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Selective Service Sustains Self, Stirs Shit

GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered User regular
edited January 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2746094&page=1
Dec. 22, 2006 — The Selective Service plans to test its operational system in case the United States again opts to draft young American men into military service — a test laden with meaning as the Bush administration considers increasing the size of the military and a surge of new troops in Iraq.

Preparations for the new test, slated for 2009, will begin in June. But Selective Service officials, who have been overwhelmed with telephone inquiries over the news, are quick to say that this test is merely a routine exercise.

"The whole thing's a tempest in a teapot," agency spokesman Dick Flahavan said. "We're not getting ready to spring a draft."

The Bush administration has opposed a draft, with former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld saying the current all-volunteer force is adequate and more effective. But the prospect of a draft has been increasingly controversial as the three-year-old war in Iraq grows progressively more unpopular with the American public.

Veterans Affairs Secretary Jim Nicholson on Thursday told reporters that "society would benefit" under a renewed draft, though he later said he did not support bringing it back.

Democrats opposed to the Iraq war have used the threat of a new draft to draw Americans' attention to the stakes of the conflict. Incoming Ways and Means Committee Chair Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said last month that he plans to reintroduce legislation in the 110th Congress to reinstate the draft.

A Troop Surge

The test was announced as President Bush appears likely to declare a surge of 30,000 or more new Americans troops to join the current 140,000 soldiers on the ground in Iraq to curb rising violence. Bush told The Washington Post that he is also favorably inclined toward increasing the size of the Army and Marines. The services have recently lowered standards for many of the 1.4 million-strong service members now in uniform in order to maintain current recruiting levels.

Rangel has offered — and voted against — the measure in the past. In October 2004, a month away from a tight presidential race fueled by rumors of a new draft, the Republican-led Congress overwhelming defeated Rangel's bill to restore conscription, 402-2.

Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., and Rep. Pete Stark, D-Calif., were the only members of Congress to vote in its favor.

Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has said the proposal is not high on the congressional priority list come January, but she commended Rangel's commitment to the cause last month.

"It's not about a draft; it's about shared sacrifice in our country," Pelosi told reporters in her office.

But when asked directly if she supported a measure to reinstate the draft, "No, no," was Pelosi's answer.

The test is a dry run of the machinery that randomly selects men who are legally obligated to sign up at 18 and the bureaucracy that considers conscientious objectors and appeals for delays based on hardship.

History of the Test

The agency has run through tests periodically since mandatory draft registration was reinstituted in 1980 for the first time since the Vietnam War. But it hasn't tested the system since 1998 due to funding shortages, Flahavan said. The organization's budget has slipped from about $28 million in the 1980s to $24 million in 2006. So the test, last planned for 2005, has also been delayed, Flahavan said.

"The year 2009 seemed like the closest time we could do it given resources and manpower," Flahavan said. "It may not even happen then depending on what we look like in 2008."

The agency has a full-time staff of 150 but would need 6,000 to carry out a draft. Another 11,000 part-time officials in 2,000 local draft boards and state headquarters have been designated, but only do annual training in case of a draft, agency officials said.

"My title's bigger than my staff," quips Flahavan, associate director for public affairs. "Most of our structure doesn't exist during peacetime because there is no draft."

The gist: The small staff the draft has haven't been able to do routine maintenance since 1998. They announced plans to do that routine maintenance in 2009 (FUN FACT: The next President begins his/her term in 2009). Just that simple act caused the media to swarm all over them.

I'd put up some discussion questions, but I have a feeling this thread's going to take a life of its own no matter what I say after the article banana banana poontang.

I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Gosling on
«13

Posts

  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    I still hate Clinton for keeping the Selective Service alive.

    It's outdated, but if we need to keep it, it needs to apply to women too.

    FyreWulff on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    FyreWulff wrote:
    I still hate Clinton for keeping the Selective Service alive.

    It's outdated, but if we need to keep it, it needs to apply to women too.
    o_O

    Who are you, and what have you done with the real FyreWulff?

    On a more serious note, given the amount of blatant lies that have come from this administration, is anyone really surprised that the media doesn't believe "we're not planning for a draft?" I mean, seriously, "we're not going to war in Iraq," "Secretary Rumsfeld will be around until the end of my term," "we had nothing to do with the Wilson leak," etc., etc., etc.

    Eventually, you tell people enough lies, and they stop believing you.

    Thanatos on
  • matt7718matt7718 Registered User
    edited December 2006
    If I was called for the draft I dont know what the hell I would do.

    Some days I feel like joining the military and making something of myself and some days I tell myself I would just take the prison term.

    matt7718 on
    mattsig.jpg
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    Thanatos wrote:
    FyreWulff wrote:
    I still hate Clinton for keeping the Selective Service alive.

    It's outdated, but if we need to keep it, it needs to apply to women too.
    o_O

    Who are you, and what have you done with the real FyreWulff?

    On a more serious note, given the amount of blatant lies that have come from this administration, is anyone really surprised that the media doesn't believe "we're not planning for a draft?" I mean, seriously, "we're not going to war in Iraq," "Secretary Rumsfeld will be around until the end of my term," "we had nothing to do with the Wilson leak," etc., etc., etc.

    Eventually, you tell people enough lies, and they stop believing you.

    Clinton had a chance to kill it off but caved in to pressure because getting rid of Selective Service would "dishonor" those who were drafted in World War II.

    Honestly though, the Democrats are more likely to issue a threat than Bush - they have been the ones threatening to call it in hopes that people would vote the war out of existence.

    FyreWulff on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS
    edited December 2006
    FyreWulff wrote:
    Thanatos wrote:
    FyreWulff wrote:
    I still hate Clinton for keeping the Selective Service alive.

    It's outdated, but if we need to keep it, it needs to apply to women too.
    o_O

    Who are you, and what have you done with the real FyreWulff?

    On a more serious note, given the amount of blatant lies that have come from this administration, is anyone really surprised that the media doesn't believe "we're not planning for a draft?" I mean, seriously, "we're not going to war in Iraq," "Secretary Rumsfeld will be around until the end of my term," "we had nothing to do with the Wilson leak," etc., etc., etc.

    Eventually, you tell people enough lies, and they stop believing you.

    Clinton had a chance to kill it off but caved in to pressure because getting rid of Selective Service would "dishonor" those who were drafted in World War II.

    Honestly though, the Democrats are more likely to issue a threat than Bush - they have been the ones threatening to call it in hopes that people would vote the war out of existence.

    Not "the Democrats". Charles Rangle.

    Pffft. The Democrats.

    Shinto on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Isn't this a bit of a storm in a teacup? I mean, by 2009 there's a new president and the troubles with Iraq will most likely be over. Now, if only someone would just figure out that a drafted army is not the sort of thing you want in a modern war...

    Aldo on
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Aldo wrote:
    I mean, but 2009 there's a new president and the troubles with Iraq will most likely be over.
    :?

    YosemiteSam on
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  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Aldo wrote:
    Isn't this a bit of a storm in a teacup? I mean, but 2009 there's a new president and the troubles with Iraq will most likely be over. Now, if only someone would just figure out that a drafted army is not the sort of thing you want in a modern war...
    Most likely be over? Explain yourself.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    FyreWulff wrote:
    Thanatos wrote:
    FyreWulff wrote:
    I still hate Clinton for keeping the Selective Service alive.

    It's outdated, but if we need to keep it, it needs to apply to women too.
    o_O

    Who are you, and what have you done with the real FyreWulff?

    On a more serious note, given the amount of blatant lies that have come from this administration, is anyone really surprised that the media doesn't believe "we're not planning for a draft?" I mean, seriously, "we're not going to war in Iraq," "Secretary Rumsfeld will be around until the end of my term," "we had nothing to do with the Wilson leak," etc., etc., etc.

    Eventually, you tell people enough lies, and they stop believing you.
    Clinton had a chance to kill it off but caved in to pressure because getting rid of Selective Service would "dishonor" those who were drafted in World War II.

    Honestly though, the Democrats are more likely to issue a threat than Bush - they have been the ones threatening to call it in hopes that people would vote the war out of existence.
    But at least the Democrats aren't child molesters, unlike the Republicans.

    Thanatos on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    mtvcdm wrote:
    Aldo wrote:
    Isn't this a bit of a storm in a teacup? I mean, but 2009 there's a new president and the troubles with Iraq will most likely be over. Now, if only someone would just figure out that a drafted army is not the sort of thing you want in a modern war...
    Most likely be over? Explain yourself.
    Troubles for the USA, maybe? :P I don't think Bush wants to stay much longer if it continues to be a shitty situation. Same goes for the Dems.

    2 years is a long time you know. :?

    Aldo on
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Ok now follow me on this one...

    ...if they dont have money...

    ...to actually use the sytem...

    ...that they get paid to use in the first place...

    ...then why do these people still have jobs?

    And as much as the american public is hating on the war right now I dont think a draft would really go over to well. I think that most people would rather have the whole mess over with.

    Bedlam on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm following you Bedlam, completely.

    To add to that; how would a few thousand young boys with guns "beat" guerillas and rioting civilians?

    Aldo on
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • wobblyheadedbobwobblyheadedbob Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Aldo wrote:
    I'm following you Bedlam, completely.

    To add to that; how would a few thousand young boys with guns "beat" guerillas and rioting civilians?

    Because they're dressed like civilians and run up to you and explode. Plus they positive that they're going to eternal bliss afterwards.

    EDIT: This coming from my cousin who is on his thrid stop-loss and piloting helicopters in Tikrit as we speak.

    wobblyheadedbob on
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    ololol give illegal immigrants citizenship and draft them instead!

    Cantido on
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  • CrimsonKingCrimsonKing Registered User
    edited December 2006
    If theres a draft I'm picking myself up a house in Rivera Maya, failing that; I would rather go to jail than be drafted, because I would rebel against authority at all points if I were forced into the military. That being said, I think I have made it known that I believe the draft is worthless.

    CrimsonKing on
    This sig was too tall - Elki.
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS
    edited December 2006
    Cantido wrote:
    ololol give illegal immigrants citizenship and draft them instead!

    Actually, I think we do have a program that gives people citizenship in exchange for serving.

    Shinto on
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    Cantido wrote:
    ololol give illegal immigrants citizenship and draft them instead!
    Actually, I think we do have a program that gives people citizenship in exchange for serving.
    So wait, we're intentionally letting them steal our jobs?

    stilist on
    I poop things on my site and twitter
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS
    edited December 2006
    stilist wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    Cantido wrote:
    ololol give illegal immigrants citizenship and draft them instead!
    Actually, I think we do have a program that gives people citizenship in exchange for serving.
    So wait, we're intentionally letting them steal our jobs?

    Jobs Americans don't want.

    Like getting blown up.

    Shinto on
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    stilist wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    Cantido wrote:
    ololol give illegal immigrants citizenship and draft them instead!
    Actually, I think we do have a program that gives people citizenship in exchange for serving.
    So wait, we're intentionally letting them steal our jobs?
    Jobs Americans don't want.

    Like getting blown up.
    Don't gimme that crap, you freedom-hater.

    stilist on
    I poop things on my site and twitter
  • LessLess Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    stilist wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    Cantido wrote:
    ololol give illegal immigrants citizenship and draft them instead!
    Actually, I think we do have a program that gives people citizenship in exchange for serving.
    So wait, we're intentionally letting them steal our jobs?

    Jobs Americans don't want.

    Like getting blown up.

    As long as they're poor, who care where they come from?

    Less on
    i've got so many things you haven't got
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Don't despair. Not even over the fact that you don't despair.Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Some would call me (and others) unpatriotic because I think the draft is dumb. No, I don't want to go and fight in some silly, made up war for silly, made up reasons. I think that was the same deal with Vietnam.

    If America itself were under attack though, I can at least SAY I wouldn't flee the draft. I think there should be a distinction between 'willing to fight for your country' and 'not wanting to go to a pointless and deadly quagmire.'

    Casual Eddy on
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    Casual Eddy: best poster 2014.
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Casual Eddy: best poster of 2015

    gotta update that stuff man
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    Cantido wrote:
    ololol give illegal immigrants citizenship and draft them instead!

    Actually, I think we do have a program that gives people citizenship in exchange for serving.

    That sounds like the French Foreign Legion. You sign up, after 5 years of service you become "french by spilled blood".

    saggio on
    3DS: 0232-9436-6893
  • RaggaholicRaggaholic Registered User
    edited December 2006
    I hate this administration as much as anyone else, and the Selective Service garbage almost screwed me out of law school loans (umm... government... remember when I was down in Quantico, VA?), but they did test this system around four times in the 90s with no draft afterwards.

    Raggaholic on
    Feral wrote:
    Hell just froze over, because I just agreed with everything Raggaholic said in post about sex.
  • GlaealGlaeal Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    EDIT: This coming from my cousin who is on his thrid stop-loss and piloting helicopters in Tikrit as we speak.

    Why would he be affected by stop loss three times? Stop loss prevents you from getting out of the military, and they can only justify it once, for a limited period of time.

    Either your cousin is feeding you bullshit or you aren't paying attention. Believe it or not, they actually have rules to follow in the military.

    Glaeal on
    Qingu wrote: »
    In fact, there was never any decree by God through the Prophet that they couldn't recieve the priesthood.
    The last nine words of this statement are unnecessary.
  • IShallRiseAgainIShallRiseAgain Registered User
    edited December 2006
    Less wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    stilist wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    Cantido wrote:
    ololol give illegal immigrants citizenship and draft them instead!
    Actually, I think we do have a program that gives people citizenship in exchange for serving.
    So wait, we're intentionally letting them steal our jobs?

    Jobs Americans don't want.

    Like getting blown up.

    As long as they're poor, who care where they come from?
    Wrong most soldiers are middle class.
    Links for your benefit:
    http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec2005/d20051213mythfact.pdf
    http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm

    IShallRiseAgain on
    Alador239.png
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    so, that's why america's middle class is disapearing.

    redx on
    This machine kills threads.
  • CheerfulBearCheerfulBear Registered User
    edited December 2006
    That's what Lou Dobbs was talking about!

    CheerfulBear on
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    rickjamesgoatna9.jpg

    nice.

    redx on
    This machine kills threads.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    redx wrote:
    so, that's why america's middle class is disapearing.

    I've noticed that it's mostly suburban and rural folk going.

    Which doesn't surprise me at all.

    Incenjucar on
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    arn't most americans suburban or rural? particularlly the middle class?

    redx on
    This machine kills threads.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    redx wrote:
    arn't most americans suburban or rural? particularlly the middle class?

    I was pretty sure that the majority of the country was in the cities.

    http://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/1population6.htm

    This says I'm right.

    Sort of.

    Suburb has its own chart, which is absolutely stupid.

    Incenjucar on
  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    So, the test is due in 2009. Which means that just preparing to test it will take about 2 years. Just to get ready to test. How is this system supposed to be useful in the case of an emergency need?

    On a not-entirely-unrelated note, I was listening to an interview on NPR recently (I think it was Friday, but I have no more specific information) in which an Air Force general was saying that, while the Army is having trouble filling recruitment goals, the AF is in exactly the opposite situation; they're looking at laying people off due to lack of funding. Basically they have too many airmen. They recently set up a system to allow "blue to green" transfers, basically letting airmen transfer to the Army instead of being laid off. Very few people took them up on the offer.

    GoodOmens on
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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Would getting out of a draft be as simple as asking for a hearing and then making out with the guy next to you in line while you wait?

    jothki on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    jothki wrote:
    Would getting out of a draft be as simple as asking for a hearing and then making out with the guy next to you in line while you wait?

    Maybe if you were good friends with transsexuals.

    Incenjucar on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    jothki wrote:
    Would getting out of a draft be as simple as asking for a hearing and then making out with the guy next to you in line while you wait?
    DADT would get tossed out on its arse the moment they started up a new draft.

    Thanatos on
  • GlaealGlaeal Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    GoodOmens wrote:
    So, the test is due in 2009. Which means that just preparing to test it will take about 2 years. Just to get ready to test. How is this system supposed to be useful in the case of an emergency need?

    On a not-entirely-unrelated note, I was listening to an interview on NPR recently (I think it was Friday, but I have no more specific information) in which an Air Force general was saying that, while the Army is having trouble filling recruitment goals, the AF is in exactly the opposite situation; they're looking at laying people off due to lack of funding. Basically they have too many airmen. They recently set up a system to allow "blue to green" transfers, basically letting airmen transfer to the Army instead of being laid off. Very few people took them up on the offer.

    You've got to remember though, that's a result of not having funding. They're still below the minimums needed to effectively fulfill their mission.

    Glaeal on
    Qingu wrote: »
    In fact, there was never any decree by God through the Prophet that they couldn't recieve the priesthood.
    The last nine words of this statement are unnecessary.
  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Truthfully, I don't think we'll see the need of a draft in the near future. If something happens that causes us to need a huge influx of new troops, chances are it will be some type of terrorist attack, and those generally cause a bunch of new people to join the service anyways. That's certainly what 911 did. Any attack that makes huge news headlines is enough to bring out patriotism in people and help keep the military going.

    In that hypothetical situation that they did bring it back, I'd move. Personally, I don't have to worry, I'm 29 (30 in a month :( ), overweight and flatfooted to boot. However, I have a 2 year old son and I wouldn't want him to go through war if I could do anything to prevent it.

    Lindsay Lohan on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Thanatos wrote:
    FyreWulff wrote:
    I still hate Clinton for keeping the Selective Service alive.

    It's outdated, but if we need to keep it, it needs to apply to women too.
    o_O

    Who are you, and what have you done with the real FyreWulff?

    On a more serious note, given the amount of blatant lies that have come from this administration, is anyone really surprised that the media doesn't believe "we're not planning for a draft?" I mean, seriously, "we're not going to war in Iraq," "Secretary Rumsfeld will be around until the end of my term," "we had nothing to do with the Wilson leak," etc., etc., etc.

    Eventually, you tell people enough lies, and they stop believing you.
    Well, you know, the draft rumors were started by Get Out The Vote, with the explicit and avowed intention of getting college-age kids to swing their vote Democrat, so, like, what the fuck ever.

    Salvation122 on
    sig.png
  • SupramanSupraman Registered User
    edited December 2006
    I screamed in my head when i read this. Im 16, so I would be turning draft age most likely if this ever got passed.:cry: And I have no idea WHAT i would do if I was drafted. I know the ever present <flee to canada> option is there, but once you dodge, you cant come back correct ? I'm just no soldier, and I certainly wouldnt be a soldier in a war I do not believe in.

    Supraman on
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  • MrMisterMrMister A pup must first get in the water to be successful as a seal!Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Supraman wrote:
    I know the ever present <flee to canada> option is there

    Not anymore--Canada has agreed to extradite draft dodgers. Really, it's go to war or prision.

    MrMister on
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