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Should i be looking to start a serious career (i have a terrible job history due to sporadic art career and want to change that), or should i be content to sustain on low-level jobs so i can relocate again if she changes her mind?
Do what you want to do for yourself. Don't base your decisions on what she may or may not do. If you really want to start a career, then start a career.
If you're happy with your own life, you'll be much more likely to attract somebody who is happy sharing it with you.
As for the rest of it, try to make as clean a break as possible. Be thankful there are no kids or pets involved. Get to your "inconvenient" relocation spot 100 miles north, and start making plans to split up your stuff. See if you can get somebody to help you with it - as in, a buddy to accompany you back to the old house when you get your shit out so you don't have to deal with it all yourself.
In general, the quicker and cleaner you make a break, the better it will be. Like ripping off a bandaid, as they say.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Sounds like she wants you to be a grown-up. After a while you can no longer live like a teenager. Don't sacrifice any opportunities for a career to wait for her - that's exactly what she doesn't want. Work towards a proper career. Even if it does not make her happy, it'll set you up better for the rest of your life than drifting from temporary job to temporary job.
It would be good to get counseling so you can both understand what went wrong and if there is any hope of saving your marriage.
I AM happy with my life, that's the issue. We had so many of the same hobbies (video games, toys, similar movie tastes) that every day together has been an absolute blast. That's what's throwing me off, we're pretty perfect together. This is entirely out of left field.
No it's not out of left field at all. You said it yourself: she's been upset at your employment status before. As Badger wrote, at some point you have to grow up. It sounds like she is supporting your lazy lifestyle. And before you say "but I was trying an artist" in your head or anything else: you weren't anything if you aren't weren't making money. You are an amateur hobbyist. Artists make livings so they can continue doing it for themselves. I would be very surprised if you weren't some form of financial drain.
Exactly how have you been filling your days while she is at work? Playing Warcraft? Something else that looks far more fun than going out and getting a job?
I would expect this burnt harder for her after you came back from that week apart and said you'd changed, but then really hadn't. A very quick way to get in trouble is to say you've changed when you haven't (even if you think you have) to a significant other. I made that mistake more than once, and the second time round you end up with things like "but I can't trust you!" problems. And that's worse.
Getting a counselor is recommended, but from what you've said, I would be surprised if this wasn't the root cause. As well as trying to get a counselor, you need to try and get a job. A 9-5 money making job, that you will probably hate. It's going to be important to show her that you are willing to pull your weight, whatever it takes.
Yeah... I'm not surprised that she feels that way. You're perfectly happy with your way of life... because your way of life is exactly what you want, without having to make any of the sacrifices we often have to make. For instance, taking a job that isn't your dream job, but brings in a reasonable amount of income.
As to what to do regarding the relationship... You can certainly start trying to get into a career that will pay your bills and see if that makes her willing to start counseling and try to salvage the marriage. It might not though. It's possible she's already seen enough of what responsibilities you're willing to shoulder and what sacrifices you'll make for the good of the two of you, and she might be ready to try someone with a more mature outlook on life.
The harsh reality is that people are only willing to support someone for a short period so that person can achieve their dream, weather it's an aspiring artist anything else. Regardless of how hard you do or do not apply yourself if you don't succeed (read: bring in $$$) after a certain grace period they will get resentful.
I'm in a 9-5 type job I dislike as a result of being in a somewhat similar situation to yours.
Yeah, you might be too late, if either of you are the type to hold grudges.
I went through something similar, I was freelancing as an artist and I went from making ok money, to not much at all, certainly could not support myself. My then boyfriend took a lot of responsibility paying for us, and even though I was super thankful and made sure to clean up and cook food, I was still a burden.
And really, like many people, he got a little jealous of my 'lax' lifestyle. So I sucked it up, vowed to change, and went and got myself a job that made good money.
He wanted to do something else with his life job wise, so I then supported him while he tried. He went two years, with no real income, and in the end I knew exactly how he must have felt helping me.
We both held grudges, we both felt put out, and it wasn't salvageable. We did stay great friends though.
So yeah, for your own good I would say get a job, get on your feet, and move out. Move back home if you want to get some support from family/friends, but be careful you don't just become a burden THERE as an exchange (you couch surfed before right?)
You guys are married, she might just need to see you become a 9-5 contributing member of society and the household, if that is NOT what you want and you think you WILL feel resentment towards her for making you do it, I don't think you two will find a middle ground.
Realize a lot of people want what you want, to chase their dreams, and ultimately reach them. You CAN get a full time job and work on your art and make that your career, if you want it bad enough. If you don't have the drive to do it, and save your marriage, then it's unfortunate.
A part of me wants to say "Get a real job, even if you dont like it, yadda yadda productive member of society..."
and the other part of me is thinking "Fuck that, you are happy, doing what you enjoy, keep doing it as long as you can pay for place to live and food to eat." Too many people sacrifice there happiness just to be another cog that has some security.
A part of me wants to say "Get a real job, even if you dont like it, yadda yadda productive member of society..."
and the other part of me is thinking "Fuck that, you are happy, doing what you enjoy, keep doing it as long as you can pay for place to live and food to eat." Too many people sacrifice there happiness just to be another cog that has some security.
He's not doing it for security though.
He basically has to weigh what's more important: Happiness with his wife, or happiness living life exactly the way he wants to.
Kyougu on
0
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
The 'happiness with his wife' train seems to have left the station.
I've tried everything, and i've applied for dozens of jobs over the past few weeks. But it's not doing any good. She wants, at the very least, a separation.
We had a similar thread in the past where someone's wife was flat-out saying "I don't want to try to repair the marriage, I want out". That's basically the long and short of this situation.
OP, my condolences to you, but at the same time, I have to agree with Lewisham. It sounds like there were several signs that you may have just missed that indicated that your wife was not happy. Part as amicably as you can, no one wants a messy divorce, they're messy enough on their own with all the financial and legal issues. Once you're out and done with it, I would advise you to truly focus your energy on at least becoming financially stable. Art is a great hobby to pursue, but until you can receive steady income for it, it will remain simply that: a hobby. Get a job, stay with friends or family and save your money, then move out and become financially independent.
Once that's out of the way, at whatever point you find another person to share your life with, be sure to communicate with them. A situation like your current one could have been at least prepared for if not avoided entirely by being more communicative with your spouse. It's great that she liked to do the same things you liked to do, video games and movies and such, but that doesn't make you a good couple, that makes you good friends/roommates. A successful couple communicates and works towards their common goal together.
A part of me wants to say "Get a real job, even if you dont like it, yadda yadda productive member of society..."
and the other part of me is thinking "Fuck that, you are happy, doing what you enjoy, keep doing it as long as you can pay for place to live and food to eat." Too many people sacrifice there happiness just to be another cog that has some security.
He's not doing it for security though.
He basically has to weigh what's more important: Happiness with his wife, or happiness living life exactly the way he wants to.
imo, I would go with the latter. The wife was expecting him to change and she is pissed that it didnt happen, even after his hiatus. Maybe she thought he was a "fixer upper" yea they have lots in common but artists arent generally known for being finacially stable.
If he is happy with his life and how he is living it then why should he be the one to change.
of course if he is a sponge who cant support himself on what his art brings in and odd jobs then yea he should probably look for something else.
A part of me wants to say "Get a real job, even if you dont like it, yadda yadda productive member of society..."
and the other part of me is thinking "Fuck that, you are happy, doing what you enjoy, keep doing it as long as you can pay for place to live and food to eat." Too many people sacrifice there happiness just to be another cog that has some security.
He's not doing it for security though.
He basically has to weigh what's more important: Happiness with his wife, or happiness living life exactly the way he wants to.
imo, I would go with the latter. The wife was expecting him to change and she is pissed that it didnt happen, even after his hiatus. Maybe she thought he was a "fixer upper" yea they have lots in common but artists arent generally known for being finacially stable.
If he is happy with his life and how he is living it then why should he be the one to change.
of course if he is a sponge who cant support himself on what his art brings in and odd jobs then yea he should probably look for something else.
A big part of marriage is being willing to sacrifice for the good of the marriage though, or at least in my opinion it is. That's exactly the scenario OP is in, as his wife seems to be sick of waiting for him to grow up, and has resentment that OP gets the good life while she works a 9-5, as anyone eventually would. Being happy and never letting go of your dreams is in important too, but in doing so you have to be willing to make the hard choices that life throws your way, and this is one of them.
All of you saying, "If you're happy with your way of life, don't change it" are ignoring something. His way of life is only possible because his wife brings in the necessary income to sustain his lifestyle. That's the problem there. I'm willing to bet he wouldn't enjoy his current way of life as much if he was living by his own income and means.
That's where the encouragement to get a 9-5 (or 7pm-4am, whatever) while supporting your art in your spare time comes from. The OP's wife sounds like she was very patient in trying to support him as he pursued his dream. Sometimes you aren't cut out for your dream, though, or at least find yourself in a situation where your talent still isn't bringing in what you need to live on. Expecting your spouse to support you even once it's become clear that you aren't making it in your field is a pretty big thing to ask.
If you can convince her to do some marriage counseling, I think that would be your best bet.
Edit: I also want to add one thing to those of you saying he should sacrifice his dream. Love is willing to sacrifice your well being for another's, and in a marriage, this feeling of sacrifice needs to go both ways. What is the wife sacrificing to support his dream, and what is the husband sacrificing to support his wife's. What is his wife's dream. If her dream is something requiring a lot of money, then yes, the husband should be willing to make sacrifices. If it's just an annoyance that she makes more money, well that's something else.
The fact that she would want a separation over such an issue leads me to believe she just doesn't love him anymore. Her refusal to communicate is probably based on her desire to blame it all on the career choice.
Also OP, you're going to eventually have to start a career of some sort anyway, as the odds of gettting rich overnight are nill. Better to start developing your finances sooner than later, as you are going to want to have savings, insurance, investments, retirement, and all that jazz later on in your adulthood so you can do things like buy a house, nice car, and so on.
All of you saying, "If you're happy with your way of life, don't change it" are ignoring something. His way of life is only possible because his wife brings in the necessary income to sustain his lifestyle. That's the problem there. I'm willing to bet he wouldn't enjoy his current way of life as much if he was living by his own income and means.
That's where the encouragement to get a 9-5 (or 7pm-4am, whatever) while supporting your art in your spare time comes from. The OP's wife sounds like she was very patient in trying to support him as he pursued his dream. Sometimes you aren't cut out for your dream, though, or at least find yourself in a situation where your talent still isn't bringing in what you need to live on. Expecting your spouse to support you even once it's become clear that you aren't making it in your field is a pretty big thing to ask.
I agree, which is why I included the sponge comment, if he isnt capable of supporting himself with his art (which the OP doesnt make clear) then yea he should probably look for other work. Not enough information to make a fair assessment.
I also think too many people sacrifice there own happiness for someone else, married or not. (Of course there is exceptions to that, if your happiness is smoking a rock of crack a day for example.. )
If you can convince her to do some marriage counseling, I think that would be your best bet.
Edit: I also want to add one thing to those of you saying he should sacrifice his dream. Love is willing to sacrifice your well being for another's, and in a marriage, this feeling of sacrifice needs to go both ways. What is the wife sacrificing to support his dream, and what is the husband sacrificing to support his wife's. What is his wife's dream. If her dream is something requiring a lot of money, then yes, the husband should be willing to make sacrifices. If it's just an annoyance that she makes more money, well that's something else.
The fact that she would want a separation over such an issue leads me to believe she just doesn't love him anymore. Her refusal to communicate is probably based on her desire to blame it all on the career choice.
What? No. If she was willing to give him a second chance before, and also PUT UP with her supposedly money-drain spouse, than I doubt her feelings towards him are the issue here.
Unless you think 'love conquers all' is also at the expense of your own mental well being, which is really the root here. She sounds like she feels unappreciated, and also there's a chance she has internal anger towards herself for putting up with this so long.
I think her 'dream' is just having a partner who puts forth equal effort and finances in the relationship so she can fall back on him the way he does her if it ever came to that. (You know, like maybe if they want kids someday, or something.)
Love does not mean "you don't have a dream, but I do, so support me indefinitely."
Seriously. The autopsy on your relationship isn't fucking CSI, your financially unstable and have been for a long time. The time for promises and excuses is over, so now only hard evidence will do. You may not have enough time to provide this, because in all honesty you've had long enough.
If you can convince her to do some marriage counseling, I think that would be your best bet.
Edit: I also want to add one thing to those of you saying he should sacrifice his dream. Love is willing to sacrifice your well being for another's, and in a marriage, this feeling of sacrifice needs to go both ways. What is the wife sacrificing to support his dream, and what is the husband sacrificing to support his wife's. What is his wife's dream. If her dream is something requiring a lot of money, then yes, the husband should be willing to make sacrifices. If it's just an annoyance that she makes more money, well that's something else.
The fact that she would want a separation over such an issue leads me to believe she just doesn't love him anymore. Her refusal to communicate is probably based on her desire to blame it all on the career choice.
What? No. If she was willing to give him a second chance before, and also PUT UP with her supposedly money-drain spouse, than I doubt her feelings towards him are the issue here.
Unless you think 'love conquers all' is also at the expense of your own mental well being, which is really the root here. She sounds like she feels unappreciated, and also there's a chance she has internal anger towards herself for putting up with this so long.
I think her 'dream' is just having a partner who puts forth equal effort and finances in the relationship so she can fall back on him the way he does her if it ever came to that. (You know, like maybe if they want kids someday, or something.)
Love does not mean "you don't have a dream, but I do, so support me indefinitely."
So people should just divorce their spouses if they don't make or put forth enough effort to make the same or more money than themselves? How many marriages even exist where both spouses contribute the same amount of money? Who would divorce their wife because she was a homemaker? If the only way a relationship can exist is where this guy is contributing more money, than yea, the love isn't there.
As far as "I think her 'dream' is just having a partner who puts forth equal effort and finances in the relationship so she can fall back on him the way he does her if it ever came to that." Well, if she were to fall back on him like he does on her, than I guess he's leaving her?
It may actually be just that, for this woman. I'd bet she wasn't expecting a situation similar(kinda) to having a stay-at-home husband. For that matter, I think way fewer guys these days would be willing to accept a stay-at-home wife, if kids were not in the picture.
Are you deliberately playing devil's advocate, or do you honestly not understand this concept? No one said he had to make as much or more than her, those are numbers we couldn't even know.
All I AM saying, is it's draining to support someone who shows no sign of WANTING to progress in their situation. He does not make enough money to live on his own, or even buy a car it seems. Without her, he is back with friends or on the street (based on the info from the OP).
Imagine yourself as the wife.
You would not feel put out by picking up the slack all the time? You'd really, truly, decide "well I love this person so oh well, I accept them like this."
And man, I don't care if the two of them reversed genders, anyone who is a drain on another person with the unfulfilled promise of maybe someday being able to contribute would be stressing out their partner.
So people should just divorce their spouses if they don't make or put forth enough effort to make the same or more money than themselves? How many marriages even exist where both spouses contribute the same amount of money? Who would divorce their wife because she was a homemaker? If the only way a relationship can exist is where this guy is contributing more money, than yea, the love isn't there.
There is a huge difference between two people both working hard on a career and just ending up making different money due to market conditions and being unequally yoked, which apparently is what his wife is feeling. There was a world of difference in how I felt towards my now wife when she was unemployed and finding herself versus having a career, even though we weren't destitute during either period. I still make far more money than her, but knowing that she is putting forth the effort to better her future prospects is still a source of comfort and affirmation for me.
I mean, he is basically doing what strikes his whimsy it sounds like, drawing and maybe making some small income off said drawings. If I somehow managed to eke out a meager income playing video games all day after falling apart I wouldn't expect my wife to just fall all over herself with joy, unless I had discussed things with her extensively before doing that instead of a more traditional job with higher earning power. And it very much sounds like this was not discussed extensively with his wife, though I guess I could be wrong. When people become homemakers it should be discussed and planned far in advance with both parties reaching some sort of agreement. It isn't something you should just fall into just because.
Granted, the wife in this situation should have sat down and discussed the situation long before the 2 year mark, but I am suspicious that this just came out of the blue as well. Couples counseling should probably be the next step if you can convince your wife of its merits.
I think our disagreements are coming from different viewpoints about what an "artist" does. I myself work as an artist full time and do quite well for myself. The OP, perhaps doesnt. Regardless, it's a viable career path with a multitude of jobs offering 6 figure payouts, even if you work from home. If you're good. I'm imagining him as someone like me, who is perhaps still struggling to get his career moving, but with strong future prospects as his ability grows. I think a lot of you are imagining him as someone who just draws and paints all day at home and goofs off and occasionally sells a painting on ebay. None of us know which is true.
I think our disagreements are coming from different viewpoints about what an "artist" does. I myself work as an artist full time and do quite well for myself. The OP, perhaps doesnt. Regardless, it's a viable career path with a multitude of jobs offering 6 figure payouts, even if you work from home. If you're good. I'm imagining him as someone like me, who is perhaps still struggling to get his career moving, but with strong future prospects as his ability grows. I think a lot of you are imagining him as someone who just draws and paints all day at home and goofs off and occasionally sells a painting on ebay. None of us know which is true.
I'm not sure that we have to know, as his wife kicking him out kind of makes it obvious that at she doesn't see the full time artist thing working out short or long term. It may well work out, but it doesn't sound like she's willing to wait anymore. And then it becomes a choice of art or wife. Though I will say there are certain things about this story that throw up warning flags that she may just want her husband to grow up. I've seen full time artists hustling their shit and working their asses off, and that doesn't seem to be on show here.
I think it's somewhat important whether the OP is "making a modest amount of money" or "making peanuts". If he's working long hours on his art and pulling in $20k per year doing something he loves, it's entirely justifiable for him to want to maintain that. If his wife is demanding that he get a job that lets him pull in $50k, then it's a matter of the two having reasonable differences in the type of lifestyles they wish to lead. And honestly, I would be content if my wife took a 50% cut in pay and stayed home to clean house and cook dinner. Because that's less of our time together that we have to spend doing housework. But ymmv.
Now, if he's pulling in a few thousand a year, then yeah, Mr. Manchild needs to grow up and get a real job. Because that's not sustainable, and wifey is justified in being pissed if this arrangement wasn't explicitly agreed to beforehand.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Quick question for you. How much time per week are you putting in to getting a job? Because if its less than 40 hours a week, the equivalent of a full time job, you won't be spending enough time doing it.
JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
Legally, I suppose you should divorce and liquidate your assets and you both take your payout and go. If you're married, and you've been a home-maker for her, she doesn't get to say, "I'm the paycheck, I keep it all."
That's one of the main points of marriage. (although generally the genders are reversed)
You guys are giving really great advice here, and i thank you for that. It's almost all stuff that I am honestly working on...i've come to terms with all of this and am currently selling just about everything i own to make it happen.
Re: our financial situation...actually when we first got together we discussed stay-at-home husband as a viable path for me. She has always loathed coming home and having to do any housework, while i am perfectly content to keep up on it for her. And she makes really good money so it's not like we've been struggling to keep up on rent or anything. Also i've had the drawing thing, which admittedly has been bringing in nothing but peanuts, as eljeffe suggested, for a little while now. I haven't had the drive to make it work as a career for some time now, and it's been kind of relegated to "paying hobby" status. Which is why i was putting effort into a construction job which fell apart through no fault of my own. And immediately after that happened i started looking for other jobs. I'm not talking "I checked the internet for artist jobs", i'm talking trying to get like overnight grocery stocking jobs at wal-mart.
I knew i needed to grow up and start bringing in some cash for real, but while i started doing it before the big blow-up, i apparently didn't start fast enough.
I unfortunately live in a really difficult area to get work with a long lapse in job history (it's almost all retail, waiting tables, etc), which is made harder by some highly visible tattoos that i got while doing comics that are now in retrospect a bad idea.
The place i am moving back to though has a bit more factory and warehouse work, which i have some experience in and have accepted the reality of going back to. The pay will be better than retail anyway, and the more regular hours should allow me to go back to school...i've always regretted dropping out of college all those years ago as an art major, and i'm ready to give something else a try. Something in english or science that might lead to a job where i don't have to be a joke anymore.
This is a horrible situation for me, and while i legitimately did think i was being a good husband and not a drain (other than the $10 extra on her cell bill for my phone, i have zero bills or anything of my own), i accept responsibility for the situation and am ready to go out and try to make something of myself.
It's just the moving apart thing that scares me...like i said it only takes me a day to absolutely miss the hell out of my wife and i just hope i can power through it mentally. And i hope we can bring things together smoothly again someday, but i worry that pursuing individual goals in separate states leaves that with pretty low odds. I just wish i'd seen the signs of this sooner, rather than blindly doing what i *thought* was the right thing.
Honestly, I seriously doubt the job situation was as bad as you described it for over two years
It sounds to me that you're making a lot of excuses. Your wife probably sees this as well and it probably frustrates her a lot. You also keep saying you're "working on" doing this and that. Stop working on it and just do it.
Honestly, from what you've said it sounds like your wife is sacrificing a lot while you've fallen into this convenient spot that works great for you on paper. In reality however you're coming to the stark realization that even though something sounds great on paper matters are oftentimes more complicated. I know it sounds harsh but I think you need to grow up and take responsibility for yourself. Only after you do that will your wife's opinion turn around.
Sell your comics and toys! It's hard, but they are just taking up space at this point and if it's worth saving your marriage then they are worth selling.
Don't make this a long drawn out process either. 1 and done if you can manage it. Which means selling it all together...again...if possible.
Be prepared not to get what it's worth but you are showing your wife you're doing something.
Where is she going till 1 or 2 in the morning?
Why did she say it had nothing to do with you and then said it was ALL about you?
Scumdog, what you're going through right now sucks something hard, but having gone through almost the same situation I can say that life will go on and shit gets better. For your concerns about the relationship there is a communication wall built up there because theres something else going on. She's avoiding you because she can't tell you the truth so she's blocking you out and putting all of the blame on you.
I spent 2 months trying to understand the insanity of my ex-wife and the situation but at the end of the day, when I was doing everything I could to salvage things, nothing was good enough and none of it made sense.
Right now you need to get yourself prepared for the worst. Get your belongings together, save some cash and stay with friends/family in the meantime.
As for the "grow up and be responsible" advice, it sounds like you've already gone down that road and if your marriage didnt improve out of that then there is a lot more going on behind the scenes that you and the rest of us don't know about.
Anyways, you have my regards. Divorce isn't the end of the world. I'm a better guy and a happier person after it.
Quick question for you. How much time per week are you putting in to getting a job? Because if its less than 40 hours a week, the equivalent of a full time job, you won't be spending enough time doing it.
In all honestly it has not been quite 40 hours a week, but i have spent several hours a day filling out applications for every job i qualify for in my area. It's been a lot. It has been hindered slightly by a complete lack of transportation though...not being able to get to temp agencies and such. As i mentioned earlier in the thread we only have one car right now. The wife takes it to work and then immediately goes out again when she gets home, often until 1 or 2 in the morning. So that's taken some creativity on my part. But yeah, i have sunk some serious time into applications and have gotten some interviews, just no job offers yet.
In the last week though i have basically stopped looking, focusing instead on selling possessions to get a car so i can move. The last thing i want to do is have to be a drain at all on anyone when i do move, so i want to have my own transportation and some living expenses. My parents live in the absolute middle of nowhere and both work, so having my own car is an absolute must right now.
Also i'm trying to correct a terrible job history, i absolutely do not want to get something and then have to quit it, for any reason. She's made it clear now that even if i do get a job down here she still wants me to move out. As i can't really afford to live on my own in this area and don't know anyone i could room with, my priorities have had to shift slightly for the moment.
It's good that you are being honest, it helps us see what you're doing wrong. In this case, your pattern of scapegoating everything else so you don't have to take responsibility for being a bum is pretty obvious.
I know it sounds harsh, but if you can SEE how lazy you are and were, you can accept it and change it.
Your wife isn't even an issue anymore, this is all on you, because even if you guys split you STILL need to help yourself become stable in some fashion.
I just see so many familiar red flags. The whole "well, I have been looking for a job...it's just bad here...and I have no car, too!" and then "well I need a car so I don't have the energy to look for a job too." and then "my work history is bad, if I found a job here I'd just have to quit it!"
I mean, man, LOOK FOR A JOB. If you get one now, it will help you, and if you HAVE to quit and move I'm sure your bad job history will not be hurt more by you not mentioning that short new job on your resume.
AND look for a job back home at the SAME TIME. You have way more time and energy capable to spend on these things than you think. Use it and make your life better!
Evil Gummy on
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
I'm not going to speculate on how boned you may or may not be at this point, but have you tried driving your wife to work and taking the car to look for jobs during the day, then picking your wife up from work?
Commuting sucks, but that could at least give you guys some time to talk stuff out.
It sounds to me that you're making a lot of excuses. Your wife probably sees this as well and it probably frustrates her a lot. You also keep saying you're "working on" doing this and that. Stop working on it and just do it.
underdonk on
Back in the day, bucko, we just had an A and a B button... and we liked it.
I'm not going to speculate on how boned you may or may not be at this point, but have you tried driving your wife to work and taking the car to look for jobs during the day, then picking your wife up from work?
Commuting sucks, but that could at least give you guys some time to talk stuff out.
This is a great idea on many different levels.
As mentioned in another post above, multitasking is a very good thing. Plans and backup plans. Are you writing out 'Things to Do' lists? Because 'selling all your shit' is a thing that only takes a few minutes here and there, and comes with a lot of downtime. Pack your work day, even if your working from home (ie job hunting, salesmanship, organization). Put in a 9-5, and try to make it count. At the moment you're your own boss, so don't fuck him over, mkay?
Quick question for you. How much time per week are you putting in to getting a job? Because if its less than 40 hours a week, the equivalent of a full time job, you won't be spending enough time doing it.
In all honestly it has not been quite 40 hours a week, but i have spent several hours a day filling out applications for every job i qualify for in my area. It's been a lot. It has been hindered slightly by a complete lack of transportation though...not being able to get to temp agencies and such. As i mentioned earlier in the thread we only have one car right now. The wife takes it to work and then immediately goes out again when she gets home, often until 1 or 2 in the morning. So that's taken some creativity on my part. But yeah, i have sunk some serious time into applications and have gotten some interviews, just no job offers yet.
In the last week though i have basically stopped looking, focusing instead on selling possessions to get a car so i can move. The last thing i want to do is have to be a drain at all on anyone when i do move, so i want to have my own transportation and some living expenses. My parents live in the absolute middle of nowhere and both work, so having my own car is an absolute must right now.
Also i'm trying to correct a terrible job history, i absolutely do not want to get something and then have to quit it, for any reason. She's made it clear now that even if i do get a job down here she still wants me to move out. As i can't really afford to live on my own in this area and don't know anyone i could room with, my priorities have had to shift slightly for the moment.
If you aren't spending 40 hours a week job searching, you aren't doing enough. Why 40 Hours a week? Because thats the standard full time job work week. And finding work is a full-time job. If you need help with some job search specifics, Knock Em Dead by Martin Yate is an excellent no bullshit book to get you focused.
Just how much money do you think you can get from selling your stuff? And how much time per pay does that really take?
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Do what you want to do for yourself. Don't base your decisions on what she may or may not do. If you really want to start a career, then start a career.
If you're happy with your own life, you'll be much more likely to attract somebody who is happy sharing it with you.
As for the rest of it, try to make as clean a break as possible. Be thankful there are no kids or pets involved. Get to your "inconvenient" relocation spot 100 miles north, and start making plans to split up your stuff. See if you can get somebody to help you with it - as in, a buddy to accompany you back to the old house when you get your shit out so you don't have to deal with it all yourself.
In general, the quicker and cleaner you make a break, the better it will be. Like ripping off a bandaid, as they say.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
It would be good to get counseling so you can both understand what went wrong and if there is any hope of saving your marriage.
No it's not out of left field at all. You said it yourself: she's been upset at your employment status before. As Badger wrote, at some point you have to grow up. It sounds like she is supporting your lazy lifestyle. And before you say "but I was trying an artist" in your head or anything else: you weren't anything if you aren't weren't making money. You are an amateur hobbyist. Artists make livings so they can continue doing it for themselves. I would be very surprised if you weren't some form of financial drain.
Exactly how have you been filling your days while she is at work? Playing Warcraft? Something else that looks far more fun than going out and getting a job?
I would expect this burnt harder for her after you came back from that week apart and said you'd changed, but then really hadn't. A very quick way to get in trouble is to say you've changed when you haven't (even if you think you have) to a significant other. I made that mistake more than once, and the second time round you end up with things like "but I can't trust you!" problems. And that's worse.
Getting a counselor is recommended, but from what you've said, I would be surprised if this wasn't the root cause. As well as trying to get a counselor, you need to try and get a job. A 9-5 money making job, that you will probably hate. It's going to be important to show her that you are willing to pull your weight, whatever it takes.
As to what to do regarding the relationship... You can certainly start trying to get into a career that will pay your bills and see if that makes her willing to start counseling and try to salvage the marriage. It might not though. It's possible she's already seen enough of what responsibilities you're willing to shoulder and what sacrifices you'll make for the good of the two of you, and she might be ready to try someone with a more mature outlook on life.
I'm in a 9-5 type job I dislike as a result of being in a somewhat similar situation to yours.
I went through something similar, I was freelancing as an artist and I went from making ok money, to not much at all, certainly could not support myself. My then boyfriend took a lot of responsibility paying for us, and even though I was super thankful and made sure to clean up and cook food, I was still a burden.
And really, like many people, he got a little jealous of my 'lax' lifestyle. So I sucked it up, vowed to change, and went and got myself a job that made good money.
He wanted to do something else with his life job wise, so I then supported him while he tried. He went two years, with no real income, and in the end I knew exactly how he must have felt helping me.
We both held grudges, we both felt put out, and it wasn't salvageable. We did stay great friends though.
So yeah, for your own good I would say get a job, get on your feet, and move out. Move back home if you want to get some support from family/friends, but be careful you don't just become a burden THERE as an exchange (you couch surfed before right?)
You guys are married, she might just need to see you become a 9-5 contributing member of society and the household, if that is NOT what you want and you think you WILL feel resentment towards her for making you do it, I don't think you two will find a middle ground.
Realize a lot of people want what you want, to chase their dreams, and ultimately reach them. You CAN get a full time job and work on your art and make that your career, if you want it bad enough. If you don't have the drive to do it, and save your marriage, then it's unfortunate.
and the other part of me is thinking "Fuck that, you are happy, doing what you enjoy, keep doing it as long as you can pay for place to live and food to eat." Too many people sacrifice there happiness just to be another cog that has some security.
He's not doing it for security though.
He basically has to weigh what's more important: Happiness with his wife, or happiness living life exactly the way he wants to.
We had a similar thread in the past where someone's wife was flat-out saying "I don't want to try to repair the marriage, I want out". That's basically the long and short of this situation.
OP, my condolences to you, but at the same time, I have to agree with Lewisham. It sounds like there were several signs that you may have just missed that indicated that your wife was not happy. Part as amicably as you can, no one wants a messy divorce, they're messy enough on their own with all the financial and legal issues. Once you're out and done with it, I would advise you to truly focus your energy on at least becoming financially stable. Art is a great hobby to pursue, but until you can receive steady income for it, it will remain simply that: a hobby. Get a job, stay with friends or family and save your money, then move out and become financially independent.
Once that's out of the way, at whatever point you find another person to share your life with, be sure to communicate with them. A situation like your current one could have been at least prepared for if not avoided entirely by being more communicative with your spouse. It's great that she liked to do the same things you liked to do, video games and movies and such, but that doesn't make you a good couple, that makes you good friends/roommates. A successful couple communicates and works towards their common goal together.
Good luck to you.
imo, I would go with the latter. The wife was expecting him to change and she is pissed that it didnt happen, even after his hiatus. Maybe she thought he was a "fixer upper" yea they have lots in common but artists arent generally known for being finacially stable.
If he is happy with his life and how he is living it then why should he be the one to change.
of course if he is a sponge who cant support himself on what his art brings in and odd jobs then yea he should probably look for something else.
A big part of marriage is being willing to sacrifice for the good of the marriage though, or at least in my opinion it is. That's exactly the scenario OP is in, as his wife seems to be sick of waiting for him to grow up, and has resentment that OP gets the good life while she works a 9-5, as anyone eventually would. Being happy and never letting go of your dreams is in important too, but in doing so you have to be willing to make the hard choices that life throws your way, and this is one of them.
That's where the encouragement to get a 9-5 (or 7pm-4am, whatever) while supporting your art in your spare time comes from. The OP's wife sounds like she was very patient in trying to support him as he pursued his dream. Sometimes you aren't cut out for your dream, though, or at least find yourself in a situation where your talent still isn't bringing in what you need to live on. Expecting your spouse to support you even once it's become clear that you aren't making it in your field is a pretty big thing to ask.
Edit: I also want to add one thing to those of you saying he should sacrifice his dream. Love is willing to sacrifice your well being for another's, and in a marriage, this feeling of sacrifice needs to go both ways. What is the wife sacrificing to support his dream, and what is the husband sacrificing to support his wife's. What is his wife's dream. If her dream is something requiring a lot of money, then yes, the husband should be willing to make sacrifices. If it's just an annoyance that she makes more money, well that's something else.
The fact that she would want a separation over such an issue leads me to believe she just doesn't love him anymore. Her refusal to communicate is probably based on her desire to blame it all on the career choice.
I agree, which is why I included the sponge comment, if he isnt capable of supporting himself with his art (which the OP doesnt make clear) then yea he should probably look for other work. Not enough information to make a fair assessment.
I also think too many people sacrifice there own happiness for someone else, married or not. (Of course there is exceptions to that, if your happiness is smoking a rock of crack a day for example.. )
What? No. If she was willing to give him a second chance before, and also PUT UP with her supposedly money-drain spouse, than I doubt her feelings towards him are the issue here.
Unless you think 'love conquers all' is also at the expense of your own mental well being, which is really the root here. She sounds like she feels unappreciated, and also there's a chance she has internal anger towards herself for putting up with this so long.
I think her 'dream' is just having a partner who puts forth equal effort and finances in the relationship so she can fall back on him the way he does her if it ever came to that. (You know, like maybe if they want kids someday, or something.)
Love does not mean "you don't have a dream, but I do, so support me indefinitely."
Seriously. The autopsy on your relationship isn't fucking CSI, your financially unstable and have been for a long time. The time for promises and excuses is over, so now only hard evidence will do. You may not have enough time to provide this, because in all honesty you've had long enough.
Rough. Hope it works out.
So people should just divorce their spouses if they don't make or put forth enough effort to make the same or more money than themselves? How many marriages even exist where both spouses contribute the same amount of money? Who would divorce their wife because she was a homemaker? If the only way a relationship can exist is where this guy is contributing more money, than yea, the love isn't there.
As far as "I think her 'dream' is just having a partner who puts forth equal effort and finances in the relationship so she can fall back on him the way he does her if it ever came to that." Well, if she were to fall back on him like he does on her, than I guess he's leaving her?
Are you deliberately playing devil's advocate, or do you honestly not understand this concept? No one said he had to make as much or more than her, those are numbers we couldn't even know.
All I AM saying, is it's draining to support someone who shows no sign of WANTING to progress in their situation. He does not make enough money to live on his own, or even buy a car it seems. Without her, he is back with friends or on the street (based on the info from the OP).
Imagine yourself as the wife.
You would not feel put out by picking up the slack all the time? You'd really, truly, decide "well I love this person so oh well, I accept them like this."
And man, I don't care if the two of them reversed genders, anyone who is a drain on another person with the unfulfilled promise of maybe someday being able to contribute would be stressing out their partner.
If not, the OP would not be having this issue.
There is a huge difference between two people both working hard on a career and just ending up making different money due to market conditions and being unequally yoked, which apparently is what his wife is feeling. There was a world of difference in how I felt towards my now wife when she was unemployed and finding herself versus having a career, even though we weren't destitute during either period. I still make far more money than her, but knowing that she is putting forth the effort to better her future prospects is still a source of comfort and affirmation for me.
I mean, he is basically doing what strikes his whimsy it sounds like, drawing and maybe making some small income off said drawings. If I somehow managed to eke out a meager income playing video games all day after falling apart I wouldn't expect my wife to just fall all over herself with joy, unless I had discussed things with her extensively before doing that instead of a more traditional job with higher earning power. And it very much sounds like this was not discussed extensively with his wife, though I guess I could be wrong. When people become homemakers it should be discussed and planned far in advance with both parties reaching some sort of agreement. It isn't something you should just fall into just because.
Granted, the wife in this situation should have sat down and discussed the situation long before the 2 year mark, but I am suspicious that this just came out of the blue as well. Couples counseling should probably be the next step if you can convince your wife of its merits.
I'm not sure that we have to know, as his wife kicking him out kind of makes it obvious that at she doesn't see the full time artist thing working out short or long term. It may well work out, but it doesn't sound like she's willing to wait anymore. And then it becomes a choice of art or wife. Though I will say there are certain things about this story that throw up warning flags that she may just want her husband to grow up. I've seen full time artists hustling their shit and working their asses off, and that doesn't seem to be on show here.
Now, if he's pulling in a few thousand a year, then yeah, Mr. Manchild needs to grow up and get a real job. Because that's not sustainable, and wifey is justified in being pissed if this arrangement wasn't explicitly agreed to beforehand.
That's one of the main points of marriage. (although generally the genders are reversed)
I host a podcast about movies.
Honestly, I seriously doubt the job situation was as bad as you described it for over two years
Get a fucking job, man
Srsly
Honestly, from what you've said it sounds like your wife is sacrificing a lot while you've fallen into this convenient spot that works great for you on paper. In reality however you're coming to the stark realization that even though something sounds great on paper matters are oftentimes more complicated. I know it sounds harsh but I think you need to grow up and take responsibility for yourself. Only after you do that will your wife's opinion turn around.
Sell your comics and toys! It's hard, but they are just taking up space at this point and if it's worth saving your marriage then they are worth selling.
Don't make this a long drawn out process either. 1 and done if you can manage it. Which means selling it all together...again...if possible.
Be prepared not to get what it's worth but you are showing your wife you're doing something.
Where is she going till 1 or 2 in the morning?
Why did she say it had nothing to do with you and then said it was ALL about you?
Do you love her?
Or do you love the life she is granting you?
I spent 2 months trying to understand the insanity of my ex-wife and the situation but at the end of the day, when I was doing everything I could to salvage things, nothing was good enough and none of it made sense.
Right now you need to get yourself prepared for the worst. Get your belongings together, save some cash and stay with friends/family in the meantime.
As for the "grow up and be responsible" advice, it sounds like you've already gone down that road and if your marriage didnt improve out of that then there is a lot more going on behind the scenes that you and the rest of us don't know about.
Anyways, you have my regards. Divorce isn't the end of the world. I'm a better guy and a happier person after it.
It's good that you are being honest, it helps us see what you're doing wrong. In this case, your pattern of scapegoating everything else so you don't have to take responsibility for being a bum is pretty obvious.
I know it sounds harsh, but if you can SEE how lazy you are and were, you can accept it and change it.
Your wife isn't even an issue anymore, this is all on you, because even if you guys split you STILL need to help yourself become stable in some fashion.
I just see so many familiar red flags. The whole "well, I have been looking for a job...it's just bad here...and I have no car, too!" and then "well I need a car so I don't have the energy to look for a job too." and then "my work history is bad, if I found a job here I'd just have to quit it!"
I mean, man, LOOK FOR A JOB. If you get one now, it will help you, and if you HAVE to quit and move I'm sure your bad job history will not be hurt more by you not mentioning that short new job on your resume.
AND look for a job back home at the SAME TIME. You have way more time and energy capable to spend on these things than you think. Use it and make your life better!
Commuting sucks, but that could at least give you guys some time to talk stuff out.
This is a great idea on many different levels.
As mentioned in another post above, multitasking is a very good thing. Plans and backup plans. Are you writing out 'Things to Do' lists? Because 'selling all your shit' is a thing that only takes a few minutes here and there, and comes with a lot of downtime. Pack your work day, even if your working from home (ie job hunting, salesmanship, organization). Put in a 9-5, and try to make it count. At the moment you're your own boss, so don't fuck him over, mkay?
If you aren't spending 40 hours a week job searching, you aren't doing enough. Why 40 Hours a week? Because thats the standard full time job work week. And finding work is a full-time job. If you need help with some job search specifics, Knock Em Dead by Martin Yate is an excellent no bullshit book to get you focused.
Just how much money do you think you can get from selling your stuff? And how much time per pay does that really take?