For me, the thing that made me less inclined to buy the game in that video were the areas where it looked like a chore to actually progress. Which goes beyond the player sucking; it looked like there were a few areas where you HAD to go through some weirdly complicated maneuvers just to get out rather than just saying "screw it, I'll take my chances on the bottom" and proceeding from there. It's the same kind of thing that annoyed me on, say, the airship and pyramid levels of Sonic and Knuckles.
There's, like, one puzzle in the whole game. The solution to it is in this very thread. Don't let that dissuade you!
I'm not talking about puzzles, I'm talking about sequences where you have to nail very complex jumps just right or you're stuck, instead of simply taking a less rewarding path forward.
For me, the thing that made me less inclined to buy the game in that video were the areas where it looked like a chore to actually progress. Which goes beyond the player sucking; it looked like there were a few areas where you HAD to go through some weirdly complicated maneuvers just to get out rather than just saying "screw it, I'll take my chances on the bottom" and proceeding from there. It's the same kind of thing that annoyed me on, say, the airship and pyramid levels of Sonic and Knuckles.
There's, like, one puzzle in the whole game. The solution to it is in this very thread. Don't let that dissuade you!
It's not about puzzles, it's about needing to swing from 4 consecutive vines to get out the top exit, or just leave through the bottom knowing you're taking the worse path.
Of course the old games had this sort of thing too from time to time but it does look tedious in the Quick Look (although I can easily see that they were playing terribly).
I'm also bothered by how difficult it is to maintain momentum
In Sonic 1 when you got goin' you were goin', and you didn't have to keep holding right to keep goin'
At least that's how I remember it
Having played Sonic 1 yesterday, that's about how it works. That is something that felt off in the Sonic 4 demo, Sonic felt like he was slower and had more control over his momentum. It just feels off and strange to me.
I'm also bothered by how difficult it is to maintain momentum
In Sonic 1 when you got goin' you were goin', and you didn't have to keep holding right to keep goin'
At least that's how I remember it
Having played Sonic 1 yesterday, that's about how it works. That is something that felt off in the Sonic 4 demo, Sonic felt like he was slower and had more control over his momentum. It just feels off and strange to me.
I was afraid Sega would take the fans' clamor for "momentum not speed, dammit!" a little too close to heart.
The only thing that bothered me momentum/physics wise is a section in Casio Street. In Sonic 1 & 2 there were moments where you were in a hole with a U-shaped bottom. If you rolled up one side and held down, you'd roll back up the other side, and then you'd keep going across to bottom to the other side until you gained up speed and height to get out of the hole.
Sonic 4 doesn't do this. Sonic only goes up to the same height on each side, never gaining any height or speed in the process.
For me, the thing that made me less inclined to buy the game in that video were the areas where it looked like a chore to actually progress. Which goes beyond the player sucking; it looked like there were a few areas where you HAD to go through some weirdly complicated maneuvers just to get out rather than just saying "screw it, I'll take my chances on the bottom" and proceeding from there. It's the same kind of thing that annoyed me on, say, the airship and pyramid levels of Sonic and Knuckles.
There's, like, one puzzle in the whole game. The solution to it is in this very thread. Don't let that dissuade you!
It's not about puzzles, it's about needing to swing from 4 consecutive vines to get out the top exit, or just leave through the bottom knowing you're taking the worse path.
Of course the old games had this sort of thing too from time to time but it does look tedious in the Quick Look (although I can easily see that they were playing terribly).
That part is not difficult, even if you miss a vine the first time and have to go back up, it's still less than 10 seconds to get through that section.
Gave the demo a try. Fun, although the control felt a little off at first. If it was $10, I might pick it up, but there are too many good games out there that I haven't played yet for me to want to pick it up for $15.
Gave the demo a try. Fun, although the control felt a little off at first. If it was $10, I might pick it up, but there are too many good games out there that I haven't played yet for me to want to pick it up for $15.
That sounds about right for me too. I'm sure I'd get a fair amount of enjoyment out of it, just not $15 worth.
The only thing that bothered me momentum/physics wise is a section in Casio Street. In Sonic 1 & 2 there were moments where you were in a hole with a U-shaped bottom. If you rolled up one side and held down, you'd roll back up the other side, and then you'd keep going across to bottom to the other side until you gained up speed and height to get out of the hole.
Sonic 4 doesn't do this. Sonic only goes up to the same height on each side, never gaining any height or speed in the process.
I long for a Sonic game wherein they give us the speed and control from the new 2D games while maintaining the roll-physics from the older games.
The music sorta irked me, too. The songs were fitting, but the instrument choices and lack of variance in the percussion cheapened the experience. This was a collaboration with DIMPS, right? What happened to the music from Advance/Rush?
Drooling over the rest, though. New special stages gave me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
I think I ruined Lost Labyrinth Act 2 for myself. Turns out Super Sonic doesn't need to use the torch to light up the background. Or activate most of the switch puzzle.
EDIT - Also, turning Super changes Invincibility TVs into 1 Ups, even if they're on screen during transformation.
BlitzAce1981 on
PSN ID - BlitzAce1981 FFXIV - Raiden Solitaire (Sargatanas)
0
DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I'm really sad that I decided to just buy the game instead of trying the demo. Really not enjoying the controls or the graphics or the fact that the levels seem absolutely massive.
The special stages are a nice change though.
Domhnall on
Xbox Live - Minty D Vision Steam - Minty D. Vision! Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
Theeeeeere we go. 44"25 on Splash Hill Act 1 (Super Sonic).
EDIT - Holy crap, just seen that I'm 9th for Score Attack on the same level.
EDIT 2 - Got it down to 41"18 now. Running out of ideas of where to get more speed, other than nail the first chain of four Bubbles perfectly; I lost momentum on the fourth one, which probably cost me half a second.
BlitzAce1981 on
PSN ID - BlitzAce1981 FFXIV - Raiden Solitaire (Sargatanas)
I'm really sad that I decided to just buy the game instead of trying the demo. Really not enjoying the controls or the graphics or the fact that the levels seem absolutely massive.
Except for parts of 3&K, 2D Sonic levels tend to be pretty huge; most don't notice once they have a circuit down pat.
The easiest way to trim down the length is to always take the highest path. Doesn't always work, but usually makes long levels beatable in a minute or two.
Okay, I'm done speedrunning for the night; just did a 38"40, which should put me 8th on the PS3 leaderboards. Top time is now 35"45, and it looks like taking the 2 seconds to go Super is the way to go.
BlitzAce1981 on
PSN ID - BlitzAce1981 FFXIV - Raiden Solitaire (Sargatanas)
Except for parts of 3&K, 2D Sonic levels tend to be pretty huge; most don't notice once they have a circuit down pat.
Actually, the levels in Sonic 3&K are the longest in the series. They're usually twice as big as Sonic 2's levels.
Speaking of huge levels, that's one of the best things returning to Sonic Colors - the acts start off small, but they're supposed to get enormous later in the game. They described Aquarium Park as having completely optional underwater segments that are 11-12 screens tall, filled with multiple paths. That's in addition to several completely different above-water paths. And you never have to go under water or above water if you don't want to.
TheSonicRetard on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I am really excited about Sonic Colours. Despite some complaints about Sonic 4, that are understandable, the game is built on really solid fundamentals. So hopefully they've translated this into Colors.
I am really excited about Sonic Colours. Despite some complaints about Sonic 4, that are understandable, the game is built on really solid fundamentals. So hopefully they've translated this into Colors.
Considering it's built off of Sonic Unleashed's daytime levels, which were rock solid in my opinion, I think they've got the fundamentals down.
Dang it TSR I don't have time for so many new games. I still have an unopened Metroid: Other M in my basement and now you're going to make me add Sonic Colors to the pile.
Except for parts of 3&K, 2D Sonic levels tend to be pretty huge; most don't notice once they have a circuit down pat.
Actually, the levels in Sonic 3&K are the longest in the series. They're usually twice as big as Sonic 2's levels.
I realize that; was more a suggestion of non-linearity. Some of the levels in 3&K were fairly straightforward, despite the length(unless you count the branching paths for Knuckles, but since he's normally the only one who can access those...)
Speaking of huge levels, that's one of the best things returning to Sonic Colors - the acts start off small, but they're supposed to get enormous later in the game. They described Aquarium Park as having completely optional underwater segments that are 11-12 screens tall, filled with multiple paths. That's in addition to several completely different above-water paths. And you never have to go under water or above water if you don't want to.
Very cool. That gonna be the case for both versions?
I do not like Lost Labyrinth Zone very much. So much stop and go for so little reason. And the boss is really boring. Is that an ode to an old boss from a previous Sonic game? Because so far that's the only one I've faced that I don't remember. The torch puzzle was kind of fun though.
I do not like Lost Labyrinth Zone very much. So much stop and go for so little reason. And the boss is really boring. Is that an ode to an old boss from a previous Sonic game? Because so far that's the only one I've faced that I don't remember. The torch puzzle was kind of fun though.
I do not like Lost Labyrinth Zone very much. So much stop and go for so little reason. And the boss is really boring. Is that an ode to an old boss from a previous Sonic game? Because so far that's the only one I've faced that I don't remember. The torch puzzle was kind of fun though.
That video reminds me of the big problem of Sonic 1, all the copy and paste within levels. I'd feel like I was going in circles in some parts of zones.
That video reminds me of the big problem of Sonic 1, all the copy and paste within levels. I'd feel like I was going in circles in some parts of zones.
That's because Sonic 1 used 256x256 level chunks. Sonic 2 onward used 128x128 level chunks. Sonic CD also used 256x256 level chunks, but coming from a CD, size wasn't a limitation, so they were able to include fucking tons of level chunks to make the levels layouts so unsimilar.
TheSonicRetard on
0
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I've got a weird question here, I bet TSR might know of an answer. Playing Sonic 4 right now, I started thinking how cool it would be to have a 2D Sonic game with a giant extended world-a Metroidvania Sonic, if you will, with switches and mechanisms to open areas and whatnot, big on exploration but not split into discrete stages like the traditional games. Somehow I imagined a Sonic game with a map screen, and the rest fell into place.
Has there ever been a Sonic game of this sort, official or fan-made?
I've got a weird question here, I bet TSR might know of an answer. Playing Sonic 4 right now, I started thinking how cool it would be to have a 2D Sonic game with a giant extended world-a Metroidvania Sonic, if you will, with switches and mechanisms to open areas and whatnot, big on exploration but not split into discrete stages like the traditional games. Somehow I imagined a Sonic game with a map screen, and the rest fell into place.
Has there ever been a Sonic game of this sort, official or fan-made?
The Xbox Indie game I've been working on for 3 years now. Thats pretty much it.
The onscreen controls in the iPhone port tend to get annoying in the later zones. You don't have the split seconds to react if you are fighting with "Don't run right - Duck and spin dash, DUCK AND SPINDASH, goddamit!'. I can't count how many times I died to that drill because of this.
I'm really sad that I decided to just buy the game instead of trying the demo. Really not enjoying the controls or the graphics or the fact that the levels seem absolutely massive.
The special stages are a nice change though.
This is just curiosity, not 'lawl you are wrong for not enjoying the same things', but why are massive levels a problem?
Posts
I'm not talking about puzzles, I'm talking about sequences where you have to nail very complex jumps just right or you're stuck, instead of simply taking a less rewarding path forward.
It's not about puzzles, it's about needing to swing from 4 consecutive vines to get out the top exit, or just leave through the bottom knowing you're taking the worse path.
Of course the old games had this sort of thing too from time to time but it does look tedious in the Quick Look (although I can easily see that they were playing terribly).
In Sonic 1 when you got goin' you were goin', and you didn't have to keep holding right to keep goin'
At least that's how I remember it
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Having played Sonic 1 yesterday, that's about how it works. That is something that felt off in the Sonic 4 demo, Sonic felt like he was slower and had more control over his momentum. It just feels off and strange to me.
I was afraid Sega would take the fans' clamor for "momentum not speed, dammit!" a little too close to heart.
Fun fact: you're not playing Sonic 1.
Well they sure fooled me
What with all their effort going towards making this feel like an old Sonic the Hedgehog game
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Sonic 4 doesn't do this. Sonic only goes up to the same height on each side, never gaining any height or speed in the process.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
That part is not difficult, even if you miss a vine the first time and have to go back up, it's still less than 10 seconds to get through that section.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
That sounds about right for me too. I'm sure I'd get a fair amount of enjoyment out of it, just not $15 worth.
I long for a Sonic game wherein they give us the speed and control from the new 2D games while maintaining the roll-physics from the older games.
The music sorta irked me, too. The songs were fitting, but the instrument choices and lack of variance in the percussion cheapened the experience. This was a collaboration with DIMPS, right? What happened to the music from Advance/Rush?
Drooling over the rest, though. New special stages gave me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
EDIT - Also, turning Super changes Invincibility TVs into 1 Ups, even if they're on screen during transformation.
The special stages are a nice change though.
Steam - Minty D. Vision!
Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
EDIT - Holy crap, just seen that I'm 9th for Score Attack on the same level.
EDIT 2 - Got it down to 41"18 now. Running out of ideas of where to get more speed, other than nail the first chain of four Bubbles perfectly; I lost momentum on the fourth one, which probably cost me half a second.
Except for parts of 3&K, 2D Sonic levels tend to be pretty huge; most don't notice once they have a circuit down pat.
The easiest way to trim down the length is to always take the highest path. Doesn't always work, but usually makes long levels beatable in a minute or two.
Actually, the levels in Sonic 3&K are the longest in the series. They're usually twice as big as Sonic 2's levels.
Speaking of huge levels, that's one of the best things returning to Sonic Colors - the acts start off small, but they're supposed to get enormous later in the game. They described Aquarium Park as having completely optional underwater segments that are 11-12 screens tall, filled with multiple paths. That's in addition to several completely different above-water paths. And you never have to go under water or above water if you don't want to.
Considering it's built off of Sonic Unleashed's daytime levels, which were rock solid in my opinion, I think they've got the fundamentals down.
Bet it would be better with Snappleman's.
Holy shit
I realize that; was more a suggestion of non-linearity. Some of the levels in 3&K were fairly straightforward, despite the length(unless you count the branching paths for Knuckles, but since he's normally the only one who can access those...)
Very cool. That gonna be the case for both versions?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1406771492852020940#
skip to 6:17
They did a much better job with Sonic 2 and CD.
That's because Sonic 1 used 256x256 level chunks. Sonic 2 onward used 128x128 level chunks. Sonic CD also used 256x256 level chunks, but coming from a CD, size wasn't a limitation, so they were able to include fucking tons of level chunks to make the levels layouts so unsimilar.
Has there ever been a Sonic game of this sort, official or fan-made?
The Xbox Indie game I've been working on for 3 years now. Thats pretty much it.
Edit: My mistake, according to Wiki its right after Sonic and Knuckles. Still though, the way this plays on HD is awesome.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
doo eet
That said, I did beat the final boss, and am now having trouble with Emerald 5.