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Dilemmas of the Ethical and Moral Kind Dealing With Making Money and Being Honest
Fuzz
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Suddenly thrust into the world of cameras and the taking of pictures I have gathered a bit o' skill which I have come to realize that people will, surprisingly, pay me money for.
I, of course, am speaking of photoshoots.
Facebook has been a blessing in that I am suddenly getting attention from people, people I don't even know, who want me to take my $100 lens to crazy locations based solely on "that one cool picture with the colors I saw on so-and-so's facebook."
So, here is my dilemma.
Toward the end of the year I have agreed to be shipped to Miami (6-8 hour drive away) for a three-day photoshoot of a very nice young lady who just wants to be a star.
"Now, what's the problem with that?" says you. Well, this girl wants to be a singer.
It just so happens that I am not only a photographer (hardly) but also a musician (verily)
Not only that, my contact to the girl is a dear friend of mine who is majoring in music. The both of us agree that this girl just isn't cut out for the big time.
So.. I wonder..
Do I keep my mouth shut, decide that I was hired as a photographer and not as a music critic, allow this girl to spend thousands on makeup and dresses, site rentals, music production costs, me and anything else I don't know about?
Or do I blow my chance at adding something to my portfolio and furthering my career?
I, of course, am speaking of photoshoots.
Facebook has been a blessing in that I am suddenly getting attention from people, people I don't even know, who want me to take my $100 lens to crazy locations based solely on "that one cool picture with the colors I saw on so-and-so's facebook."
So, here is my dilemma.
Toward the end of the year I have agreed to be shipped to Miami (6-8 hour drive away) for a three-day photoshoot of a very nice young lady who just wants to be a star.
"Now, what's the problem with that?" says you. Well, this girl wants to be a singer.
It just so happens that I am not only a photographer (hardly) but also a musician (verily)
Not only that, my contact to the girl is a dear friend of mine who is majoring in music. The both of us agree that this girl just isn't cut out for the big time.
So.. I wonder..
Do I keep my mouth shut, decide that I was hired as a photographer and not as a music critic, allow this girl to spend thousands on makeup and dresses, site rentals, music production costs, me and anything else I don't know about?
Or do I blow my chance at adding something to my portfolio and furthering my career?
Fuzz on
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The question you should ask is whether you're comfortable with people self-deceiving (or perhaps not) themselves to make themselves happy. Remember, you don't know this girl well, nor do you have any vested interest in whether she pursues music or not.
Most headshot and portfolio work is going to be for people who aren't successful, by definition; many more headshots and tapes are in casting director and A&R people's vaults than there are big-time actors or singer-songwriters.
If you think for some reason she'll listen to you, that's one thing and i'd tend more towards the "crush her dreams" approach than the "well, her odds of making it are nonzero so let her spend any sum of money on it.". And you don't have to fleece her. But just telling her: "you're going to fail" is more likely to provoke anger and the hiring of a different photographer than a dramatic life re-assessment.
I think my ethical calculus would be swayed by how much income she and her family have. Is she selling a kidney to pay for the shoot?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Is this how the world works? People just using other people?
It's so sad..
Maybe don't say anything? You're there to take photos. And, yes, lying to protect people's feelings is generally a part of being in the world. If everyone told the truth all the time, there'd be a lot more fights, and a lot more unhappy people.
Everyone wants something from everyone else. There's nothing wrong with that.
She does specifically ask for it. I just nod and say "I like the bass." While my friend says "You've got a.. powerful voice."
Did she ask what you think?
If yes, tell her.
If not, why say anything? You weren't asked.
EDIT: So she does ask. Then personally yeah, I'd tell her. But me being who I am have absolutely no penchant with bullshitting people simply due to the fact that I would rather someone be honest and potentialyl scathing than just smiling and nodding. If you're afraid of the answer, don't ask the question.
I suppose auto-tune would fix some of it..
She did ask, but I don't think she knows that my friend and I are both musically talented.
If you've got an issue with it, and it seems you do, why not just back out of the job? Don't say anything negative regarding her music, give her money back, and go home?
Because at the end of the day he's hired to take pictures. Unless you find her poor talent morally objectionable, why are you letting this potentially conflict with your business? Like I said, if she asks, tell her, because she fucking asked. It's only an issue if either of you make it one.
If she's confident in her choice she'll take your opinion for what it is and continue. Don't actively hide your opinions if you're being directly asked for them, but don't be an idiot and make her talent and your opinion of it impact the pictures you're taking of her. The two have literally nothing to do with one another.
Well..
I guess I just want to know if I should feel like a dick for doing that to someone. Knowingly steering them in the wrong direction for personal gain..
Does she seem the type who would fire you for having a dissenting opinion?
But you're not steering her in any direction. You're taking pictures of her as per your contract. She seems to already have an agent, and enough money for a photo shoot, and you mention a studio, so it seems to me that she's got plenty of direction from them. You're just there to take the pictures, don't overthink it.
I'll keep "I was hired as a photographer" in mind and make sure to bring my iPod on the long ride to Miami with her.
Then be tactful. Tell her you don't care for the genre.
From the concerts I've been to, a hell of a lot of professional musicians sing out of key when they're not in the studio and have the ability to do a song over and over until they get it right.
take your pics
get your cash
On the other hand - this woman has her dream. It may be a crap dream that is going to waste her time and money but I suspect unless she gives it a go she will always regret it. So I don't think being a very small part of that is going to make you a worse person. You are not her agent or someone encouraging her, you are providing a very small technical position as a one off and the consequences of your actions are that she will have photos.
Maybe you're the ones who are wrong :P
Keep your mouth shut and do the job. It's the same as in any other line of work. Sometimes you need to keep the guys that sign the cheques happy, you know?
Even if my boss's putting sucks I'm not going to tell him that. He loves golf (and spends a lot in membership fees)
There's a line between being polite and actively encouraging her for selfish reasons. I think your role here is to just be polite, and say you like the bass.
I'm an actor and if someone other than the director or a fellow actor (and in a lot of cases they shouldn't even do it, but they can tell me I need to give them more of X to help them do Y) approached me to tell me I didn't do a good job (first of all, they better go into more detail so I know what they are talking about and what I can change if its even in my ability), well they can fuck right off because who are they to have that type of opinion on this project? And you know what? Every one knows that. It's not the grip's job to coach me unless it has been previously determined that it is his job. Maybe the grip has acting training and can push me in the right direction, well then the grip needs to talk to the director. The director can then approach me or say "hey, Imp, come talk to Grip for a minute".
I'm quite fucking good at improvisation and when I see a lot of people perform I get really critical. I start to get inside their head, figure out where they are going, gauge their ability at story telling and staying in the moment...
It's not my place to tell them how bad or even how good they were, I'm not coaching them or leading a workshop. Even if they asked me, "hey, how'd you like it?" I probably wouldn't go into extreme detail unless I knew the person and knew that they knew my background.
If you aren't in a position where you have the inate right to be critical, you need to wait until you are asked or approach the person in charge. You don't approach the talent with this shit. Odds are, unless you know the person in charge and they know you, they too well tell you to fuck off.
Maybe if the agent is making her pay him despite not getting her any work should you say something, maybe. But then you've got to be careful of any bridges you are burning.
That said, if she flat out asks you again, you don't have to pull a 180 and gush. Say that that style of music isn't really your thing. Or like you said, pick out a part of it you do like. Just don't consider it a moral obligation to go up to her and say, "Listen hun, you're not right for this scene." If that's the truth, she'll hear it from the people who have to tell her. If it isn't, well, she'll be in the music business.
Shit, even if she was your sister I think it'd still be more polite to keep your opinions to yourself. Unless you're footing the bill for this attempted career I really don't see why you should get involved.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
1. She has the right to try in the music biz until she wants to give up
2. She has the money to pay someone (you) to make her look good
3. She is presumably an adult
4. Lady Gaga.
Take the pictures, dude.
I host a podcast about movies.
How would you feel if the roles were reversed?
I'm sorry if you didn't intend it but this did fire me up quite a bit. I may not be pursuing a career in music, but that doesn't mean I don't understand a whole lot more about music than a guy who can buy recording equipment and call it a "studio" and a girl who is skilled at getting people together.
I'm talking bad American Idol audition material here (she actually did go to American Idol and *gasp* didn't make the cut)
I know there are exceptions, like that william hung fellow, but come on.
That's different. Lady Gaga is actually talented:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwdXnlvUe3I
I can take a critique. Hell, I'd be glad if someone were downright honest with me. I hate when people patronize me, I just feel like I'll never get better if people go: "Oh yeah, that's good enough."
Get paid and forget about it. She's not your problem.
As for the girl, just because she sucks now, it doesn't mean she'll suck forever. Eminem was pretty terrible before Dr. Dre got a hold of him (and after too, but he became successful). She might be talented enough to get work in some small form. Not to mention that there is more to being a successful performer than raw talent alone. Her money and ability to communicate will open some doors for her. If you want to help her get better, you could make some constructive suggestions. If she crashes and burns, so be it. Lesson learned.
"You're the help." That's good advice. Don't try to run her life for her, or save her, or something.
It's bad to lie, but if I told her the truth she'd do it anyway and I wouldn't get paid, so I guess hiding my opinion is the best option.
So yeah, I get it.
1): It is absolutely not your place to criticize her musical potential. Doing so would be incredibly unprofessional and word would get around.
2): Be it ever so humble, there's no ass like your own.
This young woman is not engaging you for advice. She believes she has a chance to do something, and all she needs from you is for you to apply your skill in photography to making pretty pictures of her. You don't need to feel guilty, because you are filling exactly the desire she has for you.
Most people suck and aren't smart. If we didn't make money off those people it'd be a small market.