Tig's been slowly falling apart all season long. Once he and Gemma started he finally hit rock bottom and realized he had no idea of who he was anymore. Tig thinks of himself as a dashing outlaw not as a murderer of women and betrayer of friends.
He dealt with his guilt by seeking out punishment. He had a pretty clear idea of what Opie would do when he said what he said and Tig did absolutely nothing to defend himself.
The thing is that Tig is not a strong man. He's the muscle, a task man, the Sergeant at Arms, a follower, even a yes man. But he's not strong. When he's faced with something that is actually morally troubling, he doesn't know how to handle it, and can get very confused. He'll still carry out the action, but can be left conflicted and unsure, and with something as big as accidentally killing a club member's wife it will eat away at him. As Bobby said, Tig is blind action, but it doesn't mean it doesn't affect him. It just means that he doesn't think about it before hand but it can really eat at him otherwise. Tig is probably the most immature of the characters on the show.
Amikron DevaliaI didn't ask for this title.Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
On the bullet thing, bullets also have markings now on who made them etc. as was mentioned earlier, they leave quite the paper trail buying thousands of rounds for AK's, being a motorcycle club and repair shop.
Having unmarked ammo in large quantities in what is relatively a short time is much preferred to buying rounds at gun shows and stores.
Tig's been slowly falling apart all season long. Once he and Gemma started he finally hit rock bottom and realized he had no idea of who he was anymore. Tig thinks of himself as a dashing outlaw not as a murderer of women and betrayer of friends.
He dealt with his guilt by seeking out punishment. He had a pretty clear idea of what Opie would do when he said what he said and Tig did absolutely nothing to defend himself.
The thing is that Tig is not a strong man. He's the muscle, a task man, the Sergeant at Arms, a follower, even a yes man. But he's not strong. When he's faced with something that is actually morally troubling, he doesn't know how to handle it, and can get very confused. He'll still carry out the action, but can be left conflicted and unsure, and with something as big as accidentally killing a club member's wife it will eat away at him. As Bobby said, Tig is blind action, but it doesn't mean it doesn't affect him. It just means that he doesn't think about it before hand but it can really eat at him otherwise. Tig is probably the most immature of the characters on the show.
I view Tig as taking his morality directly from the club. The club clearly has ways you should act and ways you shouldn't and he throws himself into it wholeheartedly. Now he's clearly done this and clearly fucked up (the club doesn't screw with women, doesn't screw with it's own members and sure as fuck doesn't gun down innocents.) So where he'd normally just put down any feelings of guilt with justifications like "He was a cop" or "They threatened the club" he doesn't any of those options available to him with the Donna thing. Add in that Opie is acting like how Tig thinks it's right to act....
Tig's been slowly falling apart all season long. Once he and Gemma started he finally hit rock bottom and realized he had no idea of who he was anymore. Tig thinks of himself as a dashing outlaw not as a murderer of women and betrayer of friends.
He dealt with his guilt by seeking out punishment. He had a pretty clear idea of what Opie would do when he said what he said and Tig did absolutely nothing to defend himself.
The thing is that Tig is not a strong man. He's the muscle, a task man, the Sergeant at Arms, a follower, even a yes man. But he's not strong. When he's faced with something that is actually morally troubling, he doesn't know how to handle it, and can get very confused. He'll still carry out the action, but can be left conflicted and unsure, and with something as big as accidentally killing a club member's wife it will eat away at him. As Bobby said, Tig is blind action, but it doesn't mean it doesn't affect him. It just means that he doesn't think about it before hand but it can really eat at him otherwise. Tig is probably the most immature of the characters on the show.
I view Tig as taking his morality directly from the club. The club clearly has ways you should act and ways you shouldn't and he throws himself into it wholeheartedly. Now he's clearly done this and clearly fucked up (the club doesn't screw with women, doesn't screw with it's own members and sure as fuck doesn't gun down innocents.) So where he'd normally just put down any feelings of guilt with justifications like "He was a cop" or "They threatened the club" he doesn't any of those options available to him with the Donna thing. Add in that Opie is acting like how Tig thinks it's right to act....
Additionally it was pointed out in season one that Tig always gets the dirty work and it has an effect on him.
Just rewatched this weeks ep with the housemate who missed it, reminded me of something which was said almost in passing which made me wonder, how big do you guy's think the Sons are?
I've always thought of them as being a stand-in for the Hell's Angels but this weeks meeting with the Irish really drove it home. When Clay says something about pulling the Son's support in Ireland and homeboy (who's name escapes me at the moment) immediately backed down and said he was out of line, it reminded me how much of an international organization the Hell's Angels (and the Son's as their proxy) actually are.
I don't know that the SoA is supposed to be a proxy for the Hell's Angels, as much as they're just meant to be a mid- to large-sized outlaw motorcycle club. Most of the larger ones are at least somewhat international (into Canada and the UK, and some into mainland Europe) so it wouldn't surprise me if the SoA were as well.
In general though I get the feeling that they're actually on the smaller side of that "mid to large" scale...they just don't feel as "big" as I imagine the Hell's Angels or any of the other really large clubs. So rather than a few thousand members, you're probably looking at more like several hundred members (up to a thousand or so), spread across a handful of states in the west with a few token charters back east and overseas.
I read somewhere that the Sons of Anarchy are based on the Sons of Silence MC. After watching the Gangland episode on History Channel about them, it made sense in that the founder was more anti organized crime but the club just went that way as time went on.
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Captain Ultralow resolution pictures of birdsRegistered Userregular
I don't know that the SoA is supposed to be a proxy for the Hell's Angels, as much as they're just meant to be a mid- to large-sized outlaw motorcycle club. Most of the larger ones are at least somewhat international (into Canada and the UK, and some into mainland Europe) so it wouldn't surprise me if the SoA were as well.
I know in the first episode, Happy, who's in town, tells Clay that no charter has any stock of AKs, and he says "No one has stock. Oregon, Las Vegas, Tahoma, Vancouver," so they do have at least one Canadian charter.
I'm trying to decide what Clay's omission of the "to color" in his recounting of the story means.
It means that he realized that Zobell's threat was never about race - it was about keeping guns in his crew's hands for protecting the heroin trade. I could be remembering it wrong, though - maybe Clay said that before the SoA pieced it together.
Alright, I'm leaving my first line there, I was typing the below in notepad while I watched since I didn't want to spoil myself....
LEM! Not so good that he seems to be at odds with Tig, things don't tend to look good for people like that.
HOLY SHIT WESTON. Fuck fuck fuck. That was harsh. Shooting the random women in the room too?
Jax/Weston face off....fucking awesome.
Ok, this is the episode of people being bad asses. Just watched the doctor beat the shit out of administrative director. Crap.
So the club was frustrated in achieving their goals but it probably worked out better for them in the end that way. I have trouble seeing how Zoebell doesn't get shanked in prison though.
Alright, I'm leaving my first line there, I was typing the below in notepad while I watched since I didn't want to spoil myself....
LEM! Not so good that he seems to be at odds with Tig, things don't tend to look good for people like that.
HOLY SHIT WESTON. Fuck fuck fuck. That was harsh. Shooting the random women in the room too?
Jax/Weston face off....fucking awesome.
Ok, this is the episode of people being bad asses. Just watched the doctor beat the shit out of administrative director. Crap.
So the club was frustrated in achieving their goals but it probably worked out better for them in the end that way. I have trouble seeing how Zoebell doesn't get shanked in prison though.
I'm not entirely sure that Zoebell getting shanked in prison isn't the objective. "There are no laws being broken, and there *will be* no laws broken." Then BAM, Zoebell starts squealing about posessing enough heroin to supply a prison bloc. The 10v10 was deliberately planned to be within Charming city limits, and the sherriff was very careful to tell his deputy that their business was Charming, and nowhere else. Probably the only unsubtle and conniving event in the episode was Tara putting the admin in her place.
Alright, I'm leaving my first line there, I was typing the below in notepad while I watched since I didn't want to spoil myself....
LEM! Not so good that he seems to be at odds with Tig, things don't tend to look good for people like that.
HOLY SHIT WESTON. Fuck fuck fuck. That was harsh. Shooting the random women in the room too?
Jax/Weston face off....fucking awesome.
Ok, this is the episode of people being bad asses. Just watched the doctor beat the shit out of administrative director. Crap.
So the club was frustrated in achieving their goals but it probably worked out better for them in the end that way. I have trouble seeing how Zoebell doesn't get shanked in prison though.
I'm not entirely sure that Zoebell getting shanked in prison isn't the objective. "There are no laws being broken, and there *will be* no laws broken." Then BAM, Zoebell starts squealing about posessing enough heroin to supply a prison bloc. The 10v10 was deliberately planned to be within Charming city limits, and the sherriff was very careful to tell his deputy that their business was Charming, and nowhere else. Probably the only unsubtle and conniving event in the episode was Tara putting the admin in her place.
Which, by the way, was hawt.
Completely possible though I thought Jax and Clay looked disappointed when Zoebell was taken into custody. They want much worse for him and Weston and they both want it to come from Sam Crow. I'll have to rewatch.
I'm not positive that Zoebell is really going to get shanked, it'll depend upon how Alveress and the Mayans react to what's coming next. Nevermind what it would do to his "street cred" to be guarded by Brown.
Though if this whole thing ends up with Otto shanking Zoebell and watching him bleed out then I think it'll be alright with everybody...
Oh, and I thought it was cool they answered my internal question regarding half-sack before I even asked it. He'd been hanging around for quite some time and done quite a bit of pretty stupid shit for the club, was wondering when he'd earn his patch.
Otto can't really watch anyone do anything anymore
I'm not 100% on Jax/Clay looking disappointed. I remember Jax smiling for a second although maybe it was more of an "aw damnit" grimace rather than a smile can't remember.
Alright, I'm leaving my first line there, I was typing the below in notepad while I watched since I didn't want to spoil myself....
LEM! Not so good that he seems to be at odds with Tig, things don't tend to look good for people like that.
HOLY SHIT WESTON. Fuck fuck fuck. That was harsh. Shooting the random women in the room too?
Jax/Weston face off....fucking awesome.
Ok, this is the episode of people being bad asses. Just watched the doctor beat the shit out of administrative director. Crap.
So the club was frustrated in achieving their goals but it probably worked out better for them in the end that way. I have trouble seeing how Zoebell doesn't get shanked in prison though.
I'm not entirely sure that Zoebell getting shanked in prison isn't the objective. "There are no laws being broken, and there *will be* no laws broken." Then BAM, Zoebell starts squealing about posessing enough heroin to supply a prison bloc. The 10v10 was deliberately planned to be within Charming city limits, and the sherriff was very careful to tell his deputy that their business was Charming, and nowhere else. Probably the only unsubtle and conniving event in the episode was Tara putting the admin in her place.
Which, by the way, was hawt.
Zobell controls the heroin trade in the prisons now, I doubt he'd run into much trouble being inside with people he supplies. Though to be honest I don't think he'll be showing up in prison at all, either via lawyer intervention or SAMCRO.
Alright, I'm leaving my first line there, I was typing the below in notepad while I watched since I didn't want to spoil myself....
LEM! Not so good that he seems to be at odds with Tig, things don't tend to look good for people like that.
HOLY SHIT WESTON. Fuck fuck fuck. That was harsh. Shooting the random women in the room too?
Jax/Weston face off....fucking awesome.
Ok, this is the episode of people being bad asses. Just watched the doctor beat the shit out of administrative director. Crap.
So the club was frustrated in achieving their goals but it probably worked out better for them in the end that way. I have trouble seeing how Zoebell doesn't get shanked in prison though.
I'm not entirely sure that Zoebell getting shanked in prison isn't the objective. "There are no laws being broken, and there *will be* no laws broken." Then BAM, Zoebell starts squealing about posessing enough heroin to supply a prison bloc. The 10v10 was deliberately planned to be within Charming city limits, and the sherriff was very careful to tell his deputy that their business was Charming, and nowhere else. Probably the only unsubtle and conniving event in the episode was Tara putting the admin in her place.
Which, by the way, was hawt.
"You're not just some Croweater, you're Jax Teller's old lady. People need to show you respect."
Oh, and I thought it was cool they answered my internal question regarding half-sack before I even asked it. He'd been hanging around for quite some time and done quite a bit of pretty stupid shit for the club, was wondering when he'd earn his patch.
I'd been wondering that since he put his ass on the line for Clay (while Tig cowered) when they were stealing the guns from Henry Rollins back at the beginning of the season.
Alright, I'm leaving my first line there, I was typing the below in notepad while I watched since I didn't want to spoil myself....
LEM! Not so good that he seems to be at odds with Tig, things don't tend to look good for people like that.
HOLY SHIT WESTON. Fuck fuck fuck. That was harsh. Shooting the random women in the room too?
Jax/Weston face off....fucking awesome.
Ok, this is the episode of people being bad asses. Just watched the doctor beat the shit out of administrative director. Crap.
So the club was frustrated in achieving their goals but it probably worked out better for them in the end that way. I have trouble seeing how Zoebell doesn't get shanked in prison though.
I'm not entirely sure that Zoebell getting shanked in prison isn't the objective. "There are no laws being broken, and there *will be* no laws broken." Then BAM, Zoebell starts squealing about posessing enough heroin to supply a prison bloc. The 10v10 was deliberately planned to be within Charming city limits, and the sherriff was very careful to tell his deputy that their business was Charming, and nowhere else. Probably the only unsubtle and conniving event in the episode was Tara putting the admin in her place.
Which, by the way, was hawt.
"You're not just some Croweater, you're Jax Teller's old lady. People need to show you respect."
"No, THIS is assault."
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Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Oh God, so far we've had Dutch-boy and Lem show up. I think David Rees Snell needs to be a part of this show. So does Goggins.
Interviewer: You had Jay Karnes in the first season. Has there been any other talk of recruiting other “Shield” alumni?
Kurt Sutter: You know what? I actually have. I have brought back Kenny Johnson; he’s in episode twelve. And I love Kenny. I would get emails from Kenny, like, constantly saying, “Please put me on a show with balls, please put me on show with balls.” (Laughs) So he plays this little cameo in twelve, and we’ll see if we can make some kind of deal with him. But I would love to bring him back for at least a three or four episode arc in season three.
Interviewer: You had Jay Karnes in the first season. Has there been any other talk of recruiting other “Shield” alumni?
Kurt Sutter: You know what? I actually have. I have brought back Kenny Johnson; he’s in episode twelve. And I love Kenny. I would get emails from Kenny, like, constantly saying, “Please put me on a show with balls, please put me on show with balls.” (Laughs) So he plays this little cameo in twelve, and we’ll see if we can make some kind of deal with him. But I would love to bring him back for at least a three or four episode arc in season three.
Maybe they're planning on having Otto stab zoebell somehow since he wants revenge the most. Everybody is rooting for him especially since he's been screwed the worst probably.
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Amikron DevaliaI didn't ask for this title.Registered Userregular
Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Hmmm.... since they had Lem's evil twin do a cameo, I would love to see Ronnie show up next season. Maybe set up as an antagonist struggling to set up a life in charming and generally fucking shit up for the sons.
Ronnie was smart. I could see him getting off on all counts because they had nothing on him other than Vic's sworn statement. I was really sad he went down the way he did.
oh wait, did we ever resolve who killed otto's wife? Was it tom arnold for sure. I can't remember right now.
Losing an eye and having your wife beat to death is pretty fucked up, but if those are two different people then I agree Gemma probably should get the honor.
oh wait, did we ever resolve who killed otto's wife? Was it tom arnold for sure. I can't remember right now.
Losing an eye and having your wife beat to death is pretty fucked up, but if those are two different people then I agree Gemma probably should get the honor.
Yeah, they made a point of letting us know he'd left the country the day after she died.
Amikron DevaliaI didn't ask for this title.Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
I would normally agree but it wasn't exactly "just rape". Not saying getting your eye stabbed till it no longer exists and your wife killed isn't bad, just think that there's a large difference in the two actions.
Though both involved a rather large group of sweaty guys beating someone badly and then doing horrible things to said person. Also he apparently can see somewhat out of his other eye as noted by his looking towards Jax while talking with him.
You can get a prosthetic eye, and soon enough you may even be able to get one that "sees" for you, but you can't get a prosthetic not-rape.
Dude we are years/decades from the average joe getting a working artificial eye that does anything more than see light/dark. We are a hell of a long way from some poor blind slob in prison getting a working artificial eye.
I'll take gang rape over gang beating/blinding every time.
He can see somewhat out of the already damaged eye.
Finally got around to watching the most recent episode. I was getting so pumped throughout the whole thing with Tara keeping her hand strong and the music, but fuck me what a let down.
The idea that it could be part of a larger plan is plausible, but what I wanted to see was gross bodily harm.
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Having unmarked ammo in large quantities in what is relatively a short time is much preferred to buying rounds at gun shows and stores.
I don't know that the SoA is supposed to be a proxy for the Hell's Angels, as much as they're just meant to be a mid- to large-sized outlaw motorcycle club. Most of the larger ones are at least somewhat international (into Canada and the UK, and some into mainland Europe) so it wouldn't surprise me if the SoA were as well.
In general though I get the feeling that they're actually on the smaller side of that "mid to large" scale...they just don't feel as "big" as I imagine the Hell's Angels or any of the other really large clubs. So rather than a few thousand members, you're probably looking at more like several hundred members (up to a thousand or so), spread across a handful of states in the west with a few token charters back east and overseas.
I know in the first episode, Happy, who's in town, tells Clay that no charter has any stock of AKs, and he says "No one has stock. Oregon, Las Vegas, Tahoma, Vancouver," so they do have at least one Canadian charter.
And according to the official site They have a couple in the UK and Europe.
HOLY SHIT WESTON. Fuck fuck fuck. That was harsh. Shooting the random women in the room too?
Jax/Weston face off....fucking awesome.
Ok, this is the episode of people being bad asses. Just watched the doctor beat the shit out of administrative director. Crap.
So the club was frustrated in achieving their goals but it probably worked out better for them in the end that way. I have trouble seeing how Zoebell doesn't get shanked in prison though.
Which, by the way, was hawt.
I'm not positive that Zoebell is really going to get shanked, it'll depend upon how Alveress and the Mayans react to what's coming next. Nevermind what it would do to his "street cred" to be guarded by Brown.
Though if this whole thing ends up with Otto shanking Zoebell and watching him bleed out then I think it'll be alright with everybody...
I'm not 100% on Jax/Clay looking disappointed. I remember Jax smiling for a second although maybe it was more of an "aw damnit" grimace rather than a smile can't remember.
Still, he's pretty well screwed over. So sad.
"You're not just some Croweater, you're Jax Teller's old lady. People need to show you respect."
I'd been wondering that since he put his ass on the line for Clay (while Tig cowered) when they were stealing the guns from Henry Rollins back at the beginning of the season.
"No, THIS is assault."
And if Chiklis shows up in any capacity...
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
http://www.bullz-eye.com/television/interviews/2009/kurt_sutter.htm
Hell yes
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Ronnie was smart. I could see him getting off on all counts because they had nothing on him other than Vic's sworn statement. I was really sad he went down the way he did.
oh wait, did we ever resolve who killed otto's wife? Was it tom arnold for sure. I can't remember right now.
Losing an eye and having your wife beat to death is pretty fucked up, but if those are two different people then I agree Gemma probably should get the honor.
Yeah, they made a point of letting us know he'd left the country the day after she died.
Tough call I'd say...
I'd actually probably take rape once a week for a year over blindness since being able to see is required for pretty much everything I enjoy doing :P
This is a very strange topic.
Fixed that for you. Let us get back to our Bromance now.
Though both involved a rather large group of sweaty guys beating someone badly and then doing horrible things to said person. Also he apparently can see somewhat out of his other eye as noted by his looking towards Jax while talking with him.
Dude we are years/decades from the average joe getting a working artificial eye that does anything more than see light/dark. We are a hell of a long way from some poor blind slob in prison getting a working artificial eye.
I'll take gang rape over gang beating/blinding every time.
He can see somewhat out of the already damaged eye.
The idea that it could be part of a larger plan is plausible, but what I wanted to see was gross bodily harm.