It says a lot when shows like Battlestar Galactica have you caring about secondary, even just recurring characters more than Voyager ever made you care about the main cast. Who you knew wouldn't die because of the almighty Reset. Yeah. I was infinitely more distressed about... (Early S4 BSG spoiler:) Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler Cally getting airlocked ...than I was about Kes transcending flesh, or whatever. You know, I had to pull up Memory Alpha to see exactly what happened to her, and I have to say, I honestly think she's more attractive than Jeri Ryan. Kes was just a boring character, a pretty straight-up Troi clone with a weird boyfriend.

It says a lot when shows like Battlestar Galactica have you caring about secondary, even just recurring characters more than Voyager ever made you care about the main cast. Who you knew wouldn't die because of the almighty Reset. Yeah. I was infinitely more distressed about... (Early S4 BSG spoiler Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler Cally getting airlocked ...than I was about Kes transcending flesh, or whatever. You know, I had to pull up Memory Alpha to see exactly what happened to her, and I have to say, I honestly think she's more attractive than Jeri Ryan. Kes was just a boring character, a pretty straight-up Troi clone with a weird boyfriend. Hell I cared more about Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler Peter Laird than the entire Voyager crew. Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler Rest in peace, old friend.

Him too.

This reminds me of the pilot of Voyager when Ensign Kim and Party Boy Paris were on DS9. There was something so cool about that. And yeah, I actually thought Kate Mulgrew was a pretty good actor when the writing allowed her to be. She was a little hammy but I really enjoyed it. Seska was the only manifestation of the 'two crews being forced to integrate' potential for awesome, and by the third season she was a cardassian double-agent claiming to be pregnant with the XO's baby while shacking up with Kazon...? Wtf? Meanwhile, the guy who played Sisko made me cringe with his delivery sometimes. It. Was. Just. Tooo Much! ....about the pauses. And Dax #2 was a pointless affair.

Hay. HAY! Don't talk bad about Avery Brooks. He will find you.

He. Will. Find Me! And Bore! Me. With his In-Con-Sis-Tent De-Liv-er-Y!

I never got the "DS9 isn't Trek" line of thinking. To me, the show was a logical playing out of themes introduced in TNG (fleshing out the alien races, making the journey just as much about self-discovery as exploration). Sure, it doesn't have an Enterprise after the pilot, but eventually they do get a ship and trek around some stars. Just because it's really fucking good it's not Star Trek? i don't get it. Though I will say, the only thing that bugged me abou the Dominion War was the complete absence of the Enterprise-D or Enterprise-E. They even have a nod to the storyline in First Contact, with Worf helming the Defiant, but I would kill to see Patrick Stewart's Picard and Brooks' Sisko interact more often. Hell, I'd watch a buddy cop series about those two bringing awesome and enlightenment to the galaxy. Also, the best Q episode that isn't All Good Things... is his appearance on DS9. Trufax.

A lot people didn't think DS9 was Trek because it was a) Set primarily on a space station, without as much going where no one has gone before b) Too dark--politics, religion, and war mattered a lot more than exploration and bringing wonderful federation values to the benighted c) Not very episodic by comparison to other Treks--you actually had to watch every week, in order to appreciate the story and character arcs that drove the show (especially later on) By the way, I think ...All Good Things was kind of shitty (reset button), although it had some nice moments for the fans. My favorite Q episode is Déjà Q.

Though I will say, the only thing that bugged me abou the Dominion War was the complete absence of the Enterprise-D or Enterprise-E. Well, I think that speaks to the feeling that DS9 "isn't really Trek." If the Next Generation crew were around, it would be hard to overlook that the Dominion is the sort of problem they usually faced down and disposed of in the course of a single episode: Picard would shout at someone, Riker would bang a Founder, and it would end when Geordi and Data whip up a multiphasic protoion wave and boost it through the main deflector dish to turn the shapeshifters back into goo. I'm being a bit glib, but that does highlight the distinction between DS9 and the other Treks - it is drama and tragedy, and they are melodrama. I hasten to add, however, that when it was coined the Greek word "melodrama" did not carry the negative connotations it does today. DS9 experimented with character arcs and stories that explored the fallout and consequences of previous choices. By contrast, the original series and Next Generation featured characters who were archetypal and basically superheroes in all but name. That's not a bad thing; creating a set of iconic characters with easily-recognizable attributes and putting them into different situations without actually changing them very much is a completely valid approach to storytelling that has worked for centuries. Sticking the TNG characters into DS9 would have made those differences really uncomfortably apparent, however, and it would do neither set of characters any favors - either you make Picard and company less heroic and competent, or the DS9 group looks frazzled, neurotic, and morally suspect by contrast. I think the best thing for all concerned is to assume that the Enterprise was off at the edge of the galaxy dealing with even bigger threats than the Dominion.

I think you're right about the difference between the shows (though I haven't watched much DS9) and how the twain shouldn't meet. Still, a juvenile portion of me wishes that at the end of one of the DS9 seasons Sisko and his crew are in a corner facing certain death and then suddenly the Enterprise comes screaming out of the sun to save them and Picard yells 'Yee-ha' and vaporises every bad guy in sight before flying off with an RAF victory roll. He might be wearing a cowboy hat as well. I haven't decided.

I think you're right about the difference between the shows (though I haven't watched much DS9) and how the twain shouldn't meet. Still, a juvenile portion of me wishes that at the end of one of the DS9 seasons Sisko and his crew are in a corner facing certain death and then suddenly the Enterprise comes screaming out of the sun to save them and Picard yells 'Yee-ha' and vaporises every bad guy in sight before flying off with an RAF victory roll. He might be wearing a cowboy hat as well. I haven't decided. You've almost made me rethink my position! Picard should be holding a small dog under one arm, however.

Totally stupid Star Trek fanboy question: you can pick a crew for a new Enterprise that's going on another five/seven year mission, and you can have any mixture of characters from any of the series on it. You can't have more than one character doing the same job (i.e. no Bones and holographic Doctor, no Riker and Spock), and assume that characters from old series are now up to date with current technology so Scotty won't be scratching his head over Geordi's new-fangled gubbins. Who do you pick? And yes, I realise this is utterly pointless, but I'm imagining Kirk on the bridge trying not to look down Troi's top while simultaneously punching Worf out for being a dirty Klingon and it's fun .

Totally stupid Star Trek fanboy question: you can pick a crew for a new Enterprise that's going on another five/seven year mission, and you can have any mixture of characters from any of the series on it. You can't have more than one character doing the same job (i.e. no Bones and holographic Doctor, no Riker and Spock), and assume that characters from old series are now up to date with current technology so Scotty won't be scratching his head over Geordi's new-fangled gubbins. Who do you pick? And yes, I realise this is utterly pointless, but I'm imagining Kirk on the bridge trying not to look down Troi's top while simultaneously punching Worf out for being a dirty Klingon and it's fun . Too easy. Original series crew, everyone from Enterprise and Voyager can be red shirts.

A lot people didn't think DS9 was Trek because it was a) Set primarily on a space station, without as much going where no one has gone before b) Too dark--politics, religion, and war mattered a lot more than exploration and bringing wonderful federation values to the benighted c) Not very episodic by comparison to other Treks--you actually had to watch every week, in order to appreciate the story and character arcs that drove the show (especially later on) Don't care about the setting, don't mind the war, don't have a problem with non-episodic shows (in fact, I thought DS9 didn't go far enough, and suffered for sitting on the fence), still don't think DS9 was good Trek. It's a good show, right behind TNG as far as I'm concerned, but don't much care for what it did with the universe.

Anyone here ever play the Star Trek: 25th Anniversary point and click game? I'm reinstalling it now because it's so damn awesome.

I would assemble a special Star Trek No-Marks crew comprised of incidental characters - Captain Robert April (because what was his deal, anyway?), First Officer Number One (because I like the idea of hot genius superwomen in go-go boots), Dr. Selar from TNG, the chubby Asian engineer from "The Naked Now", Ensign Three-Titted Alien from Total Recall, and Barclay. They would spend their time fending off the schemes of the Space Retards.

Anyone here ever play the Star Trek: 25th Anniversary point and click game? I'm reinstalling it now because it's so damn awesome. That game was a solid gold classic. I just wish I could find a copy of Judgment Rites.

Too easy. Original series crew, everyone from Enterprise and Voyager can be red shirts. Really? You'd have Chekov, the walking bullseye, over Worf at Tactical? Or Sulu, cool though he is, rather than Data in the driver's seat?

I would assemble a special Star Trek No-Marks crew comprised of incidental characters. That is an awesome idea.

Too easy. Original series crew, everyone from Enterprise and Voyager can be red shirts. Really? You'd have Chekov, the walking bullseye, over Worf at Tactical? Or Sulu, cool though he is, rather than Data in the driver's seat? Worf can't arm veapons and fire at wessels for shit. Sulu is too awesome for words whereas Data is a fucking liability. I would have Spot on board though.

Anyone here ever play the Star Trek: 25th Anniversary point and click game? I'm reinstalling it now because it's so damn awesome. That game was a solid gold classic. I just wish I could find a copy of Judgment Rites. First level, after disintegrating the rocks, getting the red shirt to keep fucking with the hand scanner, so awesome!

I was a huge Data fan as a kid, but as I've grown older and rewatched TNG I have realized that as a character he was pretty much at the mercy of the script. There were a clutch of brilliant Data episodes and a genuinely startling number of offensively stupid ones.

Worf is a great Tactical officer. His immediate suggestion when coming up against the unknown is to recommend instantly destroying it. He loves targeting wessels and arming veapons. Data is the man. Just as long as they aren't up against Borg. Or his brother. Or ancient Mayan gods. Or anyone who can re-write his programming. Or tribbles, probably.

I'd like to point out that the Enterprise and Picard were in DS9. Spoiler: show spoiler hide spoiler One episode counts, right?

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