Ah, that's right Keith. Everything I know about Cry for Justice or the current state of the Arrows comes from reading bits and pieces of previews and such online, so I forgot about that.
And yes TLB, You make compelling arguments for spectral investigators.
remember when DC was all "SOMETHING NEW" and cool people were like "AWESOME" and fat old dudes were like "NOT WHAT I READ WHEN I WAS 8" then DC went back to the status quo?
Wasn't that one of the things that pissed Waid off? That he thought he'd get to do a Ghost Detectives book after 52, and editorial nixed it?
Honestly, I never really saw the potential in the idea, and even when Ralph and Sue were used as ghosts, they were just given Deadman powers. I think it'd have been more interesting to have Sue dead and Ralph alive but able to see and speak to her ghost, who would help him in investigations. But they'd never be able to touch, unless it was through a surrogate Sue.
Basically, Pushing Daisies. Except it would get canceled after one arc instead of two seasons.
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited April 2010
I did like this from James Robinson at the DC Writers Panel
They also all love reading each other’s comics, with Robinson saying, “Pisses me off when comic writers say they don’t read comics. I read every DC book.”
which is extra funny to me because I think I remember Jimmy Palmiotti (who was on the same panel) saying that he doesn't read many comics.
And it pisses me off when writers say that, too. Like, a) show some respect to your peers and the craft, b) help tell better stories by working with what's been done, and c) know what's been done.
Plus the same creators will talk about every movie that just came out and the fifty TV series they watch per week and then claim they don't have time to read comics
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I did like this from James Robinson at the DC Writers Panel
They also all love reading each other’s comics, with Robinson saying, “Pisses me off when comic writers say they don’t read comics. I read every DC book.”
which is extra funny to me because I think I remember Jimmy Palmiotti (who was on the same panel) saying that he doesn't read many comics.
And it pisses me off when writers say that, too. Like, a) show some respect to your peers and the craft, b) help tell better stories by working with what's been done, and c) know what's been done.
Plus the same creators will talk about every movie that just came out and the fifty TV series they watch per week and then claim they don't have time to read comics
Writers should be reading the other stuff at the company just to see what they need to do to in terms of syncing things up, because heck if the editors will actually do their job. That's just terrible logic, like Toyota doesn't need to see what Honda is doing or Pepsi compared to Coke.
The only one in the process who doesn't have to read the books is the artist, because they have script as well as there work taking naturally longer than a writer.
But I remember in the years where Robinson was talking about Cry For Justice before it came out, he talked about how it was going to redeem the Prometheus character and make him a bigger player in the DC Universe. And having the character die doesn't really accomplish that, so yeah... it'll be Prometheus, unfortunately. I think there was a cool character in Prometheus when he first appeared, but I don't think he can be saved after all the crap that came after.
Yeah, after Keith posted I remembered that Prometheus' body disappeared.
And where does Prometheus live?
The Ghost Zone.
Prometheus, Ghost Detective coming soon to a comic shop near you.
His body didn't disappear. Hal and Barry found it (thanks to Shade) and brought it to Dinah and Green Arrow
His helmet disappeared. His helmet that stores knowledge.
So basically he comes back in someone else's body, and it's like he never died at all because there have already been two Prometheuses and nobody could tell the difference between them.
And it pisses me off when writers say that, too. Like, a) show some respect to your peers and the craft, b) help tell better stories by working with what's been done, and c) know what's been done.
Plus the same creators will talk about every movie that just came out and the fifty TV series they watch per week and then claim they don't have time to read comics
I laughed when I read the coverage for the Darwyn Cooke panel right after the Robinson one, and Cooke stated that he doesn't read comics anymore.
I understand the mentality. For some people it's just a job, and they just want to collect their paycheck and be known as a working artist/writer. Plus, Marvel and DC no longer comp their employees free comics.
But while I understand the mentality, I really don't like it. As you said people need to know what's going on. If more writers did, maybe we wouldn't get the same stories repeated over and over, or have characters behaving unlike how they've traditionally been portrayed.
And really, I don't know how comic creators expect people to care about comics when they don't.
But while I understand the mentality, I really don't like it. As you said people need to know what's going on. If more writers did, maybe we wouldn't get the same stories repeated over and over, or have characters behaving unlike how they've traditionally been portrayed.
I think that that's better dealt with through research and a high quality standard than simply reading a ton of comics every week, most of which you won't personally enjoy. Cliched writing in particular is more a consequence of being an uninspired hack than ignorance of the cliches themselves. It's not as though comic writers are accidentally retreading good storylines. Rather, they're revisiting concepts that weren't compelling to begin with, and they do so because they're as lazy and predictable as the people who made them cliches in the first place.
The writer revealed more behind the scenes information about "Cry For Justice," explaining that originally, DC wanted to get rid of most of their fictional cities (not Metropolis or Gotham obviously). He disagreed with the idea and didn’t do it, feeling the fictional cities of the DC Universe should be embraced; they make the fictional world more unique.
It's like DC hates everything about their universe that I love. I like that there are all these fictional cities like Fawcett, Hub, or Vanity. Not just because they give each hero their own space to operate in, but because they can reflect the fictional universe, rather than our own reality, and still be viable locations. Marvel's never going to make grand, sweeping changes to New York, because it would stop being "real," nevermind all the guys in tights flying around.
That... How do these people even get jobs at DC? What was the interview process?
Random guy at Warner: "So do you like the DC Universe?"
Didio: "I love it! Well except for nearly everything in it."
Random guy at Warner: "I don't give a shit, you're hired!"
I also saw this piece in the Johns spotlight:
Johns then spoke about his and Gary Frank's ongoing series of Batman Earth One graphic novels that will look at the Batman mythology in new light, starting from day one. "Our Alfred is a little more gruff and grumble, and you'll see why," Johns said. "He never intended to be a butler, he hates wearing suits and he has a big attitude problem." The first book will feature a new villain, while the second will feature the Riddler. And he noted his Batman wouldn't be as good at his job as the regular DCU one.
John's obviously doesn't have the same level of hero worship for Batman as someone like Grant Morrison does. As long as it's written well I'll give Batman: Earth 1 a shot.
If Johns thinks he's going to shock us by having Bruce almost die in an alleyway, I'll give up right there.
On the other hand, having Bruce make an incorrect deduction and aid in the apprehension and conviction of an innocent man would make for a decent storyline.
And if so, is it being haunted by the living, or by another super-ghost?
no see picture a combination of The Funky Phantom and Band of Brothers
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited April 2010
new chalkboard
"And the Lord taketh away" is the storyline for Generation Lost (Maxwell Lord erasing knowledge of his existence)
Look inside the Suit is where Dick Grayson left his phone
The Time Pool is Deadly is obviously talking about the Deadpool/Booster Gold crossover
"And the Lord taketh away" is the storyline for Generation Lost (Maxwell Lord erasing knowledge of his existence)
Look inside the Suit is where Dick Grayson left his phone The Time Pool is Deadly is obviously talking about the Deadpool/Booster Gold crossover
The what now? Deadpool in a DC crossover comic? That is funny stuff, at this point you just know he's being put in everything to inspire nerd rage on forums.
The New Gods are already alive, on Earth-51. Darkseid himself is meant to be dead but it doesn't specifically say he's alive, just that it's one of his plans (Libra's still alive after all).
Or DC editorial will just decide to retcon/ignore Final Crisis because hey, making continuity confusing seems to be their job.
On the other hand, having Bruce make an incorrect deduction and aid in the apprehension and conviction of an innocent man would make for a decent storyline.
It's much more interesting than "You just blew a six month undercover! Jerk!"
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
On the other hand, having Bruce make an incorrect deduction and aid in the apprehension and conviction of an innocent man would make for a decent storyline.
It's much more interesting than "You just blew a six month undercover! Jerk!"
There is nothing more interesting than that - don't you watch CSI?
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
C2E2 panel:
The next fan commented about "Cry for Justice" and questioned the wisdom of using "the death of a little girl" as a catalyst. "We never said we were getting rid of grim and gritty," DiDio said, addressing another of the fan's complaints, "and I don't think we're doing grim and gritty--we're doing storytelling." He said that the emotional reaction means the story worked.
What is grimmer and grittier than having a character get an arm ripped off and then having his daughter die?
I don't think anyone's actually had an emotional reaction to the story. If the death had been warranted, people would have sadly accepted it, but because it was so senseless and couched in a subpar story people have universally derided and rejected it. That's not a matter of emotion, but rather taste.
I don't think anyone's actually had an emotional reaction to the story. If the death had been warranted, people would have sadly accepted it, but because it was so senseless and couched in a subpar story people have universally derided and rejected it. That's not a matter of emotion, but rather taste.
No you see, you have an emotional reaction to someone shitting in your mouth. It's still valid!
I don't think anyone's actually had an emotional reaction to the story. If the death had been warranted, people would have sadly accepted it, but because it was so senseless and couched in a subpar story people have universally derided and rejected it. That's not a matter of emotion, but rather taste.
It was just done so horribly, it read like a gimmick and there was no reason to have any sort of emmotional reaction to it. If you want to see the proper way to kill a child for something other than shock value, read the first arc of the new Punisher MAX book and compare it to what was done in Cry for Justice.
I was thinking about the whole Prometheus/Green Arrow thing and I just realized no one did a damn thing when Wonder Woman snapped Maxwell Lord's neck. Superman and Batman just stayed pissed at her for a couple of months and eventually got over it.
I understand that Max was mind controlling Superman at the time and Prometheus was just chatting on his cell phone or something. But, Prometheus did mention he had city destroying devices in a bunch of other cities so.......
I don't know, honestly I think the whole superheroes shouldn't kill thing is kinda dumb in these situations.
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And yes TLB, You make compelling arguments for spectral investigators.
Tumblr Twitter
And if so, is it being haunted by the living, or by another super-ghost?
Tumblr Twitter
Honestly, I never really saw the potential in the idea, and even when Ralph and Sue were used as ghosts, they were just given Deadman powers. I think it'd have been more interesting to have Sue dead and Ralph alive but able to see and speak to her ghost, who would help him in investigations. But they'd never be able to touch, unless it was through a surrogate Sue.
Basically, Pushing Daisies. Except it would get canceled after one arc instead of two seasons.
Tumblr Twitter
which is extra funny to me because I think I remember Jimmy Palmiotti (who was on the same panel) saying that he doesn't read many comics.
And it pisses me off when writers say that, too. Like, a) show some respect to your peers and the craft, b) help tell better stories by working with what's been done, and c) know what's been done.
Plus the same creators will talk about every movie that just came out and the fifty TV series they watch per week and then claim they don't have time to read comics
Writers should be reading the other stuff at the company just to see what they need to do to in terms of syncing things up, because heck if the editors will actually do their job. That's just terrible logic, like Toyota doesn't need to see what Honda is doing or Pepsi compared to Coke.
The only one in the process who doesn't have to read the books is the artist, because they have script as well as there work taking naturally longer than a writer.
His helmet disappeared. His helmet that stores knowledge.
So basically he comes back in someone else's body, and it's like he never died at all because there have already been two Prometheuses and nobody could tell the difference between them.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I understand the mentality. For some people it's just a job, and they just want to collect their paycheck and be known as a working artist/writer. Plus, Marvel and DC no longer comp their employees free comics.
But while I understand the mentality, I really don't like it. As you said people need to know what's going on. If more writers did, maybe we wouldn't get the same stories repeated over and over, or have characters behaving unlike how they've traditionally been portrayed.
And really, I don't know how comic creators expect people to care about comics when they don't.
Tumblr Twitter
That was the whole reason I said I was going to be a comic writer when I was kid.
I think that that's better dealt with through research and a high quality standard than simply reading a ton of comics every week, most of which you won't personally enjoy. Cliched writing in particular is more a consequence of being an uninspired hack than ignorance of the cliches themselves. It's not as though comic writers are accidentally retreading good storylines. Rather, they're revisiting concepts that weren't compelling to begin with, and they do so because they're as lazy and predictable as the people who made them cliches in the first place.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
That... How do these people even get jobs at DC? What was the interview process?
Random guy at Warner: "So do you like the DC Universe?"
Didio: "I love it! Well except for nearly everything in it."
Random guy at Warner: "I don't give a shit, you're hired!"
I also saw this piece in the Johns spotlight: That really doesn't sound very interesting.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
"And he noted his Batman wouldn't be as good at his job as the regular DCU one."
Well, yeah, it's his first time out there. We saw that in Year One.
On the other hand, having Bruce make an incorrect deduction and aid in the apprehension and conviction of an innocent man would make for a decent storyline.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
no see picture a combination of The Funky Phantom and Band of Brothers
"And the Lord taketh away" is the storyline for Generation Lost (Maxwell Lord erasing knowledge of his existence)
Look inside the Suit is where Dick Grayson left his phone
The Time Pool is Deadly is obviously talking about the Deadpool/Booster Gold crossover
The what now? Deadpool in a DC crossover comic? That is funny stuff, at this point you just know he's being put in everything to inspire nerd rage on forums.
Go read the current Nemesis book
God, I thought I was the only one reading that.
I have no idea what is going on but I love it so much it is stupid.
Isn't Darkseid dead?
EDIT: Oh wait, I bet it'll be something like bringing back Bruce will also bring back the New Gods
Or DC editorial will just decide to retcon/ignore Final Crisis because hey, making continuity confusing seems to be their job.
I'm reading it
It's much better than Escape was. All they had to do was put Batman in it!
There is nothing more interesting than that - don't you watch CSI?
It's not so funny anymore.
What is grimmer and grittier than having a character get an arm ripped off and then having his daughter die?
Hey guys the rape pages are in!
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
No you see, you have an emotional reaction to someone shitting in your mouth. It's still valid!
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
It was just done so horribly, it read like a gimmick and there was no reason to have any sort of emmotional reaction to it. If you want to see the proper way to kill a child for something other than shock value, read the first arc of the new Punisher MAX book and compare it to what was done in Cry for Justice.
I understand that Max was mind controlling Superman at the time and Prometheus was just chatting on his cell phone or something. But, Prometheus did mention he had city destroying devices in a bunch of other cities so.......
I don't know, honestly I think the whole superheroes shouldn't kill thing is kinda dumb in these situations.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
(even though Prometheus would kill more dudes)
it's stupid but hey comic books