake was jumping head first into ancient greek, because it is essentially the opposite of english.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:01 PM
Morninglord wrote: View Post
Anyway I get the idea now, it mainly seems contextual.

I don't think it applies in this case since it's made in japan and the judgements aren't taking into account all the cultural elements involved there.

But I definitely see that no euro-american designer could make this game.

Am I allowed to like the hair dragons though? I don't care that she's naked, I like the hair dragons!


Yes. Yes you are.

You can enjoy it and not be a bad person.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:01 PM
Zen Vulgarity wrote: View Post
Really Ellaten is a nice lady.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:02 PM
Well you are.

I'm sorry I was such a dick when I first [chat]ted with you.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:02 PM
Morninglord wrote: View Post
Anyway I get the idea now, it mainly seems contextual.

I don't think it applies in this case since it's made in japan and the judgements aren't taking into account all the cultural elements involved there.

But I definitely see that no euro-american designer could make this game.
Be careful. While context can depend on the culture that doesn't eliminate the facts. Japan's culture is pretty heavily sexist in general, and the fact that it's normal there doesn't eliminate the fact anymore than in the Middle East.
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Within the context of being-human, I still think that it is better to have thought and committed suicide than to have never thought at all.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:02 PM
Couscous wrote: View Post
quote:
Kratos has a couple of minigames where he fucks women does this count as a terrible male stereotype.

Plus Dante. Smarmy charm and all that, he sure is a sexy lad.

Indeed all of dmc 3. Undershirts? I need no...undershirts.
Those are pretty bad examples. The first is to be mature and is for titillation that appeals to horny pathetic gamers. I haven't played any of the DMC games enough to comment on Dante, but he never seemed to have overtly sexualized moves to me.
You missed the part where I was comparing the main stereotypes, not the sex. Stop focusing on the sex, I'm only treating it as a psychological attitude without any special emphasis.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:03 PM
Hachface wrote: View Post
Podly wrote: View Post
but you are paedobear
actually nowadays I believe he goes by Titus Pullo

TITVS PVLLO!
Perdurantism, bitch.

Zen is always - already paedobear and titus pollo, as we interact with four-dimensional time slices of the entity "zen vulgarity."
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:03 PM
Bayonetta does not try and appeal to our minds, rather she uses violence and sex to appeal to our bodies.

I mean, I think you can definitely appeal to the body, but I think you ought to balance that with an appeal to the mind, as well. I like being emotionally invested in video game characters regardless of their genders and a simple appeal to the body won't create that investment.

But I may very well be speaking nonsense.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:03 PM
Podly wrote: View Post
Hachface wrote: View Post
Podly wrote: View Post
but you are paedobear
actually nowadays I believe he goes by Titus Pullo

TITVS PVLLO!
Perdurantism, bitch.

Zen is always - already paedobear and titus pollo, as we interact with four-dimensional time slices of the entity "zen vulgarity."
I'm the Deadpool of [chat].
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:03 PM
Organichu wrote: View Post
So in a total divergence from James Joyce or whatever old timer interspersed with Obs that you're all talking about... I was thinking back to this girl from college. She was really good with guys. She wasn't abstinent or promiscuous, as far as I know she was totally average in her sexual activity. She was just amazingly skilled at making guys smile, and not even making it look like flirting. I think I'm sort of a people person, and I still sort of go "whoa, that girl could be a marketing exec or an escort or something". She just had this WAY, it was weird. I've had guy friends who were the 'life of the party' but this was somehow different, and I don't even think I was sexually attracted to her... it was weird. I dunno.
so being as I have never met someone I'd describe this way, I'm somewhat jealous.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:04 PM
Sarksus wrote: View Post
Bayonetta does not try and appeal to our minds, rather she uses violence and sex to appeal to our bodies.

I mean, I think you can definitely appeal to the body, but I think you ought to balance that with an appeal to the mind, as well. I like being emotionally invested in video game characters regardless of their genders and a simple appeal to the body won't create that investment.

But I may very well be speaking nonsense.
Seeing as these things are all part of a single gestalt, possibly.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:04 PM
I had a year of Latin
I like declining things
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:05 PM
Morninglord wrote: View Post
Couscous wrote: View Post
quote:
Kratos has a couple of minigames where he fucks women does this count as a terrible male stereotype.

Plus Dante. Smarmy charm and all that, he sure is a sexy lad.

Indeed all of dmc 3. Undershirts? I need no...undershirts.
Those are pretty bad examples. The first is to be mature and is for titillation that appeals to horny pathetic gamers. I haven't played any of the DMC games enough to comment on Dante, but he never seemed to have overtly sexualized moves to me.
You missed the part where I was comparing the main stereotypes, not the sex. Stop focusing on the sex, I'm only treating it as a psychological attitude without any special emphasis.
So why do you think most of those characters with similar psychological attitudes don't have overtly sexual moves? The obvious reason is that they aren't female so wouldn't appeal to many pathetic videogamers.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:05 PM
Incenjucar wrote: View Post
Morninglord wrote: View Post
Anyway I get the idea now, it mainly seems contextual.

I don't think it applies in this case since it's made in japan and the judgements aren't taking into account all the cultural elements involved there.

But I definitely see that no euro-american designer could make this game.
Be careful. While context can depend on the culture that doesn't eliminate the facts. Japan's culture is pretty heavily sexist in general, and the fact that it's normal there doesn't eliminate the fact anymore than in the Middle East.
It is sexist in our culture, but this is a generation of the culture itself and it's hard to criticise it because it's so accepted that I wonder if there is any psychological harm from it.

There is the strong tendency to be the best example of your perceived role as you can be, and that doing this is a recipe for the good or authentic individual, which doesn't really leave any room for the omg sexist angst you get in an individualistic society. Their self esteem is improved by becoming more independent, for example.

For example a female putting themselves down isn't necessarily a bad thing, because a). men do it too
b). the interdependent nature of the society is structured so that an individual is boosted by boosting the people around them. So "ego defense" would be actualised through denigrating themselves and boosting others. "I'm not that important"

Which makes straight ethical comparisons a bit tricky.

Last edited by Morninglord; 04-11-2009 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:05 PM
although Homeric Greek sounds daunting since it's probably something like 500 years older than anything else you've read
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:05 PM
Hachface wrote: View Post
I had a year of Latin
I like declining things
That's why we don't speak Latin today.

Rome declined.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:06 PM
Elldren wrote: View Post
Sarksus wrote: View Post
Bayonetta does not try and appeal to our minds, rather she uses violence and sex to appeal to our bodies.

I mean, I think you can definitely appeal to the body, but I think you ought to balance that with an appeal to the mind, as well. I like being emotionally invested in video game characters regardless of their genders and a simple appeal to the body won't create that investment.

But I may very well be speaking nonsense.
Seeing as these things are all part of a single gestalt, possibly.
Well can you tell me why I'm wrong? This is a learning experience.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:07 PM
This is the man you will call when you think your wife might be cheating on you.

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Old 04-11-2009, 09:08 PM
Morninglord wrote: View Post
Which makes straight comparisons a bit tricky.
This is true of any culture. However, sexism is a defined thing. It comes down to treating people different due to which gonads they have outside of the actual physical issues produced by those gonads. Whether you think it is HARMFUL depends on your cultural perspective or personal values. It's kind of like the terms "Pro-Choice" and "Pro-Life." They're chosen based on perspective, but their ACTUAL meaning doesn't change if you call them "Anti-Life" and "Anti-Choice."
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Within the context of being-human, I still think that it is better to have thought and committed suicide than to have never thought at all.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:09 PM
Hachface wrote: View Post
although Homeric Greek sounds daunting since it's probably something like 500 years older than anything else you've read
Greek is particularly frustrating because each region celebrated their own dialect. It would be like learning english and trying to learn Dickens, Joyce, and The Wire all at once, because each region has different forms and then the forms themselves have mundane forms and poetic extensions. Then you have to go back 500 years.

Fuckuckuck
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