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Sangheili91
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if you truly fear then kicking you out/losing your love life over something like this then your choices are pretty simple. either go along or leave
it shouldn't be this way, but it is. With anyone of strong beliefs, whether they believe in a god or the strict denial of god, there's going to be literally nothing you can do to make them change their mind. They will never said "oh it's so clear now" and switch to your side.
You don't believe in god, so there's no divine retribution waiting for you. To you, water sprinkled on your head doesn't change you. And going to church isn't going to ruin your life.
If you really fear being kicked out because of your beliefs, then that does suck, but that's the way it has to be. You either have to make it seem like you're putting forth the effort with your parents, or you must leave/get evicted.
With your girl. If she is of such strong belief that the very idea of her dating a non-christian would force her to break up, then you're going to break up eventually.
religion gets in the way of lots of things, whether your religion is christian, judaism, atheism, or whatever
get a job, save up money, work on moving out, seriously consider your future with this girl
ltimately there is no harm in going to church even once a month except for a few hours of wasted time. Most sermons I've heard at least have a good message.
With the parents, go with your plan. Fake it, pay lip service, and as crappy as it is, swallow your pride. By the same token it doesn't mean you have to suddenly start being super religious. Just do the bare mininum that will keep your parents happy.
However, might it be worth speaking to the pastor/priest/whatever at either your parents' church or your girlfriend's church? Do they seem like reasonable guys, who might be willing to help you out, or realize that having to deal with all this bullshit because of their religion is really just souring you on Christianity in general even more, and making it that much less likely that you'll consider it any time in the future? Or are they more likely to side with your parents?
I agree with this answer, sorta. You're atheist and if that is your conclusion than nothing is going to change that. Unfortunately, this is not great for your relationship with your parents, which is particularly hard to deal with. I'd recommend finding other ways to bond with your parents in the mean time. Basically, I'm advocating doing what it takes to strengthen your relationship with your parents. If that is important to you. The problem with attending church to make your parents happy is that it is missing the point. Eventually, that isn't going to satisfy them--they want you to believe and trust in God, because (I assume) they care for your eternal soul. So, I guess I'm just saying do your best to keep communication open and hope for a resignation on their part. Mainly, remaining respectful of their religious views will at least keep the relationship from spiraling downhill.
This is one of those situations in life that doesn't have a great answer.
I went through this with my mom already--I still get christian literature every so often from her, but mostly it has become a non-issue and I still enjoy a fairly close relationship with her.
99% of religion talk in church is based on morals
stuff like "be good to your family" and "don't kill" are decent lessons even without the religion
however, it may be a not-so-terrible idea to go once or twice and see what it's like. some churches are more focused on the teachings of Jesus then they are about being So Very Right™ about God and the universe and all that.
As for the girl, if you don't get out of it now, it will be more painful later. There are going to be manifestations of her beliefs that are going to be annoying to you, beyond just forcing you go to church. You will find yourself making all of the concessions, and your girl making few or none.
I was in your place with respect to the girl. I stayed with my religious girl for way too long, thinking about the relationship in postmodern, enlightened terms of tolerance that just aren't realistic when the other party doesn't feel the same way.
My religious background, so you can see where I am coming from: my Father is Muslim and from Pakistan (or, technically, India - but this was pre-Pakistan formation, so Islamabad was in India at the time) and my mother is a Catholic from South Dakota, USA. They met at college - go figure.
Anyway, I'm 24 now and generally 'eh' on religion. I can see the point, but I don't follow either faith all that strictly. I've never been able to reconcile that if you take either of my parents' religion at face value then the other is going to hell for not being Muslim or Catholic. My stance has always been one of a 'try to be a good person, but don't go to church' thing.
I've been seeing a girl for almost a year now and she's absolutely amazing - and Christian with a capital "C". She goes to Assembly of God, and to her credit, has only once offered to take me to church with her if I'd ever like to - which I politely declined.
To make a longer story short, she had a similar faith crisis as your girlfriend. She suffered some major flack from her friends about dating out of her faith and pulled that exact same line on me - different animals shouldn't be yoked together, or whatever.
My response was to tell her clearly and respectfully that to me it sounded like she was saying I wasn't good enough for her. That if I was exactly the same personality wise, but went to church, we'd have a free and clear relationship. Therefore, not being Christian was a strike against me - and thus, less than her. I told her that if this was how she felt and what she wanted, I wished her the best in the future, but I wouldn't be staying with her because I wasn't going to try and convince her that I was good enough for her, sans faith. Simply put, if I was going to be with her - I would have to be good enough for her and mean enough to her as is.
She thought about that for about...one hour, before she called me, sobbing, saying that she was in love with me. It's been smooth sailing since then and I believe I'm with the girl I want to spend the rest of my life with.
My advice is similar to the story. If you want to go to church for her, to make her more comfortable, that's great and very generous of you. However, she has to be fully aware that deep down, you believe something different. She needs to do more than tolerate that, she needs to embrace it for the relationship to succeed.
Oh, and I had also enlisted the help of a gradeschool friend who is now a Lutheran minister, this is what told me.
1. According to the Doctrine of Justification embraced by Catholics, Lutherans, and a lot of Methodists - not one faith ensures your entrance into heaven. That is, no one set faith can guarantee your salvation nor justfy to God that you are 'in'. Futhermore, the Hebrews Epistle's states directly that one should not expect to meet their spouse in heaven, because it's an earthly affair.
2. Jesus Christ tells his own mother that he does not feel that she is, in fact, his mother because by the 'spirit' we're all brothers and sisters under God.
3. Corinthians 1 verse 7, 'the wife justifies the unrighteous before God. Or more specifically, "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." So, I mean, she should be faithful enough for you as well.
He gave me more ammunition to debate her with, but it never got that far.
So, uh, this is longer than I thought it would have been.
TL;DR - Your girlfriend needs to make the decision of whether she wants to be with you on her own. You can't convince her that your good enough for her as an Atheist, she needs to know that and believe it on her own.
As far as the parents, point out the Doctrine of Justification thing if they keep telling you that you're going to hell. Otherwise, church and lipservice to keep peace in the family (like everyone else is saying).
Hope this helps.
This would be by far the most recommended IMO. I have the feeling your parents are still in shock. From the sounds of it, they had years and years of thinking they understood some aspect of you shattered. Now on top of this, they now fear any number of issues attributed to what unbelievers are associated with or eventually subjected hitting their son. This is not exactly conducive to thinking rationally instead of emotionally. They really need someone with more experience with this kind of issue to talk to them. Don't expect that trying to talk to you about the matter will ever fully go away though even if it becomes more calm and less frantic. For many Christians, it's something along the lines of talking about something you enjoy like a book, movie, or game.
As for the girl, it's probably not going to work out. Yes, interfaith relationships can work. So can long distance relationships but some people just don't want the stress and uncertainty that come along with either. As someone who's been in a position once similar to yours and now sees it from a perspective closer to the girl's, I'll give you some insight into what is likely going on in the back of her mind. First off, you can put a bit of the type of concern your parents have but less sharp since you're not directly related. Now add to that knowing that she will always love God more than she does you and that a relationship with a nonbeliever will never be one of equal reciprocation. You can also add a large dose of realizing that one of the pillars of her experience and being is something that she simply can't share with you. Try to picture never being able to talk about stuff that happened to you in middle school or with your childhood best friends with someone for a very rough picture of what we're dealing with. I've seen a friend dealing with all this from a similar position as the girl for a little while now and it has not been pretty. And this is with about 10 more years of life experience than you. This is the "big deal" you weren't seeing and it is indeed massive. And you really have more than enough to deal with on the part of your family to even think about trying to overcome this in a relationship.
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Your parents sound like they want to talk to you about it, so at least you can talk to them about it, and that is more than some people in your situation might be able to say. I would just keep being a good person and talking to them about it frankly when the opportunity comes up.
And I would dump the girl; aside from the conflicts in the relationship, it would seem like you're sort of leading her on.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
But during my college career, doubts set in. I developed some serious problems with the logic of the faith, and eventually I came to the honest conclusion that, well, it probably just wasn't true. I resigned my position at the Church. My parents caught wind of it and called me one afternoon to ask if I wanted to go to mass with them. I declined. My dad asked, "Are you even going to Church anymore?" And I responded that I was not. "Let's talk," he said. At a coffee shop later that night, we had a long discussion about faith that got pretty heated, but my dad eventually realized that my knowledge of religion far exceeded his own. He didn't have the answers for my problems with the faith, and it was clear that he was not going to change my mind.
A couple weeks later, the day after Thanksgiving in fact, my parents sat me down and said they were very disappointed with me. After all, I had been the one that helped them grow in their faith, and they looked on me as some kind of betrayer. I turned my backs on them and their church. Then, they said that their college money would now come with strings attached. Lots of strings. No food money, no books money, no support at all unless I went to go see a priest and had a discussion about these issues. I was suspicious. Surely they wouldn't yield after just one visit with a priest. If that wasn't going to convert me back, and they genuinely believed that my soul would burn in hell forever and ever unless I did convert, they wouldn't stop at just one visit. So I asked them about it, and they made it clear that this wasn't going to be the only request.
So I had a choice.
Do I lose out on my primary source of food and miscellaneous college money and go see a priest, followed by a probably long list of religious tasks to complete?
Or do I stand my ground, refuse to acquiesce to their demands, and lose out on that support?
Now, I completely understand those who would take the first route. After all, a couple hours with a priest probably wouldn't kill me. It really wouldn't. I could get through it. I certainly wasn't afraid of my beliefs changing. My parents probably wouldn't be satisfied with just one meeting with a priest, but so what? So they make me meet with more priests? That's really not all that big a deal. They make me go to mass? So what? I've been going for ages anyway. They might make me go to therapy, but that's still not that big of a deal. It would definitely be worth more in pure dollar value than getting a job, that's for sure.
But on the other hand, they were not respecting me. They were not respecting my reason. They were not respecting me as a person. They were using silly threats and withdrawing their support as parents because of my damn good reasons for not believing in their religion. Yeah, I could give in to their demands. Sure. I could do that. But what kind of person does that say I am? That I just back down from my beliefs just because someone threatens me with taking away some money? Am I the kind of person that stands up for what I believe in - or do I bow out to the pressure of money? And what kind of precedence would that set for my relationship with my family if I gived in? Would I be saying that they can make me do whatever they want, just because they have power over me?
Well, I chose the second option. I respectfully declined to participate in any discussion with a priest. If I decided that going to a priest would help me, I would do it - but I would not do so just because it's the only choice I have. I told them I was going to stand my ground on this one, and they had better get used to it. I had experienced 20 years of religion at that point, and I was done with it. If I do change my mind, it will be on my own time, at my own discretion, and because of better reasons than just parental pressure.
They didn't like that, and completely followed through with their plan. My financial situation was pretty dire for a few months, but my friends and their family helped me out with food. I got a job the following semester. I did compromise a little bit on one issue, and that was books. I needed books, and couldn't find a way to secure the $400 necessary. So impressed upon my mother and father the need to buy books and how it was critically important to my college career. He wouldn't back down. So I told him that I would go to a priest for ONE half-hour to discuss things, and that he was to have no contact with this priest. He could not discuss anything that I talked about, and I made clear that there was absolutely no way that I would pursue any other religious discussions with anyone out of financial pressure. This was it. 30 minutes with a priest for $400 in books - take it or leave it. He agreed.
I went to the priest, told him how I felt about religion, and we ran out of things to talk about pretty quick. He had no answers for my problems other than faith, and we decided further discussion was pointless. 15 minutes later, I picked up the check from my dad and bought my books.
My parents never pressured me to attend Church or pursue any religious counseling ever again, to this day. I think their impression of me changed quite a bit. Before these events, I pretty much did whatever they asked. I never stood my ground on any issue, and I gave in to their every demand. I was a kid and they were my parents.
But once this issue came forward, I think they stopped looking at me as a child. They saw me as an equal; an adult that they could not push around. They profoundly disagreed with me and were very disappointed in me - but they respected me. They respected my beliefs and my decisions, and still do.
Our relationship has improved by unbelievable margins since that point. We get along quite nicely and have dinner very frequently - usually once a week. We just avoid talking about God.
Edit: Holy Jesus this was long. Let's do a TL;DR:
- I faced a similar situation with my own parents. I chose to stand my ground and refuse further religious things any longer. Our relationship sucked for a few months, then improved considerably as they gradually grew to respect me as a person. I generally encourage all other atheists to go this route as well. Stand up for what you believe in and you'll eventually earn your parent's respect.
Salmoned for very, very bad idea. First off, I think MegaMan001 may have misquoted or misinterpreted his Lutheran friend. The disagreement on justification by faith is one of the primary reasons Lutherans split from Catholics. Lumping the two in the same camp in this matter is akin to fighting words among theologians. There are other differences between what was posted and any version of it I've ever encountered even when talking to friends from totally different churches.
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Do you really want the person who is supposed to be the closest to you (the girlfriend) believing something entirely different than you for something so important? I would dump the girl unless you truly believe you can be happy living a lie or knowing that your partner likely believes you are going to hell. For some, it would be easy to simply avoid the subject and not talk about god, but from what I've heard your girlfriend seem to have made it a fairly large part of her life and is starting to try and make it yours too. Save up and move out, you're 18 and it's a good time to do so anyhow. If you like going to church, go to church but don't ever allow yourself to feel pressured into it socially. If you feel pressured into doing so, my advice would be to get out of that situation.
I say this as an atheist who came out to his parents and largely Christian group of friends when he was 18, and moved out shortly thereafter. I stopped believing when I was about 15, pretended to believe for a year, and then avoided the subject with my family for another two years as I knew they would likely kick me out if I admitted to being an atheist.There will be some rough times where you are largely shunned, and people will insist that you have no morals, that you're cold and hard-hearted, and that in general you're an asshole simply for not believing the same thing that they do. These are common stigmas attached to being an atheist, and they are hard to work through especially given the temptation to lash back and insult the person attacking you. You can't pretend to be something you're not and be happy, as your inner self will eventually break through and destroy your facade and will leave you even less happy in the end. I am much happier, and much less intellectually conflicted than I was when I was trying to be a Christian, but it took some time.
You might try picking up a couple books, including Sam Harris' End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation to read as they have helped me rationalize my point of view to friends and family in a civil way while also gaining a better understanding of what I personally believe. The God Delusion is good, but it contains a lot more hostility towards the faithful than many can appreciate and really is more of an atheist's book for atheists.
Hey man, that may be true in your experiences. I'm going by what I've been educated and told the interpretation means.
I'm not saying it's absolutely true, but may give him some footing if he wants to go toe to toe with his parents.
I take issue with this reasoning this because a lot of religious people take the next logical step from here which is to assume that without church one cannot be a good person. In fact this is probably the same train of thought that led to the OP's parents getting so upset, since they seem to keep telling him he must not have any morals.
OP: Being confrontational about it won't win anyone over. You're already lumped into a category that everyone loves to hate, getting prickly about your atheism (in real life, but I make no excuses for my internet behavior) is the surest way to just convince them that they were right to assume the worst of you. Don't approach it like a debate, or an argument, or a struggle that you can "win" because winning isn't possible. It'll only end it tears (and maybe homelessness depending on your parents). You're on the automatically losing side, here. Religious discussions just aren't a level playing field for most people.
Be humble but be firm, you don't have to agree to play along just to please someone else. If they were hardcore vegetarians and found out that you've been secretly eating bacon for years, you shouldn't have to stop eating meat right then and there just for them. If you start going to church with them now they won't just drop the issue, they'll press you and push you and coerce you from here to eternity about whether or not you've seen the light. You can't take back what you've said, so stick to your guns. The other option is to string them along and live with the constant haranguing.
Be tolerant of their opinions and don't be a condescending asshole. You can accept that they believe what they want, and ask them to be as understanding towards you. You actually respect their beliefs, you aren't just saying that, and you won't ever attempt to belittle what you perceive as flaws or contradictions or whatever. This assumes you really do respect their beliefs, and if you don't I suggest you get to work on that.
Be the mortal incarnation of the "turn the other cheek" principle, if they say things that hurt you (and it sounds like they already have). But don't use that phrase, or anything Biblical; atheists who try to bring up the Bible, no matter how well-informed, succeed in doing nothing but aggravating Christians. It's their book, leave it be.
The best way to convince the "atheists have no morals!" crowd that they're wrong is to just be a decent dude. In the short term you just need to avoid making things worse while they get over the shock. In the long term you need to demonstrate that you're the same exact person and their fears are unfounded. After a while they'll realize you aren't a sociopath, life will go on, and you won't have to feel guilty anymore (us recovering Catholics never really stop feeling guilty though, we just ignore it). Be the better man about it.
Or I mean you could try being smugly arrogant instead. It might take less time?
maybe I've been going to the better churches but they've always seemed to try to stay positive
Few churches say that. More would say something along the lines of "not following through with good Christian practices puts you at greater risk of damnation" or "disbelieving in Christian teaching certainly doesn't help you get to Heaven" or something similar. They'll phrase things in terms of greater risk, but rarely declare someone as going to hell.
Parents attempting to reduce their child's chance of eternal damnation is understandable.
If you are going to continue to live with them, the best thing you can do is nod and smile and go to church and so on to keep them happy. In my experience christians in the family tend to freak out if you aren't following their faith, and their reaction depends on how insulated they are from non-christian society. If they have no friends outside the church then you are treated as a 'them' rather then an 'us', and since 'them' is an unknown faction you are now unrepentant godless heathen and they don't know you. It's not exactly logical but, well, it seems to be the reaction you are getting.
If you can't get out, and you don't want to deal with their concern for your immortal soul, then you're best bet is to pretend your lapse of faith is over and smile and go to church and jump through whatever hoops they present. It sucks, but the alternative is the weekly lectures and so on.
Either way you go, I'd suggest letting the girlfriend go, she won't accept you as you are if you stay true to yourself, and if you jump through hoops you are lying to her, which, to me at least, isn't acceptable in relationships.
It has a bunch of stuff on atheist morality etc, might be handy in convincing your parents you're not a monster.
Judging y what you've said, of course, I'd still expect you to end up faking it for them until you move out.
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For people who I talk with casually, if they're somehow offended that I'm an atheist, I simply say "sorry, I don't talk about god," and stick with that. I don't believe in anything religious -- why would I want to argue about it? It's like arguing about why grass is purple.
For friends & family it usually doesn't come up. With my mom, who is more religious than my dad (but not by much), I remind her gently when it comes up. I pointed out when I made the decision (that I wasn't agnostic or a "weak" christian) that it didn't mean I was a different person, or suddenly evil or anything, and I also pointed out that if I hadn't said anything, they probably wouldn't even have noticed.
Now, I get in more serious conversations with friends and such, people who I have more choice in being around. I pretty much could never be friends with someone who harangued me about church or religion, because it would simply be about getting under my skin. That's also why you may want to reconsider the girlfriend thing -- if you're going to church to make her happy, to solve a problem superficially, what does that say about how you feel about her? You like her enough to make her think going to church means something, but not enough to say "Look, if you love me, this is what the deal is. I'm an atheist, I do not believe in anything supernatural, and I won't believe in anything supernatural. That means I'll likely raise my kids the same way, and won't go to church unless for special events that are held in churches for ceremony (like weddings, funerals, and so on). Even when I do go to church, the religious messages are meaningless to me."
Of course, you should also point out that you don't think any less of people who believe differently -- you understand that others see things differently than you do, and that it's what makes being alive so much fun anyway. And, if you're feeling like others are pushing on you, point out that if you're able to understand that they have different beliefs, they should understand that yours are different as well.
I often point out to curious friends that the only real difference, as far as I'm concerned, deals with death. And since none of us are dead, and none of us can report back to the others when we die, it's sort of a moot point to argue about anyway.
But I will say that I am very happy that my wife and I share our lack of belief. We never fight about it, and when we're in awkward situations we can back each other up.
Hang in there, whatever you decide, take the time to think everything through and plan where you can. I went through years of parents thinking I was a horrible person for not being a happy enthusiastic christian, it was miserable. I couldn't pull off a charade, if you can, you're a better man then I.
I don't really see myself moving out until later next year at the earliest. So I guess I'll just keep things going with my parents until then and see what happens. Maybe, hopefully, they'll simmer down some by that time. So I won't full-out stage a revival, but I'll just be polite and courteous and continue going to church. It's not really a bad thing; like the one poster said, it only results in a few hours wasted time. Things are going really well between me and the GF, and I'd rather not ruin it by bringing up something that for awhile has seemed to be a non-issue. I mean, I know it's not, and I know that the logical thing to do would be to break up with her, but I really don't want to. I sound like a stupid teenager, even to myself, but I just don't want to break up with her.
So again, thanks for the responses, and anyone else who has anything to say would be greatly appreciated.
Tell your folks that you aren't a member of their religion, and then don't go to Church. Pretending to agree with their views just to preserve harmony is lame, and your parents sound like their own faith is weak and infantile if they can't handle the fact that others may not happen to share the same views as themselves.
You should also make the point that religion doesn't have a monopoly on morality, and that philosophy has been dealing with issues of conduct and justice for at least 500 years before the birth of Christ. Just because you don't buy into divine command theory doesn't mean you can't live your life in a virtuous way.
I think you've settled on the best course of action. Sometimes you gotta engage in a little diplomacy. Your parents will come around in time (most do, anyway). Speaking of which, how far is the girlfriend from being able to move out? Might make your relationship a little easier if she can decide on her own whether she wants to date an atheist.
This, this, this.
I had the exact same parent situation (I got luckier with the girlfriend). Realize that ultimately it's your parents decision of how to deal with you and your beliefs. You can only do so much - and by all means, don't try and make it harder for them. So while you live in their house, I'd say keep going to church, listening to grace, whatever. As long as the truth is out, going through the motions for their sake won't hurt you and you're still being honest. Think of it as a chore - most kids mow the lawn, shovel the driveway, take out the trash, generally help out around the house (at their own inconvenience) as a way to make parents' lives easier because your parents are taking care of you. Going to church will help your parents out and only cost you a little inconvenience.
What you don't want to do is antagonize them or other religious people. If they get belligerent, try and extricate yourself from the argument as gracefully as possible, but don't try and argue; don't get angry or defensive, don't attack them. You're not going to convince them, they're not going to convince you, it is literally a waste of time.
Once you're financially independent (or at least not living with your parents anymore) you can match your actions to your beliefs. From that point on, it's up to your parents how they want to treat you. My parents treat me pretty normally, but they won't set foot inside any apartment that either I'm living in (I live with a girlfriend - IN SIN!) or my sister is living in (GAY). That's their decision, nothing I can do about it. It blows, but it blows for them too and they can change their minds whenever they want.
But until you move out, do what you can to keep your parents happy. If you're lucky, with enough time they'll be a bit more understanding. But nothing will hinder that process more than you dragging your heels and trying to martyr yourself for no good reason.
So when I go somewhere, say a wedding, and they all bow their heads to pray, I don't. I don't pretend to bow my head and think happy thoughts to keep up appearances, I just stand and quietly wait for people to finish. Because if I were to bow my head and "pretend", then I am not showing their religion and them the respect that they expect and honestly deserve. So instead of just lying to them and their God, I respectfully let them finish, and get on with life.
So if you are sure of your atheism, then stick to that. The issues with your girlfriend won't go away if they matter to her. If you lie to her, well theres a great thing to build a relationship on, and believe me, after 5 or 10 years of it, someone will expose the truth, you or her, and it won't make things easier.
Your parents will still love you regardless. They will get over it. My fiance was raised Catholic, when she was about 15 she decided she couldn't do it anymore. She hated how the church would act towards people who didn't share catholic beliefs, and she thought it was immoral (imagine that...). So she told her mom. Her mom cried, she was not happy with it, but being an understanding, rational, human being, she never held it against my fiance. Her mom does everything in the world for my fiance, and doesn't treat her any different than any of her other children, including my fiance's brother who is a missionary and ordained minister.
So be honest to your parents. Be honest to your girlfriend. Be honest, because honesty is something that people of both religious and non-religious beliefs can understand and it won't be hard for you all forever, and few things in life are easy, and this will be good practice for the next 60 years of dealing with people of different faiths.
Oh, and don't break up with her if you don't have to. If God exists or not, I doubt he/she/it would want people tearing apart their relationships over beliefs. If you want to be an adult, have an adult conversation, and bring it up. Ask her if she would be willing to live with you for 60 years, keeping in mind the idea that you may never change. Ask what you would teach your kids. You basically have two things to look at here, either she is someone you want to be with forever, or shes just another girlfriend. If shes just another girlfriend, then fine break up with her, if you really care for her and think its going to be something bigger, then don't wait to talk about the future.
None of this gets any easier by putting it off. I wasn't sure about having kids, but my fiance want's at least one, soooo, we talked about it, and came to an understanding. It helps to have not waited until we were married to talk about it.
Yes, it can be hard, because we don't share something that is very important and central to my life, but he is (as he should be) completely accepted by my church, in fact heads up the work we do as a church with homeless people where we live. Everyone at church knows he's not a Christian, but he's a key part of what we do as a church. I accept that that's a bit strange, but that's just how we are.
Our children have grown up in the church, but its up to them what they do - they know about God, they know about other faiths, and make their own choices. I will always love and support them, cos they're my children, we don't have to agree on stuff. (although if they joined the BNP I'd think I'd failed totally as a parent!)
Being in a relationship with a Christian when you're not can be difficult - there are boundaries that may come up that don't with other couples - no sex outside of marriage for example, but if your relationship is worth anything, you can work things out together. Lying about or professing a faith you don't have, just to keep the peace doesn't seem a good foundation for any relationship, whether its with her or your parents, so I couldn't see how that would work in the long term. To your parents til you leave home, if you think that's the only way to survive at home, that will be hard for you, and won't do your relationship with them much good.
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"The power of the weirdness compels me."
Not all parents are forgiving and loving no matter what, especially when it comes to issues of religion. Lying to someone who is emotionally/financially blackmailing you into believing what they believe does show contempt for their beliefs, but at that point, their beliefs are worthy of contempt. And no one is advocating lying to your parents for the rest of your life; just until you're out from under their thumb.
And really, bowing your head when a prayer is being recited is just as much a sign of respect as sitting quietly is. I'm really not seeing any sort of difference whatsoever.
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"The power of the weirdness compels me."
While I am fortunate to have largely non-religious parents, I have friends in the same situation as you, they chose the temporarily faking it route largely because of tuition for college. Don't know if college is in your plans but it is something you should consider.
Also, personally haven't dated anyone super religious, but again I've had an older friend who eventually broke up a long term relationship because religion became a point of contention, with things like are their future babies going to church?
If he is of a specific religion whose services require lots of active participation, that's not necessarily true. Kneeling in Catholicism during the Consecration and while the Eucharist is exposed is a sign of worship. Standing during important parts like the Gospel reading is a sign that you're giving the Gospel special attention and respect. Performing the Sign of the Cross is a psychical testimony that you believe in the trinity. Saying almost any of the responses affirms that you believe in them: Amen means "Yes, I believe," for instance. Singing any of the songs affirms that you believe in them too, seeing as how almost every song in Church is a strong affirmation of it's teaching.
I guess he could sit there and do nothing, or just stand and sit. But both of those things are incredibly awkward. The social pressure to give in and participate in a Catholic mass is overwhelming. Either you participate and curse yourself for giving your assent to Catholic teachings which you strongly disagree with, or you don't participate and look and feel like a douche.
I would imagine that many Churches are similar.
Edit: I guess for people who don't know what they're doing in a Church aren't giving their assent when they kneel during the consecration, or whatever. But for those of us who did pay attention and who do understand the meaning behind the rituals, participating in those rituals is obviously not just a sign of respect - it's worship and a sung, spoken, or physically expressed affirmation of that Church's teaching.
How is it a load of crap? Not all parents are forgiving? Well obviously. But those that aren't, are not going to be better off by you lying to them. Just because your moral standing stops as soon as things get tough, doesn't mean everyones has to. If your parents give you THAT MUCH crap for it, but you stand your ground, then if there is a God, he will sure as hell respect you more for it, and if there isn't, at least you can respect yourself.
My whole post is about respect. Respect someone elses religion, and hell, humanity, enough to not lie to them. Respect yourself enough to not lie to them. Basically, be a good person.
Thats a load of crap apparently.
And no, bowing your head isn't a sign of respect. If you do something because you feel like you have to do it just so you don't look bad, thats not respect. Like I said, I am amazed by what people convince themselves of as being for someone elses own good. They are adults too, they can handle it, and if they can't thats NOT your problem, its theirs. It seems like your view of things is that if the group is doing it, then you have to do it.
Now, if you choose to bow your head, theres no law against it, I just think its pandering if you do it just to not possibly draw attention to yourself and almost mocking their beliefs. If you think otherwise then fine, thats what beliefs are about, but I just don't see how its not. You may not be openly pointing and laughing at them, but you are pretending to care. If you really don't care, you are mocking the deep, DEEP, spiritual beliefs they have.